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Old 05-26-2011, 01:18 PM
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I know somebody that's going to have red eyes on Tuesday after staring at the new projector all weekend! Enjoy.

The "Twinseltown" Theater
Construction Thread
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Old 05-26-2011, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Horstkotte View Post
Got my projector last night, woo hoo! Haven't had a chance to test it out and I'm at work, boo hoo. Used JVC RS-20U from a guy not too far from me.
And there goes progress...................right out the window!!

On the bright side MW2 is going to be a whole new world for you on the big screen. Good luck adjusting to the sensitivity on a much larger screen.

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Old 05-26-2011, 01:47 PM
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Congrats on the projector. It's been fun watching the progress, but it looks like this build may come to a grinding halt once you get that thing mounted

Dude, are you made of leprechauns? Cause that was awesome!

The Plains Theater Has Begun
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Old 05-26-2011, 02:31 PM
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Awesome! Looking forward to some pics!

The Esquire Theater Construction Thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1289590
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Old 05-26-2011, 03:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J_P_A View Post

it looks like this build may come to a grinding halt once you get that thing mounted

On the contrary, it came to a grinding halt about a month, I'm trying to use this to kickstart myself - will it work - probably not - but at least I'll have a projector.

p.s. I knew Tony, a.k.a. mr. 2000+ hours on the bulb during construction, would support my decision!
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Old 05-26-2011, 05:24 PM
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Wow,

All of this talk about a projector an no photos of the new arrival. Must be too busy pampering his new baby to let us see.

Enjoy, oh and I won't make any comments about lack of progress, screeching to a halt, etc. etc.

Well I guess I just did. Oh, well. ;-)


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Old 05-26-2011, 08:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Horstkotte View Post

Got my projector last night, woo hoo! Haven't had a chance to test it out and I'm at work, boo hoo. Used JVC RS-20U from a guy not too far from me.

Congrats Brad, looking forward to see some pics of the screen and projector.

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Old 05-27-2011, 03:58 PM - Thread Starter
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A few sloppy pictures - will try to get some better ones this weekend. The screen is 4 yards of $2.99/yd bleached muslin from Joanne's, which I'm using temporarily to get a feel for whether I want 2.35:1 or 16:9, and what size (i.e. as big as possible, while balancing the limits of what the PJ can reasonably support).

My plan is 2.35:1, but playing with Dark Knight and its oddball aspect ratio switches has given me pause. How do other 2.35:1 screen users deal with it? Just let it spill over when it goes 16:9? Any other movies that pull this nasty stunt?

New toy:



Ghetto "mount" (Chief universal mount ordered):



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Not bad for a $12 screen that's too short and held up by four C clamps:



(that's 122" wide, low lamp, 600 hours on the bulb, and User 1 setting, as set up by previous owner's calibrator, -8 iris)
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Old 05-27-2011, 04:32 PM
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Looks nice........please dont talk me out of going 2:35.1. I just recently talked myself into it as it really fills the room. Yes I lose some height due to my restricted ceilings (91")but what I do lose I make up in width........looking forward to your evaluation of 2.35 vs 16:9

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Old 05-27-2011, 04:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Yeah, I'm still 90% 2.35 I think too, I just like to waffle with just about every decision like its life and death you know.
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Old 05-27-2011, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Horstkotte View Post

Yeah, I'm still 90% 2.35 I think too, I just like to waffle with just about every decision like its life and death you know.

Believe me i am the EXACT same way. I have 5 carpet samples in my theater that I cant for the life of me pick a favorite and worse yet I want to go to more stores to add MORE samples to the mix.......yea like that will help.

I was convinced 2.35 was the best way to go as I get a lot wider screed with only sacrificing "some" height. Plus they just look awesome in the finished room. That said I watch a ton of sports (16:9), some TV (16:9) and play a good amount of xbox (16:9) so I will suffer a bit then however I have a 2nd xbox in the other room I "could" play on and 2 other Directv boxes to catch the game or some tv so maybe 2.35 will be fun?!

You going to be on tonight?? Maybe a little MW2 fun, we could blow some $@#% up

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Old 05-27-2011, 05:32 PM
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I don't hesitate one iota about having gone 2.35. It's without question the preferred option in my mind. With the particular dimensions in my room, I sacrifice nothing in height when showing a 1.85 image. Both use the maximum available to me for my room.

The "Twinseltown" Theater
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Old 05-27-2011, 05:39 PM
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Brad,
Nice to see you got the RS20 we talked about.....I think you will love it.

Later
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Old 05-27-2011, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tony123 View Post

I don't hesitate one iota about having gone 2.35. It's without question the preferred option in my mind. With the particular dimensions in my room, I sacrifice nothing in height when showing a 1.85 image. Both use the maximum available to me for my room.


See,

I'm just the opposite. I thought about going 2.35 then decided the trade off for me is not worth it. I'm going 16:9, and I'll either mask or live with the black bars. However I will end up watching just as much TV on the thing as I do movies and that is were the trade off is I guess. Depends on what type of watching you are going to do. If I was strictly movies I might be more inclined of doin 2.35

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Old 05-27-2011, 08:24 PM
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I don't realize what "trade off" I'm making? The available height on my screenwall is maximized for a 16:9 image, and the 2.35 just makes it wider. I couldn't have been any larger for either ratio. I don't guess all rooms work out that way.

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Old 05-27-2011, 09:02 PM
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Nice buy.

TRON is another movie recently released that pulls the Dark Knight ratio switches I think....

I'd go 2.35 if I could redo mine again-AT.

For when you want to show off your theater the best, I'd think you'd want to have the 2.35 for the wow factor...since the theater is meant for the movies......even if you are getting blasted in Black Ops by me on 1.78.
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Old 05-27-2011, 09:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tony123 View Post

I don't realize what "trade off" I'm making? The available height on my screenwall is maximized for a 16:9 image, and the 2.35 just makes it wider. I couldn't have been any larger for either ratio. I don't guess all rooms work out that way.


Ok,

Maybe I'm still not understanding the whole 2.35 thing then. When I watch 16:9 material it fills the screen, when 2.35 it has "letter boxing". On a 2.35 screen when you watch 16.9 do you not then get "pillar boxing" on the side right? Same height picture, just not the entire screen width. Just the opposite for 16:9 same width but less height. That is my understanding. Now if you are talking lenses and all of that "magic stuff" then that is a whole different ball of wax since there is pixel magic, stretching, and squashing taking place to make everything look right.

So if this is the case then if I watch a lot of TV then does it not make sense to optimize for that type of watching? May be my use of trade off was not correct, may be I should have said preference. However I have not had much experience with 2.35 screens and once I actually get a PJ up and experiment with it my preference may change.

So the bottom line is the whole thing of 16:9 vs. 2.35 debate still continues.

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Old 05-27-2011, 09:21 PM
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3 months ago I was convinced that 16:9 is what I am getting. I watch a lot of movies but I send up watching NFL games and some NBA as well.
At that time I was thinking of getting 110 Inch diagonal 16:9 screen.
I had a semi large room ( 16.8x25x8'9" ).
I am going to go with 2.35 130" wide AT screen.
This will actually give me 112 Inch diagonal 16:9 screen but for movies I will have a 142 Inch diagonal, 130 inch wide screen.
So I hoping that I will get the best of both worlds.
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Old 05-27-2011, 09:33 PM
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just as a thought, it is a lot easier to mask vertically than horizontally. Do a search on DIY screen masking, or browse through the DIY screen section of the forums, you'll be amazed of what some of these guys get accomplished.

Here is an example:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1129754

And of course if you do it 100% right with a combination of video processor and lens/prism it makes it easier since the height does not change.

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Old 05-28-2011, 05:12 AM
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RT, I'm no expert either. But here's my thinking on it.

I have a 168" wide 2.35 image that uses all the vertical space that I have available (being limited by view angles). When I zoom down to a 16:9 image, I do have the pillar boxing that you mention. However, I'm still using the entire space available to me for height.

In other words, I couldn't make my 16:9 image any larger, even if that was the aspect of screen I put in. In addition, I couldn't have made my 2.35 image any larger.

I took the most limiting dimension in my room (height) and maximized the screen size for both aspects. Do I have a unique space in that respect?

2.35 is designed to be a larger image. Why don't guys that decide on a 16:9 screen want to put the extra width on the screen? It's got to be because they're challenged by room dimensions? I'm not sure.

The way I see it, I wonder why there's a debate at all?

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Old 05-28-2011, 06:41 AM
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Tony,

Maybe it is the "limiting" factors of our particular spaces as I think I'm width limited vs. height limited that determine our final decision on which way to go. I could be that since I have not had "personal" experience with 2.35 in my space just 16:9 and eons ago 4:3 that I'm still not convinced that 2.35 for me is the way to go. However when I get to the point where I'm hanging a PJ and experimenting with screen sizes I will explore all of my options for sure. This will be pretty easy as I am doing a DIY paint screen. BTW what PJ are you using?

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Old 05-28-2011, 09:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Tony has the Panny 4000.

OK, I'm all in on 2.35:1, just trying to settle on the size.

Despite what I know about the lumen capability of the RS-20U - 130" wide looks damn good to me, and that's with eco mode, 622 hours on the bulb, THX setting. At my seating distance (front row center, about 12' away), the brightness is fine; playing around in the 120" wide to 130" wide range, to see what I like best.

Art's review measured 837 lumens for THX at mid throw; 15% more at closest throw which I will be using (or close to it), so that's 962. Using the 16:9 with the same 130" width (since when zooming, the output to the top/bottom bars is wasted), it would be 130x73.2 = 66 square feet. 962.55 / 66 = 14.58 ft/lamberts. Of course less as the bulb ages, and not taking into account screen gain, PJ variability, and phase of the moon. But that's still based on eco mode, so if/when it dims, I can resort to normal mode.

Ultimately, what I see matters a lot more than the calcs or measurements, but just putting that down as a sanity check.

Need to also experiment a bit more with the equivalent height 16:9 sizes.

130" wide: 130x55.3 2.35:1 (141.3 diagonal), 98.3x55.3 16:9 (112.78 diagonal)

125: wide: 125x53.19 2.35:1 (135.85 diagonal), 94.56x53.19 16:9 (108.49 diagonal)

120" wide: 120x51 2.35:1 (130.39 diagonal), 90.78x51 16:9 (104.12 diagonal)

For me, here are the tradeoffs/factors to consider:

- I will be zooming (I don't mind)
- I plan on gaming some (I'm OK with a somewhat smaller gaming screen)
- I probably won't watch much sports in there, in the dark - the room just isn't set up optimally for that kind of event - once in a while, if people don't mind watching in the dark (or close to it)
- balancing size and projector output (lumens) / image quality (I'm willing to sacrifice a little to get a more immersive experience - what I see is more important to me than what a light meter has to say)
- aspect ratio switches in the middle of movies are kind of annoying (I guess for the few titles that do that, I'll just let it spill over, not sure)
- 16:9 menus (if I rip movies to HTPC, it will be a non issue, but not doing that initially; otherwise, just push play I guess)
- 16:9 movies (deal with it, same as gaming)
- hmm, constant image area is a thought, haha, hadn't considered that, oh no, another variable to consider!! I.e. pick the 2.35:1 width I want, but make it taller than needed - bars for 2.35, bars for 16:9, but both big. Rich Harkness style. Haven't played with that yet. Waffle waffle waffle. Go me. Doubt that's a serious contender, but I'll try it out just for kicks.

Interesting hearing all of your thoughts on the subject, and how you've made / are making your decision on aspect ratio / size.
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Old 05-28-2011, 09:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayjr View Post

Brad,
Nice to see you got the RS20 we talked about.....I think you will love it.

Later
RayJr

Thanks for the consultation Ray.

A lot of the choice was aided by the fact that I've had first hand experience with the JVCs in many of the So Cal UG theaters - so thanks for the demos (you, ivanpino, filecat13)!

Quote:
Originally Posted by hehateme View Post

I am going to go with 2.35 130" wide AT screen.
This will actually give me 112 Inch diagonal 16:9 screen but for movies I will have a 142 Inch diagonal, 130 inch wide screen.
So I hoping that I will get the best of both worlds.

That's right where I'm at too - what's your seating distance? Mine is about 12' in the front row.

Quote:
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Why don't guys that decide on a 16:9 screen want to put the extra width on the screen? It's got to be because they're challenged by room dimensions? I'm not sure.

The way I see it, I wonder why there's a debate at all?

Some of it could be due to the hassle factor - i.e. dealing with the expense / complexity of either zooming (and associated tradeoffs, like subtitles off screen, 16:9 menus, switching aspect ratios), or anamorphic lenses and perhaps scalers. Projectors are made for 16:9, so that's of course the easiest path - plug and play.
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Old 05-28-2011, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Horstkotte View Post

For me, here are the tradeoffs/factors to consider:


- I plan on gaming some (I'm OK with a somewhat smaller gaming screen)

Interesting hearing all of your thoughts on the subject, and how you've made / are making your decision on aspect ratio / size.

When I had my 14' wide Elite Screen pulldown, prior to the HT, and I was gaming on it...sometimes it was hard to see all corners of the map/gaming screen/etc.

Think Call of Duty, enemy coming from the corner. Sometimes my eyes couldn't see the whole screen!


I think you'll like the 2.35, plus if you plan on entertaining inside the house for sports, etc I don't see why you would really want 16:9, you know?
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Old 05-28-2011, 10:37 AM
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Actually if you use prisms and a custom enclosure for them, doing CIH (constant image height) is not that expensive. The expensive part is the VP (video processor), and even that now a days can be had fairly inexpensive.

To describe CIH in simple terms... you squish the image with the VP and then let the prisms expand it to the correct proportions. Then to watch 16:9 just move the prisms out of the way and put the VP to pass-through.

The advantage of doing CIH over zooming is that there is no wasted image (black bars).

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Old 05-28-2011, 10:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Yes, you do get to use all the light output from the PJ's panel when using a lens - but you aren't adding any resolution per se - and adding potential for chromatic abberation, pincushion distortion, and additional cost and complexity. Also consider that when using a lens, its better to mount the projector further back, so any brightness you gain is offset to some degree by having to mount the projector further away.

Not to turn this into a lens vs zoom debate, as there are plenty of those, but I have read up on it quite a bit, and decided at least for now to go with zooming. Then again, its my first dedicated HT, so I could well change my tune at some point later on.
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Old 05-28-2011, 09:49 PM
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Brad,

I have a long room(22 feet excluding the false wall) with only 1 row of seating. So right now I am considering putting the sofa around 14-15 feet away from 130 inch wide 2.35 screen.
Unlike you I don't have a projector yet. I am still waiting for Art's annual projector report to come out next month before I purchase the projector.
All I have done is put up a masking tape and viewed it from 14.5 feet.
I also visited a local home theater shop that had a 130 inch 2.35 screen with many rows or seating. The closest was 12 feet and the second row was at 14.5 feet and the second feet looked good to me.

I am assuming that you built your false wall after carpeting your room. I cannot remember this as I have read too many build threads. You false wall design must allow you to choose different screen sizes. I should also do the same. My general contract keeps on asking me when I will build the false wall and I have to keep on telling him that it will happen later.
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Old 05-28-2011, 11:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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I am assuming that you built your false wall after carpeting your room. I cannot remember this as I have read too many build threads. You false wall design must allow you to choose different screen sizes. I should also do the same.
Actually, no, I framed out the false wall first, and had the carpet installers install the carpet around it, which they had no problem doing. I built the main opening with roughly 136" diagonal 2.35:1 in mind, but framed so that if I went a bit smaller or larger, it should still work (and if not, unscrewing and moving a couple studs is no big deal really).

Just finished watching Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen with my wife and son, first full movie on the brand spanking new two strips of bleached muslin screen. I had that nice grin on my face for sure. 130" wide 2.35:1 is pulling away from the pack. Go big or go home, eh Tony?

I think maybe I go back for a double feature in a half hour or so. Hmm, what to watch...

Sub is doing its clunk act once in a while, which pisses me off, but I'm going to work on a few other things before banging my head against the wall on it again.

I covered a couple of the wall panels, its going to look nice I think. However, the fabric is a bear to get evenly stretched, I think I might have to either switch to a 1/2" crown stapler instead of narrow crown, or space the narrow staples very close (use twice as many), as its hard to not get some uneven tension that shows up as slight waves.
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Old 05-29-2011, 06:04 AM
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In the early years, I had a largish screen too. Of course, that was with projector technology of 12 years ago. It was an obvious compromise back then. With current technology, I feel the compromise is very slight, if any. I do agree with the earlier comment regarding gaming. I know it affects my online COD game.

Discussions I see regarding, "do I go with 96" or 104" seem pointless to me.

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Old 05-29-2011, 06:51 AM
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I don't know a whole lot about the Panny, but it has a "zoom" feature that make it a lot easier to go back and forth from 16:9 to 2.35 right? That might be the difference. Or do you leave it at one setting and not change? I do agree with you that the "debate" of what screen size is much more frivolous than the 16:9 - 2.35 decision.

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RTROSE

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Now a Certified Carpet Counselor and Plumbing Counselor (Self given titles - pay no attention).
Enjoying my "almost done" theater.
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