Plumbing Soundproofing Question - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 23 Old 01-27-2010, 04:20 PM - Thread Starter
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So I've built the other 3 walls of my room by room in room methodologies and now comes the last and most difficult (BTW these photos dont show the new walls). I've figured out how to get around these pipes so that's not a problem.

They're really loud when the ensuite above is used.

Question do I need to insulate them in anything?

Or by building around them (no flanking points) is that good enough? By way of information, they'll have 45mm thick beams covering them on the theatre side and obviously nothing on the other.




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post #2 of 23 Old 01-27-2010, 04:42 PM
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Well, changing them out for a heavier pipe like cast iron would be the dream solution, but I am pretty sure that is not an option.

Barring that, the next best thing would be to add mass to the piping. There have been a couple of threads from people on how they did this. Some people have used some sort of asphalt roll-roofing. Other people have used Dynamat or Dynamat-type materials to wrap the pipe.

Try searching the forum for "dynamat", it should pick up as few threads about it.

Good luck! Too bad that brick had to be covered, the room looks cool!
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post #3 of 23 Old 01-27-2010, 04:45 PM
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post #4 of 23 Old 01-27-2010, 04:58 PM - Thread Starter
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NJ - that is pretty much what I'd planned, well except for the insulation as that takes up too much room....

MrTim - thanks for that I'll look into it. Makes sense, albeit possibly difficult.

Thinking about it, changing the pipe to something heavier might be an option, wouldn't be hard....messy though

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post #5 of 23 Old 01-28-2010, 07:29 AM
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Elill, you'll need the insulation in any cavity. Mass + absorption.

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post #6 of 23 Old 01-28-2010, 08:48 AM
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Wrapping the pipe in acoustical pipe wrap would be a lot easier than replacing it with iron pipe. You can see in my build thread, I had a pipe behind my screen wall that I wrapped with this stuff, purchased from the Soundproofing company.

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post #7 of 23 Old 01-28-2010, 08:56 AM
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How did that work out for you?

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post #8 of 23 Old 01-28-2010, 10:15 AM
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Here is my data point. I have a bathroom above my theater. I specified all cast iron drain pipes, double drywall with green glue, and fiberglass insulation. Just sitting in the quiet theater you can still hear the toilet flush. It's quiet but not silent.

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post #9 of 23 Old 01-28-2010, 10:27 AM
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Curious, did you decouple the drywall from the impact vibration in the joists?

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post #10 of 23 Old 01-28-2010, 01:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok So I'll look into some sort of mass loaded vinyl perhaps and a highly dense insulation? is 1inch/25mm enough?

Problem is, putting insulation on the bottom of the pipe bites into my soffit size, which will consequently make the room's second door smaller. I'm going to have to duck as it is.....

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post #11 of 23 Old 01-28-2010, 01:23 PM
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You never, ever want dense insulation within a closed air space.

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post #12 of 23 Old 01-28-2010, 04:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Riteo, thanks Ted.

...Hmm off to find a local supplier of a solution.....more fun and games

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post #13 of 23 Old 01-28-2010, 04:58 PM
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Cast iron and a repipe with thought process as to how water is going to fall in those pipes is the BEST solution.

The pipe he has here is a thin gauge compared to what we commonly use in the USA, which is even louder then what most of us are accustomed to. As much as I hate recomending CI pipe for anything it would cut your sound level by a HUGE margin. Leaving the biggest noise producer being the splashing water from under the concrete slab area.
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post #14 of 23 Old 01-28-2010, 05:14 PM - Thread Starter
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That sounds awefully expensive....I might try some lagging first....the house has 2 other bathrooms, perhaps a ban during theatre hours would be simplest

Appreciate the help/suggestions

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post #15 of 23 Old 01-28-2010, 05:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Intricate1 View Post

Cast iron and a repipe with thought process as to how water is going to fall in those pipes is the BEST solution.

Best Answer. As well as minimizing contact of pipe with drywall and framing.

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post #16 of 23 Old 01-29-2010, 04:49 AM
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Is there anything you can put between the framing and the piping? For instance, for hot water pipes, they sell mickey mouse ear supports that can be placed between the studs/joists and the piping. These help tremendously.

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post #17 of 23 Old 01-29-2010, 09:26 AM
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Bob, weren't you going to give us a pic of the mouse ears?

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post #18 of 23 Old 01-29-2010, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ctviggen View Post

Is there anything you can put between the framing and the piping? For instance, for hot water pipes, they sell mickey mouse ear supports that can be placed between the studs/joists and the piping. These help tremendously.

The insulators you are talking about are meant to reduce sound transmission between the supply piping and the framing members. When supply piping is attached directly to joists it transfers vibration to the framing members turning said framing into one big speaker.

His issue as far as I can see is mostly because of the way the piping was run, water is splashing with force into those pipes when they drain. Adding into the fact they are using a low density thin plastic pipe he is stuck in a pretty much worst case scenario.

And he is likely correct paying a pro to rework with CI is going to cost him a good chunk of change. No idea what it would cost in Australia. Here in Middle tn USA I would likely charge him $800-900 bucks to make it quiet.
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post #19 of 23 Old 01-29-2010, 02:07 PM - Thread Starter
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The cast iron pipe itself isn't that expensive - about $100 for 3m.

I've contacted a plumber to see what it'll cost to replace. I think it'll be worth the extra coin....unless he comes back at $100 an hour and 10hours work..

Just to clarify a point, there will be no contact between the pipes and the room in room structure of the theatre. I've devised a way around this. I haven't drawn it in sketchup yet but basically there will be a beam running on 90x90 posts which will sit inside the line of the wall. These will likely become columns...sorry that doesn't explain it very well.

Try again.

1. There will be 3 stud walls sitting in between the engaged brick peirs.
2. These will be connected by narrow (350mm x 2400mm x 19mm) strips of ply
3. Attached to the ply will be the 90x90 posts
4. The beam will sit on top of the posts and the studd walls (with rebates cut for the sections of the engaged peirs)
5. Sitting on top of that beam will be another beam at right angles that goes up round the pipe
6. The new ceiling joists will sit on this new beam. Basically the posts will support a beam that the new joists will sit on - as if I was building a very heigh (2400mm) deck

I'll them insulate the stud sections, put more ply in, then GG then DD. I'll probably DD and GG around the posts as well. My rear speakers and treaments will sit within the sectional studd walls and I'll cover that section in fabric frames and make the post section a column or feature (timbers, lights something)

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post #20 of 23 Old 01-29-2010, 02:33 PM
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[quote]Ok So I'll look into some sort of mass loaded vinyl perhaps [/quote[
Nope. Not appropriate for this kind of application. You want a damping agent that will physically adhere to the PVC pipe.

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post #21 of 23 Old 01-29-2010, 03:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Erskine View Post

Nope. Not appropriate for this kind of application. You want a damping agent that will physically adhere to the PVC pipe.


What about dynamat supreme?
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post #22 of 23 Old 01-29-2010, 04:17 PM - Thread Starter
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I'll hopefully get the cast iron replacement, if that is still too loud there is a 25mm lagging product that looks good, you wrap it around the pipe and seal it off with aluminium tape.

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post #23 of 23 Old 01-29-2010, 06:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post

What about dynamat supreme?

Any Dynamat is overpriced, but generally stuff with butyl instead of asphalt is better for adhesion and very high or low temps. Check out www.secondskinaudio.com and www.raamaudio.com. They also sell closed-cell foam there (same as linacoustic?) That stuff would stick to the pipe. Mass-loaded vinyl could be attached with spray adhesive, to the pipe or the damping material.
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