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post #121 of 840 Old 01-17-2010, 09:32 AM
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Adam, you are not hanging around ... I guess the secret is working nights!

I noticed you have/had a Control4 setup. I was thinking of this and wonder what you think of it and what you automate?

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post #122 of 840 Old 01-17-2010, 10:26 AM - Thread Starter
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IMHO you can't beat it for the price. Yes it is more expensive than not having it obviously and it is more than trying a universal remote setup with ir repeaters but the ease of use and the guide with easy to use cover art is awesome. I have never owned a more expensive unit like Crestron but I love Conrol4. One remote to do anything you want. It controls my lighting, panamorph sled, and will control my HVAC in the theater. I will set it up so that when I hit one button it will slowly turn the lights up start up the HVAC to a desired range and start up all of my theater equipment. What I don't like is that you can't really make changes yourself so when you want to add stuff you need someone that can program it. Besides that its smooth sailing. My wife loves that she can use one easy to understand remote for everything in the whole house and its cheap. If you want some more detailed pics let me know. I am also getting a new control unit and the streamer as I am building a 20tb server to stream my movies and hopefully eliminate using disks. Also I will be selling my old control unit if anyone is interested. The new one apparently runs a bit faster and I found a great deal on it.

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post #123 of 840 Old 01-17-2010, 07:52 PM
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As far as the $5200 quote:
What's the price per sq/ft. sq/yd?
$5200 is expensive but it should relate to the price of the carpet.
Installation should not very much especially if you're not doing stairs, stage, etc.
Check out the Times Square collection.
It's a good combo of wearability and feel.
One thing to remember, in a theater room carpet that draws attention to itself is a waste, imo.
Everyone's taste and needs are different.
Of course you want something nice but in practice, most of time the lights are very low or off.

 

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post #124 of 840 Old 01-18-2010, 05:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Here's the breakdown for the carpet. It was just shy of $10 a square foot which brings it to about $4100. That means $2.60 a square foot for pad and install or over $23 a square yard. I got a quote for $10-12 depending on pad from another place. This carpet store is just crazy. I am a directbuy member and have found the same carpet for $37 a square yard. Now I just need to find someone to install it and find out how long it takes.

I have two more sound proofing questions that I still need clarified. Maybe Ted could step in or someone that has done this before. If you take a look at my pics you can see the HVAC vents that go to my upstairs living room run from front to back of my theater in metal ducts. I know I will replace these with flex piping that will help with the sound but I don't know if I should be isolating this any other way also since the living room feed vents are right there and basically a hole into the living room and there are 4 of them.

Secondly, I still am having trouble determining what is best for the load bearing wall. The suggested new layout shows that this wall will have sound able to get to both sides and a stagger studded wall was suggested. My thinking is that a stagger studded wall is used to not transfer sound to the oposite side of the wall in which both sides will have sound on them so that seems pointless. My sound isolation concern with this wall is that I reduce the sound transfer to the rest of the house and I cannot us DC04 clips since it is load bearing. Advice needed. Would whisperclips and rails be a better option and/or even necessary?

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post #125 of 840 Old 01-19-2010, 06:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Ordered my new control4 items. I got the new 1000v3 controller along with the media streamer and a speaker access point to add another zone to my house.

Also had the HVAC company out last night and they seem like they have some great ideas. Also had scheduled a guy to do the simple framing and possibly hang the drywall but he was a no show. I thought I might hire this stuff done so I can attempt to have the theater back in operation and somewhat presentable for Feb 22nd which my neice and nephew want to throw a bday party here.

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post #126 of 840 Old 01-19-2010, 08:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Has anyone tried to use anything besides insulation behind the drywall? Would memory foam work better/worse? And would it even be beneficial?

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post #127 of 840 Old 01-19-2010, 08:57 AM
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Use rigid poly, taped at the seams, 1" space, r13 in framing.

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post #128 of 840 Old 01-19-2010, 09:02 AM - Thread Starter
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What do you mean by rigid poly and would that go in first and then the insulation?

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post #129 of 840 Old 01-19-2010, 09:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adammb View Post

Has anyone tried to use anything besides insulation behind the drywall? Would memory foam work better/worse? And would it even be beneficial?

Distinctly worse than insulation.

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post #130 of 840 Old 01-19-2010, 09:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Welcome back Ted, Thanks for the advice. Have you read my question about my load bearing wall. Both sides will have sound on them since I am adding a hallway on the entrance to the theater and was thinking that the stagger stud would not help. It seems that stagger studded walls keep sound from going through them and not necessarily upwards or down the wall. This is what I am trying to reduce as much as possible. Any advice? If both sides are open to the sound there is no need to keep the sound from going through it as it is to keep it from transferring up. Also if I have a connected hallway is it also important to use the clips and rails on the ceiling in that room as well?

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post #131 of 840 Old 01-19-2010, 09:25 AM
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Quote:
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What do you mean by rigid poly and would that go in first and then the insulation?

Rigid extruded polystyrene.. the large 4x8 pink insulation board, glue it to the concrete walls (use the glue made for foam board)

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post #132 of 840 Old 01-19-2010, 09:30 AM - Thread Starter
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I would assume to do this before framing and them frame and insulate the walls mounted with DC04 clips. Would it be beneficial to mount this under the floor and in between the joists before insulation?

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post #133 of 840 Old 01-19-2010, 09:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adammb View Post

I would assume to do this before framing and them frame and insulate the walls mounted with DC04 clips. Would it be beneficial to mount this under the floor and in between the joists before insulation?

1. Glue foam board to wall.
2. Frame wall 1" off of foam board using clips
3. put r-13 in framing
4. dwall

Do not put foam board in ceiling.. it will hurt your sound efforts by reducing your airspace, use R-19 in ceiling.

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post #134 of 840 Old 01-19-2010, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adammb View Post

Welcome back Ted, Thanks for the advice. Have you read my question about my load bearing wall. Both sides will have sound on them since I am adding a hallway on the entrance to the theater and was thinking that the stagger stud would not help. It seems that stagger studded walls keep sound from going through them and not necessarily upwards or down the wall. This is what I am trying to reduce as much as possible. Any advice? If both sides are open to the sound there is no need to keep the sound from going through it as it is to keep it from transferring up. Also if I have a connected hallway is it also important to use the clips and rails on the ceiling in that room as well?

Where is the hallway wall in your last diagram? If the entire area is flooded with sound, no use having a staggered wall as you say. However that load-bearing wall will transmit sound up pretty effectively...

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post #135 of 840 Old 01-19-2010, 10:58 AM - Thread Starter
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In post #92 I drew a new diagram that shows a hallway added to the rear of the theater. The load bearing wall is the wall right behind the rear seating row. Right now it is where my double doors are but I am moving them back. Is the only practiacl way to eliminate the sound transmission up to add whisperclips and rails? It would be nice if there was an easier method. Maybe if I only added rails and clips to the front side of this wall? May be pointless. Also since I am wanting to reduce the transmission up is it important to add dd+gg to both sides and also the hallway?

I had also pondered to add a simple door from the hallway to the theater that swings both ways to knock out the majority of the sound. I am also going to add OC703 to the whole hallway to deaden it as much as possible.

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post #136 of 840 Old 01-19-2010, 11:04 AM
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If you isolate that back hallway, remove the double doors and replace with a single door and seal the door, you would want to decouple both sides of that load bearing wall. Could be clips + channel, or stagger both sides.

The absorptive treatments (OC703) will reduce reverberation but not increase isolation.

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post #137 of 840 Old 01-19-2010, 02:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Maybe I should just build two walls surrounding this wall? That outta do it. Humph Any experience with this? Maybe I'm trying to make this too hard. I think what you are saying is to keep the existing studs and add on seperate studs that would mount to both sides but not touching themselves. So the drywall would not touch the existing Bearing studs. It sucks because on the theater side of this wall is the HVAC ducts so it makes it harder than I thought it might.

I was hoping to use the double doors just to save some extra money. Any idea what a good solid door that is at least 36" wide?

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post #138 of 840 Old 01-19-2010, 02:13 PM
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You should use clips + channel if there's ductwork inside.

You can get a solid core interior door prehung for under $175. Works great.

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post #139 of 840 Old 01-19-2010, 02:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Post #81 shows the ductwork I am talking about. If I was to stagger this I would have to add the wall extensions below this duct and the staggered boards on that side would not mount to the top of the wall since the duct is in the way.

My concern about the rails and clips is because I am going to mount a large soffit on the back to cover these utilities and also to have a rope lighting ledge and lights in it. Should I be concerned or if I add whisperclips to every stud where that will mount to will I be ok since it will hold so much weight. If I am thinking right I would add clips to every stud on the ceiling and top of this wall so that the rail can hold the weight of this soffit. I am going to sketch out my soffit plans and maybe this will help.

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post #140 of 840 Old 01-19-2010, 03:06 PM
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You could simply clip+channel that wall, as well as the underside and vertical face of that soffit framing. Then continue with the ceiling. This yields solid weight-bearing capacity and decoupling. No worries about the weight of the soffit.

Per your question, the soffit framing would not be supported by the clips + channel. Rather the now-coupled soffit framing would support the clips + channel. Leave the framong in place? Or have I missed somethng?

You would use a standard clip pattern for double 5/8" drywall.

You would have to treat the complete hallway, including ceiling and behind the equipment rack. The second side of that bearing wall as well.

Single solid core door leading out of the room.

Overall this seems to be the simplest and most straightforward approach.

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post #141 of 840 Old 01-19-2010, 04:47 PM - Thread Starter
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With the soffit my plan was to attach the wood frame to the drywall on top of the rail going through to the rail beneath on both the ceiling and the wall and that would be the only support. I cannot afford the room to add clips and rails to the underside of the soffit framing. I was hoping to do a frameless soffit at the back to raise it as high as I can. I want to do something very similar to what Sandman had done with the exposed soffits for bass control as much as possible. Obviously I cannot do this around the HVAC but I plan to come out further and have an enclosure for the projector and also the bass absorption. If that makes sense. If I did frameless on this back part with mdf and drywall with gg would mounting clips at each joist be support enough to hold it up sufficiently?

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post #142 of 840 Old 01-19-2010, 06:30 PM - Thread Starter
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OK, Here is what I'm thinking. This will allow me to get the most headroom along with still achieving the important factor os the dual layers of materials with green glue in between. Does this make sense?



This is only for this area around the rear HVAC so the remainder of the room will be an open soffit with cotton batting installed in it.

Let me know what you think.

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post #143 of 840 Old 01-20-2010, 09:36 AM - Thread Starter
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What do you think Ted? Will this work?

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post #144 of 840 Old 01-20-2010, 10:34 AM
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Two choices:

Replace the existing soffit with a lower profile that hugs (not contacts) the duct. Apply clips + channel to this and go.

Have the soffit hanging on a dedicated clip + channel as you have wanted. The trick here is that if the soffit is wide it is also heavy, so will require more clips.

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post #145 of 840 Old 01-20-2010, 10:37 AM - Thread Starter
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How many clips are you thinking per yard if it is 3 feet deep and about 10" tall?

Does it make a difference to mount the wood on the outside of the drywall or should I mount it directly and then but the drywall up to it. I figured I would have less sound leakage if I mounted it on top of it.

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post #146 of 840 Old 01-20-2010, 11:11 AM
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Adam,
I think I did what you are proposing if I'm looking at your drawing correctly. At my wall, I had a 2x2 nailed to it (or screwed to your hat in your case), then horizontal 5/8" OSB and drywall layer ran over (just under the HVAC) to the vertical soffit frame, which was 5/8" OSB. The horizontal piece is mounted on TOP of the 2x2 at the wall. I put up the vertical soffit piece before ceiling drywall. It is secured to hat/clips with the clips every other joist or every 32".
Ceiling drywall was just butted against that and caulked.

The issue with this construction is that you will have the 2x2 along your wall exposed. I'm solving that by using crown molding to cover it.
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post #147 of 840 Old 01-20-2010, 11:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks fotto. That is almost exactly what I was thinking and I'm not worried about exposed wood. I was actually thinking that if I used a 1x2 or a 1x1 I could but the drywall up to it and it will be the same if not a bit shorter and easy to hide.

On a side note issue. I have always had issues with my furthest away upstairs bedroom staying about 10 degrees or so off the rest of the house. I was going to solve this problem by adding another zone and then a zone for the theater. Problem is whoever did the HVAC system seperated my house by sides rather than upstairs and downstairs so I would have to spens a few thousand to redo the ductwork which in the grand scheme of things seems like a waste of $$ I'll never get back.

What have others done to resove this? I need to figure something out very soon. I just had the idea to add a recirculation fan chamber for both the upstairs room and then one for the theater. Does this really work for comfort? Before teardown I had to leave the doors open if there were more than 2 people in the room due to heat. should I still duct in the HVAC and also do the re circulation duct also?

So many questions - so little time

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post #148 of 840 Old 01-20-2010, 03:58 PM
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I just exchange air with the rest of the basement, personally.

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post #149 of 840 Old 01-20-2010, 06:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Well, I think that that is finally determined. Anyone know the best fan option to use for the dead vent and where is the best place to buy them. On top of that what is the recommended size and placement for supply and return vents in a theater?

I think I have another helper lined up to help get me to my goal of being mostly finished and fully operational in one months time. Maybe thats crazy but I'm trying. Still have the carpet up in the air which concerns me since sometimes it takes over a month to get certain styles.

I've made the best list I can to make sure I order everything but now I have to determine what I have left off.

If you think of anything please let me know.

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post #150 of 840 Old 01-21-2010, 06:47 AM
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I like the Fantech FX6XL. That's the old model #. There are other fans that look similar and I have no reason to doubt that they work as well. I just have no personal experience with them is all. I have a lot of positive experience with the Fantech.

Generally a 6" supply and similar return. Many install two supplies and a single return.

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