The 'I can't believe you want the largest room in the house' HT build.1 - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 1009 Old 07-06-2010, 08:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi there mate,
Can't tell you that I have any experience with the Emotiva Subs but if they are anything like the other gear they manufacture they should be excellent in terms of value and performance. They have a special on right now. At $350 odd for a 12 inch model with free shipping, seems like a good deal. Details at:
http://emotiva.com/ultra_sub12.shtm
Just in case they are what you are after...
Best of luck,
Greg

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post #32 of 1009 Old 07-08-2010, 03:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi Peter,
Thanks very much for the help. I rang Acoustica in Sydney and they have the High Density White Batts which look like they should do the trick for the screen wall and surrounds.
Appreciate the tip!
Greg

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post #33 of 1009 Old 07-08-2010, 04:04 AM
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no worries, but you can add that stuff later - how're you going with the floor?

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post #34 of 1009 Old 07-08-2010, 04:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi Peter,

Have not made the call to Embleton yet. Not sure if you picked it up but I am doing a double floor with Green Glue applied. I am hoping that will be sufficient. I was hoping originally to fill the stage with sand before placing the Danleys but that will not be an option now that the theatre has been moved upstairs. May need to talk to Embleton about some type of anti-vibration matting to place under the subs.

How's that kennel going?

By the way, I worked at the Blue Gum for 7 years throughout uni and afterwards. Great little pub!

PS I am sitting here watching Flight of the Phoenix on my LG plasma through the pathetic built in speakers. Having serious system envy for all those finished their build! Just finished watching Legion. Not bad, but pretty cornball. OK, it was bad..... but in a kind of 'From Dusk till Dawn style. But without the style!

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post #35 of 1009 Old 07-08-2010, 05:16 AM
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Nice project, cant wait to see how it progresses. Your room is roughly the same size as ours (still framing) so it will be interesting to see how well it all works out when you start building.
We opted for two rows of three seats, and a 12' wide 2.35 screen, which puts our first row back ~13 feet. For some reason, we just couldn't get two rows of four seats to fit (we do have basement columns to deal with on one side).
Due to a change in gear, we will have to move our front wall in a bit, to accommodate Klipsch KL speakers. The Niles are interesting....hadn't seen those around here.
Without running any numbers, my first impression was that your first seating row was fairly close to your screen. Have you checked your layout?

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post #36 of 1009 Old 07-08-2010, 06:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi Teeg,

Thanks for your comments and welcome. I appreciate you dropping by and your feedback. I think that we have a few constants with the build. Firstly, I wanted a truly immersive screen size. Secondly, I wanted at least 6-8 seats. Thirdly, I wanted some awesome sound with great impact. Fourthly, I wanted as much of that sound to stay within the room so that I can stay married and my neighbours don't chase us out of the neighbourhood.

I am doing everything I can to plan out the room, given the equipment that I have and the parameters I have to work within. I think that the screen will end up being one of the last things to finalise. I have bought enough material for a 150 inch dia 2.37 screen, but I am thinking that I will probably be closer to the 135 inch dia. This is due to a lack of depth in the room and also the use of an A-Lens, which will give me pincushioning if I go much bigger. I am more of a 'front of the theater' kinda guy whereas my wife likes sitting further back. I think that the front row will be great for me and the rear row is better for the wife and other normal people!

Please feel free to comment on any aspect of the build. I am open to all ideas at this stage. Feel free to jump in and fire away. I have already received some great info from the forum but I am really looking to compile as much expertise as I can before I start building the room.

I was interested in getting the Klipsch KL650 speakers. It's a long and drawn out story about a supplier who I won't name here. In any case, the Niles were recommended to me and although I don't think they will be quite as 'dynamic' as the Klipsch speakers, they should be fine. Wish you the best with your build.

Thanks

Greg

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post #37 of 1009 Old 07-08-2010, 08:45 AM
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I expect to make quite a few changes as we go along, and our screen size could very well wind up smaller as well. Our basement theater was originally going to be my audio room; I am a two-channel audiophile and was building a dedicated music room when the family voted (?) to convert it to a HT. As such, we have framing and soffit plans, but the rest is basically TBD as we go along.
We did, just for kicks, pick up the seats, Coastar Pavillions. Two curved rows of three in red. Having the seats 'in hand' let us do the rest of the layout in actual measurements, such as designing the rear riser and front stage, etc.
I also purchased one of each speaker, again, to take actual measurements from. The Klipsch KLs are bigger than I thought and likely cannot be built into our front wall. We are currently researching inwalls for the front.
I purchased a JL F113 sub, which also is too deep to be concealed in our front wall, however I ran this unit in our upstairs audio room and was so impressed with its performance, that it absolutely has to stay, even if the wall has to be re-designed to accommodate it.
Every day we do something.....some days more than others, but it slowly adds up to progress. Just gotta keep building...

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post #38 of 1009 Old 07-08-2010, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dingaling2004 View Post

Have not made the call to Embleton yet. Not sure if you picked it up but I am doing a double floor with Green Glue applied. I am hoping that will be sufficient.

Howdy,

I'm no expert, but IMO, flanking is the number one cause of issues regarding soundproofing. GG on the floor will "help", but I dont think it'll "work", you need to isolate it.

How much headroom have you got?

One thing that Ultrafonic recommend is building a raised floor that sits on 2x4 that sits on shearflex, pack with insulation and then put your two layers of floor and GG on that - then you bring your walls down to meet that. Now I dont like this approach, but it might work. If it were me I'd want a mechanical isolation of the entire floor area - Ted's website might have something www.soundproofingcompany.com

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post #39 of 1009 Old 07-08-2010, 09:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi Peter, thanks for the mail. Our ceiling is 8 feet high. Was looking to increase the height but it added 3k just for the one room. I can see the logic in your post, with the second level of isolation and airspace. May need to price that up to see how it stacks up. How much was the embleton product from memory?
Cheers
Greg.
Ps looks like a gloomy weekend. Good for some more research although tomorrow is my Son's third birthday. Will be a nice family get together.

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post #40 of 1009 Old 07-08-2010, 10:47 PM
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Bah! cursed weather, how the hell am I supposed to do any work outside...stupid kennel, its ticking me off now....got some ramps to make for the little critters, perhaps that - mates Bucks tomorrow.....going to be messy

Right, so Shearflex is about 35 bucks a "sheet" (square bit of rubber) for 300x300. You cut it into 3 stips (they do this for you) of about 100mm and then you can cut those into pads and you space the pads every 400 of something - I just lined the entire room with it, unnecessary but simpler for me

I reckon it'd cost you say $400 plus the 2x4 - you just staple it onto the 2x4

Now they (Ultrafonic) reckon this works, I dont know and but I do know Dennis looked at a diagram like this and turned his nose up at it....he likes acoustik mat, which I cant find here


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post #41 of 1009 Old 07-09-2010, 05:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi Teeg,

When I started looking at speakers, I was going for the Klipsch KL6504 in wall speakers x 3 for the front sound stage. Details at:

http://www.klipsch.com/na-en/news/ph...4-thx-details/

After posting this, I was told by Forum members in the Klipsch owners room that my volume levels would be nowhere near where I wanted and that I should look at the KL-650 THX LCR speakers. I got to chatting to Tony123 on the forum (Twinseltown Thread) and he had fantastic things to say about these speakers. However, I ran into supply problems and the supplier turned out to be 'not someone who I would recommend on here..." so I bit the bullet and bought the Niles, which were available on short delivery and at a pretty good price. You may like to think about the purchase of inwalls if reference level volume is something that you are chasing. If you are a dedicated 2ch listener, I think you will be much happier with cabinets. But, horses for courses. I know that my compromise is losing 2 feet of room depth by having the false wall to accommodate the speakers.
Hope that things go well for you. I am at that frustrating stage whereby I just want our house build to start so that I can start getting things together for the HT build. I have been slowly amassing gear and tools so I am hoping that I will see some home progress soon.
Take it easy,
Greg

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post #42 of 1009 Old 07-09-2010, 07:58 AM
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Greg-

I've personally sat in on a demo of a theater using the Klipsch THX Ultra2 speaker system and it was phenomenal. The Klipsch subs did not seem to keep up with the rest of the system and even the owner suggested the LFE was a bit lacking. I'll definitely go with the 650's as long as we can make them physically fit. It could be that we will use 650's built into columns on the side of the screen (along with the two subs) and an inwall center behind the screen.

Or something like that......its kinda a 'design as you go' project.

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post #43 of 1009 Old 07-09-2010, 03:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi Teeg, a design as you go project.... Is there any other kind???? I think you can plan and plan and plan these things and then you just get thrown a curly one. I guess that I am lucky as this is a new build I don't have to consider knocking down walls, HVAC issues, etc. The whole acoustics side of thing has been considerably more time consuming (and expensive!) that I had ever thought possible and there will still be room for improvement on what I have in mind.

I guess at some point you need to just take a breather, take stock of what you want to achieve (and how much money that you have) and then push on with what is achievable.

Have a great weekend.
Greg

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post #44 of 1009 Old 07-14-2010, 05:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi everyone, just wanted to ask a question regarding ceiling colors. Think that I probably know the answer but here goes... The ht will be fully covered, both ceiling and walls, with acoustically transparent fabric. This is similar to your GOM. I have chosen a dark purple color (aubergine) for the three walls, black for the false wall and originally was going to do the purple for the ceiling. The fabric shop is helping out on price so even though I am a few months off needing fabric I thought I would get some on order. So which would be better for the ceiling.... Black or dark purple? I don't want to close the room in too much but then I also want the best screen contrast I can get by cutting reflected light. Would welcome feedback on this one. what did you guys do?
Thanks muchly
Greg.

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post #45 of 1009 Old 07-15-2010, 04:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Any feedback guys...surely there must be some people who hate the color purple enough to write!

Was probably going to go black, but hoping others might have some feedback

Thanks

Greg

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post #46 of 1009 Old 07-15-2010, 04:36 AM
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Mate - I'd do black in your instance

Thought any more about the floor?

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post #47 of 1009 Old 07-15-2010, 05:06 AM
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black


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post #48 of 1009 Old 07-15-2010, 02:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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black

Thanks Smakovits. That was my thought as well. Appreciate your response. Greg. Going to get my fabric on order on Mon or Tuesday. Every penny saved helps!

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post #49 of 1009 Old 07-15-2010, 02:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Mate - I'd do black in your instance

Thought any more about the floor?

Hi there Peter, how you doing? I have a call to embleton pencilled into the diary for today to get some floor isolation solutions. I will let you know how I get on.

Cheers

Greg

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post #50 of 1009 Old 07-18-2010, 03:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi there Peter,
Had a chat with Bob from Embleton about soundproofing the floor. I explained what I was doing, in terms of Double Floor, GG, Whisper clips on walls and ceiling and double door. He said that a good cheap fix would really just be to isolate the subs, which will be sitting on the stage. Grand total for 8 x vibrations mounts: $64.00.

He seems to think that if I can take any direct vibration from the subs and isolate it that way, it should prove very effective in light of my other isolation measures. I was most surprised (pleasantly for once) about the small amount of money required to achieve this. I think that I will be using some R3.5 insulation or sound batts in the sub-floor cavity just to give me an extra layer.

Again, I think that this is something that I can sort out when the room is almost finished. Before I carpet I will install the audio section and see how I go at high volumes. If I need more, I can do it then.

Let me know what you think. You were right...they were very helpful.

Cheers

Greg

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post #51 of 1009 Old 07-18-2010, 03:58 AM
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erh, not sold on the idea - its not the vibration of the subs, is the pressure they create on the floor, isolated or not, you cant isolate a bass wave, thats the problem....still I guess Emlbelton do this for a living....still......I want ther whole floor isolated - PM Ted White and see what he thinks perhaps

what about some shearflex on the floor joists?

I'd have thought something like this was in order:


http://www.soundproofingcompany.com/...ist_isolators/

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post #52 of 1009 Old 07-18-2010, 04:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dingaling2004 View Post

I have chosen a dark purple color (aubergine) for the three walls, black for the false wall and originally was going to do the purple for the ceiling. The fabric shop is helping out on price so even though I am a few months off needing fabric I thought I would get some on order. So which would be better for the ceiling.... Black or dark purple? I don't want to close the room in too much but then I also want the best screen contrast I can get by cutting reflected light. Would welcome feedback on this one. what did you guys do?
Thanks muchly
Greg.

I would go for black on the ceiling. I like purple, but not dark purple. When you go away from grays and blacks you will get whatever color of the surfaces of the room reflected back onto the screen. So, the screen will have some purplish hue to it on brighter scenes. I'm not sure how significant the effect is as I'm not an expert. There are obviously high end theaters with colored walls, but that is probably a compromise for looks. The projector can be calibrated to get most of the wall hue out, so I wouldn't go nuts thinking about it if you really want purple.

You might also want to consider what Rich did in his theater: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1254505

He has lighter colored walls for everyday use and then can draw dark curtains over the walls. So, you could go lighter purple or any other color you want so that it doesn't look so small/dark. Then before the movie starts, just pull the black curtains over the wall and you have your dark movie cave.

Current HT: HTPC-->Epson 5010 projector-->135" screen, BFM TLAHs x7 & THT

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post #53 of 1009 Old 07-19-2010, 04:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi there Andreas,
Thanks for the reply and the link. I read right through the thread and it was really interesting. I can relate to his hallway!
With regards to window treatments, I am going to block them in with sound plugs and fabric over the wall entirely. So, there will be no drapes involved.
I am ordering the black material for the ceiling and screen wall and purple around. The benefit of using the fabricmate track is that I can change the room if the mood takes me without weeks of stapling.
Thanks very much. BTW, how's that sub build going?
Greg

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post #54 of 1009 Old 07-19-2010, 04:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi Peter,
My instincts tell me the same, but that was the advice I was given by Bob. I will drop Ted a PM and ask the question, unless he picks up on the thread first.
Thanks again....
Greg

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post #55 of 1009 Old 07-19-2010, 07:55 PM
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Hey there Greg! Been reading along but haven't had a helpful thing to add. Still don't, so I'll just cause trouble!

Some random thoughts:

I agree with your concept of "immersiveness". You need to build that screen as large as you can. If it causes issue, you can always mask it down smaller. Hard to add some to it if you error on the small side though.

I like black for the ceiling. Did you order it?

If you haven't ordered fabricmate yet, you can save a buck and buy a pnuematic stapler. I've got one, and it will make quick work of stapling. Nothing to be afraid of.

And, oh yeah, Happy Birthday to Thomas! Sorry I'm late.

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post #56 of 1009 Old 07-19-2010, 08:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dingaling2004 View Post

Hi there Andreas,
Thanks for the reply and the link. I read right through the thread and it was really interesting. I can relate to his hallway!
With regards to window treatments, I am going to block them in with sound plugs and fabric over the wall entirely. So, there will be no drapes involved.

The idea is to have drapes over the wall, not the windows. It changes the wall color from light to black.

Quote:


I am ordering the black material for the ceiling and screen wall and purple around. The benefit of using the fabricmate track is that I can change the room if the mood takes me without weeks of stapling.

Yes, that fabricmate track looks really nice. It will still take you a day or two as opposed to 20 seconds for the drapes. The fabricmate is the way to go for frames if you want to save a lot of time.
Quote:


Thanks very much. BTW, how's that sub build going?
Greg

The sub has been done for quite some time (a month?). I didn't do a build thread, but have posted some comments about it in others' threads. It has huge amounts of output. It feels like the house is falling down. It is super clean too. I can't say enough good things about it. The Danleys have great reviews too, so I'm sure you will be very happy. Now we both need rooms to put them in!

Current HT: HTPC-->Epson 5010 projector-->135" screen, BFM TLAHs x7 & THT

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post #57 of 1009 Old 07-20-2010, 08:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi Ted,

Thanks for the message. I am just a bit concerned about the whole floor isolation issue in the room. I am doing a double skin floor with Green Glue layer and also carpet and rubber underlay. However, I am not sure if this will be sufficient to adequately reduce the amount of sound leaking through the subfloor and into the garage or throughout the rest of the home.

A local supplier here has just advised that I need to isolate the subs off the floor, but my feeling (and those of others here) is that 4 anti-vibration mounts screwed to the bottom of each Danley DTS-10 will do little to reduce the low frequencies in the room from these speakers and also the front sound stage.

With the cost of the theatre rapidly approaching the 'Not one more cent' point with the wife, I am really after the most economical way to reduce sound escaping the room through the floor. All of the walls and the ceiling will be DD and GG with Whisper Clips. However, the floor is just double floor skin with GG.

Could I get away with simply isolating the stage with under stud pads or do I need to undertake more radical isolation measures?

Thanks for your help.

Greg

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post #58 of 1009 Old 07-21-2010, 04:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks very much Andreas. Ordering my room material tomorrow with Black roof.

Really appreciate your comments and assistance

Greg

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post #59 of 1009 Old 07-21-2010, 04:48 AM
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Sure, thank everyone else but me....see, this is why I don't post.

Do you have any photos that you've used for inspiration? I can tell where you're heading with room layout (thanks to those beautiful renderings), but I can't get a handle on the look of the room? details? Do you have a photo that might represent the character you're shooting for?

The "Twinseltown" Theater

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post #60 of 1009 Old 07-21-2010, 05:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tony123 View Post

Sure, thank everyone else but me....see, this is why I don't post.

Do you have any photos that you've used for inspiration? I can tell where you're heading with room layout (thanks to those beautiful renderings), but I can't get a handle on the look of the room? details? Do you have a photo that might represent the character you're shooting for?

Well hello there Tony, let's just be done with it. Post some photos of your room, I will tell you that absolutely your build is my inspiration and we can all get on with it. Bloody trouble making southerner! Actually mate you raise a really good point. I can't pin my inspiration down to any one build. I would say that Gpower and his Hana Hou build with fabric frames put me down the path for fabric lining. Truth be known Tony, you have had- more of a (detrimental) impact on my finances than anyone else here. If you ever come to stay let me cook.... I think my wife wants you away for good!
Chat soon.
Greg.

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