Rich H's Variable Image Size Home Theater - Build Thread - Completed! - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 210 Old 05-15-2012, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

modul8tr,

I'm glad this thread is of help to you.

I have noticed no ventilation issues since employing the new curtain system (e.g. the curtains that separate the projector from the rest of the room). No heat build up. It seems heat still moves fine in the room.

I do have an AC vent on the ceiling near the top left of my screen. It's a small "space-pack" (added on to existing old house) outlet. I know now that we should have had two outlets for that room, when we original got it. But it does a pretty good job of keeping the room cool enough in the summer. I did not do HVAC for the room so I initially worried about the room overheating. But generally it has been fine, with only a few times I've opened the curtain to the room a bit for venting (generally during a hot summer night with lots of people in the room for a sporting event). Also, I sometimes open the bay windows a crack for fresh air.

I do not use a sub. My center channel is huge and my L/R speakers go pretty low as well - most are amazed there's no sub in the room and for me it's actually more coherent.

Beautiful room Rich. Perhaps the best of it's kind (non-dedicated) I have seen. I differ with you on the sub for movie watching. It is probably best you not try one (especially a very good one or two) as you would never want to go back to a sub-less state.


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post #182 of 210 Old 05-15-2012, 03:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Beautiful room Rich. Perhaps the best of it's kind (non-dedicated) I have seen. I differ with you on the sub for movie watching. It is probably best you not try one (especially a very good one or two) as you would never want to go back to a sub-less state.

Thanks so much about the room.

As to subs, I'm quite familiar with them in home set ups. A pal of mine reviews audio gear and gets best-of-the-best level subs to play with for his home theater, which I often get to hear.

But more pertinent: I do Sound Design for film and TV and I listen to playback in top level mixing theaters with speakers/subs that make every home theater I've seen sound like toys. I'm kicked around often enough by super low bass so I know what I'm missing. After a long day of working doing sound tracks, I don't need to be kicked around much more, so I prefer my system as it is - very rich sounding but easy on the ears.

Rich H


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post #183 of 210 Old 08-05-2012, 09:11 PM
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@ Rich,

First of all, WOW! eek.gif dude you've got a really cool living room which turns into the perfect movie lover lair!

Second, thanks for your advice on my thread, much appreciated. smile.gif A few questions, if I may:
1. Is that as far back as your curtains will draw? I want to show it to my boss (girlfriend) the low aesthetic impact of your solution, hoping in a green light.
2. I would also welcome buying advice for the velvet. I live in Tokyo and the cheapest sound/light specific velvet which I found here was 2,800Yen/m2 (30$/m2!!!!!!). It might be cheaper for me to import it from the US!
3. Did you sound/light test any cheaper material?
4. Be honest, what gift did you buy to your wife to avoid divorce? tongue.gif My girlfriend would never be as understanding as your wife! eek.gif

Rich, really nice work! Well made!
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post #184 of 210 Old 08-08-2012, 02:56 PM
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post #185 of 210 Old 08-08-2012, 08:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Sorry, I've been on vacation...
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Originally Posted by ascanio1 View Post

@ Rich,
First of all, WOW! eek.gif dude you've got a really cool living room which turns into the perfect movie lover lair!
Second, thanks for your advice on my thread, much appreciated. smile.gif A few questions, if I may:
1. Is that as far back as your curtains will draw? I want to show it to my boss (girlfriend) the low aesthetic impact of your solution, hoping in a green light.

Yes sort of. If you look at the fist shots of my room on page 2 you'll get the best idea of the aesthetics. The curtains, for instance to the corners of the screen, are not pulled as tightly into the corner as they could be. This is because I don't want them THAT tight - I have them drawn out to meet the line of the black "stage" area on the floor, which makes for a neat, composed look all together.

Depending on how much wall you have to cover, and which material you use, your curtains may draw considerably smaller/tighter. FWIW, the black curtains that pull across the entire back room - about 12 feet of curtain - stack back into the corner about 1 1/2 feet wide or so.

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2. I would also welcome buying advice for the velvet. I live in Tokyo and the cheapest sound/light specific velvet which I found here was 2,800Yen/m2 (30$/m2!!!!!!). It might be cheaper for me to import it from the US!
3. Did you sound/light test any cheaper material?

I tested various black velvet materials from local fabric outlets. Since I was using lots of black velvet in the room - surrounding my screen, my screen hanging side masking curtain panels, speaker covers etc. I wanted both the darkest and the nicest looking velvet I could find. (Again, this is because some portion of the velvet would always be visible - if it weren't I wouldn't have cared so much about aesthetics).

The Fidelio black velvet, favored by many here, was both the darkest and the richest looking so that made my choice. Yes, it is more expensive than average velvet. But if you aren't as picky, almost any black velvet will do. (Though for me: "I don't always use velvet...but when I do, I use Fidelio.." except when...)

I also used the Devore Black Velvet (a bit cheaper I think?) for the newer black curtains that hide behind the brown curtains, and which pull around the room. It was both thinner (better to stack behind the existing curtains) and acoustically transparent (so I can hear my back surround speakers through it), as well as being almost as dark as the Fidelio velvet.
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4. Be honest, what gift did you buy to your wife to avoid divorce? tongue.gif My girlfriend would never be as understanding as your wife! eek.gif
Rich, really nice work! Well made!

"Understanding?"

I guess you haven't read this thread yet.biggrin.gif

No human could have been less interested than my wife in this idea, or more afraid of it ever happening to our home. It did indeed take a long time to get her on board. In my case I hired an interior designer
during portions to help with decor and design choices. My wife wouldn't trust my decisions, but trusted a professional, so it smoothed things out when the interior designer gave the thumbs up "don't worry, this will look nice."

Best o luck. You can tell your boss that my wife has been won over by the results and is now proud of the room.

Rich H


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post #186 of 210 Old 08-16-2012, 06:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Just a heads up:

in my itch to get things as black around the image as possible, I still have the ceiling left.

I went with a dark brown felt for the ceiling and I'm glad it did because it really cuts down on ceiling reflectivity. But it's still not as pitch black as the Fidelio black velvet and I've always wanted the ceiling to disappear as completely
as the walls and floor now do. So I have an idea I'm going to implement, a hopefully pretty cheap and easy way to have a "hood" of black velvet over the screen. The goal is to keep the aesthetics mostly as is, but the new velvet panel will become the new valance hanging down over the screen (hanging straight down just as my current valance boards do). But when I wish I'll be able to easily hook it up so it becomes a black hood over the screen, doing away with any slight ceiling reflection or visibility. I have the velvet - I'll post pictures when it's done.

I also had some other ideas that get the same effect and I'll try to post sketches of those too. I know a lot of us are stuck with the struggle between aesthetics and wanting bat-cave type performance, so I keep looking for ways to
keep good aesthetics for when the lights are on, but allowing for quick, easy change to bat-cave performance when desired for a movie.

Rich H


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post #187 of 210 Old 08-16-2012, 06:41 PM
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I just read through this and got quite a few ideas for a (still quite a few years away yet... frown.gif ) home theater I hope to build. I am really curious if it would be possible to do some of this in a rental - it seems a lot of what you've done could be done in a rental (curtains and the screen wall could be done reasonably easily I think, and maybe even something for the roof?). I may end up trying something like that in a few years smile.gif

Thanks for the good pictures, too!
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post #188 of 210 Old 11-11-2012, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

I have an idea I'm going to implement, a hopefully pretty cheap and easy way to have a "hood" of black velvet over the screen.


You know, people's clothing reflects a fair amount of light. If you made some long, hooded robes out of the black velvet, you could make the viewers don them as they enter the room. Maybe some black velvet booties to cover the light colored socks, too? Not sure the guests/family will go for blackout makeup [face and hands], though. biggrin.gifbiggrin.gif
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post #189 of 210 Old 11-11-2012, 12:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Way ahead of you farkem.

Guests now sit behind a wall of black velvet curtain. The film projects through a hole in the curtain. There are eye-holes cut out for guests to peer through and watch the movie. I'd ask them all to wear sunglasses, lest the whites of their eyes reflect back to the screen, but that risks the picture looking too dark.

Home theater is about compromises....wink.gif

Rich H


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post #190 of 210 Old 11-11-2012, 01:44 PM
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No more comedies, either. We don't want them smiling. The tooth glare would be totally distracting!

Hey... I wonder if you could rig up some sort of 5-sided blinders, attached to glasses. It'd be easier to eat popcorn than with the curtain/eyehole setup ... hmmmmm,

You know, that popcorn is throwing off an awful lot of glare... we need darker popcorn...

... and my mind wanders on. Sometimes, it's hard to stop.
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Only chocolate bars permitted in my home theater.
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post #192 of 210 Old 11-22-2012, 10:28 AM
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Only chocolate bars permitted in my home theater.

I hope you have brown seats. smile.gif

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post #193 of 210 Old 11-22-2012, 04:46 PM
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There is 1 cushy brown leather chair in the room, BECAUSE, it is a dedicated home theater for 1 person, me!
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post #194 of 210 Old 11-28-2012, 06:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by nguyenmy View Post

Dear Sir/Madam,
I would like to buy Audio Physic Scorpio 1 pair.
I know they produce them 5 years ago
So I can buy brand new or second hand.
Pls contact me soon.
Thanks and b.regards,
Nguyen My

Why are you posting this in my thread?

Are you somehow referring to the early photo of my old Audio Physic Scorpios and wish to buy them or something? If so, sorry but I sold them years ago.

Cheers,

Rich H


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post #195 of 210 Old 12-17-2012, 11:20 PM
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BIG A+, this gotta be the most cosy setup I've seen and high tech at the same time. Deffenatly 007 like smile.gif

EluneVision 106" Reference Studio 4K Tab-tensioned - 1.0 Gain, Benq 1070, psb T6, Rotel, OPPO, Velodine (Now),
135" AT screen, JVC-X35, 3x RF82, 3x Emotiva XPA100, Velodine, Rotel, OPPO (Sold with house).
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post #196 of 210 Old 12-18-2012, 02:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Why thanks yourtoys7!

Yeah, my aim was to make it as cozy as humanly possible. Once all the fur throw blankets are out, and big cushy pillows, it's like a womb. I don't think I've had a single guest who didn't remark about how comfortable the seating and room was for lounging and watching flicks.

I drove myself crazy trying to get every detail to meet my criteria, and in the end it's been well worth it.

(Though, I'm working on another room tweak as I write this).

If there is on issue I have with the system it's the good and bad side of the RTI emote control system I'm using. The good side of the coin is that it is so powerful and reliable, able to do anything I ask of it. And works very reliably (once all the kinks were initially worked out). The big downside is that it's a installer-programmable-only system. RTI doesn't give out it's codes, programs or instructions for programming to the user, only to the dealer/installers. Which means every time I want to change something, or add a new piece of equipment, I have to call the bloody dealer who of course charges and arm and a leg for additional programming. Worse...my original dealer has shut down leaving me adrift to try to find someone else to program when I need it. For someone used to doing stuff like this by myself, it can be pretty maddening. If it didn't work so well I'd be more pissed. (And I've looked at other options for remote control. I just don't like them as much, and I'm not sold on the iPad software versions as I prefer a remote with hard buttons and I think a device built as a dedicated remote, always "on" and ready to use is ultimately preferable to me).

Anyway, thanks again.

Rich H


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post #197 of 210 Old 02-13-2013, 12:10 PM
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Just killed a half hour reading this thread. The curtains, automation, and colored lights are all very well and good. But the question I think we all want answered, and perhaps people are afraid to ask is, how many nuclear warheads can you launch from this room using your remote?

You are an evil genius. Nice work.
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post #198 of 210 Old 02-13-2013, 02:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Xank View Post

Just killed a half hour reading this thread. The curtains, automation, and colored lights are all very well and good. But the question I think we all want answered, and perhaps people are afraid to ask is, how many nuclear warheads can you launch from this room using your remote?

Only two warheads. Programming the macros was a hassle. I need to upgrade my remote next year to achieve full nuclear deterrent.
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You are an evil genius. Nice work.

Thanks. Guests and friends may **** an eye at the effort I've gone to in the room, but they really appreciate the results.

Rich H


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post #199 of 210 Old 03-06-2013, 12:28 PM
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Rich:

Love the idea of the velvet Fidelio curtains, I have a question on the source of Fidelio curtain fabric. Did you need to purchase the fabric and have it made into a curtain? Is there a source for Fidelio vevet Curtains?
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post #200 of 210 Old 03-07-2013, 06:38 AM - Thread Starter
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LJG,

One place to get the Fidelio is Vogue Fabrics on-line.

I use an interior decorator - I tell her the size of the curtain I need, she tells me how much velvet to order and she has it sewn for me into curtains.

Though, anyone with some sewing skill, or shmoozing skills with someone who can sew, can get it done easily.

Adding the curtains was easily one of the best things I did for my system. It's just so quick and easy to go from cheery room to bat cave for movie watching.

Rich H


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post #201 of 210 Old 03-07-2013, 08:19 AM
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Anyone interested in black velvet should request a sample of the Black Plush Triple Velvet from SyFabrics. It's considerably cheaper than Fidelio ($8/yd vs. $40/yd.)

Here's a pic of my SeymuorAV screen frame wrapped in Fidelio velvet. There is a swatch of the Plush Triple Velvet draped over the corner. I don't see a $32/yd difference.

Spaceman Theater Build


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post #202 of 210 Old 03-07-2013, 08:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Spaceman,

Thanks very much for the input.

That velvet does look very dark! So that's a great option.

For me I had two considerations: The darkest possible velvet I could find combined with the nicest looking, because the velvet would be feature prominently on my screen wall and would hang as masking panels. The Fidelio was the one that happened to fulfill both those qualities: it was the darkest I could find but also the nicest,classiest looking. I had tons of different black velvets to check out, but they also felt and looked kinda cheap next to the Fidelio which has a thick luster. So for me the combo of super light absorption with the better aesthetics was worth the extra cost for the Fidelio. Everyone's MMV of course.

I went cheaper on the black velvet curtains that I use to surround my room because those remain hidden behind my nicer brown velvet curtains when not in use.

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post #203 of 210 Old 03-07-2013, 08:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spaceman View Post

Anyone interested in black velvet should request a sample of the Black Plush Triple Velvet from SyFabrics. It's considerably cheaper than Fidelio ($8/yd vs. $40/yd.)

Here's a pic of my SeymuorAV screen frame wrapped in Fidelio velvet. There is a swatch of the Plush Triple Velvet draped over the corner. I don't see a $32/yd difference.

I couldn't agree more.  The syfabrics fabric creates a black hole in the front of my room.  Also, it really does not stretch at all, and is easy to work with.  I've stapled and glued it.


My home theater build thread

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post #204 of 210 Old 03-07-2013, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
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I couldn't agree more.  The syfabrics fabric creates a black hole in the front of my room.  Also, it really does not stretch at all, and is easy to work with.  I've stapled and glued it.

Another +1, I used it for my false wall panels, it eats up light very well, including when I feel like cropping a 16:9 movie onto my 2.125:1 screen, tossing 5-6" on the top and bottom over onto the velvet frame and velvet panels.


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post #205 of 210 Old 03-07-2013, 03:49 PM - Thread Starter
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It's been interesting watching the high end Home Theater installation business touting more and more new systems that employ the variable image size concept, where one is not stuck only with a fixed image height (CIH) or fixed image width (standard set up). Instead the image is to be varied in size either to maintain a constant image size impact throughout aspect ratios (somewhat like Constant Image Area) and/or to vary the image size depending on the source content being used. Here's yet another example, this time the venerable Stewart Filmscreen touting their new Director's Choice "infinite masking" system:

http://akhomecinema.azexis.com/blog/2013/02/14/directors-choice-demo-at-ise-2013

I felt like the odd-ball out on this issue, skipping even CIH to use a wall-filling screen and employ 4-way automated masking with zooming to simply vary the image size to maximize the impact of any particular movie or source quality. It's been the single best decision I made of all for my home theater. I never grow used to any single image size as it's so often changing so the thrill of going to the largest image size, or even using a smaller but super-sharp and punchy image size, never wears off. And never any black bars, always the image floating in a field of jet black.

What gets me shaking my head is the EXPENSE of these systems, aimed as they are at the ultra high end clients. And the way these systems are touted they are the newest, state of the art concept "vary the image size TO THE SOURCE! YOU ONLY CAN GET THAT WITH THIS PRODUCT!" to justify these systems - some in the over $100K price range. Meanwhile, I'm thinking "Hey, I've got pretty much that...completely variable masking, automated via macros with as many pre-sets as I want, even some automated zooming now...and the masking system making this possible I did for around $4,500."

But..salesmen gotta sell...

Rich H


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post #206 of 210 Old 03-30-2013, 02:48 PM
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Hi Rich. I have been reading through the design and Implementation of your living room home theater. You have made me quite excited to employ a telescoping mount for a projector behind the viewing sofa as well as blackout velvet drapes around the four walls of my living room. I especially appreciate the clever four-way masking you have implemented for your screen. Because I will have an acoustically transparent retractable screen with all three front stage speakers behind, I imagine I will have to buy the end product from the screen manufacturer, employing four-way masking.

The main question I have for you is your measured or perceived changes in the room acoustics when the velvet drapes are deployed. I'm sure the sound is just as important to you as is the display in your home theater and I would like your impression as to whether the drapes deaden the room significantly. Also, if you use room correction software do you have two presets, one for daytime viewing and another for full blackout mode? Thank you.
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post #207 of 210 Old 03-30-2013, 07:48 PM - Thread Starter
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snpanago,

I'm glad you've found some inspiration in my zany efforts.

As for curtains and acoustics: Yes that is something I worried about. My room already errs slightly to the "dead" side and I didn't want it to sound too dead once I pulled velvet curtains around the room for movie watching. Also, the curtains would be pulled over some of my surround speakers. To that end instead of the thicker Fidelio black velvet I used for my screen wall, masking and speaker covers, I researched very dark black velvet that was acoustically transparent. A bunch of people on the UK AVForum raved about this stuff:

http://www.whaleys-bradford.ltd.uk/product.htm?productID=124

And claimed it was totally acoustically transparent (people used it for AT masking, and even for speaker grills and covering surround speakers etc). I ordered a bunch and found quite an amazing combination of being very dark and light absorbing velvet that allows sound to pass through. It's not absolutely perfectly acoustically transparent, t as I could just the teeniest bit of roll off when I placed a patch over a speaker (probably similar to the effects of an acoustically transparent screen, or even some speaker grills). Since these curtains would cover so much wall space I just wanted sound to pass through as much as possible.

As it turns out, they work very well. With the curtains fully surrounding the room it does get a tiny bit more dead, but I'm sure nowhere near if I"d gone for heavier less transparent fabric. The sound is still amazing with all the curtains pulled, both in terms of the sound of my rear FX speakers passing through the material, and the room in general.

Hope that helps.

Rich H


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post #208 of 210 Old 04-23-2013, 12:37 AM
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Hi, Rich! I'm interested how your curtains are mounted to the ceiling. Some kind of rails system?
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post #209 of 210 Old 04-23-2013, 08:50 AM
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Let me add to the above question Rich. I am thinking of adding velvet curtains down both sides. I am planning the build of a reno of my basement now so can work in what I want.

One black hole (pardon the pun) for me is how much space I need to plan for to accomodate these side curtains (they will run about 3.5 m). I'll probably go Fidelio although might go instead for the Black Plush Triple from sys. Either way I would guess curtains made of those materials are thick and bulky so thanks to give me an idea of the size of cupboards I need to build to hold them out of sight when not in use. It'd be nice if I had a sense of both the width required as well as the depth.

Congrats on your build by the way, fantastic stuff and loads of good ideas,

Dave M

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post #210 of 210 Old 04-23-2013, 03:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elix View Post

Hi, Rich! I'm interested how your curtains are mounted to the ceiling. Some kind of rails system?

Are you talking about the curtains that I use to pull around my walls? Yes they are on curtain rails, hidden between the drop down ceiling portion and my side walls. You can see photos of the track
a page or two back in this thread.

My black velvet masks also ride along a curtain track, but it's motorized. Pictures of that track are also in this thread, page one or two I think.

Rich H


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