Help me design my home theater - planning stage - Page 5 - AVS Forum
View Poll Results: Is this plan practical?
Yes 0 0%
No 0 0%
Voters: 0. You may not vote on this poll

Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #121 of 148 Old 03-01-2012, 08:25 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
DIYHomeTheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 338
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMcG View Post

Why not mount the Buttkickers to the chairs themselves? Many chairs already have a landing area / mounting spot for the Buttkicker to mount directly to the chair. And then there are other "Brackets" that slip under the feet of the chairs for low or no profile (height) applications. You don't need to build a small riser IMHO.

Because, Craig John (a contributor to these forums) told me that if your feet are on a concrete slab you dont get the full tacticle response - your body is out of synch with your feet. A raised platform addresses this discrepancy.
DIYHomeTheater is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #122 of 148 Old 03-01-2012, 08:33 AM
HOME THEATER CONTRACTOR
 
BIGmouthinDC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 20,671
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 210 Post(s)
Liked: 574
I've never had a guest that didn't sit in their reclining theater seat with their seat at least partially reclined and their feet off the ground, so the floor is irrelevant. If you are planning non reclining seats without a footrest it would make some sense.
BIGmouthinDC is online now  
post #123 of 148 Old 03-01-2012, 08:42 AM
AnalysisParalysis Analyst
 
TMcG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 2,619
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 210 Post(s)
Liked: 276
My thoughts exactly, Big. Mounting one LFE into each chair is optimal, but you could also use this Buttkicker kit without building the riser at a rate of one per individual piece of furniture. If you are looking to shake this 3" riser with one of these kits, then that is an understandable approach to go with a small profile platform to cover multiple seats. But either way I don't understand how things could be mis-synched.
TMcG is offline  
post #124 of 148 Old 03-02-2012, 08:30 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
DIYHomeTheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 338
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
My 2nd design for the rear seat riser. This time, incorporating a bass trap design. The riser will butt up against the rear and side walls. The idea is to create four cavities in the riser in the ratio of 1:2:4:8 volumes. Each cavity will be separated by a floor to deck joist with no air passage allowed between them. Within each cavity the deck joists will have an air gap from the floor. I will install 4x14 standard air registers along the walls to let the low frequency waves in to the bass trap. Will this work? (see attached picture)

 

Riser Design.pdf 175.4873046875k . file
DIYHomeTheater is offline  
post #125 of 148 Old 03-03-2012, 07:08 AM
AnalysisParalysis Analyst
 
TMcG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 2,619
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 210 Post(s)
Liked: 276
Quote:
Originally Posted by DIYHomeTheater View Post

My 2nd design for the rear seat riser. This time, incorporating a bass trap design. The riser will butt up against the rear and side walls. The idea is to create four cavities in the riser in the ratio of 1:2:4:8 volumes. Each cavity will be separated by a floor to deck joist with no air passage allowed between them. Within each cavity the deck joists will have an air gap from the floor. I will install 4x14 standard air registers along the walls to let the low frequency waves in to the bass trap. Will this work? (see attached picture)

DIY - here is the formula for calculating the resonant frequency of a Helmholtz Resonator where f is the resonant frequency (Hz), c is the speed of sound (1120ft/s), p =3.14, S is the area of the port (ft 2 ), L is the length of the port (ft), and V is the cavity volume (ft 3 ).

Your first mistake is looking only at square footage instead of cubic volume as well. Second, it is significantly easier to deal with a single, large common volume than it is to deal with a "pipe organ" of different frequencies by dividing the volumes up into four different zones.

Unless you REALLY understand fully what you are doing AND have the accompanying caliber of room (full professional acoustic analysis / treatments), then just build the riser, fill it from floor to decking with the pink fluffy stuff and call it a day.
TMcG is offline  
post #126 of 148 Old 03-03-2012, 09:38 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
DIYHomeTheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 338
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMcG View Post
DIY - here is the formula for calculating the resonant frequency of a Helmholtz Resonator where f is the resonant frequency (Hz), c is the speed of sound (1120ft/s), p =3.14, S is the area of the port (ft 2 ), L is the length of the port (ft), and V is the cavity volume (ft 3 ).

Your first mistake is looking only at square footage instead of cubic volume as well. Second, it is significantly easier to deal with a single, large common volume than it is to deal with a "pipe organ" of different frequencies by dividing the volumes up into four different zones.

Unless you REALLY understand fully what you are doing AND have the accompanying caliber of room (full professional acoustic analysis / treatments), then just build the riser, fill it from floor to decking with the pink fluffy stuff and call it a day.
Point well taken. Even when I was in graduate school I was not particularly good at solving partial differential equations. Today, I don't stand a chance.

I have converted my design to a single large partition using bar-type long registers. See attached.

(While I knew that resonance is a function of volume, not surface area, I provided the latter because I figured that it is more easily understandable).

Thanks.

Now, I have to correct some past mistakes. I had not thought of a riser going all the way to the rear and side walls, but to be an effective bass trap, it must. I will remove the baseboards that I had installed - hopefully easy because the finish nails were driven into two layers of drywall.

 

Riser Design ver. 2.pdf 173.283203125k . file
DIYHomeTheater is offline  
post #127 of 148 Old 03-03-2012, 11:45 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
Dennis Erskine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Near an airport
Posts: 9,141
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked: 46
"Joists from decking to floor. Well, sir. Don't bother with the nailor vents in the decking. That cavity has to be open.

Dennis Erskine CFI, CFII, MEI
Architectural Acoustics
Subject Matter Expert
Certified Home Theater Designer
CEDIA Board of Directors
www.erskine-group.com
www.CinemaForte.net
Dennis Erskine is offline  
post #128 of 148 Old 03-03-2012, 01:26 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
DIYHomeTheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 338
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Erskine View Post

"Joists from decking to floor. Well, sir. Don't bother with the nailor vents in the decking. That cavity has to be open.

Dennis:

Only the perimeter of the riser has joists from decking to floor. The inside joists are shown by broken lines in my last post and they indicate joists that extend only partway to floor. That's the right way to do it, correct?

Thanks
DIYHomeTheater is offline  
post #129 of 148 Old 03-05-2012, 05:43 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
DIYHomeTheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 338
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Built the second step of the stage and started framing the riser perimeter (2x12s)
LL
LL
DIYHomeTheater is offline  
post #130 of 148 Old 03-05-2012, 06:15 AM
HOME THEATER CONTRACTOR
 
BIGmouthinDC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 20,671
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 210 Post(s)
Liked: 574
Quote:
Originally Posted by DIYHomeTheater View Post

Did you secure the riser to the floor?
I wont be able to get the framing nails into the 2x10 (decking) studs from outside the perimeter framing on the back wall (the way I would have liked). My option then is to toe-nail them in, but never having done this before, not sure if they will hold the weight.

Gravity works just fine. I agree I wouldn't rely on toenailing. Use hangers on the back, If you want you could cut a mid span support board the exact height of the bottom gap to take out any bounce in the riser with that length of span. It doesn't have to be continuous.
BIGmouthinDC is online now  
post #131 of 148 Old 03-05-2012, 08:30 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
DIYHomeTheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 338
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post

If you want you could cut a mid span support board the exact height of the bottom gap to take out any bounce in the riser with that length of span. It doesn't have to be continuous.

I didn't understand this.
DIYHomeTheater is offline  
post #132 of 148 Old 03-05-2012, 08:31 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
DIYHomeTheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 338
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
What type of cabiling should I consider for controlling my components (in another room, out of line of sight) from a hand-held interface at the front row?
DIYHomeTheater is offline  
post #133 of 148 Old 03-05-2012, 09:42 AM
HOME THEATER CONTRACTOR
 
BIGmouthinDC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 20,671
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 210 Post(s)
Liked: 574
Quote:
Originally Posted by DIYHomeTheater View Post

I didn't understand this.

From DE's latest posted thread

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1373052

this picture show a few, you could do more if you want, you could also cut a board that is the exact height of the gap and run perpendicular at mid-span. This method is pretty quick, fasten two boards at a right angle throw it on the floor and bang to the side of the joists. That would eliminate any measuring and compensate for any unevenness in the floor.

BIGmouthinDC is online now  
post #134 of 148 Old 03-05-2012, 09:56 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
DIYHomeTheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 338
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post

From DE's latest posted thread

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1373052

this picture show a few, you could do more if you want, you could also cut a board that is the exact height of the gap and run perpendicular at mid-span. This method is pretty quick, fasten two boards at a right angle throw it on the floor and bang to the side of the joists. That would eliminate any measuring and compensate for any unevenness in the floor.


Thanks. I will do this since my spans are nearly 11'
DIYHomeTheater is offline  
post #135 of 148 Old 03-25-2012, 06:52 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
DIYHomeTheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 338
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Here is my general acoustic plan from BPape:

"For the rear wall, if going to DIY - I would do 3 layers of 2" 703 covered with some 4-5 mil plastic before covering in cloth.

2" OC703 at the reflection zone. Same on the front wall (or the ECOSSE in any of these positions.)

Same 2" for the wall panels. Ideally, you'd do floor to ceiling on the side walls for the first 8' of the room from the corner then floor to 5' high for the balance of the wall."

Questions:
A) how to fasten 6" of 703 to rear wall? What to do with electrical outlets that will be covered? How to mount rear surrounds on 6" of fiberglass?
B) to minimize effort, I don't plan on fabric from floor to ceiling. if I use 2" furring strips and cabinet screws for fastening 703 to walls, then can I have a continuous 5' high fabric panel covering the side walls? (I plan to finish the top edge with trim.). Or will I need transitions to cover fabric seams?
C) how to make wides speakers be toed in inside columns?

Thx
DIYHomeTheater is offline  
post #136 of 148 Old 03-25-2012, 10:22 AM
HOME THEATER CONTRACTOR
 
BIGmouthinDC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 20,671
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 210 Post(s)
Liked: 574
Build a false wall frame 6 inches off the back wall with studs spaced to fit a piece of 24 inch wide 703. Friction fit the 703 in the wall, it won't go anywhere. Once covered with stretched and stapled fabric it will be secure. Extend the frame all the way to the ceiling and use to hang your surrounds. Mount new electrical boxes on the false wall framing and connect the wiring to the existing boxes.

On columns for wide surrounds you need to either have columns with angled fronts or come up with a design that has the minimum interference at the outside corner edges for a speaker that is aimed and the proper angle.

We used pipes at the Bacon Race. The column is acoustically transparent on 3 sides.
BIGmouthinDC is online now  
post #137 of 148 Old 03-25-2012, 10:57 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
DIYHomeTheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 338
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post

Build a false wall frame 6 inches off the back wall with studs spaced to fit a piece of 24 inch wide 703. Friction fit the 703 in the wall, it won't go anywhere. Once covered with stretched and stapled fabric it will be secure. Extend the frame all the way to the ceiling and use to hang your surrounds. Mount new electrical boxes on the false wall framing and connect the wiring to the existing boxes.

On columns for wide surrounds you need to either have columns with angled fronts or come up with a design that has the minimum interference at the outside corner edges for a speaker that is aimed and the proper angle.

We used pipes at the Bacon Race. The column is acoustically transparent on 3 sides.

Thanks! I didn't think of that. Great.
DIYHomeTheater is offline  
post #138 of 148 Old 03-25-2012, 09:06 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
DIYHomeTheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 338
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post

Build a false wall frame 6 inches off the back wall with studs spaced to fit a piece of 24 inch wide 703. Friction fit the 703 in the wall, it won't go anywhere. Once covered with stretched and stapled fabric it will be secure. Extend the frame all the way to the ceiling and use to hang your surrounds. Mount new electrical boxes on the false wall framing and connect the wiring to the existing boxes.

On columns for wide surrounds you need to either have columns with angled fronts or come up with a design that has the minimum interference at the outside corner edges for a speaker that is aimed and the proper angle.

We used pipes at the Bacon Race. The column is acoustically transparent on 3 sides.

Big, instead of using 2 half inch plywood layers for the panel frames, would using a 2x2 with a half inch layer of beveled plywood be appropriate for a panel frame to achieve the 2" depth?
DIYHomeTheater is offline  
post #139 of 148 Old 03-25-2012, 09:26 PM
HOME THEATER CONTRACTOR
 
BIGmouthinDC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 20,671
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 210 Post(s)
Liked: 574
Sounds like it might work if you can find straight 2x2s. From what I have seen local 2x2s are the worst grade wood sold. If they are straight today I have no expectation that they will be straight in 30 days. You can also put MDF in the mix if you want instead of plywood.

I only use 2x2s when they will be secured to something and used as furring or blocking. Not something that needs to hold a straight edge over time.
BIGmouthinDC is online now  
post #140 of 148 Old 03-26-2012, 04:27 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
DIYHomeTheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 338
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post

Sounds like it might work if you can find straight 2x2s. From what I have seen local 2x2s are the worst grade wood sold. If they are straight today I have no expectation that they will be straight in 30 days. You can also put MDF in the mix if you want instead of plywood.

I only use 2x2s when they will be secured to something and used as furring or blocking. Not something that needs to hold a straight edge over time.

Any other options? Building up 2" using layers of plywood seems to be too labor intensive. Finished pine? BTW, I am planning to shamelessly copying the Bacon Race wall panelling technique.
DIYHomeTheater is offline  
post #141 of 148 Old 03-26-2012, 05:23 AM
HOME THEATER CONTRACTOR
 
BIGmouthinDC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 20,671
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 210 Post(s)
Liked: 574
Quote:
Originally Posted by DIYHomeTheater View Post

Any other options? Building up 2" using layers of plywood seems to be too labor intensive.

But building a theater is a labor of love, can never have enough love.

OK, the quickest way would be to buy the best straightest driest premium 2x4 studs you can find. Rip them down to 2 inches wide. Let them sit in your basement for a a couple of weeks and the ones still straight, use for your frames.

If you have money burning a hole in your pocket use the pre primed finger joined pine boards that are sold in 16 ft lengths, and cut them to 2 inches. Buy them straight and they will stay straight. No knot holes.



You can cut three 2 inch wide boards from these.



Don't buy the 4 inch (actually 3 1/2) as you will only get one board out of a $20 piece of wood. Twice as much
BIGmouthinDC is online now  
post #142 of 148 Old 03-26-2012, 08:59 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
DIYHomeTheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 338
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Thanks or the tip. I might use Fabricmate if it is less trouble to install.
DIYHomeTheater is offline  
post #143 of 148 Old 04-15-2013, 05:52 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
DIYHomeTheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 338
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I finally finished my theater after almost 3 years of labor (finished the rest of the basement first!). Here are some pics:
Riser framed. Riser also functions as a bass trap. I left a 6" air gap at the rear and used R-19" unfaced insulation between the joists. The R-19 was suspended above the basement floor using plastic netting that I installed to prevent the insulation from falling through. The riser sits on roofing felt material. Used 3 layers of OSB: 3/4"+1/2"+3/4" with on tube of green glue between layers for each sheet.



Here are pictures of the stage: The cavities were filled with sand that I had delivered in bulk from a local supplier. The sand was wet so I let it dry for a few days in the sun, but it was a lot less expensive and more convenient than buying in bags from a big box store (which was also wet anyway). Total of 2 cubic yards of sand. I lined the stage cavities with plastic sheets. The stage was built the same way as the riser: 3 layers of OSB.



Once I built the stage, I built a false wall for the screen and in-wall subs. Below is the sequence of the in wall-sub installation:

First the wall is framed, the speaker enclosures installed (with green glue behind the enclosures), and the cavities filled with Roxul



Then, the first layer of 1/2" drywall and green glue...


...second layer of drywall...


speaker drivers installed, with 2" of OC703 fiberglass


And the whole thing covered with black muslin from Joann's Fabrics


I also put 2' on side, triangular OC705 on the left and right corners for bass traps
DIYHomeTheater is offline  
post #144 of 148 Old 04-15-2013, 06:04 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
DIYHomeTheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 338
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Construction details of my screen masking system using the details described in this thread




I plan to install Heights speakers and built platforms to support them




My soundstage: 3 Atlantic Technology 8200es, 2 Atlantic Technology in-wall subs, and 2 B&W 805 Matrix Heights


Screen frame being built. It is a 2.40 screen with 59" finished height


Here is the finished screen with Seymour Center Stage material (and daughter for scale)


I started the project with virtually no construction skills, but by now I was reasonably good with many trades...(including sewing...more on that later...)

DIY rack - Emotiva UPA-7, Denon 4520, Oppo BDP103, Atlantic Technology SA700 sub amp, and Tivo make up my gear


Bass shaker amps - Yung 200W sub amp from Parts Express. I find it provides more than enough power for the subtle shaking that one needs for a theatrical performance
DIYHomeTheater is offline  
post #145 of 148 Old 04-15-2013, 06:10 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
DIYHomeTheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 338
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Carpet installed. I used the following acoustical treatments:

2" 703:
- on front wall (stage to ceiling)
- on side wall, floor to ceiling for first 10 feet, and then up to 5' for the rest of the room

3 layers of 6" 703 (total 6") on rear wall (riser to ceiling) covered with 5 mil plastic sheet

front corners: 2' on side triangles of OC705 stage floor to ceiling (as mentioned earlier)

The whole thing was covered with GOM. I made the mistake of painting the room walls not realizing that I would need this treatment and will be covering with fabric
I made speaker columns using GOM and 1/2" steel tubes that I filled with sand.





Step lights
DIYHomeTheater is offline  
post #146 of 148 Old 04-15-2013, 07:42 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
DIYHomeTheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 338
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Sony HW50ES projector with ISCO III lens and DPI sled hung from an RPA Chief Mount Reading glasses for scale.


iRule interface on iPad3
DIYHomeTheater is offline  
post #147 of 148 Old 04-15-2013, 07:45 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
DIYHomeTheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 338
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Fusion Lagoon seats delivered by forum member 'RSH' (Roman)


Seats unpacked...


and installed in theater...


Aura Pro bass shakers installed under every seat
DIYHomeTheater is offline  
post #148 of 148 Old 04-15-2013, 07:46 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
DIYHomeTheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 338
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Opening night!!!
DIYHomeTheater is offline  
Reply Dedicated Theater Design & Construction

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off