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post #91 of 589 Old 03-11-2010, 08:49 PM
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Hey since you commented on my post I decided to come over here and check out your thread. I see you left or are leaving a decent size gap from the piping to your theater wall. Is this so you can easily walk back there and mess with the stuff if need be? It seems easier to do something like this then make and kind of false wall for access later.

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post #92 of 589 Old 03-11-2010, 09:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Limp Fox View Post

Hey since you commented on my post I decided to come over here and check out your thread. I see you left or are leaving a decent size gap from the piping to your theater wall. Is this so you can easily walk back there and mess with the stuff if need be? It seems easier to do something like this then make and kind of false wall for access later.

Judd

If you are talking about the egress access path that I have to sacrifice 3' also gain access to my sump pit, well, it was actually a design mistake, I decided to open the egress there and after the window opening was cut, I realized that that was a bad spot, wasted a lot of space that could have been used for equipment closet, and still be able to frame a small space for the sump pit. Since you are still in planing stage, come up with several different designs and exam what are the compromises and constraints for each design and choose one that works the best for your needs, don't make the mistake that I made
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post #93 of 589 Old 03-12-2010, 04:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Framing is in progress, I would say 80% done, just few areas left, here are some pictures:

Fireblocking, I use 1/2" drywall, the orange seal is Great Stuff fireblocking expansive foam seal, I cut 6" drywall strips and attached to the joist along the sill plates, the top plate of 2x4 stud wall will be under the drywall:

Another one:

Framed wall on the floor, I framed wall about 1/4" shorter than the height from the floor to fireblocking drywall strip so I can move the wall in easily:

Best $80 ever spend, never miss a fire:

Wall is up, you can see the top plate goes under the drywall strip with some gap:

Shim the top plate to get wall leveled and straight:

Read to fasten the bottom plate with Remset hammered gun:

Bottom plate fastened:

Top plate fastened to the joist through the fireblocking drywall strip:

This is the theater room back side staggered wall:

Theater room front side staggered wall:

This is the theater back wall:

Finally, the screen wall, you see, I have not mocked the screen with the blue tape yet:

Space under stair and entrance opening, not framed yet, haven't decide what to do with it yet, could be equipment closet, but that is too small for the server rack I got from craigslist:

RSIC DC04 clips along the return trunk:

Another view:

DC04 under steel IBeam, I attached a piece of 2x6x8, with liquid nail and 16D nails bended over to clip on the IBeam:

Decoupled screen wall with DC04 clips, I was able to attach DC04 clips directly to the joist for this wall:

Decoupled back wall, I have to attach DC04 clips to pre-installed blocking:

Framed bathroom and door rough opening:

Mechanical room door rough opening:

Looking into theater room from back side:

Looking into theater room from entrance, I haven't frame the door yet, I may frame the equipment closet outside the staggered side wall, undecided yet:

Future bar area, wife is against the bar, it would take up a good chunk of space:

Egress and sump pit access path, will not be finished, behind the screen wall, 3' wide by code:

Still need to frame a door for service panel access:

I am stuck here, can not decide what to do this section, the clearout sticks out 15", the pipe is out about 10", water meter is about 6" out:
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post #94 of 589 Old 03-12-2010, 04:10 PM - Thread Starter
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This is my services panel, 200amp, you can see, I have plenty slots left, so I originally thought to install a separate sub-panel, but I may not need to, what do you think?
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post #95 of 589 Old 03-12-2010, 07:42 PM
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You're a framing machine there Walkinator...looks great

IMHO, if you have the spaces available in your main panel I don't see any good reason to add a subpanel. As far as I know, the lack of spaces is the main reason to add one, and maybe subpanel location being another, although the cost of the higher amperage cable to connect the two will probably be higher than the individual 12/14ga runs just going to the main load center.
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post #96 of 589 Old 03-13-2010, 11:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fotto View Post

You're a framing machine there Walkinator...looks great

IMHO, if you have the spaces available in your main panel I don't see any good reason to add a subpanel. As far as I know, the lack of spaces is the main reason to add one, and maybe subpanel location being another, although the cost of the higher amperage cable to connect the two will probably be higher than the individual 12/14ga runs just going to the main load center.

Thanks Fotto. Yeah, I think I don't need subpanel, I originally planed to install a subpanel just for bringing wires to a centralized location in the basement so every circuit comes out from subpanel will be easily to wired.
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post #97 of 589 Old 03-13-2010, 11:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Another topic, just read a thread talking about some "speakerless" surround sounds by hiding transducers behind the drywall, very interesting reading and the debates are quite hot there, here is the thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1233469
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post #98 of 589 Old 03-14-2010, 09:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Well, I got a really scary near miss this time, we had two stormy days here with wind blowing at 45mp, down pour rain, so you guess, the power was gone last evening, and water just keep filling the sump pit and sewer pit at the volume like you turn on the tap to wash hand, I was really worried that my basement would be flooded this time since we didn't know how long the power will be restored, so I went down to the basement very 10 minutes to check the water level. Somehow, the water level is kept about 3" below the floor level and stays there, I think it might be that the water pressure in the sum pit reached a delicate balance. This morning, when I woke up, still no power, saw out side still raining heavily, I though, great, the basement must be flooded. Went down there, no flood, water level in the sump pit is still about the same level as last night. But before I went to bed last night, rain stopped, so I thought, if rain keeps coming down today, eventually the water pressure in the sump pit will not be enough to keep water from coming in, so I start calling PECO to find out how much longer they need to restore the power. While I was dialing the 800 number, the power came back, I immediately hear my sump and sewer pump on, phew, what a relief.

So, it got me thinking, I might need to buy a generator as backup power source, my basement floored once 5 years ago, it was a piece of wood chip got stuck in the sump pump and I didn't know and didn't check for few days. Since then, no flood, but with this situation, you got heavy rain and no power, well, disaster is waiting to happen. So this question is for those who own generator, what is the proper "size" or power rating the generator for residential use?
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post #99 of 589 Old 03-14-2010, 10:58 AM
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I live in CT and I got the same mess last night, (winds and heavy rain). If your spending this much on a dedicated theater room and a little worried about possable flooding from heavy rain, I think it would be a very wise investment to buy a battery backup for your sump-pump...

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post #100 of 589 Old 03-14-2010, 11:40 AM
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I'm in a similar situation where I need to find a backup solution to my sump pump before even beginning the theater. At first I was planning to go the backup battery route. But the more I thought about it, I'm thinking of just spending more to get more piece of mind. So I'm leaning towards something like a Generac 8kw natural gas house generator with auto-switch.

It seems these power outages strike at the most inconvenient times, usually after business hours and when everyone is sleeping.

After adding up the cost to buy a nicer battery backup sump and battery, my thoughts were that just buys me time. So if the backup kicked in, I'd still be running around to find a portable generator since you never know how long the battery backup will last or how long the power will go out. So add to that cost the expense of a decent portable generator.

With the whole house generator, that worry goes away. Plus you get the added bonus in my case, of still having the well water run (for flushing toilets), freezer, lights, garage door, etc.

Also, to save a few bucks, I was just going to originally get a all-in-one backup plus sump where they split off in to the same pipe. Not a good idea. Just this past week, my sump backed up because the grass had frozen where the sump pushes out the water. I went outside and it looked like there was a bear buried underneath the grass. I poked it with a stick and water came pouring out at a pretty fast rate like I just popped a balloon. So needless to say, I'll be having the second sump pump run through a completely separate pvc pipe to the outside about 15 ft from the house.

My main and only sump has stopped working twice this past week with all the melting snow. I had some expensive hardware sitting in the theater before the sump failed, but fortunately I was paying attention to how often the sump was running at the time and noticed it hadn't run for 5 hours straight. I had connected a sensor to my automation system to tell me how many times the sump goes off and at what time - which displays on all the touchscreens in the house. Which led me to go check on it. Although it didn't get to the point of flooding the theater before I got to it, it could have been a costly problem...and my theater isn't even finished/started.

It was good this happened before hand though, it's encouraged me to dig a little deeper into my pockets for piece of mind.
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post #101 of 589 Old 03-14-2010, 02:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Yup, I thought about the battery backed sump pump, however, I see two issues with my situation, one, how long the battery will last if you have couple of days of power outrage, it happened before to me. Second, when I put sewer pit in, I also broke the basement drain line under the concrete slab and tied it to the sewer well, so now the sewer pit acts like second sump pit, but the drain line between the two pit is not connected, which means I need two battery backed sump pumps. In addition, we had experienced power outrage in the hot summer quite few times in the past, won't be nice if I had a portable generator to power at least the refrigerators (not sure if it is powerful enough to power the air conditioner)? Something seriously to consider...
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post #102 of 589 Old 03-15-2010, 09:59 AM
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I am anxious to see your solution to the clean out and water meter. I have a similar situation that I'm trying to plan around, and I can't think of a great way to frame it in while still keeping easy access.
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post #103 of 589 Old 03-15-2010, 04:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bucks17 View Post

I am anxious to see your solution to the clean out and water meter. I have a similar situation that I'm trying to plan around, and I can't think of a great way to frame it in while still keeping easy access.

I am thinking of boxing in the pipe and clearout and making shelves as storage on top and bottom, I got some idea and is in the half way of doing it, will post picture after I am done.
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post #104 of 589 Old 03-15-2010, 05:13 PM
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This is the longest thread page ever! Took me forever to scroll down.

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post #105 of 589 Old 03-17-2010, 03:18 PM - Thread Starter
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I finally decide what to do with the main drain pipe and water meter sticking out of the wall, box them in instead of framing wall out so I can have some shelving spaces, may not worth the efforts, but anyhow, here are some of the framing pictures:

Beforeļ¼›


First, I framed a wall behind the pipe, since I will need to run a HVAC supply line here in a soffit, so the wall is shorter and is not fastened to the ceiling joists. To secure the top portion of the wall and make it standing up straight, I used Ramset to attach two pieces of 2x4 blockings to the foundation wall, then secure the wall to the blocking. You can also see a box is attached to the water meter as well:

Water meter box:

From another angle, the box is just a simple 2x4 frame:

Close up, I attached the box to the wall with 4 2x4s, initially I thought I'd use more, but 4 at the corners make it very secure and strong, so no need more:

Next, I framed box that will go around the drain pipe:

Outside rail is framed with 2x4s and inside rail is framed with 2x3s:

OK, now to attach the box around the pipe, I need frame two support legs:

Support legs moved in position and box is rested on top of the support legs to test the fit:

Everything seemed fine, so fastened the support legs to the concrete floor and attached the box to the support legs and the wall:

Step back and look at it again:

To finish it off, I framed a small box and put on top of the box at left side corner to close up the section and allow drywall to have something to attach:


That is all for now, HVAC soffit still need to be framed, but I will need to run the supply line first.
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post #106 of 589 Old 03-21-2010, 08:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Though the progress is slow, but I managed to run some HVAC supply pipes, here are some of the pictures.

This is right outside room, have to cut a 7" takeoff from main trunk, run 7" pipe across the room in the joist, then connect to a 7" round to oval 90 degree elbow, then connect to 7" oval wall stack pipe and finally, 12x6" register booster box:

Closeup the 90 degree elbow going through the fireblocking:


This one is the other side of the basement (not in the theater room), will build a soffit to box it in, still need couple of fittings which I can't find in HD or Lowes:

Same supply line:

Closeup, two 7" 90 degree fittings going through fireblocking:


This is for bathroom, had to cut a hole on side, use 6" collar takeoff and 90 degree fitting to 90 degree round to oval elbow, tie with 6" oval in wall stack:

Bathroom register booster box:


I got some fittings from a local HVAC supply store, price is way better than HD, but I do have couple of problems with their fittings, I got some 7"x5' round pipe, two of them no matter what I do, I can't get them snap in, so I have to return those, and typically, they open 8:30am to 12:00pm on Saturday only during the weekend, so it is difficult to find time to go there, but they do carry pretty much all kind of fittings you can imagine.

I still have to figure out how to run supply and return inside the theater room, and one return outside theater room, the problem is, I can't find an open joist for the return that I can run from inside theater room to outside theater room.
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post #107 of 589 Old 03-21-2010, 08:50 PM - Thread Starter
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My theater room, after finished, should be about 13.5'x19.5', in my plan submitted for permit, I only have one supply and one return, it that enough? Should I consider to run two supplies and two returns in the theater room? It is kind of challenging with one pair of supply and return since both side have HVAC trunk already, with two pairs, well, I just hope that I don't need to.
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post #108 of 589 Old 03-21-2010, 08:51 PM
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theWalkinator -- nice job with the framing. I'm curious what you are going to do to isolate that HVAC duct. Metal duct is the worst for conducting sound in and out of the theater. Any reason you didn't opt to use flex duct off the main branch?

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post #109 of 589 Old 03-21-2010, 09:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moggie View Post

theWalkinator -- nice job with the framing. I'm curious what you are going to do to isolate that HVAC duct. Metal duct is the worst for conducting sound in and out of the theater. Any reason you didn't opt to use flex duct off the main branch?

Moggie, the reason is that if I run the flex duct for this one, then I have to replace pretty much every single pipe off the main trunk, I think there are 5 or 6 pipes running off main trunk within the theater room parameter, otherwise, not much added benefit just running one flex duct. But I will make sure that all the duck pipe running across the theater room will be flex duct, hope it won't be too bad.

Actually, it is a good question, has any one replaced all metal pipes with flex duct off main trunk from the theater room?
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post #110 of 589 Old 03-21-2010, 10:34 PM - Thread Starter
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I thought I post something else interesting. It is tax time and my PC died on my few weeks ago, I don't know what happened, but when I turned it on the other day, there was nothing, absolutely nothing came on screen, no post, just blank screen. It was shut down normally prior night so I though battery went bad, replaced battery, still not working. So I thought either CPU or motherboard died. Well, it was an old AMD machine that I built in several years ago, MSI motherboard, AMD dual core athlon x2 3800+, was a nice machine back then but it is 2010 so I thought, it is probably time to upgrade it. So I went to Microcenter and got Gigabyte 785GMT-UD2H HDMI motherboard and AMD Phenom II x2 555 BE CPU and also picked up 4GB DDR3 memory. After I put everything together, funny, still nothing, no post, then I realized that it might be the PSU problem, since the with the old PSU, CPU fan is running, power light on so I never thought it was PSU. Anyway, went to Microcenter again and picked up a 500W PSU. Wala, machine started booting and after updated drivers for Win7, machine is running fine.

I read that AMD Phenom dual core processor can be unlocked to four core with some motherboard and mine is the one, so next, I set in BIOS ACC to hybrid and reboot the machine, very cool, now I see 4 cores, it tells that CPU is AMD Phenom IIx4 B55!

Old motherboard and CPU took off from the case:

New motherboard:

Motherboard out of box, it is microATX form:

I/O back plate:

New motherboard in:

AMD CPU retail box:

New CPU out of box, with stock heatsink:

New CPU installed:

Stock heatsink installed:

Corsair DDR PC1333 2GBx2 memory, from Amazon:

Unlocked, showing 4 cores:

CUP-Z also showing 4 cores:



Although this is my daily PC, but it actually is a very nice setup for HTPC if you like, the motherboard can unlock AMD 3 or 2 (only Phenom II black edition) cores to 4 cores, it also comes with one HDMI output, I have not got chance to test that out yet. Next, I may try to overclock it with this motherboard to set multiplier to 15 or something, but right now, it is very fast already, with my old machine, when I play 1080P MKV movie, it choked, with this one, very smooth. So far very happy with it.
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post #111 of 589 Old 03-22-2010, 05:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theWalkinator View Post

Moggie, the reason is that if I run the flex duct for this one, then I have to replace pretty much every single pipe off the main trunk, I think there are 5 or 6 pipes running off main trunk within the theater room parameter, otherwise, not much added benefit just running one flex duct. But I will make sure that all the duck pipe running across the theater room will be flex duct, hope it won't be too bad.

Actually, it is a good question, has any one replaced all metal pipes with flex duct off main trunk from the theater room?

I had three metal runs going across width of my HT (within joist cavity) that fed bedroom/bath on first floor above. I replaced all three with flex. If I had it to do over again, I would have left them rigid. Ted White said in another post that those would be ok to leave alone if you just stuff insulation around them and are doing clips/DD on your ceiling. The runs for your actual supply(s) and return(s) that feed your HT room are another story though and need dealt with. Those will be direct openings into your room where sound can propagate directly back into your trunk and the rest of the house. I ran only one supply and return into my HT, but wish I had ran two each. I think that the flex definitely cuts into CFM through it due to the ridges of the flex, and I don't think I have optimal airflow due to that, although it may improve a bit once the doors shut and is kind of it's "own zone". Time will tell.

BTW....HVAC work is a real "pain in the trunk" isn't it?
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post #112 of 589 Old 03-22-2010, 05:13 AM
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Use short sections of flex connecting the takeoffs to metal duct, if you need the flexibility. Connect the flex to the sheet metal with some zip ties. A couple of sheet metal screws so the zip ties can never slide off. Then silver tape.
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post #113 of 589 Old 03-22-2010, 10:32 AM
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You might want to rethink your HVAC termination if you care about sound isolation. Check out what Ted White said in this thread with similar metal ducts.

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post #114 of 589 Old 03-22-2010, 11:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fotto View Post

I had three metal runs going across width of my HT (within joist cavity) that fed bedroom/bath on first floor above. I replaced all three with flex. If I had it to do over again, I would have left them rigid. Ted White said in another post that those would be ok to leave alone if you just stuff insulation around them and are doing clips/DD on your ceiling. The runs for your actual supply(s) and return(s) that feed your HT room are another story though and need dealt with. Those will be direct openings into your room where sound can propagate directly back into your trunk and the rest of the house. I ran only one supply and return into my HT, but wish I had ran two each. I think that the flex definitely cuts into CFM through it due to the ridges of the flex, and I don't think I have optimal airflow due to that, although it may improve a bit once the doors shut and is kind of it's "own zone". Time will tell.

BTW....HVAC work is a real "pain in the trunk" isn't it?

Good point fotto, I am thinking the same, the rigid metal pipes off the main trunk are feeding upstairs, some to first floor and some to second floor, so I am afraid of cutting air flow by replacing with flex duct. On the other hand, I will definitely use flex duct for the supply and return feeding the theater room and I also have replaced one supply and one return running cross theater room with flex duct. I realize that HVAC could be the weakest link in my situation, so I will try to insulate around the duct takeoff area as well and hope it won't be too bad because I will do DD+GG.
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post #115 of 589 Old 03-22-2010, 11:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moggie View Post

You might want to rethink your HVAC termination if you care about sound isolation. Check out what Ted White said in this thread with similar metal ducts.

Yes, Moggie, you make me think again since I will do decoupled wall, staggered wall, DD+GG on wall and on ceiling, so, I don't want to waste money and time doing all that while HVAC duct work ruining the effort. I care more sound out than noise in because of wife and kid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedd View Post

Use short sections of flex connecting the takeoffs to metal duct, if you need the flexibility. Connect the flex to the sheet metal with some zip ties. A couple of sheet metal screws so the zip ties can never slide off. Then silver tape.

Tedd, I like your idea, I think this is probably a compromise between sound isolation and maximize the airflow and I may do that after mechanical inspection.
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post #116 of 589 Old 03-22-2010, 11:39 PM - Thread Starter
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I have been reading many build threads and see most mount their projectosr to the ceiling while few made a hash box in the back soffit for the projector, I plan to go latter route. I know the placement of projector is related to the throw distance of the projector, but I am worried that mounting on the ceiling will bump head quite easily (low ceiling, on riser). So, my question is, why did not most people opt for the platform route if the distance is around 15~17'ish between the projector lens and screen since most of the projector now days are able to throw that distance. And from cosmetic point of view, won't it be better to hide your project in the back soffit unless you don't have the back soffit? I have not decided what projector to buy yet. I take BIG's advice that the projector is the last equipment to buy but since I am framing, I will need your opinions to help me to decide where to mount or put my future projector.
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post #117 of 589 Old 03-23-2010, 09:42 AM
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Hey,
Nice build you have going here. My basement is very similar to yours. I'll be following your build to see how you handle some of the situations I'm sure to be faced with.

What did you end up deciding to do for your sump backup? Did you ever consider a water powered back up pump? With these you won't have to worry about power, pump or battery failures. If you have water pressure then you have peace of mind. I added one of these to my basement. The one I'm using pumps about 12 gal/minute and I was able to install inline with my existing sump plumbing. It will kick on when a second float valve (higher than the regular float valve) is activated. The thing works really well and has an alarm and all the accessories. Heck, for under $300 and an afternoon to install it I now have peace of mind.

Here are some pictures of the pump:




LL
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post #118 of 589 Old 03-23-2010, 09:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks Barlav, my neighbor also recommended water powered sump backup pump and I think that is what I will do. How do you calculate what capacity of the pump?
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post #119 of 589 Old 03-24-2010, 03:29 AM
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The maker of the pump I bought had this for calculating capacity:

"As an indication of the minimal pump capacity needed, calculate the volume of water based on the volume of the sump insert. On a rainy day, insert a yard stick into the sump to the low water level. Then, read how many inches the water rises in one minute.



Example: An 18" sump with a water rise of 6" per minute represents a flow of 420 US gallons per hour.

However, because the sump insert allows ground water to gush in from footing drains and the surrounding gravel bed, the pump has to remove much more water in each cycle than just the volume of the sump insert. During a really heavy storm, the water inflow will be higher. Therefore, add at least 50 percent to estimate the needed capacity of the backup sump pump.

Then, you have to measure the needed lift - how high has the pump deliver the water from the bottom of the sump pit. A pump can remove much more water at a 5-ft "head pressure" than if has to pump 10 ft. high. Add an extra foot for each elbow."
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post #120 of 589 Old 03-25-2010, 07:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks barlav, that's really helpful. One related question, what is the size of the supply water pipe, like 1/2", 3/4" or 1"?
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