The Cinemar Home Theater Construction Thread - Page 48 - AVS Forum
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post #1411 of 3067 Old 03-06-2012, 08:48 AM - Thread Starter
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TMcG,

I'm no expert, but my thoughts are to use paint on everything. Because I'm using oak, maple, mdf and pine...staining the oak and maple will just make it challenging to match up. The black paint just seems much easier like you mentioned.

I've decided not to try to hide the wood grain.

In terms of finish on everything, do you guys think the Pearl is too shiny?

Larry,
Thanks for the info. Do you know if I should be using a special paint for the stair treads or do I just apply something over the paint to handle the foot traffic?
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post #1412 of 3067 Old 03-06-2012, 09:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcascio View Post

TMcG,

I'm no expert, but my thoughts are to use paint on everything. Because I'm using oak, maple, mdf and pine...staining the oak and maple will just make it challenging to match up. The black paint just seems much easier like you mentioned.

I've decided not to try to hide the wood grain.

In terms of finish on everything, do you guys think the Pearl is too shiny?

Larry,
Thanks for the info. Do you know if I should be using a special paint for the stair treads or do I just apply something over the paint to handle the foot traffic?

Mario,

Not sure which sheen you should go with, I'm also on the fence for that (I love planning months ahead of time)

I'll probably order a sample of the 3 lowest sheens (which would be Flat, Eggshell, and Pearl) and see what looks the best on some scrap wood with the projector on and off and see which gives me the best overall performance for aesthetics as well as not becoming annoying during bright scenes.

For the floor treads, I would recommend calling 1-888-236-6667 and ask for the product specialist department. The individuals in this department are extremely talented and will guide you to the best product
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post #1413 of 3067 Old 03-06-2012, 10:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the number Larry. I'll give them a buzz.

I picked up two 4x8 sheets of 1/8" hardboard. I plan on ripping them down to fit where the soffit can lights go. Then I'll need to cutout holes for the cans again. I'm hoping I can just poke a dremel through and follow the metal can housing itself.

Then I'll cut corners for the hardboard at 45's. This will allow me to tuck the GOM fabric underneath and create a nice hard seam where the 45's are joined in the corners.
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post #1414 of 3067 Old 03-06-2012, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcascio View Post

Paint questions.

So I need to dig back into the paint questions again.

I'm planning on doing Benjamin Moore F215 80 Flat black on the ceiling. But any recommendations for the trim, columns, maple cabinetry and oak steps/bullnose?

Does anyone know if BM has a matching black that isn't Flat? I'm assuming I'd want a satin on everything else?

Calling or emailing Benjamin Moore may get you some information from them on what would match up, or maybe even some mix formulas.

But even without that, anyone in the paint department that really knows their way around the paint mixing machine should be able to take the basic colorants from that Benjamin Moore F215 flat black formula, and turn it into a equivalent eggshell, pearl, satin, gloss, semi gloss finish or anything else you would like. It's pretty much just a matter of how much and what type of flattening or gloss agents are added to the basic color mix. Doing stuff like that is done all the time with black automotive paints for engine compartment restorations on collectable cars.
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post #1415 of 3067 Old 03-06-2012, 03:16 PM
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Mario I have to say (and I am sure I said it here before) but your theater is turning out to be one of the nicest, cleanest theaters I have seen on AVS and I have been around here a while. Great work thus far, you should be very proud.

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post #1416 of 3067 Old 03-06-2012, 03:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcascio View Post

Paint questions.

So I need to dig back into the paint questions again.

I'm planning on doing Benjamin Moore F215 80 Flat black on the ceiling. But any recommendations for the trim, columns, maple cabinetry and oak steps/bullnose?

I'm not familiar with BM paint so I have no specific recommendation. Whatever you use, though, it should be made for trim and/or doors, NOT walls. Wall paint never gets hard enough to use on furniture.

I have used this product and was happy with the result:



Link: http://www.sherwin-williams.com/home...oatings/paint/

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post #1417 of 3067 Old 03-06-2012, 05:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iusteve View Post

Mario I have to say (and I am sure I said it here before) but your theater is turning out to be one of the nicest, cleanest theaters I have seen on AVS and I have been around here a while. Great work thus far, you should be very proud.

Thanks a bunch. That's a really great compliment.
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post #1418 of 3067 Old 03-06-2012, 05:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by dwightp View Post


I'm not familiar with BM paint so I have no specific recommendation. Whatever you use, though, it should be made for trim and/or doors, NOT walls. Wall paint never gets hard enough to use on furniture.

I have used this product and was happy with the result:

Link: http://www.sherwin-williams.com/home...oatings/paint/

I'm glad you mentioned that there is specific paint for trim and doors.

Here's what BM recommended when I called them:
Oak Steps and bull nose
- Sand, prime with Fresh Start Primer 023 tinted black, then apply two coats of black tinted Fresh Floor and Patio Latex Enamel 122 Satin.

MDF and Maple
- Sand then apply two coats of tinted black Aura in egg shell finish

When I stopped in the Benjamin Moore supplier, he thought I might be able to use the Floor and Patio Latex Enamel on the MDF and Maple too to make sure they all end up with same color and finish. He was going to call BM in the morning to see if that would work. Anyone else have thoughts on that? You would think if it's durable enough to walk on, you could also apply it to the columns and cabinets.
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post #1419 of 3067 Old 03-06-2012, 06:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcascio View Post

I'm glad you mentioned that there is specific paint for trim and doors.

BMs most popular trim paints are Satin Impervo and Advance. However I am not in front of my product catelog and don't know if either come in a flat finish which I believe is important for a theater
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post #1420 of 3067 Old 03-08-2012, 06:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Not much excitement to report this week. I had to shut down cutting while I sprayed all of the remaining LED can lights with Flat Black.

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post #1421 of 3067 Old 03-08-2012, 07:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry M View Post

BMs most popular trim paints are Satin Impervo and Advance. However I am not in front of my product catelog and don't know if either come in a flat finish which I believe is important for a theater

Larry,

I'm in a bit of a pickle. The stairs need to be painted with the Floor and Patio which only comes in the Satin. This sits right next to the Maple on the stage. So I'm not sure how the satin and flat finish will look next to each other.

I'm also not sure I'd want to paint all the material with a flat finish just because if someone brushes up against it - I'm pretty sure you would be able to tell.

I've got a quart of BM matte black from the paint store on order that I'll test. I'll also test out the Floor and Patio along with the N215 80 Flat on some material to see how it looks.
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post #1422 of 3067 Old 03-08-2012, 07:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Questions about treating the MDF.

Is the sanding sealer only supposed to be used on the edges of the MDF or am I supposed to apply it to all exposed MDF surfaces?

Do I need a primer if applying the sanding sealer?
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post #1423 of 3067 Old 03-08-2012, 07:24 AM
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You can always dull the gloss of a finish by abrading it. You could paint everything with a satin sheen, for example, and if the reflections are too distracting, you could rub the offending surfaces with a Scotchbrite-type pad to cut back the sheen. It would be time consuming to do over a large area, but you could do it if you wanted to. This would let you paint most surfaces with a single product and selectively cut back the sheen only on the surfaces that produce bad reflections.

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post #1424 of 3067 Old 03-08-2012, 07:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcascio View Post

Questions about treating the MDF.

Is the sanding sealer only supposed to be used on the edges of the MDF or am I supposed to apply it to all exposed MDF surfaces?

Do I need a primer if applying the sanding sealer?

Primer will act as a sanding sealer. I don't know why you would need to use both.

The edges of the MDF are a different matter, though. I would probably apply 2-3 coats of sanding sealer to the edges, only, and then prime & paint.

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post #1425 of 3067 Old 03-08-2012, 04:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcascio View Post

Larry,

I'm in a bit of a pickle. The stairs need to be painted with the Floor and Patio which only comes in the Satin. This sits right next to the Maple on the stage. So I'm not sure how the satin and flat finish will look next to each other.

I'm also not sure I'd want to paint all the material with a flat finish just because if someone brushes up against it - I'm pretty sure you would be able to tell.

I've got a quart of BM matte black from the paint store on order that I'll test. I'll also test out the Floor and Patio along with the N215 80 Flat on some material to see how it looks.

I've been thinking about this; satin and flat aren't too far apart, plus being that the flat is on a vertical surface vs. the satin being on a horizontal surface it may not be too noticable. Best is what you're doing and testing small samples.

In my case I plan on carpet on my stage so that makes my situation easy.
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post #1426 of 3067 Old 03-09-2012, 07:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwightp View Post

You can always dull the gloss of a finish by abrading it. You could paint everything with a satin sheen, for example, and if the reflections are too distracting, you could rub the offending surfaces with a Scotchbrite-type pad to cut back the sheen. It would be time consuming to do over a large area, but you could do it if you wanted to. This would let you paint most surfaces with a single product and selectively cut back the sheen only on the surfaces that produce bad reflections.

Thanks for the tip. I'd like to avoid this though due to all the moulding. It would be a challenge to sand in all those nooks.
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post #1427 of 3067 Old 03-09-2012, 07:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwightp View Post

Primer will act as a sanding sealer. I don't know why you would need to use both.

The edges of the MDF are a different matter, though. I would probably apply 2-3 coats of sanding sealer to the edges, only, and then prime & paint.

Thanks for the info. Do I need a special MDF type of primer?
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post #1428 of 3067 Old 03-09-2012, 07:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry M View Post

I've been thinking about this; satin and flat aren't too far apart, plus being that the flat is on a vertical surface vs. the satin being on a horizontal surface it may not be too noticable. Best is what you're doing and testing small samples.

In my case I plan on carpet on my stage so that makes my situation easy.

That's a good point Larry. Being that they are on separate planes...I might be able to get away with it.

The paint store didn't have the Fresh Floor and Patio paint so I'm hoping it comes in today or Monday so I can do some testing.
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post #1429 of 3067 Old 03-09-2012, 07:23 AM - Thread Starter
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I scored one of my 1/8" hardboards down to size to fit the soffit. Then used a dremel to cutout the can light holes. I plan to attach the center area of each soffit, then back fill with the corner wedges that I can tuck the fabric underneath. Had to run out and get some more screws before I could proceed any further. I plan to screw up the hardboard first, then cut the can light holes. As long as that goes smoothly, I'll use liquid nails and rescrew it back in place.



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post #1430 of 3067 Old 03-09-2012, 07:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Does anyone have experience with positioning the GOM fabric around the can light cutout holes? Staples, Hot Glue, 3M Spray, Tuck, suggestions?
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post #1431 of 3067 Old 03-09-2012, 07:48 AM
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I would say cut the hole slightly bigger and tuck the GOM around and trim flush. You may want to check the fit of the trim before doing a bunch of holes.
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post #1432 of 3067 Old 03-09-2012, 08:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ktm250rider View Post

I would say cut the hole slightly bigger and tuck the GOM around and trim flush. You may want to check the fit of the trim before doing a bunch of holes.

The LED cans have these three really sharp metal pieces that keep it held up. I'll have to be reallly careful once the fabric goes up not to cut into it with the housing.

I think I'd feel a little better putting hot glue around the edges to keep them from fraying. I could probably use staples if I keep it tight to the trim.
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post #1433 of 3067 Old 03-09-2012, 08:30 AM
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I've seen reference to people using spray adhesive as well, but I'm not sure how successful it is. Hot melt glue may be a good solution, but having a cool fixture would be important there, I imagine.
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post #1434 of 3067 Old 03-10-2012, 08:00 AM
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Mario, the column and cabinet work looks fantastic, really top notch!!

I also used a 1/8 masonite covered with GOM as inserts on the bottom of my soffits.


Although I didnt cut out for lights I had cutouts for HVAC diffusers.
When the masonite inserts were ready, I cut the piece of GOM oversize, used thumb tacks to "lightly" stretch and hold the GOM on a piece of ply. After spraying the the GOM and the panel, I pressed the panel on the GOM.

Now with the GOM attached to the front of the panel and looking at the back of the panel, I Trimmed the GOM ~ 1" oversize around the panel, And cut an "X" in the diffuser opening, that let me fold the GOM around to the backside and attach using the 3M again.

To mount the panel, I applied thin beads of Construction adhesive around the back of the panel. Then used a couple of the "Helping hand" type jacks and 2x4s to distribute the force and attached the panel to the bottom of the soffit.

When trying to cut out the GOM for mounting my sconces, I used staples and had trouble with fraying if I got to close, fortunately my sconce mount was large enough to cover everything.

Dont know if you can get away with the extra thickness from wrapping the GOM around the back side, it will depend on how your trimming it out. But this worked well for me.

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post #1435 of 3067 Old 03-10-2012, 08:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KNKKNK View Post

Mario, the column and cabinet work looks fantastic, really top notch!!

I also used a 1/8 masonite covered with GOM as inserts on the bottom of my soffits.


Although I didnt cut out for lights I had cutouts for HVAC diffusers.
When the masonite inserts were ready, I cut the piece of GOM oversize, used thumb tacks to "lightly" stretch and hold the GOM on a piece of ply. After spraying the the GOM and the panel, I pressed the panel on the GOM.

Now with the GOM attached to the front of the panel and looking at the back of the panel, I Trimmed the GOM ~ 1" oversize around the panel, And cut an "X" in the diffuser opening, that let me fold the GOM around to the backside and attach using the 3M again.

To mount the panel, I applied thin beads of Construction adhesive around the back of the panel. Then used a couple of the "Helping hand" type jacks and 2x4s to distribute the force and attached the panel to the bottom of the soffit.

When trying to cut out the GOM for mounting my sconces, I used staples and had trouble with fraying if I got to close, fortunately my sconce mount was large enough to cover everything.

Dont know if you can get away with the extra thickness from wrapping the GOM around the back side, it will depend on how your trimming it out. But this worked well for me.

Wow - very impressive!

That's good to know that staples may not be the best option when trimming around outlets and sconces.

Thanks. I realized late yesterday that I could just lift the can housing and wrap it to the inside of the soffit similar to the way you did it right on your panel. The challenge I'm having is that my panels are over 8' (~12' long) so it's built in multiple pieces. So I can't just contruct it on the ground, wrap and then lift it into place. My initial thought was to put the 8' piece in the middle and then back fill the angled corners and then tuck the fabric underneath. After some rough testing, I think this is going to be a big challenge to get the fabric taught and wrinkle free all while doing it on the ceiling.

I guess I could have planned for breaking the soffit into 8 pieces instead of trying to do it in 4. Then just put a seam in the middle of each section. But my goal was for it to only have corner seams.

So I'm playing around with plan B this morning. Which is cutting an 1/8" slot to push the fabric up into the soffit. Then I can reach up there and pull it taught and staple. I've got one slot cut and it appears like it should work out. It should save me a bit of time over the 1/8" hardboard method although I was over a 1/4 of the way done. Worst case, with plan B, I can always wrap a 1.5" board with the fabric and put it into the corners to cover the seams. But I'm trying to avoid that as well.
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post #1436 of 3067 Old 03-11-2012, 07:41 AM - Thread Starter
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After scrapping the idea of using the 1/8" hardboard under the soffit, I was able to cut a 1/8" channel groove to push the fabric into and give me the clean lines I was after in the corners.

I used a dremel freehand and it worked out better than expected. I thought it was going to be very difficult to get a straight line.



And the end result should look similar to this rendering.
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post #1437 of 3067 Old 03-12-2012, 07:25 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm close to finishing all cuts for the lower 1/3 MDF wall.


I'm still trying to finalize how I'm going to access the patch panel. I'm thinking of just making a hinged door that opens. I'm just not sure if I want to make it blend in with the upper red fabric wall or make it look like one of the front cabinet doors. I may have to play around with it in 3D first.
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post #1438 of 3067 Old 03-12-2012, 07:25 AM - Thread Starter
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I have 14" of open depth below the patch panel. Should I just fill this with Insulation? If I have 3/4" MDF in front and then OC703 behind it, will it still act as a bass trap?

I know I've seen diagrams that require 1/4" panel, then a 1" air gap, then OC70X material. Not sure if the 3/4" MDF defeats the bass trapping.
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post #1439 of 3067 Old 03-12-2012, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcascio View Post

I have 14" of open depth below the patch panel. Should I just fill this with Insulation? If I have 3/4" MDF in front and then OC703 behind it, will it still act as a bass trap?

I know I've seen diagrams that require 1/4" panel, then a 1" air gap, then OC70X material. Not sure if the 3/4" MDF defeats the bass trapping.

If you seal the insulation behind MDF, the insulation won't provide any bass trapping. It's still a good idea to put insulation back there to prevent resonances.

If you want to use the volume for a bass trap, I believe you would need to cut an opening in the MDF through which the sound wave can enter the space and interact with the insulation. You could cover the opening with GOM. I think the opening should be as close as possible to a corner (wall-to-wall, wall-to-ceiling, wall-to-floor, etc.).

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post #1440 of 3067 Old 03-12-2012, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwightp View Post

If you seal the insulation behind MDF, the insulation won't provide any bass trapping. It's still a good idea to put insulation back there to prevent resonances.

If you want to use the volume for a bass trap, I believe you would need to cut an opening in the MDF through which the sound wave can enter the space and interact with the insulation. You could cover the opening with GOM. I think the opening should be as close as possible to a corner (wall-to-wall, wall-to-ceiling, wall-to-floor, etc.).

I've noticed a couple build threads recently where when constructing the riser, they use for instance 2x10 for the outside perimeter of the stage and 2x8 for the studs. Is this acting as a bass trap as well and where does the bass enter under this scenario?
Larry M is offline  
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