The Cinemar Home Theater Construction Thread - Page 70 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2071 of 3222 Old 07-16-2012, 05:05 PM
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Yes, makes sense. It has been about 8 years since my last house with my last theater, so my memory has faded a bit. So I looked up what I had purchased for my own theater that worked extremely well using a standard solid core door. I had three doors - one that led to an equipment area that had the automatic door bottom routered into the bottom of the door, a door that led into a mechanical area off the equipment room which housed a noisy furnace and forced-air fan for the hot water heater, and the door to the theater itself where I surface-mounted the automatic door bottom and used one of Zero International's thresholds. Here is a list from my exact invoice for what I purchased for the door to my theater:
  • Model 475 seals for the top and side jambs / door stop
  • Model 119W mounted to the door itself on the bottom and three pieces mounted to the jamb, just prior to the door seals at the midpoint of where the door will rest in its closed position
  • Model 564 Threshold
  • Model 367 Automatic door bottom, surface-mounted

Like your room, my door was mounted opposite the screen wall in about the middle of the room. When you had the theater at reference level it was always amazing to have such quiet disturbed by such a large amount of sound when I opened the door - almost like a light switch, to be honest.

But getting back to your original question - I couldn't find any pictures from my old theater where I took a close-up photo to see if "older" versions of this system had 90 degree or mitered corners. Obviously, you should butt the miters together so it is a complete frame. The 119W will also help significantly as a first line of defense against sound escaping. If your door can accommodate, the missing piece of your puzzle is the Model 564 Threshold where the door physically butts against the neoprene and then the surface-mounted automatic door bottom drops down on top of this threshold. This will seal your gap perfectly and complete the soundproofing system.

I have kept in touch with the folks that bought my house.....let me see if he can send a few quickie pictures of the door seals over using his iPhone which I can post here for everyone's edification.

One final note - you will not be able to realistically paint the 119W. It is brass in color and will endure a lot of frictional abuse as the door opens and closes each time, fyi. Any painted surface would start to rub off almost immediately.

This is probably not the answer you were hoping for (i.e. order more stuff), but it will work beautifully. Here is a link to a .pdf CAD drawing off their site: http://www.zerointernational.com/pdfmaker/pdfviewer.asp?referrer=search&page=0&part=564&instr=1&instrfile=27.pdf
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post #2072 of 3222 Old 07-16-2012, 07:30 PM
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Mario - I just received the pictures of the theater door at my last house. I need to open up a photobucket account to get them posted - I will do that tomorrow. What I will tell you now is the Model 475 seals I had on this door do not have the mitered ends like your seals do. So I installed the top seal first and then butted the two side seals against the top seal which moved both side seals down the 1/2" thickness of the top seal. So you must have Model 770 or 870 seals. Pics to follow. I hope this info helps for now.
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post #2073 of 3222 Old 07-16-2012, 07:41 PM
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OK, so I opened my photobucket account tonight. I have requested several additional pictures to show the threshold and the automatic door bottom mounting system. Maybe these other pics will come tonight, maybe tomorrow night. I will edit and post in this message when I receive them.

Hinge side door seal Model 475 and Model 119W
DSC07304.jpg

Model 475 top seal and hinge seal
DSC07306.jpg

Model 475 and Model 119W on Theater Door catch
DSC07305.jpg

Model 475 and Model 119W installed
DSC07303.jpg

Model 475 joints butted together . . . don't ask me what that white paint on the stain is all about
DSC07302.jpg

Model 475 and Model 119W on theater door jamb
DSC07308.jpg

Door closed hinge side
DSC07312.jpg

Door fully closed against threshold with automatic bottom dropped down
DSC07311.jpg

Door open hinge side
DSC07310.jpg

Door open latch side
DSC07309.jpg

Door closed latch side
DSC07313.jpg
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post #2074 of 3222 Old 07-17-2012, 08:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for all the great info and going out of your way to provide such detail.

The pics are different than mine. It's part #599 made by Reese Weatherstrips & Thresholds according to my PDF.

I may give the Soundproofing Company a call to see what they recommend.

I do have the Zero Intl automatic door bottom as well.
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post #2075 of 3222 Old 07-17-2012, 08:40 AM
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No problem - happy to help. Like I said, I think the Model 564 threshold, working in conjunction with your automatic door bottom, will cure all of your door seal problems but it will be interesting to hear what Ted comes up with.

Hopefully I will get the pictures of the door bottom and threshold tonight and I will modify my previous post with the update.
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post #2076 of 3222 Old 07-18-2012, 05:16 AM
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TMCG,

Did the door seals make a big difference in sound control through the door?
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post #2077 of 3222 Old 07-18-2012, 05:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry M View Post

TMCG,
Did the door seals make a big difference in sound control through the door?

Huge difference. In fact I had installed the more substantial seals first (the ones with the neoprene) and the sound suppression was very good. When I added the 119W (the "V"-shaped brass piece) it was even better.

Like I said above, when I got everything installed for the first time and cranked up the theater, I was really surprised with how quiet it was outside the room - even with just a standard pre-hung solid door. I had considered buying one of those specialized multi-layer 300 pound soundproof doors so loaded with Green Glue, pixie dust and unicorn blood that even the world's most sensitive measurement equipment couldn't tell if I was in the theater watching a Michael Bay explosion film at reference level or lying dead with the system off....but the cost was too prohibitive. I just spent my money making the tightest soundproofing I could with a standard solid door and was extremely happy with the result. You really had to stop and listen with your ear toward the door to really hear any of the low-end rumble which was pretty amazing.

Mario - I didn't get the additional pictures I was looking for last night. Hopefully I will get them in the next day or two and I will post above with my other pictures.
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post #2078 of 3222 Old 07-18-2012, 06:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMcG View Post

Huge difference. In fact I had installed the more substantial seals first (the ones with the neoprene) and the sound suppression was very good. When I added the 119W (the "V"-shaped brass piece) it was even better.
Like I said above, when I got everything installed for the first time and cranked up the theater, I was really surprised with how quiet it was outside the room - even with just a standard pre-hung solid door. I had considered buying one of those specialized multi-layer 300 pound soundproof doors so loaded with Green Glue, pixie dust and unicorn blood that even the world's most sensitive measurement equipment couldn't tell if I was in the theater watching a Michael Bay explosion film at reference level or lying dead with the system off....but the cost was too prohibitive. I just spent my money making the tightest soundproofing I could with a standard solid door and was extremely happy with the result. You really had to stop and listen with your ear toward the door to really hear any of the low-end rumble which was pretty amazing.
Mario - I didn't get the additional pictures I was looking for last night. Hopefully I will get them in the next day or two and I will post above with my other pictures.

No problem. Did the 119W require any modification to the door or jamb itself?

I left a voice mail with Ted and am awaiting his return call about installing the seals.
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post #2079 of 3222 Old 07-18-2012, 06:51 AM - Thread Starter
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I continued work on the upper side column fabric frames. Turns out I was one board short...it'd been quite some time since I figured out the materials...so I forgot I was supposed to use the scraps to cut the smaller 5.75" top/bottom pieces rather than use an 8' piece to make them. I'm hoping Menard's will have the same trim which I know they do, but hope that the profile will match identical to the one from the lumber yard...otherwise it's one more trip up to Milwaukee. frown.gif

I wanted to figure out a way to make the frames in two sections removable so I could have the option to play with the acoustic treatments in between the columns.

So I went old school and just predrilled a bunch of holes after tracing the moulding outline in position.
IMG_0446_small.jpg

Then I used some left over Kreg screws on the inside of the columns to attach the moulding in place.
IMG_0439_small.jpg

IMG_0441_small.jpg

Then I removed the frame and stapled the fabric and remounted the moulding frame. Now I can take them on/off fairly easily. On the plus side, there are no visible brad nail holes either. smile.gif
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post #2080 of 3222 Old 07-18-2012, 06:55 AM
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Good question. The only thing I can say is that when I added the 119W on all sides the door would shut without much effort, but it was incredibly tight. I didn't have to make any modifications on the top or bottom of the door but on the hinge side I shimmed out all the 3 hinges by inserting a piece of thin cardboard (such as from the back of a standard tablet) cut in the shape of the hinge. This gave the little extra touch of room that the door would close smoothly without binding or putting extra stress on the hinge side. I did have to take my sander with some 60 grit to the latch side of the door and make things a little looser - really a five minute job as even the saw kerf would have been way too much material to take off and still get a tight fit.

I would say that your experience may vary since your door's gaps might be different. When that 119W is compressed, it is very thin and will fit snugly against the door edge in a standard gap. The question is finding the balance between tight and tight enough which is not very difficult to accomplish.
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post #2081 of 3222 Old 07-19-2012, 04:18 AM
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Mario - Five new pictures added to post 2088 to show the automatic door bottom and the #564 threshold in both open and closed positions.

So like I said above, I think the missing piece to your puzzle is getting the #564 threshold so you have a perfect 360 degree seal and are not relying solely on the automatic door seal at the bottom of the door. You can see from the one picture how the threshold seal perfectly lines up with the side seals. The automatic seal then drops down on top of the threshold and the 119W mounted to the underside of the door itself is tight against the front of the threshold so it is as if the bottom of the door has a triple layer of soundproofing.

Let me know if you would like any more pictures or description as to what I did. Thanks.
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post #2082 of 3222 Old 07-20-2012, 06:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMcG View Post

Mario - Five new pictures added to post 2088 to show the automatic door bottom and the #564 threshold in both open and closed positions.
So like I said above, I think the missing piece to your puzzle is getting the #564 threshold so you have a perfect 360 degree seal and are not relying solely on the automatic door seal at the bottom of the door. You can see from the one picture how the threshold seal perfectly lines up with the side seals. The automatic seal then drops down on top of the threshold and the 119W mounted to the underside of the door itself is tight against the front of the threshold so it is as if the bottom of the door has a triple layer of soundproofing.
Let me know if you would like any more pictures or description as to what I did. Thanks.

Thanks for posting the updates.

I spoke with Jon at the Soundproofing Company. They are going to swap my door seals for one that can be cut to length which wIll eliminate the gap on the sides near the threshold. I'm still not sure how the ones I had could be used unless the door plus the clearance above and below was less than 80" tall. Either way, the guys at the Soundproofing Company took good care of me.
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post #2083 of 3222 Old 07-20-2012, 07:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Been a while since I posted some full room shots.

Here's with most of the side column upper frames in place.
IMG_0473_small.jpg

Instead of making the drive to Milwaukee for the one missing moulding, I decided to glue two pieces together to make the length I needed. By time I sand and paint it, I don't think anyone including myself will know it's there. So I was happy to save the trip.
IMG_0469_small.jpg

I finished terminating the cables in the patch panel.
IMG_0457_small.jpg

Then installed the frame and door that I built months ago. I decided to use four L-brackets to hold the fabric frame to the wall just in case I needed to ever remove it for some reason.
IMG_0459_small.jpg

IMG_0468_small.jpg

I added some more recycled denim into a frame.
IMG_0488_small.jpg

And then installed.
IMG_0497_small.jpg

IMG_0500_small.jpg

IMG_0508_small.jpg

The theater foyer and both doors got their final coat of paint thanks to my FIL.
IMG_0493_small.jpg

IMG_0494_small.jpg

IMG_0509_small.jpg
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post #2084 of 3222 Old 07-20-2012, 07:50 AM
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Love the pictures.

I must admit that when I first saw the renders I wasn't sure that I liked the black trim on black walls/columns, but in real life it looks damn sharp!
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post #2085 of 3222 Old 07-20-2012, 10:47 AM
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Mario, I just recently found this thread and started following it. Wow... I do have to say your room is looking amazing! Very impressed at your attention to all the details. I'm starting to finish my basement and slowly moving over to get to where I will be framing out my theater room. Your room is truly an inspiration and hope I can do part of what you have done. I've looked through the thread and maybe I have overlooked it but what kind of equipment (receiver/amps, speakers, projector, etc) do you have or plan to put in this room of complete awesomeness?
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post #2086 of 3222 Old 07-20-2012, 10:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Love the pictures.
I must admit that when I first saw the renders I wasn't sure that I liked the black trim on black walls/columns, but in real life it looks damn sharp!

Thanks nickbuol.

I'm glad you are liking it.
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post #2087 of 3222 Old 07-20-2012, 10:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by rmaddog View Post

Mario, I just recently found this thread and started following it. Wow... I do have to say your room is looking amazing! Very impressed at your attention to all the details. I'm starting to finish my basement and slowly moving over to get to where I will be framing out my theater room. Your room is truly an inspiration and hope I can do part of what you have done. I've looked through the thread and maybe I have overlooked it but what kind of equipment (receiver/amps, speakers, projector, etc) do you have or plan to put in this room of complete awesomeness?

Welcome aboard rmaddog and thanks for the kind words.

Good luck on your basement. I think I spent 8-12 months just prepping things for the basement before I could even get started but thankfully so far no regrets.

There hasn't been much discussion on the equipment in this thread yet. That will probably be coming soon though as I begin putting everything in place.
I do list all the currently planned equipment in the first post of this thread.
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post #2088 of 3222 Old 07-22-2012, 09:56 AM
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Doh, first post in the thread... I'm sure I saw that and just got caught up in reading all the other stuff and pics. Yeah, I've been looking and planning around for a couple months and my wife first said, do what you want but now looking at yours and several other examples, she is starting to say, "NO!" smile.gif Well looking great! Excited to see the equipment start to get placed in the room which looks to be happening 'soon'.
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post #2089 of 3222 Old 07-23-2012, 07:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmaddog View Post

Doh, first post in the thread... I'm sure I saw that and just got caught up in reading all the other stuff and pics. Yeah, I've been looking and planning around for a couple months and my wife first said, do what you want but now looking at yours and several other examples, she is starting to say, "NO!" smile.gif Well looking great! Excited to see the equipment start to get placed in the room which looks to be happening 'soon'.

Keep working on her...she'll eventually cave. wink.gif

I started installing speakers this past weekend.
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post #2090 of 3222 Old 07-23-2012, 07:10 AM
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Keep working on her...she'll eventually cave. wink.gif
I started installing speakers this past weekend.

any pics? been waiting to see this part of your build smile.gif
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post #2091 of 3222 Old 07-23-2012, 07:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Here's the weekend update. Lot's of progress.

I terminated most of the connections in the rack to the Onkyo receiver, but ran out of banana plugs. So I ordered a bunch more. I still need to unbox the Emotiva Amp and get that put in the rack though.

I noticed since adding some incandescent lights in the foyer and back of the room, the colors shifted a bit so forgive the pictures if they are a bit from the true colors, but they are still pretty close.
I finished cutting all of the denim and putting it behind all the fabric panels. I had just enough to cover the entire room. I ended up treating every panel at the moment until I can do some further testing.

I took down all of the plastic in the theater foyer and installed the foyer light that had been boxed up for the past year.
IMG_0548_small.jpg

IMG_0535_small.jpg

I cleaned up and wired the entry lights with some an Insteon switch and Keypad Linc. I plan to control the entire room on/off with the keypad including Movie Poster TV along with some of the LED/Black Lights and one touch mood lighting.
IMG_0556_small.jpg

Here are some random shots looking into the back of the room.
IMG_0538_small.jpg

IMG_0539_small.jpg

IMG_0540_small.jpg

IMG_0544_small.jpg

IMG_0566_small.jpg

Shot of the black sprayed thermostat.
IMG_0554_small.jpg


I sprayed three more LED can lights flat black and installed them in the front to wash the screen.
IMG_0563_small.jpg


With most lights turned off. I think it produces a nice uniform light, matches the others, plus only uses 30 watts. smile.gif
IMG_0564_small.jpg

I hung the projector and terminated two of the cat6 connections. I noticed that the part that mounts to the projector itself seems pretty movable, just wondering if it's supposed to be that way or if it should be completely locked and unable to move the projector in any direction. I failed to notice during my design that the mount contained two parts, so the projector dropped another 1.5" from the ceiling. I was able to lower the screen about 3/4" so it's still pretty close to lining up.
IMG_0562_small.jpg

IMG_0582_small.jpg

I installed all of the speakers around the room and the shelving. I had to rip and cut a few more black shelving. I also put adjustable shelves in the front of the room. I was happy that all of the wires/speakers worked after making the connections. I had one scare, where a speaker wasn't working but found the problem. The wires travel through the patch panel before it makes it's way to the rack, so you have to trace all the steps. Turned out to be a quick splice I made at the speaker itself.
IMG_0569_small.jpg

Here are the height speakers in the corner mounted as high as I could go behind the GOM fabric and pointed down at the primary listening position.
IMG_0573_small.jpg

These M&K S-150's are stand in's for the M&K S-5000's.
IMG_0580_small.jpg

You'll notice I ripped the black velvet from the top of the cabinet. I'm going to attempt to replace it with the light trapped flocking material. I'm hoping that is a bit more resilient. But on top of that, I think it more closely matches the color of the black on the wood...so I think it will blend better and even have better darkening than the velvet. I'm just nervous about working with a 12'6 sticker and bending it around the front without it sticking to itself.

I also hung the hangman cleats for the Seymour screen.
IMG_0581_small.jpg

I have some of the side mouldings removed so I could put in the fabric panels. Here are some overall room shots.
IMG_0559_small.jpg

IMG_0560_small.jpg

IMG_0570_small.jpg

IMG_0576_small.jpg

IMG_0577_small.jpg

IMG_0578_small.jpg

IMG_0584_small.jpg

Next steps are to rewrap top front cabinet. Test DBox platform. Install threshold when parts arrive.
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post #2092 of 3222 Old 07-23-2012, 08:12 AM
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Something you might try with the long "sticker"....

I dont' know how well the material woudl hold up if it got wet, you'd have to experiment. But when I've instlaled huge decals that are even worse to handle I was taught the way the sign people do it. They wet the surface with a little spray bottle of water with a tiny bit of soap in it. Then you lay the sticker down and squeege out the bubbles. The water surprisingly doesn't hurt the adhesive and you end up with a perfect layout and no wrinkles or bubbles.

You'd need the surface to be non porus, and of course the material would have to survive getting wet and being dried. WOudl be easy enough tto try on a tractive spot somewhere to see. I think velvet would survive, not sure about what you are about to use.
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post #2093 of 3222 Old 07-23-2012, 08:47 AM
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Simply amazing!

On your Insteon keypad linc. Do you have all your lights on individual Insteon dimmers and then control them using the keypad linc? This is what I am planning to do and just wondering if you did it the same way.
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post #2094 of 3222 Old 07-23-2012, 08:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Something you might try with the long "sticker"....
I dont' know how well the material woudl hold up if it got wet, you'd have to experiment. But when I've instlaled huge decals that are even worse to handle I was taught the way the sign people do it. They wet the surface with a little spray bottle of water with a tiny bit of soap in it. Then you lay the sticker down and squeege out the bubbles. The water surprisingly doesn't hurt the adhesive and you end up with a perfect layout and no wrinkles or bubbles.
You'd need the surface to be non porus, and of course the material would have to survive getting wet and being dried. WOudl be easy enough tto try on a tractive spot somewhere to see. I think velvet would survive, not sure about what you are about to use.

That's a great idea. I'll give it a test run with some left over scraps to see if the soap works.
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post #2095 of 3222 Old 07-23-2012, 08:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by vanice View Post

Simply amazing!
On your Insteon keypad linc. Do you have all your lights on individual Insteon dimmers and then control them using the keypad linc? This is what I am planning to do and just wondering if you did it the same way.

I have a total of 6 loads (Insteon Dimmers) in the theater and 1 in the foyer. The TV is also on a Insteon controlled outlet.
I'll be using Insteon Applicance Linc's for things like the Black Lights and Led lighting.

Sounds like you are doing the same.
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post #2096 of 3222 Old 07-23-2012, 10:31 AM
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Yes, I will have 5 lighting loads, four on their own dimmers in the electrical room, and the fifth on the keypad linc controlling the main recessed lighting. I will also have a controlled outlet for future star ceiling control. I thought about the appliance linc's for some of them but decided that I wanted physical control over them. Plan to use Houselinc (I think that's the name) software to run it all. My guess is this is where our methods will differ. Do you have any prior experience with Insteon dimmers? I'm a little worried about their reliability.

Edit: Does your Keypad Linc actually have lighting wired to it or is it just controlling the scenes?
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post #2097 of 3222 Old 07-23-2012, 12:48 PM
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The red fabric in the soffit really set your room off!!


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post #2098 of 3222 Old 07-23-2012, 01:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by vanice View Post

Yes, I will have 5 lighting loads, four on their own dimmers in the electrical room, and the fifth on the keypad linc controlling the main recessed lighting. I will also have a controlled outlet for future star ceiling control. I thought about the appliance linc's for some of them but decided that I wanted physical control over them. Plan to use Houselinc (I think that's the name) software to run it all. My guess is this is where our methods will differ. Do you have any prior experience with Insteon dimmers? I'm a little worried about their reliability.
Edit: Does your Keypad Linc actually have lighting wired to it or is it just controlling the scenes?

Hi Vanice,

My whole house has Insteon. It's gotten continually better over the years. I've rarely had issues with controlling lights from a user interface, but sometimes the status is not always correct due to noise.

The KeypadLInc is wired just like you would a single load light switch and actually controls the sconces. The other 7 buttons will be used to control scenes within the room.

I'm still using HouseLinc like you will, but I can't imagine using that to control turning the lights on/off. It's more for programming them.

For control, MainLobby will be used in Floorplan view to show me what lights are on/off (if I'm outside the room).
I'll probably be building a specific user interface screen modified for the theater to do some macros so I don't have to jump outside the remote control to manage the lighting.

In fact, I'll probably use an IR remote as well to send commands to Mainlobby to trigger the lights...since I usually prefer a tactile remote in dark rooms.

Lots of ways to control. I just added the lights in the theater to my floorplan.
theater_lighting_interface.jpg

One of the other things I want to do is figure out if I can make a rule to automatically start ramping lights up once the movie hits the credits. I think I can do this by subtracting one from the track count of each movie...then in MainLobby/MLServer build a rule that once it hits the total tracks less one, ramp up theater lights.
Should be a nifty effect. I'll have to build an interface with config options for all these different things so I can turn on/off these effects.
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post #2099 of 3222 Old 07-23-2012, 01:32 PM - Thread Starter
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The red fabric in the soffit really set your room off!!

Thanks. It definitely does bring some life to the ceiling.
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post #2100 of 3222 Old 07-23-2012, 01:54 PM
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Mario,

The room looks fantastic! It amazes me how closely your build matches your renders. You have done beautiful, consistent work.

Good luck with the DBox actuator. I hope it's fixed!

Maker of the finest saw dust since 1980, give or take

MY Custom AV Cabinet with DIY Pull-Out and Rotate Rack
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