Star Ceilings... Painted or Fiber optics? - Page 28 - AVS Forum
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post #811 of 829 Old 11-08-2014, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by NightSkyMurals View Post
<b>Star Ceiling – Fiber optics vs Painted</b><br><br>
A star ceiling is a definite plus for any home theater or bedroom... but what is the best way to go? Should you install Fiber Optics or have the ceiling painted (either by yourself or by a professional)? Well, that depends...<br><br><i>(Mural by Night Sky Murals. Black lights help this painted mural shine brighter when there is light in the room)</i><br><img alt="" src="http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/7154/mountaintheatre2.jpg" style="border:0px solid;"><br><br>
(This home theater is in California and was really fun to do. The owner built the soffit, on an angle, for the black lights and the stars to show up throughout the movie. I have a special mixture of paint that I use in home theaters for those who want to have bright stars during the movie. Otherwise, with the lights off... the theater looks like the ceiling has been removed and the stars are more subtle.)<br><br><br>
(A Fiber Optic Ceiling with black lights around the edge for looks only)<br><img alt="" src="http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/33/starceiling1.jpg" style="border:0px solid;"><br><br><br>
Of course my view is going to be a little biased... but I will try to be fair to all three options.<br><br><b><span style="text-decoration:underline;">First, lets go over Fiber optics.</span></b><br><br>
They are great to view in almost any light. This is a big “pro” when compared to a painted ceiling. A painted mural acts just like a real night sky and disappears in the light. Fiber optics can still be visible in the light.<br><br>
When there are lights off in the room... the fiber optics are visible and beautiful. When the lights are on... they are still visible and beautiful. And, you can even make them twinkle.<br><br><br><b><span style="text-decoration:underline;">But, there are some downsides to fiber optics too... The "Cons"</span></b><br><br>
* They are pricey<br><br>
* They require a lot of extra work to have them installed.<br><br>
* Holes need to be drilled.<br><br>
* Wires need to be run.<br><br>
* If there is no crawl space above the ceiling... then panels need to be prepared, covered, wired and<br>
installed.<br><br>
* If you don't want to do all of the work yourself.. then you would need to hire someone to do it for<br>
you and they may not have much of a clue what to do.<br><br>
* You usually get only about 1/10th of the number of stars that a painted mural gives you.<br><br>
* The holes drilled for the fibers are visible.<br><br>
* One, maybe two, different sizes of stars.<br><br>
* Scheduling a few days, to a week, for it to be installed.<br><br>
But, they ARE nice and the big advantage is that you can see the stars at any time you want basically.<br><br><br><b>Now... what about the painted night sky murals... DIY and professionally installed?</b><br><br><br>
Well, here is where I can speak with more authority.<br><br>
Let's start with the <b>DIY option</b>. This option can be both good and bad. Bad if you have no talent as an artist and you just throw up some paint with a paint brush. (I have seen, and painted over, many a ceiling where the owner, or their friend, tried to paint the night sky with glow-in-the-dark paint) It looks really easy, but there are definitely some techniques that need to be learned first.<br><br>
But, if you or a friend are an artist and you want to freehand it... then go for it. And remember... you can always add more stars later if needed. Don't try to go too crazy at first. Paint, step back and look... and then paint some more.<br><br>
There are also stencil kits that you can purchase on the Internet. Out of the 4 or 5 different stencils that I have tried out... there is one that is much better than the rest, and it isn't even the most expensive. So, do your due diligence or email me and I will steer you in the right direction. If you have more than one or two rooms to paint... you will be sore after painting with the stencil. Just sayin.<br><br><br><b><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Pros for the DIY option:</span></b><br><br>
* Cheapest method to get a star mural on your ceiling.<br><br>
* Usually slightly nicer than the plastic stars.<br><br>
* You can paint over it if it looks ugly and then try again or call a professional.<br><br>
* You can claim credit for having painted it.<br><br>
* If you have to tear out part of your ceiling to fix something up in there... then you can repaint that<br>
area yourself.<br><br><br><b><span style="text-decoration:underline;">The "Cons" to the DIY option:</span></b><br><br>
* Sore neck and back<br><br>
* It's very easy to create a very ugly mural if you aren't careful.<br><br>
* It isn't nearly as nice as one done by a professional (at least the better ones)<br><br>
* More unnecessary work to perform where you aren't already proficient.<br><br>
* It is only slightly nicer than the plastic stars.<br><br>
* It's frustrating.<br><br>
* You'll probably glow in the dark for a few days from the paint that gets on you.<br><br><br>
Now.. <b><span style="text-decoration:underline;">”The Professional Option”</span></b>. Are they really that expensive? Here's the quick and easy answer... Some are. Some aren't. And, by the way, I am. (But, I am a lot less than having fiber optics installed)<br><br>
A quick word about <i>“Professionals”</i> here. There are many people/companies that will teach others how to paint a star mural. One problem is that most of them have never even painted one themselves. Usually they are either companies who want to sell their glow paint (so they teach you a method which creates a need for their paint, and they usually are terrible techniques)... or they are just lazy people who see a good idea and try to capitalize on someone elses success by marketing a “Star-Painting Business Kit” themselves. And, as a result, the people they “train” have learned really bad techniques from these non-skilled, snake oil salesmen. So you want to be careful who you hire.<br><br><br><b><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Here are two examples.</span></b><br><br><i>This first picture is of a mural that was done by one of the popular companies painting and teaching others to paint these murals. Please don't ask who did this because I won't name them. I show it only to make the point that you need to check around. This picture was taken with a black light on because they probably didn't have a camera with a long shutter exposure. Thus, the background color. BTW... the picture at the beginning of this thread is of one of my murals with black lights on too.</i><br><br>
(Another <b>unknown</b> "Professional's" mural)<br><img alt="" src="http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/1391/snightsky.jpg" style="border:0px solid;"><br><br><br><b>This next picture is of a mural that I painted on a really nice ceiling with big beams in it.*</b><br><br><br>
(Mural by Night Sky Murals)<br><img alt="" src="http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/3719/pcceilingnightskysm.jpg" style="border:0px solid;"><br><br><br>
Having said that... I have seen some work done by other artists that really surprised me because the murals they painted were actually really nice. They were much better than I had expected them to be after hearing who they'd learned from. But, these murals were painted by people who were already muralists before they decided to add star mural ceilings to their portfolio.<br><br>
So please be careful when hiring an artist and try to see their work first... or at least have them drop by with, or send you a sample of their work that you can look at. I mean... do you really want to spend all that time decorating your theater room... only to have an amateur come in and destroy your ceiling? There are good artists out there... but you need to search to find them.<br><br>
As for the cost... You can find people who will throw some paint up on your ceiling for anywhere from $1 to $4 per square foot. My prices start at $6 per sq. ft... and can go as high as $12 per sq. ft. depending on the detail and preparation before I can paint. I'm more expensive than most, but I am fair and the value that you get, I think, comes out to be a better deal.<br><br><br><b><span style="text-decoration:underline;">OK... here are the “Pros” to having a professional paint the mural:</span></b><br><br>
* The look is Incredible! (When done right by a true professional)<br><br>
* Painted night sky murals blow fiber optics away in the dark. (Fiber optics excel in lighted areas) But for<br>
realism... there is no comparison to a painted mural.<br><br>
* You can have a realistic looking Milky Way in your mural, that has a cloudy look to it and has thousands<br>
and thousands of tiny little stars.<br><br>
* You can have other deep space objects and the moon added in. (I suggest only having a crescent moon<br>
painted in... because I try to make the mural look like a night sky that you would see from a remote<br>
location on earth. Galaxies and Nebula aren't really visible with the naked eye from earth) But, it is<br>
possible to have all those things with a painted mural.<br><br>
* You can create the illusion of mountains surrounding the room when the mural is brought down the<br>
walls.<br><br>
* Ceiling fans and heat registers can be painted too... so they don't become black holes when the<br>
room is dark.<br><br>
* If you feed some professional painters some cookie dough (ahem!) they might even throw in a<br>
shooting star or two.<br><br>
* Virtually invisible in the light.<br><br>
* Thousands of stars in the mural... compared to hundreds with fiber optics and DIY options.<br><br>
* 10 to 15 different sized stars in the murals. This is what creates an incredible 3D look.<br><br>
* Paint (a good muralist should have this paint) will glow for up to 12 hours (the smaller stars will *<br>
fade in about 3 to 4... and the larger stars will glow longer).<br><br>
* The paint can be made to fluoresce under a black light for viewing during a movie. Not as bright as<br>
fiber optics, but more natural looking.<br><br>
* The mural actually changes the longer the lights are off. The mural will look one way when the lights<br>
are first turned out... and totally different 3 hours later.<br><br>
* The stars seem to twinkle... naturally. Something about the paint and the cones and rods in your eyes<br>
will have you swearing that the stars are really twinkling.<br><br>
* No smell.<br><br>
* Can be painted on most finishes<br><br>
* Usually done in a day.<br><br>
* No need for a crawl space in your ceiling for the mural to be painted. Nor is there the need to add a<br>
false ceiling. You regular ceiling is just fine.<br><br>
* Invisible in the light... just like the real night sky. Your room looks like it always has in the light.<br><br><br><b><span style="text-decoration:underline;">The ”Cons” to having a painted mural:</span></b><br><br>
* The cost can get up there, but usually less than fiber optics.<br><br>
* You need to make cookie dough for some artists. :-)<br><br>
* You need a fairly dark room for the mural to be seen as intended.<br><br>
* You need a good fluorescent light source to charge the paint for 10 minutes (Still, plugging in a<br>
black light or two is easier than wiring for fiber optics).<br><br>
* You could get a bad professional (Do your due-diligence)<br><br>
* Invisible in the light. This is a “Con” only if you want then to be visible in the light.<br><br><br><br><i>Here is what the painted murals look like in the light and in the dark. Again, we do have a special paint (and others might have something too) that will allow the stars to glow under a black light in a semi-lit room.</i><br><br><img alt="" src="http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/6052/daynightt.jpg" style="border:0px solid;"><br><br><br><br>
OK, I tried to give a fair overview of some different options for a star ceiling. But, whatever option you choose... get a star ceiling done. They are so incredibly relaxing and romantic. You've designed everything for the light... do this one thing for the dark. You will be glad you did.<br><br>
If you have a day-sky (blue sky and clouds) painted on the ceiling... then get a night sky painted on top of that. When the lights are on, the day-sky will be visible. When the lights go out... the night sky will appear. It's very cool!<br><br>
OK, I have gotten many questions about the murals from people who are building home theaters... and home theaters are probably my number one area to paint in.<br><br>
Please ask any questions that you have and I will try to answer them for you.<br><br>
If you are in the building stages.. and can still add in wiring to power lights... I can tell you where you should have them placed. If you can still add a soffit around the top... I can give you good ideas about how to build that too.<br><br>
So, if you are considering stars in your ceiling.. ask away and I will try to help you out.
Id say fiber optics all the way
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post #812 of 829 Old 11-09-2014, 08:46 AM
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Ceiling color

What color have people found to be the best color and brand for painting the ceiling in preparation of eventually painting a night sky mural. Currently I am looking at Benjamin Moore lead grey.
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post #813 of 829 Old 11-10-2014, 08:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey Xzener,

The Ursa Major stencils are still a good stencil and will get a person a nice, basic night sky. But, I understand... they can be a little difficult to handle by yourself. But, compared to the other stencils available (except the Night Sky Murals stencil)... they are a good choice, and much less than mine. So, a good option for someone at the end of a build, who is tapped out.

There are a couple of ways that they can be put up. First is similar to the Ursa Major stencil... and that is with putty (which you'll get in your kit), if you don't want to put holes in your ceiling. Another way would be to use push pins. For others who go with the Ursa Major stencil, as well, if you don't mind a few small holes in your ceiling... then push pins see the easiest way to go.

Yes, you will have enough paint to easily paint two rooms (depending on the size of each room and how well a person follows instructions). I know that you will be fine... because I have seen your instruction-following-skills first hand after you did your other mural.

As for Winter/Sumer constellations... here's the deal. I decided to do something different than other stencils available, and do something that I have been doing the past few years when I paint the murals. I have decided to include popular constellations (that most people would recognize) as opposed to constellations that will be accurate to a certain season. I found that most of the constellations for a certain date were hard to recognize and most people didn't care about a certain date, after a couple of days anyway. So, including recognizable constellations seemed to be better, long term, than supplying little known, or seen constellations. Does that make sense?

So, yours will be coming with Cassiopeia, Leo and the Big and Little Dippers. Also, as opposed to the Ursa Major stencil... these will be larger, and will more closely resemble the real thing.

I think I answered these in another email to you, after you wrote this post... but thought I'd answer them here too, for others who may have the same questions.

I'm still going to try and get out your way to check up on you to make sure you followed instructions... and enjoy another ribeye with you!

Watch for your kit later this week

Jeff



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Originally Posted by xzener View Post
Sent an email off Jeff,

I am very excited to use your stencils... The modular idea is brilliant. Ursa Major's were so difficult to put up. A couple questions...

How do you recommend sticking it to the ceiling?

Does the kit come with your paint?

Does it come with a winter/summer solstice example picture?

I CANT WAIT!!!

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post #814 of 829 Old 11-10-2014, 08:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi Snowblitzing... That has always been up to the customer and I very rarely see any shade that is always used.

I just usually suggest that people use a light color (for the mural to be more invisible in the light) and then something with a low sheen. I know that many people like to go with a flat paint, but from experience I have found flat ceilings very difficult to not mark up, for myself or for others cleaning the ceilings/walls down the road. Mario was very nice when I painted his ceiling to not freak out, but even the slightest touch will leave a streak. I have since learned to paint differently on ceilings with flat paint, but it is still difficult. And, to clean them later might be a problem. But... others may have a different opinion. I just paint dots.

So, I suggest a light color and possibly an eggshell finish. Now, having said that... I will, and do, paint on all colors. Dark colors will show off the paint more in the light, so it won't be quite as invisible, and darker colors seems to not allow my paint to glow as brightly either. They glow, but you get more of a glow on lighter colors.

I hope I didn't just confuse things more for you. I've been known to do that.

Jeff


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What color have people found to be the best color and brand for painting the ceiling in preparation of eventually painting a night sky mural. Currently I am looking at Benjamin Moore lead grey.

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post #815 of 829 Old 11-10-2014, 08:16 PM - Thread Starter
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That's a great option if you have lots of light in the room and don't care so much about realism. If that's the case... that is a perfect solution.

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Id say fiber optics all the way

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post #816 of 829 Old 11-11-2014, 07:21 PM
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Hi Snowblitzing... That has always been up to the customer and I very rarely see any shade that is always used.

I just usually suggest that people use a light color (for the mural to be more invisible in the light) and then something with a low sheen. I know that many people like to go with a flat paint, but from experience I have found flat ceilings very difficult to not mark up, for myself or for others cleaning the ceilings/walls down the road. Mario was very nice when I painted his ceiling to not freak out, but even the slightest touch will leave a streak. I have since learned to paint differently on ceilings with flat paint, but it is still difficult. And, to clean them later might be a problem. But... others may have a different opinion. I just paint dots.

So, I suggest a light color and possibly an eggshell finish. Now, having said that... I will, and do, paint on all colors. Dark colors will show off the paint more in the light, so it won't be quite as invisible, and darker colors seems to not allow my paint to glow as brightly either. They glow, but you get more of a glow on lighter colors.

I hope I didn't just confuse things more for you. I've been known to do that.

Jeff
Great advise on the eggshell, the streaks you talk about would be a real bummer later. I will start to look at colors in the eggshell. I sent you a request on a job I would like to do.
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post #817 of 829 Old 11-11-2014, 07:44 PM
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Has anyone tried the UV black light led rope light sold at aspect led.com. The price seems reasonable and I would like to use something that had a small footprint like this. Any black lights with good results I would love to hear.
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post #818 of 829 Old 11-14-2014, 01:22 PM - Thread Starter
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LED UV Strip lights

Yes, and most of the "UV Blacklight" strip, or rope lights are about as good as an incandescent bulb for charging the paint... which means they don't work. You want to find a good, honest, supplier of good quality strip lights that are in the 365nm range for them to be any good. And, if you get actual 365nm, and not 390-405nm or above.. then they should work well. Expect to pay between $30 - $50 per meter. If you can find them for around $30 per meter, then that is roughly what the WildFireFX black lights would run you for the same length. You'd want to get the strips with the most lights per square meter, and the most lights per chip (or whatever they call them). I believe they have some with 1 and others with 3 lights per chip.

I'm hoping that as they become more popular that they come down in price a little, but for now, that's what I have been able to find for strip lights that will work.

Good luck.

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Has anyone tried the UV black light led rope light sold at aspect led.com. The price seems reasonable and I would like to use something that had a small footprint like this. Any black lights with good results I would love to hear.

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post #819 of 829 Old 11-24-2014, 12:19 AM
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Ive checked out your website and read a bit of this thread. what great looking art !
I have a small ceiling to paint. Im guessing I cant afford LEDs or a professional painter. Could I hire you to consult me so that I can paint my own ceiling? It will probably end up being about 12x12 roughly.
thanks
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post #820 of 829 Old 11-24-2014, 05:33 AM
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Jeff,

I'll have to take a pic of the living room mural. We had you paint a small sky patch mural intended for the back of the theater screen. Finally put it up this weekend in a way that works for us. Didn't have any luck the first couple attempts so I kept putting off the project. Anyways it turned out great and looks really cool day or night.

Still enjoying the bedroom ceiling. THANKS!!

Jody

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post #821 of 829 Old 11-30-2014, 10:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi DrBabs...

I'd be happy to help you out in any way that I can. If it's just advice that you need I'd be happy to help you out, but I won't charge you anything for it. I do train people how to paint murals (from time to time), but that's so they can do this as a business. If you are just wanting to do yours, and I don't have to go into extreme detail on my techniques, then I'll be happy to help in any way that I can.

I also have a stencil that you can use, that it much cheaper than having me paint it... though you would miss out on having to make the room ice-cold for a day while I painted.

Why don't you shoot me an email at Jeff@NightSkyMurals.com and let me know what you have planned, and what you'd like suggestions on... and I'll try to help out however I can.

If you do email me, let me warn you that my office manager isn't helping out as much as I'd like right now, and I am overwhelmed with trying to answer emails and also planning a 5 state painting trip right now... so I might miss your email. So, if you write and I don't get back with you right away, please shoot me another, and another until I get back with you. This frustrates me, as well as those trying to reach me... but it's all I can do right now. Hopefully I can get my office help back soon.

I'll be watching for your email and questions.

Jeff



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Originally Posted by DrBabs View Post
Ive checked out your website and read a bit of this thread. what great looking art !
I have a small ceiling to paint. Im guessing I cant afford LEDs or a professional painter. Could I hire you to consult me so that I can paint my own ceiling? It will probably end up being about 12x12 roughly.
thanks

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post #822 of 829 Old 11-30-2014, 10:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Living room star mural

Hi Jody... I'd love to see a picture of your living room, with the mural!!! In fact, I'l love for you to send me one of the living room, showing the mural, and also a couple of just the cloudy sky (in the light) and one of it in the dark. I'd also love to get a good picture of it in dark room, with just enough light coming into the room to show both the clouds and the stars. I have one like that, that I took right after painting it... but it's a small file. I love the look of it when you can see both the clouds and stars!

I was just wondering, last week, if you ever got around to putting that onto the back of your retractable screen? I'd love to see what you did with it.

You back for a while now?

Jeff





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Jeff,

I'll have to take a pic of the living room mural. We had you paint a small sky patch mural intended for the back of the theater screen. Finally put it up this weekend in a way that works for us. Didn't have any luck the first couple attempts so I kept putting off the project. Anyways it turned out great and looks really cool day or night.

Still enjoying the bedroom ceiling. THANKS!!

Jody

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post #823 of 829 Old 12-02-2014, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NightSkyMurals View Post
Hi DrBabs...

I'd be happy to help you out in any way that I can. If it's just advice that you need I'd be happy to help you out, but I won't charge you anything for it. I do train people how to paint murals (from time to time), but that's so they can do this as a business. If you are just wanting to do yours, and I don't have to go into extreme detail on my techniques, then I'll be happy to help in any way that I can.

I also have a stencil that you can use, that it much cheaper than having me paint it... though you would miss out on having to make the room ice-cold for a day while I painted.

Why don't you shoot me an email at Jeff@NightSkyMurals.com and let me know what you have planned, and what you'd like suggestions on... and I'll try to help out however I can.

If you do email me, let me warn you that my office manager isn't helping out as much as I'd like right now, and I am overwhelmed with trying to answer emails and also planning a 5 state painting trip right now... so I might miss your email. So, if you write and I don't get back with you right away, please shoot me another, and another until I get back with you. This frustrates me, as well as those trying to reach me... but it's all I can do right now. Hopefully I can get my office help back soon.

I'll be watching for your email and questions.

Jeff

Jeff!

Ill shoot you an email. I want to make sure you are compensated for your expertise- whatever we work out together. Thanks for the response. Hope you had a super thanksgiving weekend with your fam.
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post #824 of 829 Old 12-05-2014, 07:10 PM
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You are correct Sondermouse, Jeff from NightSkyMurals is passionate about his work, to include the "still under development" custom stencils he so graciously allowed you to use. He has been hard at work, for YEARS, developing/designing these stencils. You make it sound like he grabbed some crumpled up newspaper, grabbed a hole punch, poked a punch of holes in the paper, rolled it up, and sent it to you. The packaging, obviously, is not complete, and do you think FedEx is going to handle a piece of packaging like that with care... NO!


If you were to even try the stencils, I assure you, those crumpled edges would have no effect on the outcome of your mural. I'm certain, when Jeff finalizes his product, the packaging will ensure the contents are not damaged upon delivery.

I, for one, am ecstatic with the outcome of these amazing stencils... By far much better quality than I've used. The instructions were very informative, and the pictures used were helpful. The putty used for sticking the stencils to the ceiling work very well. I was skeptical about the tools given for painting the stars... I thought maybe a Q-Tip might not work well, but following Jeffs instructions, the constellation stars turned out great. Also, tip of the tool for the background stars seemed a bit small... but again, the background stars turned out great too. After painting each stencil, I used a small black light, and illuminated the stencil ensuring each hole had a dab of paint within it. I admit, it took me a couple days to complete my mural... My back was sore after lemme tell you, but what a sense of accomplishment. "I" painted a NightSkyMural all by myself. A couple weeks have gone by. My theater is nearing completion, but my black lights have not been installed yet. I finally drove to Walmart and Lowes, and picked up 2 4' black light bulbs and a 4' shop fixture. I charged the ceiling for about 15min... entered the room, shut the doors, closed my eyes while unplugging the fixture... waited about 30 seconds... opened my eyes... and voila... There above my head was a spectacular mural, thousands of stars, and a few constellations. The three dimensional effect is amazing, it looks so life like, as though I'm laying in my own back yard.

Those of you who have followed this thread, know how difficult it is to capture the effect on film. Again I have tried, but again have to say it is nowhere near what the actual naked eye sees.





This was taken before I touched it up, and free-handed an Orion constellation in an area where I had room. I am very happy, and impressed with myself. I cant believe that I created this work of art. Money well spent IMO.

So Sondermouse, I got to tell you, you should have tried the $30 Stouffers Mac and Cheese...you have no idea what you're missing.

Jeff, I am honored you gave me the opportunity to be your guinea pig. I am so impressed with the work you have done so far, well done. Your product has great potential. I've given you my thoughts, opinions, and ideas to help polish the final product. Good luck with its official release to the public.

Xzener

Last edited by xzener; 12-05-2014 at 07:25 PM.
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post #825 of 829 Old 12-10-2014, 12:00 AM - Thread Starter
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I was on the east coast last week when the customer I was painting for told me about Blake's post. I couldn't believe what I read when he showed it to me.

I wasn't going to even reply... especially when I saw that Xzener had already done a better job than I could have at replying, but a couple things have really gnawed at me and I want to just clear them up because I really try hard to make sure that everyone is happy, and Blake made it seem like I didn't care at all. So, my apologies to everyone for having to deal with this... but I think a few things need clearing up.

First, this beauty from Blake's post.. "in a nutshell he stated that he wouldn't have paid the price for the stencils, hell he "wouldn't pay 50 bucks" but he is charging the customer for the potential the product has."

Here is my actual reply to him in an email I sent him. "If you are looking at the paper as the end product, I can see your point, except I wouldn't even pay $50 for the kit. But, if you would have looked at the stencil for what it would allow you to accomplish, as it has many other people already, then it is worth much more than the $190." I then followed up that email with another one just to be sure that he understood what I was telling him. This is what I wrote, "For the record... I didn't say that the stencil wasn't worth the cost, I said the materials (raw materials) weren't worth it. But, as they exist... they are."

Blake could only see the wrinkled paper... and refused to put the stencils on the ceiling and follow the instructions. Had he done that, he would have ended up with a beautiful mural. But, he couldn't get over the fact that there were wrinkles.

The next non-truth that Blake told was this... "He never offered to make things right and make me a happy customer whether is be with a new stencil or a credit. The response I got was that he has a line of people wanting them so just send them back and he would refund me. He didn't care about me as a customer and wanted to just try to acquire more."

It did take me 3 days to see his email because I was dealing with some health issues that my 91 year old father, who we are caring for, had going on at that time. But, the minute that I saw his email to me I wrote him back and the first line of that email was, "Sure, send it back and I'll refund your money." We emailed back and forth another 6 times, I believe and in 5 of those emails I told him that I was fine refunding his money. I sent him texts and emails trying to find out if he had sent the stencil back because I was about to leave on a 3 state painting trip and I wanted to be sure that it arrived before I left so that I could refund his money. It finally arrived the day I was to leave... and within 5 minutes of receiving the stencil, I had already refunded his money.

I sent him an email and text to let him know that I had refunded the money, but never heard back from him. The next thing that I heard from him was here in this thread.

So, no, it isn't true that I wasn't interested in making him happy. He just wasn't interested in allowing me to try.

That is all I will say about my experience with this, but it sure seems odd that after I tried to make him happy by telling him for over a week that I would refund his money, and explaining that if he would just try the stencil out he would see that the wrinkles didn't matter... he ran here to try to make me look bad. Interesting. Had he just tried the stencil...

You saw what Blake thought, without ever even attempting to use the stencils (because of a few wrinkles and because paper shouldn't cost $175) Now, here is am email that I got from another customer who actually DID put the stencil to use (besides Xzener who already told his story).

"Jeff,

I just wanted to write a note to tell you how much I appreciate you now offering your Night Sky Mural kits for those that aren’t able to have the work professionally done by you. I have done extensive research with all the other star kits on the market beforehand, and what you offer is FAR superior to theirs. From the detailed instructions that teach you how to achieve that lifelike 3D look, to the customer service you offered if I had any questions along the way. To me having a great product is extremely important, but equally important is the customer service. It is clear that your goal isn’t just to sell these kits; it’s to have people be successful and have a gorgeous night sky.

The mural I just completed was for my son’s room and he had no idea what to expect, in fact none of the family did. I think that in their minds I was just going to paint some “cheesy” glow in the dark stars on the ceiling. Well, this mural is anything but that, and their reactions were all the proof that I needed.

I kept “peeking eyes” away from this project and I made the family wait until the reveal. That night for the reveal, my son lay down on his bed and waited for me to tell him to open his eyes. After having to wait a few days, the anticipation was almost too much for him. He waited. Finally I told him to open his eyes.

These are his exact words… “Dad this is so much better than anything I’d hoped for, I never thought it would look so real”. “It’s like you took the roof and ceiling off my room”. “I love this so much, it feels just like I am up North at the Cabin”.

Anybody that has had that experience of seeing that gorgeous and clear, starlit, night sky that you can only get by going far, far away from any city lights knows what he meant, and that was all I needed to hear to know that I’d done a good job and I owe it all to you Jeff.

Every night since then, the whole family crowds onto my son’s bed and we just stare at our Night Sky. The way they seem to twinkle just blows our minds. I swear it looks so real that my kids are waiting to see a shooting star.

Looking back, now, makes me laugh. When I first told my wife that I wanted to do this, she questioned if this was appropriate for a 13 year old’s room. She thought it might be more appropriate for a 5 or 6 year old. Well, she now says that she would be ok with me doing a night sky in every room in the house.

We are all blown away here because I am by no means an artist, but after using your Night Sky Mural kit, one would sure think I was. Your kit is so much more than just rolling paint over a stencil, but just about as easy. Thanks a million, Jeff! This kit was worth every penny.
Now on to the next room!!!"


Again, I am sorry for this post... but I hope that you will be OK with me trying to correct some mis-representations.

Jeff

Night Sky Murals

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post #826 of 829 Old 12-11-2014, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Sondermouse View Post
New here but given that I found out about the Night Sky Stencils here I figured this would be a good spot to give my feedback to all those who are curious.

When I first contacted Jeff he came off as the type of guy who put a lot of passion into his work and the product he created. We talked for a few days on which route I wanted to take such as buy a pre-painted canvas, just the paint or these new stencils he was having made. The stencils were offered at a discounted cost of $190 vs the $270(?) it would be when they are marketed. He stated that he was in contact with a factory and once they got in he would ship me out my set minus the roof putty since he was out.

The package arrived super fast and once I opened it I was unimpressed. Upon looking further the stencils are just paper with holes punched out and mine arrived quiet crumpled on the ends. Plus the thought of spending that much money on some paper seemed silly. I contacted Jeff and in a nutshell he stated that he wouldn't have paid the price for the stencils, hell he "wouldn't pay 50 bucks" but he is charging the customer for the potential the product has. That is like Stouffers charging $30 for a plate of mac and cheese that's pictured to be restaurant quality. In regards to the damage he stated that it was expected with the packaging he uses and that once he gets his new packaging the price will go up to accommodate a product so it does't arrived ruined.

He never offered to make things right and make me a happy customer whether is be with a new stencil or a credit. The response I got was that he has a line of people wanting them so just send them back and he would refund me. He didn't care about me as a customer and wanted to just try to acquire more. This left a sour taste in my mouth as he likely is going to send that same damaged product back out.

Blake
[QUOTE=Sondermouse;29539330]

"When I first contacted Jeff he came off as the type of guy who put a lot of passion into his work and the product he created."

Blake,

You got the first part right---Jeff is definitely that type of guy. If you had actually tried the product, you're likely to have gotten results similar to those of Xzener. As for the charge you made below:

"He never offered to make things right and make me a happy customer whether is be with a new stencil or a credit. The response I got was that he has a line of people wanting them so just send them back and he would refund me. He didn't care about me as a customer and wanted to just try to acquire more. This left a sour taste in my mouth as he likely is going to send that same damaged product back out."


Jeff obviously attempted to refund your money as promptly as possible, even though you had not even tried to use the product as designed and per included instructions. I'm left wondering what your expectations really are.

Tom


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Last edited by Tom Hilton; 12-11-2014 at 10:45 AM. Reason: spelling
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post #827 of 829 Old 12-14-2014, 02:29 PM
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I can say Jeff has always been very helpful here. I didn't use Jeff to paint my ceiling but we did used his paint. And he was still offering input and guidance. My tiny little sell was far less than the money we are talking here and he still was very gracious towards me and my muralist. I'd gladly recommend Jeff!
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post #828 of 829 Unread Yesterday, 02:09 PM
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bickering removed.

Walking the fine line between jaw-dropping and a plain ol' yawn.
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post #829 of 829 Unread Today, 10:17 AM
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bickering removed.
Thank you!

AVS community,

Jeff and I talked and there was a miss understanding on my part. I apologize to all that had to read my ramblings!

Blake
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