Star Ceilings... Painted or Fiber optics? - Page 4 - AVS Forum

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Dedicated Theater Design & Construction

FuzzyZipperbaum's Avatar FuzzyZipperbaum
02:36 PM Liked: 10
post #91 of 832
07-17-2010 | Posts: 103
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What is the best surface to paint a sky mural on? It would seem that smooth would be the best but does knock down or another surface add depth and help more?
Mark P's Avatar Mark P
02:45 PM Liked: 30
post #92 of 832
07-17-2010 | Posts: 1,773
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NightSkyMurals View Post

LOL... It's probably the way I should be painting them these days too. WHenever I paint a ceiling... I have the hardest time moving for about a week afterwards. Aging is sometimes not so graceful. :-)

After a lot of trial and error... I have found that the Aqua and Blue are the best two colors to use. The white is very similar to the aqua but doesn't glow for as long or as bright. The Aqua is brighter than the blue, so I use mostly Aqua in my murals. Plus the pigments are lighter (in the light) and make my paint more invisible on the ceiling when there is light on.

I add a lot more pigments to my paint than normal and my medium is pretty thick. But, it is water based so you could just add water to it to thin it down to work in your airbrush. I have sold it to airbrush painters in the past... and they didn't seem to have any problems.





Sure, I paint on 8' ceilings all the time. Higher ceilings are obviously a little better, but once you are sitting down an 8' ceiling works fine. I have painted 7 foot ceilings too.

Can you PM me your contact info? Hopefully Ph#

One other thing, sounds strange but.........are these stars bright enough to "wash out" the screen, both screens I have take little to no light to wash out the blacks
NightSkyMurals's Avatar NightSkyMurals
06:42 PM Liked: 28
post #93 of 832
07-17-2010 | Posts: 502
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FuzzyZipperbaum View Post

What is the best surface to paint a sky mural on? It would seem that smooth would be the best but does knock down or another surface add depth and help more?


Good question.

Here's the deal... The smooth ceilings are the easiest to paint on, but there is also more of a chance to see some of the bumps where the largest stars are. Look back at the samples that were posted on the previous page.

I have painted on many smooth surfaces and love the ease... but again, textured ceilings are better for the paint. They don't really add any depth to the mural, but the texture makes it really hard to see the bumps.

So, knock down, popcorn... or anything that makes the surface not smooth is great. But.... again, I have painted many smooth ceilings. They are easier to paint on but take a little longer too.
NightSkyMurals's Avatar NightSkyMurals
06:49 PM Liked: 28
post #94 of 832
07-17-2010 | Posts: 502
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark P View Post

Can you PM me your contact info? Hopefully Ph#

One other thing, sounds strange but.........are these stars bright enough to "wash out" the screen, both screens I have take little to no light to wash out the blacks

Yes, I will send you my info.

About the stars washing out your screens. No, it will be the stars that wash out when the movie is playing. The glow of the stars is very subtle... and just like the real stars, they will fade away when there is light in the room.
NightSkyMurals's Avatar NightSkyMurals
11:44 PM Liked: 28
post #95 of 832
07-17-2010 | Posts: 502
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OK... I put up the "Poll" asking about a DIY kit, as you guys suggested earlier. If you think a DIY kit for painting a star ceiling would be nice... please go vote. Or, if you don't think it would be helpful... vote too.

Thanks!
GRBoomer's Avatar GRBoomer
07:17 AM Liked: 13
post #96 of 832
07-18-2010 | Posts: 336
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With fiber optic ceilings, it often common to build a false ceiling to hold the fiber and also allow for 1" OC703 at the first acoustical reflection point. Could this then be extended to murals too?

Take 1/8" HDF or foam board and paint the mural at a more reasonable level, then place the panels on the ceiling. How would this compare? Do you lose perspective of the final finished product? Or at least get the main stars painted and finish up with the panels installed on the ceiling.

For those of us currently building our rooms, we have a blank canvas (pun intended) from a construction standpoint and can change some of the rules of installation. Also theaters on this forum are using different construction techniques and materials not typical of residential construction, fabric walls and screen walls, acoustic materials, etc. We have dark, smooth ceilings to contend with instead of white popcorn.

Panels would create the issue of seams that need alignment or hiding.

I love the depth of the star field because of varying colors and sizes. You obviously lose the mechanization of twinkling, but I think twinkling is often overdone and distracting. If you watch the sky, stars twinkle just a little bit and its very slow and subtle. I don't see this with some fiber systems.
NightSkyMurals's Avatar NightSkyMurals
11:10 AM Liked: 28
post #97 of 832
07-18-2010 | Posts: 502
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GRBoomer View Post

With fiber optic ceilings, it often common to build a false ceiling to hold the fiber and also allow for 1" OC703 at the first acoustical reflection point. Could this then be extended to murals too?

I'm not sure I totally understand this question, but if you are asking if a mural can be painted on this surface... absolutely. They can be pained on any surface. And the OC703 is fine, it would just take a slightly different technique to paint on it (special tools which I have) but it is not a problem. If I totally missed the question, please re-ask it. Sometimes you guys talk way over my head... but I am learning. :-)



Quote:
Originally Posted by GRBoomer View Post

Take 1/8" HDF or foam board and paint the mural at a more reasonable level, then place the panels on the ceiling. How would this compare? Do you lose perspective of the final finished product? Or at least get the main stars painted and finish up with the panels installed on the ceiling.

There isn't much difference. Unless the ceiling is 20 feet up, it is very easy to climb up a ladder, bend over backwards and paint (though I hurt badly later that day). I have also painted acoustic tiles and then packaged and sent them off to the customer. Usually I can go about 7' wide and 8' long when I do those... but I am looking into being able to paint larger sections.



Quote:
Originally Posted by GRBoomer View Post

For those of us currently building our rooms, we have a blank canvas (pun intended) from a construction standpoint and can change some of the rules of installation. Also theaters on this forum are using different construction techniques and materials not typical of residential construction, fabric walls and screen walls, acoustic materials, etc. We have dark, smooth ceilings to contend with instead of white popcorn.

Not a problem... just realize that some of the stars will probably be visible in the light. But, so far, those who have had me paint, knowing that they would see some stars in the light... have loved the mural and the stars in the light haven't bothered them. Most actually liked them. But, you would almost have to stare at the ceiling to even notice them.



Quote:
Originally Posted by GRBoomer View Post

Panels would create the issue of seams that need alignment or hiding.

Would there be a 1" framework for these panels as there is with the regular dropped ceiling acoustic panels? If so... then what I do is not touch the frame... and just paint the panels. The non-painted frame creates a window look that adds to the 3D effect.




Quote:
Originally Posted by GRBoomer View Post

I love the depth of the star field because of varying colors and sizes. You obviously lose the mechanization of twinkling, but I think twinkling is often overdone and distracting. If you watch the sky, stars twinkle just a little bit and its very slow and subtle. I don't see this with some fiber systems.

Oh, but my murals do twinkle. It is mostly an optical illusion, but almost everyone I paint for says that they see the stars twinkling the longer they look at it. It could be partly the paint adjusting and constantly changing... and the eyes playing tricks too. But, there is a subtle twinkling going on that is very realistic to the real night sky. And, when the paint is fully charged up... and if you stare at just one area of sky, then you can sometimes see the entire sky shimmering. Very cool stuff! :-)
GRBoomer's Avatar GRBoomer
03:02 PM Liked: 13
post #98 of 832
07-18-2010 | Posts: 336
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Thanks.

OC703 is 1" thick rigid fiberglass insulation and gets covered with black burlap looking acoustically transparent fabric (GOM 701).

So could the burlap fabric be painted with stars?

Also the false ceiling idea was to lower the ceiling so there isn't a difference in ceiling height where the insulation is located. I know in a regular room that the ceiling height differences would get lost in the dark, but with a projector, that 1" section is going to have quiet a bit of light reflected off the screen exposing the 1" bump on the ceiling. So the 1" false ceiling was just to camouflage the insulation, and potentially ease the physical strain of painting a ceiling.


Acoustic ceiling tiles are out. At least for in 99% of the theaters in this forum. They provide too much high frequency attenuation and not balanced attenuation across the frequency range.
NightSkyMurals's Avatar NightSkyMurals
04:31 PM Liked: 28
post #99 of 832
07-18-2010 | Posts: 502
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GRBoomer View Post

Thanks.

OC703 is 1" thick rigid fiberglass insulation and gets covered with black burlap looking acoustically transparent fabric (GOM 701).

So could the burlap fabric be painted with stars?


Absolutely. It shouldn't be that difficult to do.




Quote:
Originally Posted by GRBoomer View Post

Also the false ceiling idea was to lower the ceiling so there isn't a difference in ceiling height where the insulation is located. I know in a regular room that the ceiling height differences would get lost in the dark, but with a projector, that 1" section is going to have quiet a bit of light reflected off the screen exposing the 1" bump on the ceiling. So the 1" false ceiling was just to camouflage the insulation, and potentially ease the physical strain of painting a ceiling.


That makes sense. You want an even ceiling... with no lowered section. Got it. As for painting the mural... it wouldn't make too much of a difference, unless you were going to do it yourself.



Quote:
Originally Posted by GRBoomer View Post

Acoustic ceiling tiles are out. At least for in 99% of the theaters in this forum. They provide too much high frequency attenuation and not balanced attenuation across the frequency range.

I've noticed that. :-) I was just trying to see if that was the set up with the OC703. I was thinking that they might be installed the same way.
YONEXSP's Avatar YONEXSP
06:43 PM Liked: 12
post #100 of 832
07-18-2010 | Posts: 2,413
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NightSkyMurals View Post

(I just edited this thread to try to make my posting a little shorter. Well, it seems to have grown, but I did put some points in bullet points to help out.)

A star ceiling is a definite plus for any home theater or bedroom... but what is the best way to go? Should you install Fiber Optics or have the ceiling painted (either by yourself or by a professional)? Well, that depends...


By nightskymurals at 2010-07-02

Of course my view is going to be a little biased... but I will try to be fair to all three options.

First, lets go over Fiber optics. They are great to view in almost any light. This is a big pro when compared to a painted ceiling. A painted mural acts just like a real night sky and disappears in the light. Fiber optics are visible in the light.

When there are lights off in the room... the fiber optics are visible and beautiful. When the lights are on... they are still visible and beautiful. And, you can even make them twinkle.

But, there are some downsides to fiber optics too.

* They are pricey
* They require a lot of extra work to have them installed.
* Holes need to be drilled.
* Wires need to be run.
* If there is no crawl space above the ceiling... then panels need to be prepared, covered, wired and
installed.
* If you don't want to do all of the work yourself.. then you would need to hire someone to do it for
you and they may not have much of a clue what to do.
* You usually get only about 1/10th of the number of stars that a painted mural gives you.
* The holes drilled for the fibers are visible.
* One, maybe two, different sizes of stars.
* Scheduling a few days, to a week, for it to be installed.


But, they are nice and you can see the stars at any time basically.

Now... what about the painted night sky murals... DIY and professionally installed?

Well, here is where I can speak with more authority.

Let's start with the DIY option. This option can be both good and bad. Bad if you have no talent as an artist and you just throw up some paint with a paint brush. (I have seen, and painted over, many a ceiling where the owner, or their friend, tried to paint the night sky with glow-in-the-dark paint) It looks really easy, but there are definitely some techniques that need to be learned first.

But, if you or a friend are an artist and you want to freehand it... then go for it. And remember... you can always add more stars later if needed. Don't try to go too crazy at first. Paint, step back and look... and then paint some more.

There are also stencil kits that you can purchase on the Internet. Out of the 4 or 5 different stencils that I have tried out... there is one that is much better than the rest, and it isn't even the most expensive. So, do your due diligence or email me and I will steer you in the right direction. If you have more than one or two rooms to paint... you will be sore after painting with the stencil. Just sayin.

Pros for the DIY option:
* Cheapest method to get a star mural on your ceiling.
* Usually slightly nicer than the plastic stars.
* You can paint over it if it looks ugly and then try again or call a professional.
* You can claim credit for having painted it.
* If you have to tear out part of your ceiling to fix something up in there... then you can repaint that
area yourself.

Cons to the DIY option:
* Sore neck and back
* It's very easy to create a very ugly mural if you aren't careful.
* It isn't nearly as nice as one done by a professional (at least the better ones)
* More unnecessary work to perform where you aren't already proficient.
* It is only slightly nicer than the plastic stars.
* It's frustrating.

Now.. the professional. Are they really that expensive? Some are, some aren't. And, by the way, I am. (But, I am a lot less than having fiber optics installed)

A quick work about professionals here. There are many people/companies that will teach others to paint a star mural... who have never even painted one themselves. Usually they are either companies who want to sell their glow paint (so they teach you a method which creates a need for their paint)... or they are just lazy people who see a good idea and try to capitalize on someone elses success by marketing a Star-Painting Business Kit themselves. Then the people they train have learned really bad techniques from these non-skilled snake oil salesmen. So you want to be careful who you hire.

Having said that... I have seen some work done by other artists that really surprised me because the murals they painted were really nice. They were much better than I had expected them to be after hearing who they'd learned from. But, these murals were painted by people who were already muralists before they decided to add star mural ceilings to their portfolio.

But, I would be careful when hiring an artist and try to see their work first... or at least have them drop by with, or send you a sample of their work that you can look at. I mean... do you really want to spend all that time decorating your theater room... only to have an amateur come in and destroy your ceiling? There are good artists out there... but you need to search to find them.

As for the cost...I have seen muralists charge anywhere from $1 per square foot on up to $8 per square foot, and most of the time the old adage You get what you pay for rings true here. I charge $6, $7 and $8 per Sq. Ft. I would charge more, but I have to keep food on the table so I have kept it up there, but not too high. But, I feel that it is a good value for what I give the customer.

OK... Pros to having a professional paint the mural:

* The look is Incredible! (At least when done right)
* Painted night sky murals blow fiber optics away in the dark. (Fiber optics excel in lighted areas) For
realism... you can't get any better than a painted mural.
* You can have a real looking Milky Way, that looks cloudy with the thousand and thousands of tiny
little stars.
* You can have other deep space objects and the moon added in. (I suggest only a crescent moon
because I try to to make the mural look like a night sky that you would see from a remote location
on earth. Galaxies and Nebula aren't really visible with the naked eye from earth) But, it is
possible with a painted mural.
* You can create the illusion of mountains surrounding the room when the mural is brought down the
walls.
* Ceiling fans and heat registers can be painted too... so they don't become black holes when the
room is dark.
* If you feed some professional painters some cookie dough (ahem!) they might even throw in a
shooting star or two (more like comets since they are painted on).
* Virtually invisible in the light.
* Thousands of stars in the mural... compared to hundreds with fiber optics and DIY options.
* 10 to 15 different sized stars in the murals. This is what creates an incredible 3D look.
* Paint (a good muralist should have this paint) will glow for up to 12 hours (the smaller stars will *
fade in about 3 to 4... and the larger stars will glow longer).
* The paint can be made to fluoresce under a black light for viewing during a movie.
* The mural changes the longer it is glowing. The mural will look one way when the lights are first
turned out... and totally different 3 hours later.
* Stars seem to twinkle.
* No smell.
* Can be painted on most finishes
* Usually done in a day.
* Invisible in the light... just like the real night sky. Your room looks like it always has in the light.


Cons to a painted mural:

* The cost can get up there, but usually less than fiber optics.
* You need to make cookie dough for some artists. :-)
* You need a fairly dark room for the mural to be seen as painted.
* You need a good fluorescent light source to charge the paint for 10 minutes (Still, plugging in a
black light or two is easier than wiring for fiber optics).
* You could get a bad professional (Do your due-diligence)
* Invisible in the light. This is a Con if you want then to be visible in the light.


OK, I tried to give a fair overview of some different options for a star ceiling. But, whatever option you choose... get a star ceiling done. They are so incredibly relaxing and romantic. You've designed everything for the light... do this one thing for the dark. You will be glad you did.

If you have a day sky painted on the ceiling... then get a night sky painted on top of that. When the lights are on, the day sky will be visible. When they go out.. the night sky will appear. Very cool!

OK, I have gotten many questions about the murals from people who are building home theaters... and home theaters are probably my number one area to paint in.

Please ask any questions that you have and I will try to answer them for you.
If you are in the building stages.. and can still add in wiring to power lights... I can tell you where you should have them placed. If you can still add a ledge around the top... I can give you good ideas about how to build that too.

So, if you are considering stars in your ceiling.. ask away and I will try to help you out.

Can you recommend any artists in the Toronto Canada region?
NightSkyMurals's Avatar NightSkyMurals
08:39 PM Liked: 28
post #101 of 832
07-18-2010 | Posts: 502
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YONEXSP View Post

Can you recommend any artists in the Toronto Canada region?

How soon are you wanting to get it painted? I can look around to see who I feel would do a good job for you.

Or, if you aren't in a hurry, I might be able to get up there. I have to get my passport renewed anyway to go to Calgary... and I do get up to the Buffalo area from time to time and I could easily cross over. Besides, I'd love to see the Falls from your side. I just went there a few months ago, but your side looks much better. :-)

Can you PM me with the ceiling size (in feet if possible) and I can send you a price to paint it.
diamond design's Avatar diamond design
06:33 AM Liked: 10
post #102 of 832
07-19-2010 | Posts: 86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GRBoomer View Post


Acoustic ceiling tiles are out. At least for in 99% of the theaters in this forum. They provide too much high frequency attenuation and not balanced attenuation across the frequency range.

Boomer, if you want results over a large frequency range you should really use 2" of OC 703. I know for ceilings sometimes that extra inch drop can be an issue but 1" really just hits the high frequencies. Check the studies online or from Owens Corning about frequency and thickness. You can stick 2 1" together and it is the same as 1 piece of 2".

1" is used on ceilings a lot, just pointing it out in case you didn't already know.
diamond design's Avatar diamond design
06:37 AM Liked: 10
post #103 of 832
07-19-2010 | Posts: 86
Joined: Mar 2010
Nightsky,

You mentioned before you'd love to paint a mural on one of my printed scenes. The next time I buy a photo, I'll buy rights to do a sample mural and I could send it to you. If it works well, that one way a person could utilize your designs without having you fly in. Once it is painted on the fabric (which is very smooth by the way, almost like a bed sheet), you could roll it up and ship it to them and they could install it on the ceiling around OC 703. Anyway if you are still interested I'll buy double rights and do an extra run the next time I do a ceiling.
NightSkyMurals's Avatar NightSkyMurals
07:02 PM Liked: 28
post #104 of 832
07-19-2010 | Posts: 502
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diamond design View Post

Nightsky,

You mentioned before you'd love to paint a mural on one of my printed scenes. The next time I buy a photo, I'll buy rights to do a sample mural and I could send it to you. If it works well, that one way a person could utilize your designs without having you fly in. Once it is painted on the fabric (which is very smooth by the way, almost like a bed sheet), you could roll it up and ship it to them and they could install it on the ceiling around OC 703. Anyway if you are still interested I'll buy double rights and do an extra run the next time I do a ceiling.

Absolutely! Sure, send it to me and I'll paint it and get it back to you to check out. How large are they again? Do you ever do any that are about 7 x 7. That would be the easiest size to paint for a trial. But, if it works out... I would get set up to paint larger pieces. Or, if you only do larger... I will make it work somehow. I am excited to try one out!
NightSkyMurals's Avatar NightSkyMurals
10:28 PM Liked: 28
post #105 of 832
07-19-2010 | Posts: 502
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Somebody reported me as marketing my business on this forum and I was just chastised for answering questions about my product and pricing. So, if you want me to answer those types of questions... please PM me or email me at NightSkyMurals@gmail.com. From now on, I can only answer generic questions about helping you set up your rooms to be optimal for this product... or other general questions. I hope that is OK.
premiertrussman's Avatar premiertrussman
06:50 AM Liked: 14
post #106 of 832
07-20-2010 | Posts: 2,043
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I suppose that makes sense. I'm still glad you at least started the post and generated some interest. I've always liked the idea of a star ceiling but the fiber optic option always seemed out of reach. I didnt even know painting something like that was an option. So thanks for sharing.
kevinw73's Avatar kevinw73
07:01 AM Liked: 10
post #107 of 832
07-20-2010 | Posts: 74
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How much light does it take to "charge" the stars? Would 6 flourscent can lights in a 14x20 room with no ambient light source be enough? For that matter I guess I should ask what would be the best way to light the room to get the best effect out of the star field?
Mark P's Avatar Mark P
11:53 AM Liked: 30
post #108 of 832
07-20-2010 | Posts: 1,773
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NightSkyMurals View Post

Somebody reported me as marketing my business on this forum and I was just chastised for answering questions about my product and pricing. So, if you want me to answer those types of questions... please PM me or email me at NightSkyMurals@gmail.com. From now on, I can only answer generic questions about helping you set up your rooms to be optimal for this product... or other general questions. I hope that is OK.

Wow Jeff,
Was'nt me that I can promise you, I enjoyed our discussion greatly, you were most helpful!

This thread peaked my interest greatly, I have always found star ceilings sort of "gimicky" and "everyone has one,so theyre un-original these days" but in all fairness........when done properly they are incredible and what else can you really do with a ceiling to make it neat?

I have a smaller theater Im experimenting with and this is one of the things I want to see the possibilities







Like I said, nothing much to look at (the curved reef tank is cool but cant take good pics while its on) so a star ceiling would really help.

Im going to order some of Jeffs ( thread starter) paint and try it, while waiting I had the wife pick up some yesterday from a local guy who claims the best star paint available and supposedly lasts 48 hours, this claim is bogus, it might be glowing but you would need to be a black hole with a magnifying glass, it loses its luster in under a half hour.

With this product it charges with a normal light but you have to move the light around, Black light charges it as well but same story, you have to move the light close (3-4') and sweep the entire ceiling.

At first its kind of cool and realist other than the stars arent white, theyre a greenish "glow in the dark" color. I think a WHITE ceiling is a must for this to work properly, my ceiling is dark burgandy as the pics show. This stuff stains the ceiling, you can definately see it with lights on in theater. My guess is it has to be this way. For theater use whos going to have a white ceiling washing out their screens? Im guessing to make this cool you would have to pre-paint the stars white first, then apply several coats of the star paint as mentioned in the instructions ( it states 2-3 coats on dark ceilings, I have 2-3 in areas)

After first charged and in a black out condition, the stars reflect outwards actually lighting up the ceiling making it slightly blotchy even on dark ceilings, after a couple minutes this disappears and your eyes adjust and I think your brain helps the effect by taking a little of the "glow in the dark" greenish look out and you actually think they're real looking. Dont get me wrong its very cool.......but not the color of real stars, hopefully Jeffs stuff is different.

My advice on star placement is this........a little is ALOT, your eyes multiply the stars with a fill in the blank type effect so if you go crazy with 50 stars in a sq. ft. youre screwing up. In a 15' by 15' ceiling I would have about 1 Big star per foot but not every sq foot, you may have a 4 sq.ft. area with no Big stars and very few if any little stars. Put three big stars clumped her and there with a couple randomly scattered through out. Smaller stars need to be the same and in Lightning boltish patterns across corners. So go 4'-6' up one wall and end 2' off the adjacent wall in a line flucuating between a couple inche and maybe 1' wide. Remember a little is Alot, you can always add more later. Large (1/4"- 3/8") to small (1/16")

We charged ours before a movie last night and after the movie it was barely glowing if glowing at all.

Hopefully Jeffs paint is much better than this stuff, it must be , he takes pictures of it andit looks good, I cant pull that off with this stuff........Ill try later
mayhem13's Avatar mayhem13
11:59 AM Liked: 14
post #109 of 832
07-20-2010 | Posts: 3,959
Joined: Jan 2008
Hey Kevin, while i'm awaiting kits for DIY, i started contemplating and researching a light charging system and came up with a VERY good option......it's the use of T-5 slim flourescent tubes in a saltwater aquarium mixture of 7100k Actinic coloration. The bulbs are super slim, 48" long or shorter and will give off the most responsive wavelengths for charging the paint....brighter than blacklight and more efficient at the job, Aquarium supply stores onlne have the bulbs and electronic ballasts that WILL NOT produce any electrical inteference to audio/video gear (read important!) They also have wiring harnesses and lamp connectors of variing length. For me i'm going to use 4 48" bulbs (2 per side) in a soffit uplighting onto a 13x9 ft ceiling . Hope this helps

For those interested i'll post a Bill Of Materials with resources as soon as the kit availability is stabilized. If i have to be the marketing dummy for our gracious host, so be it as his development is one of the truly most impressive HT add-ons i've seen in a very very long time.
mayhem13's Avatar mayhem13
12:03 PM Liked: 14
post #110 of 832
07-20-2010 | Posts: 3,959
Joined: Jan 2008
Here's a link to the bulbs.....there's several mfgrs and color variants but my research indicates 7100K as the best color option for charging and viewing.

http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.co...m?pcatid=19761
nikodog's Avatar nikodog
12:41 PM Liked: 10
post #111 of 832
07-20-2010 | Posts: 31
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I see all the work you have done is to white unfinished ceilings. What is the option for those of us who already painted our ceilings black? I myself have used sparkles on a textured ceiling with rope light in crown molding dropped down 6". I applied a textured product to give it that rough look and then rolled it twice with a black paint. On the 2nd coat I used an air gun filled with sparkles and blew it up on the ceiling while it was wet. With the blue rope light on it looks like stars but only in the area the light reaches. Any ideas on how to cover the entire ceiling?

Andrew
premiertrussman's Avatar premiertrussman
12:50 PM Liked: 14
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07-20-2010 | Posts: 2,043
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nikodog View Post

I see all the work you have done is to white unfinished ceilings. What is the option for those of us who already painted our ceilings black? I myself have used sparkles on a textured ceiling with rope light in crown molding dropped down 6". I applied a textured product to give it that rough look and then rolled it twice with a black paint. On the 2nd coat I used an air gun filled with sparkles and blew it up on the ceiling while it was wet. With the blue rope light on it looks like stars but only in the area the light reaches. Any ideas on how to cover the entire ceiling?

Andrew

As Jeff has said, you can paint the stars on a black ceiling, the only thing you risk is the possibility of seeing some of the paint during normal lighting conditions, especially with the larger stars.
Mark P's Avatar Mark P
04:13 PM Liked: 30
post #113 of 832
07-20-2010 | Posts: 1,773
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mayhem13 View Post

Hey Kevin, while i'm awaiting kits for DIY, i started contemplating and researching a light charging system and came up with a VERY good option......it's the use of T-5 slim flourescent tubes in a saltwater aquarium mixture of 7100k Actinic coloration. The bulbs are super slim, 48" long or shorter and will give off the most responsive wavelengths for charging the paint....brighter than blacklight and more efficient at the job, Aquarium supply stores onlne have the bulbs and electronic ballasts that WILL NOT produce any electrical inteference to audio/video gear (read important!) They also have wiring harnesses and lamp connectors of variing length. For me i'm going to use 4 48" bulbs (2 per side) in a soffit uplighting onto a 13x9 ft ceiling . Hope this helps

For those interested i'll post a Bill Of Materials with resources as soon as the kit availability is stabilized. If i have to be the marketing dummy for our gracious host, so be it as his development is one of the truly most impressive HT add-ons i've seen in a very very long time.

I have a reef tank and brought 4 actinic bulbs out today and it charges the crappy star paint I got locally very well. Much more so than a black light but then again thats 400 watts compared to 30 watts. Not sure what Kelvin has to do with the charge..........I would think UV is UV is UV.

T5 is by far the skinniest (bright) light bulbs available. Anything made for "salt water reef" is going to be outrageously expensive, we have a local plant grower store that sells a T5 light with six bulbs for $80 you could dismantle.........Im not sure "reef" actinics are much under $40 a bulb let alone a $100 transformer/endcaps/harness.

They do charge the heck out of the paint though. The absolute brightest actinic I have ever witnessed and used is called a 454, it is twice as bright as a super actinic
mayhem13's Avatar mayhem13
06:09 PM Liked: 14
post #114 of 832
07-20-2010 | Posts: 3,959
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark P View Post

I have a reef tank and brought 4 actinic bulbs out today and it charges the crappy star paint I got locally very well. Much more so than a black light but then again thats 400 watts compared to 30 watts. Not sure what Kelvin has to do with the charge..........I would think UV is UV is UV.

The same reason 7100K is so beneficial to deep water SPS and LPS is the same principle behind the use here. His paints are STRONTIUM based......see the correlation?
FuzzyZipperbaum's Avatar FuzzyZipperbaum
06:35 PM Liked: 10
post #115 of 832
07-20-2010 | Posts: 103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mayhem13 View Post

The same reason 7100K is so beneficial to deep water SPS and LPS is the same principle behind the use here. His paints are STRONTIUM based......see the correlation?

YUP! Those of us with reef tanks will see the correlation!
GRBoomer's Avatar GRBoomer
07:14 PM Liked: 13
post #116 of 832
07-20-2010 | Posts: 336
Joined: Jun 2003
Black Light Bulbs (BLB) will allow you to keep your "night eyes" and provide one of the most efficient methods of charging. They do not produce much visible light. Incandescent BLBs and normal bulbs are very inefficient.
http://glowinc.com/glow-in-the-dark/black-light.aspx

Some other links.
http://kosmickreations.net/html/glow_paints.html
http://glowinc.com/SearchResult.aspx?CategoryID=11
NightSkyMurals's Avatar NightSkyMurals
12:05 AM Liked: 28
post #117 of 832
07-21-2010 | Posts: 502
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GRBoomer View Post

Black Light Bulbs (BLB) will allow you to keep your "night eyes" and provide one of the most efficient methods of charging. They do not produce much visible light. Incandescent BLBs and normal bulbs are very inefficient.
http://glowinc.com/glow-in-the-dark/black-light.aspx

Some other links.
http://kosmickreations.net/html/glow_paints.html
http://glowinc.com/SearchResult.aspx?CategoryID=11

Exactly! There are a fe good light sources that let off good UV light, but the Black Lights will let your eyes adapt to the
dark... which is very important for viewing the murals.

There are many places where a person can buy glow paints and powders, some good and some not so good. I am familiar with the two companies you linked to... but not sure of their products. I can say that one of my suppliers for good glow pigments is Ready Set Glow - www.ReadySetGlo.com - and they have high quality products. I don't buy my paints from them, or anyone else, because I mix my own, but they have good pigments.

As you can read in Mark's post (a few posts ago)... he was promised the world.. but the paint didn't live up to the promises.
NightSkyMurals's Avatar NightSkyMurals
12:23 AM Liked: 28
post #118 of 832
07-21-2010 | Posts: 502
Joined: Dec 2005
Wow... I was gone all day and when I got back I see that everyone has answered all of the questions for me. Sweet! You guys know your stuff!

I went to the customers house today, that owns the theater room that is at the beginning of this thread, and took some pictures of his room in the light, and of the soffit as I was requested to do. I will post them soon.
Mark P's Avatar Mark P
07:36 AM Liked: 30
post #119 of 832
07-21-2010 | Posts: 1,773
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mayhem13 View Post

The same reason 7100K is so beneficial to deep water SPS and LPS is the same principle behind the use here. His paints are STRONTIUM based......see the correlation?

Ok I'll bite, what is the correlation between Strontium and 7100k?

What would charge "glo-paint" the best......a 7100k T5, 1000k Metal Halide or a 20000k Radium?
Mark P's Avatar Mark P
07:44 AM Liked: 30
post #120 of 832
07-21-2010 | Posts: 1,773
Joined: May 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by NightSkyMurals View Post

Exactly! There are a fe good light sources that let off good UV light, but the Black Lights will let your eyes adapt to the
dark... which is very important for viewing the murals.

There are many places where a person can buy glow paints and powders, some good and some not so good. I am familiar with the two companies you linked to... but not sure of their products. I can say that one of my suppliers for good glow pigments is Ready Set Glow - www.ReadySetGlo.com - and they have high quality products. I don't buy my paints from them, or anyone else, because I mix my own, but they have good pigments.

As you can read in Mark's post (a few posts ago)... he was promised the world.. but the paint didn't live up to the promises.

Im not sure there is a product that will live up to not only "promises", but more so my expectations of a suitable star in a theater setting. A white ceiling is out of the question, Im really hoping when I get your sample its the cats meow and I can see how the thickness of the paint would play a major part as we discussed. GET ME MY SAMPLE!!! Just kidding Jeff

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