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post #31 of 58 Old 03-22-2010, 03:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew_V View Post

Well, I discussed the soundproofing with my wife before I started the project and she said didn't care if she could hear the HT all over the house!

So when you are watching a movie and she says "you better turn it down or you will wake the kids" you need to remind her of those words.

use two layers of 5/8
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post #32 of 58 Old 03-22-2010, 04:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Will I be wasting my time installing DD/GG if I'm not decoupling the ceiling? Also, what about the flanking noise paths?

I just don't want to go through the expense and effort of hauling 40+ sheets of drywall into the basement just so the noises are a little bit softer inside the room. I'd better be able to hear a pin drop in there with the vacuum cleaner running right above me.

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post #33 of 58 Old 03-22-2010, 04:42 PM
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Impend the photos in your thread. With so many active threads to monitor asking people to have to open up multiple windows to quickly look at photos may not seem like a bid deal, but it's too easy for people not to bother. At least that is the way with me. Not trying to be unhelpful just don't have the time for the extra steps given the zillion other threads that pop up here.

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post #34 of 58 Old 03-23-2010, 03:11 PM - Thread Starter
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I think you're right. For some reason, people like to see the pictures, they don't seem to want to click on them, though. Not sure why.


Anyways, I think that with the break in the ceiling due to the soffit, so that I'd only be able to really decouple/DD 50% of the ceiling anyways, it's probably not worth it. The reason I don't think I can do DD on the soffit is that I'm not sure the 1x3's underneath the HVAC duct can handle the weight. I'm nearly 100% confident that it can handle one layer, but maybe not two.


And I do have another question: would adding an additional layer of drywall on the ADJOINING room have the same effect as having it inside the HT room? I do have the walls decoupled via staggered stud arrangement. But can I just add drywall to the OUTSIDE wall of the room with the same effect? The only thing I'm concerned about is flanking noise around the top plates and back down THROUGH the staggered stud walls.

Otherwise I think I'll stick with the single layer of drywall and call it a day. At least on the ceiling. The side walls I might throw another layer on, as long as I can do it on the outside of the walls.

--Drew


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post #35 of 58 Old 03-24-2010, 04:38 AM
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I sounds like you understand the issues pertaining to flanking. Trying to keep the noise out in your theater by treating another rooms walls is a tough prospect.

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post #36 of 58 Old 03-24-2010, 05:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew_V View Post

So I posted pictures and nobody has any suggestions?

Honestly, people dont like having to click on links to pictures. Having them directly embedded is much nicer and will probably generate more response. When I have to click and open a new page to look at a picture it better be really special to get me to look through the whole set. I dont think any question you ask is too difficult for this bunch, but insulting folks certainly wont help.
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post #37 of 58 Old 03-24-2010, 05:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew_V View Post

I think you're right. For some reason, people like to see the pictures, they don't seem to want to click on them, though. Not sure why.

for me it is because it is extra steps that shouldnt be needed. photobucket is free and easy, if a person is not willing to go through the effort to upload some pictures so they can embed images, why should I go through the effort of clicking 10 pictures open window look close, next. really it takes a lot of time when you are trying to quickly look through things.

I am not hammering on you, so please dont take it the wrong way, I just want to get the point across that embedded pictures will go a long way and I really think you will get more help and a better response going that route.
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post #38 of 58 Old 03-24-2010, 05:21 AM
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I'm a big photobucket embedder. The one downer is when someone embeds their pictures then abandons their account the pictures will eventually get deleted. At photobucket if you don't access your account or update it in some way after a certain period of time they go away. You do get a notice. If you pull up some old threads often some of the contributers pictures are missing.
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post #39 of 58 Old 03-24-2010, 05:59 AM - Thread Starter
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It's funny that I get more responses for why people don't want to click on the pictures than I do for the actual questions!


I'll try to work on embedding some pictures tonight. But I'm really thinking that I can't do too much to improve the ceiling anyways because of the 50/50 split with the soffit. I think I'd be spending a lot of time and money for only a small benefit. It's one of those "If I could do it over, I'd...." sort of things where I'd probably end up spending another $2-3k and move all the ductwork, decouple the walls, and hat-channel the entire ceiling.

But not in this house, for this build. It's just not worth it. Maybe when I retire I'll build a new house with a gorgeous HT room, who knows.

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post #40 of 58 Old 03-24-2010, 06:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Well, after much deliberation and hemming and hawing, I've decided to go with some RSIC-V clips, hat channel, and one layer of 5/8" drywall., for a total of around $100 extra expense. I think anything more would be a waste of time and money, considering that I cannot treat the soffit properly anyway.

With all the flanking noise leakage paths, the 50% of the ceiling that's untreated and the bare HVAC ducts inside the soffit, I think spending all the extra effort to add more drywall, GG, better RSIC clips, etc. would be of such limited value that I'm deciding against it.

I know I sound like I'm just rationalizing, but I'm really not. I've given this a lot of thought and compared the expense of doing it "properly" vs. "half-assed" and I just don't think it'll be worth it. If I *did* spend all the money and time to do it "properly" and ended up still hearing lots of external noises from upstairs, I would just be mad at myself for not having the foresight to understand the limitations of the room. So I'm trying to play it smart, but who knows, my plan might backfire.

--Drew


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post #41 of 58 Old 03-24-2010, 08:16 PM
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I think that plan sounds good.

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post #42 of 58 Old 03-25-2010, 05:47 AM
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That's a reasonable course of action. You'll have decoupling in the system, and can always add later if you like. I think your logic is sound (pun)

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post #43 of 58 Old 03-25-2010, 12:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks Ted. I was hoping someone with some experience would add their comments.


If I understand the clip and channel spacing requirements correctly, for an 8-foot wide x 20 foot long room I would need one row of clips along each wall and one in the center (approx. 48-inch spacing between rows of clips) with 10 clips per row (24 inch spacing) and ten 8-foot hat channel pieces.

The 48-inch spacing seems pretty wide to me, but I guess it must be acceptable taking into account the strength and rigidity of the hat channel. And I'm assuming I won't get any drywall sagging in the 24x48 inch gaps, right?

Never having done this before, and never having seen any of this stuff in the local hardware stores, I'm full of questions...

--Drew


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post #44 of 58 Old 03-25-2010, 01:03 PM
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It's a solid system. No sags. 24 x 48 spacing will support double 5/8", assuming you get the proper Drywall Furring Channel: http://www.soundproofingcompany.com/...t_sound_clips/

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post #45 of 58 Old 07-06-2010, 06:04 AM
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Ted. I too am trying to decide on 1/2 or 5/8. 5/8 makes more sense logically because it is a 1/4 inch increase in mass.

However, on the green glue lab tests on your website, the setup with dual 5/8 on one side and dual 1/2 on the other has an stc of 56 (ol-050414) while dual 5/8 on both sides is only 55 (ol-051049). Can you explain why that is and if in fact there is no real difference between 1/2 inch and 5/8?

Also, do you know the impact of 16 inch oc vs 24, and r-19 in ceilings vs r-13?

Thanks Ted,

Mike
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post #46 of 58 Old 07-06-2010, 06:59 AM
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Hi Mike,

Mass is a key component of any sound isolating environment. The more the merrier. This is especially true in the low frequencies that STC does not measure. It is becoming more and more common for theaters to have three sheets of 5/8" for example. If you want some hope to reduce the subwoofer bass from leaving the theater room, you'll want as much mass as possible, in addition to decoupled framing, absorption (insulation) and damping.

16" vs. 24" is only really relevant when discussing single stud walls. 24" allows more flex and less contact area, and therefore is more isolating. If the framing is decoupled via double stud framing or clips & channel, then the stud spacing is irrelevant. If you're decoupling via staggered framing, then a wider 24" stud spacing is advised.

R19 is better in a joist than R13, but from a practical perspective, more than R19 isn't going to get you much more isolation.

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post #47 of 58 Old 07-06-2010, 12:15 PM
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please excuse the newb question, but what is DD/GG im assuming GG is green glue...but DD? double drywall? something about decoupling? Just curious.

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post #48 of 58 Old 07-06-2010, 12:17 PM
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GG = Green Glue
DD = Double Drywall

Decoupling comes from double stud framing, staggered stud, or resilient clips and channel typically

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post #49 of 58 Old 07-06-2010, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted White View Post

GG = Green Glue
DD = Double Drywall

Decoupling comes from double stud framing, staggered stud, or resilient clips and channel typically

Thank you. I was fairly certain thats what it was, but was getting tired of sifting through sound treatment threads for something i was sure was a very simple answer.

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post #50 of 58 Old 07-20-2013, 09:15 AM
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Ok, I just found this thread and joined AVS Forum to ask for advice.

Proposed HT Size at "finished" dimensions:

L = 23'
W = 14'
H = 7.5'
  • The Front (Screen) Wall and the Left Side Wall of the HT are adjacent to the poured concrete foundation.

I am going to build a HT and "planning" and budgeting right now. So, regarding sound absorption/isolation/proofing/etc... what are your thoughts about the following, keep in mind I'm looking for the best bang for the buck:

Metal Studs 2x4 at 25 gage
Spacing: What design should I go with? Thinking of single layer not staggered. Should I go on centers at 16" or 24" spacing...?
Roxul Fire and Sound 3" insulation. I can purchase 24" wide on a "deal" that I found... What else is better/less expensive for wall insulation?
So, if I use Roxul at 24" wide and build the room to 16" on centers, I can cut Roxul to fit 16" spacing and put the 8" pieces in the ceiling top layer of two total insulation layers in the ceiling if need be...

I need to get a Solid Core door and install this before I start framing. Then ensure that the door is sealed with some type of weather stripping on sides and at the floor.

WALLS:
Unfinished Side of Basement
  1. 5/8" drywall of some type
  2. 2x4 metal studs on 16" or 24" centers
  3. Roxul Insulation
  4. Some type of resilient channel: I don't know about the different types - I was thinking of something about 1/2" thick...
  5. I read that you can put a closed cell foam at the resilient channel to help with sound proofing before adding the first layer, your thoughts...?
  6. Celotex sound deadening board 1/2" for the first layer
  7. GG
  8. Overlapping the Celotex seams with QuietRock 1/2" for the second layer of drywall
  9. Caulking for sound
Finished HT Side of Basement

CEILING:
  1. 2x10 wood floor joists on 16" centers
  2. Pieces of leftover Roxul at 8" and 8"
  3. Second layer of Roxul at 16" wide
  4. Resilient Channel of some type
  5. 1 layer of 5/8" drywall of some type - Any recco's?

FLOORS:
  • The floors are concrete slab
  • I was thinking of just carpet padding of some type
  • Then a low profile/tight weave of carpet
  • Do I need to consider another sound treatment here, if so what are your thoughts about using roofing roll here? Rolled Roofing or Roofing Roll has been mentioned in other threads as a less expensive alternative to adding mass...

I'd love to put in recessed lights in the ceiling, however I have reservations about turning all of this into swiss cheese...

What is too much to do if you are on a budget? What am I missing? What would you do differently?

Thanks,

Greg
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post #51 of 58 Old 07-22-2013, 09:13 AM
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I'd use standard 5/8" drywall Nothing exotic, including the Celotex board. You want extreme mass.
I'd use standard (cheap) R13 or R19 fiberglass
I'd decouple the walls via double studs, decouple the ceiling with clips and channel

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post #52 of 58 Old 07-22-2013, 05:36 PM
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Ok,

Ted, first, let me say thank you for responding to my question. I view you as the Resident Expert on Sound Proofing. I have seen your posts and your Company website, quite impressive.

Here is my dilemma/situation/opportunity... I have a poured concrete wall on the left and viewing sides of my proposed HT. Do I need much more than say: metal stud, on 16" or 24" centers with 5/8" DD and GG on those two sides?

I get how you need Decoupling, Mass, etc. however I would prefer not to give up too much "valuable" real estate in the HT room...?!?

So when you say decouple the walls are you referring to:

OR MORE OBVIOUSLY

Again, I'd prefer not to give up too much real estate, and I do have the pored concrete walls on two sides...

If necessary, I'd add clips vs. resilient channel to the walls before I go to the double stagger configuration... To save money, I'd consider the Staggered stud wall that is 2x4 studs offset on a 2x6 base plate, but wouldn't 5/8" DD w/ GG good enough too...

What's necessary?

Your thoughts...?
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post #53 of 58 Old 07-23-2013, 04:46 AM
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Your concrete wall counts as one of the two walls in a double wall scenario. So just build a single set of studs in front of the concrete, spaced 1" away from the concrete, and you'll have the gold standard double wall.
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post #54 of 58 Old 07-23-2013, 05:16 AM
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Thank Ted:

24" or 16" Centers?
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post #55 of 58 Old 07-23-2013, 05:33 AM
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Doesn't matter once the wall is decoupled.

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post #56 of 58 Old 07-23-2013, 06:24 AM
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How much would it cost to run resilient channel and clips for a room 18.5'x30'x9'? Does it accomplish anything to mount the drywall with clips if only using one sheet of 5/8"?
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post #57 of 58 Old 08-14-2013, 02:10 PM
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Ted,

On the decoupled wall, if we have XPS foam on the concrete wall, I assume we need to be disconnected form that correct?

Also, how do you decouple the walls form the ceiling joists on the frame in?

Thanks

Feel free to point me to specific link on the forum. I checked your website but it did not go into detail on how the intersections of the walls and joists were decoupled. i.e. if I use channel on the ceiling, how do I decouple the wall from the ceiling joists? Do I just go channel on all walls and ceiling?
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post #58 of 58 Old 08-14-2013, 02:31 PM
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Bal- You would not want the wall studs pressing against the foam, correct.

The inner walls can be connected to the existing joists with an IB-3 clip. I sent you a PM with the SIM attached.

Wraunch- Once you have a decoupled system, adding mass really is a great bang for the buck. Two sheets would perform much better, but decoupling with one sheet gives you the opportunity to add a second sheet later

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