Star Ceilings... Painted or Fiber optics? - Page 40 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1171 of 1274 Old 06-30-2016, 05:06 PM - Thread Starter
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First of all, thanks to everyone who has been answering the questions lately! I just got back from flying around the country, painting, and it's really nice to have lots of the questions already answered. And, I think it's better, most of the time, to come from other people who have experienced some of the same problems.

So, I just need to get clarification before I can answer your question. Are you saying that you only have one inch of an opening between the ceiling and the top of your soffit? If that's the case, I don't think that tube lights, or strip lights will be of any help to you. You will want to go a different route and get either a light source that can shine up from the floor, or maybe some cannon lights that can hang down from the ceiling and flood the ceiling with light.

Now, if I am not understanding your question... please let me know and I will try to answer again.

But, as for any progress that has been made on the light strips... I have sent a sample strip, that I got from a customer who was using some that seemed to work great in their dome room, to China for them to test. I have the results and they are shipping me a sample of some new lights that match the strip that I sent to them. I will test them as soon as they arrive and will let everyone know. They will hopefully arrive version. I am anxious to find something that really works!!!

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Hey Jeff, did you ever get any further with testing the blacklight strips? Thanks to some unplanned design changes needed, I now only have about an inch of space on the light tray, so strip lights will probably be the only option outside of something sitting on the floor or the like.
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post #1172 of 1274 Old 07-02-2016, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by NightSkyMurals View Post
So, I just need to get clarification before I can answer your question. Are you saying that you only have one inch of an opening between the ceiling and the top of your soffit? If that's the case, I don't think that tube lights, or strip lights will be of any help to you. You will want to go a different route and get either a light source that can shine up from the floor, or maybe some cannon lights that can hang down from the ceiling and flood the ceiling with light.

Now, if I am not understanding your question... please let me know and I will try to answer again.
The soffit hangs about 8 inches from the ceiling. The 1 inch is referring to the tray space I have to put any lights on. My idea is to use LED light strips which are only about 10mm wide, so should fit. And I might be able to change the angle a bit to aim more at the ceiling center.

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post #1173 of 1274 Old 07-04-2016, 12:50 PM - Thread Starter
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OK, now I understand... thanks!

Yeah, I'm thinking that the strip LED lights are pretty much your only choice for charging lights in your soffit. You can probably get some RGB ropes in there too. That'd be nice!

You'll probably want to think about getting another light, in addition, so that you can hit the center area. See how it goes with the strip lights first, then experiment.

I just checked... and the new sample lights just hit customs in Cincinnati and should be here this week (fingers are crossed). When I sent my lights to China for testing... they were only in customs for less than a day. I'm hoping for something similar here.

I should have more info soon.

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The soffit hangs about 8 inches from the ceiling. The 1 inch is referring to the tray space I have to put any lights on. My idea is to use LED light strips which are only about 10mm wide, so should fit. And I might be able to change the angle a bit to aim more at the ceiling center.
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post #1174 of 1274 Old 07-05-2016, 07:58 AM
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OK, now I understand... thanks!

Yeah, I'm thinking that the strip LED lights are pretty much your only choice for charging lights in your soffit. You can probably get some RGB ropes in there too. That'd be nice!

You'll probably want to think about getting another light, in addition, so that you can hit the center area. See how it goes with the strip lights first, then experiment.

I just checked... and the new sample lights just hit customs in Cincinnati and should be here this week (fingers are crossed). When I sent my lights to China for testing... they were only in customs for less than a day. I'm hoping for something similar here.

I should have more info soon.

Jeff
My goal is to have an RGB strip plus the blacklight strip, both controlled from a Fibaro z-wave module. I do have a couple fluorescent tubes that I can bring in for times when I want to super charge the paint for guests and the like, but the room design doesn't allow a good way to mount them, so they'll be more of an on-demand kind of thing. If the strips put out some decent enough juice, I'm thinking they'll work for day to day (or if I get really I don't even need the other tubes).

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post #1175 of 1274 Old 07-07-2016, 06:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Nice... that should work. Well, I tried the new strip out, I plugged it in and it worked for a quick test (worked nicely), but when I got a couple jars of paint (one to test the old light strip and one to test the new one)... the strip stopped working. I'm not sure if the connection is just bad, or what. I'm really hoping that the company has a solution for me.

And, yeah, I'd probably keep a light nearby. What I am seeing a lot of, lately, is soffits that are pretty close to the ceiling... and after the charging lights are turned off, the area right above the soffits are supercharged, while the center doesn't look charged at all. It is charged, but since the edges are so bright, it just makes the center look not so charged up. But, after 10 minutes, or so, the ceiling usually will even out and look nice. So, to have it all look even at the same time... the light for the center would be really important. But, if you can wait... then you might be OK.

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My goal is to have an RGB strip plus the blacklight strip, both controlled from a Fibaro z-wave module. I do have a couple fluorescent tubes that I can bring in for times when I want to super charge the paint for guests and the like, but the room design doesn't allow a good way to mount them, so they'll be more of an on-demand kind of thing. If the strips put out some decent enough juice, I'm thinking they'll work for day to day (or if I get really I don't even need the other tubes).
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post #1176 of 1274 Old 07-07-2016, 06:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Moebius... here's an update from my last reply to you.

Yep... the company was able to help me get the light thing figured out. I was my fault... I was using a 12v power source instead of a 24v. So, now I can get back to testing.
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post #1177 of 1274 Old 07-07-2016, 08:23 PM
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Moebius... here's an update from my last reply to you.

Yep... the company was able to help me get the light thing figured out. I was my fault... I was using a 12v power source instead of a 24v. So, now I can get back to testing.
Good to see they're responsive at least. Here's hoping the lights work well.

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post #1178 of 1274 Old 07-08-2016, 08:33 AM
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So on the topic of non-soffit based light sources... Jeff, do you - or does anyone else for that matter - have a recommendation of a good "light canon" to use from a floor position? I'd love to find an LED based one, but the only thing I've found close to the 365nm desired wavelength was close to 3 grand, so that's not happening.

I got a cheapo blacklight fluorescent fixture from Walmart just to help while painting the background stars this week, and it actually does charge it up, but only at pretty close range and not for very long.

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post #1179 of 1274 Old 07-08-2016, 01:18 PM - Thread Starter
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How high is your ceiling, and what is the size of the black light that you have? I take an 18" black light with me, when I travel, and I can set it on the floor for 15 minutes, or so... and it does a good job at charging up the paint. But, yeah, when I put my jar of paint right up to the light... it charges it fast and furious.

I was just wondering if something could be made with these black light strips... like taking 10, 12" strips and building a little box for them to go into (I had one customer make a table for a black light. The top could be removed and the light turned on when needed. That could also be done with a cannon light as well. Here's a link to a cannon light that I think would work great. http://www.blacklight.com/items/ADJUVCANON

Oh, and this company that has been helping me find lights that will work for me has sent some special lights that they found, that aren't even 365nm lights... and they work as well, or better, than the 365nm strip lights that I have. I still don't know how that is possible, but the lights are working well. It's just a little difficult to judge how a room full of lights will work since I am testing a 10" strip. But, I like what I've seen so far.

Jeff





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So on the topic of non-soffit based light sources... Jeff, do you - or does anyone else for that matter - have a recommendation of a good "light canon" to use from a floor position? I'd love to find an LED based one, but the only thing I've found close to the 365nm desired wavelength was close to 3 grand, so that's not happening.

I got a cheapo blacklight fluorescent fixture from Walmart just to help while painting the background stars this week, and it actually does charge it up, but only at pretty close range and not for very long.
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post #1180 of 1274 Old 07-08-2016, 09:36 PM
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8' ceilings. The cheapie I got from Walmart I think is 18", but low power too.

I've seen that American DJ one around, wasn't sure if it was good uv or not.

Still thinking the strips have a chance if they're bright.

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How high is your ceiling, and what is the size of the black light that you have? I take an 18" black light with me, when I travel, and I can set it on the floor for 15 minutes, or so... and it does a good job at charging up the paint. But, yeah, when I put my jar of paint right up to the light... it charges it fast and furious.

I was just wondering if something could be made with these black light strips... like taking 10, 12" strips and building a little box for them to go into (I had one customer make a table for a black light. The top could be removed and the light turned on when needed. That could also be done with a cannon light as well. Here's a link to a cannon light that I think would work great. http://www.blacklight.com/items/ADJUVCANON

Oh, and this company that has been helping me find lights that will work for me has sent some special lights that they found, that aren't even 365nm lights... and they work as well, or better, than the 365nm strip lights that I have. I still don't know how that is possible, but the lights are working well. It's just a little difficult to judge how a room full of lights will work since I am testing a 10" strip. But, I like what I've seen so far.

Jeff

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post #1181 of 1274 Old 07-09-2016, 10:56 AM
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So I finally got started on the background stars today (kept getting put off for different reasons, lazy being one of them), and gotta say... I don't envy your work, Jeff. It's not that it's difficult (not that my quality is even a tiny fraction of your work mind you), but it's laborious. Made worse in my case by the fact that I've got 2 ceiling fans, a projector mount, and 2 air vents to work with. But I have to say, even with the cheapie Walmart blacklight fixture, it looks utterly amazing. I'm trying not to get reckless, so it's taking about 25 minutes per sheet.

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post #1182 of 1274 Old 07-09-2016, 08:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Yeah, American DJ seems to have some good lights. Pretty much any of the real black lights that I have seen would work great.

Glad that you are starting on the background stars... and yes, it can wear on your body. I have to get in and not stop until I finish, if at all possible. If I do stop my back and neck start to tighten up and it makes things even more difficult. But, don't push it... a little at a time will work fine. Better to take a few days than to have lots of back problems. I got home a week ago from a painting trip to a few states... and I'm still not recovered.

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I've seen that American DJ one around, wasn't sure if it was good uv or not. Still thinking the strips have a chance if they're bright.

So I finally got started on the background stars today (kept getting put off for different reasons, lazy being one of them), and gotta say... I don't envy your work, Jeff. It's not that it's difficult (not that my quality is even a tiny fraction of your work mind you), but it's laborious. Made worse in my case by the fact that I've got 2 ceiling fans, a projector mount, and 2 air vents to work with. But I have to say, even with the cheapie Walmart blacklight fixture, it looks utterly amazing. I'm trying not to get reckless, so it's taking about 25 minutes per sheet.
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post #1183 of 1274 Old 07-11-2016, 12:09 AM
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Thought that I would add my star ceiling to this thread.
It consists of a black Fidelio velvet backing on 6mm MDF, with literally thousands of crystals/faceted mirror finish beads, attached via pins. I have used concealed perimeter strip LED lighting - the light of which, skims over the surface of the velvet ceiling, then is captured by the individual facets of the crystals. Never the same view from any different viewing position.
My star field is the Southern Hemisphere and the ceiling space covered is 4.4m x 5.8m.

Daylight:

No natural light - HT lighting on/perimeter LEDs on:

Very difficult to photograph with a basic camera, but I can vouch that it looks a lot better in real life
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post #1184 of 1274 Old 07-12-2016, 12:21 PM
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I can't even begin to imagine the level of effort pinning all those beads in. Looks amazing!

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post #1185 of 1274 Old 07-12-2016, 03:27 PM
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Oh, and this company that has been helping me find lights that will work for me has sent some special lights that they found, that aren't even 365nm lights... and they work as well, or better, than the 365nm strip lights that I have. I still don't know how that is possible, but the lights are working well. It's just a little difficult to judge how a room full of lights will work since I am testing a 10" strip. But, I like what I've seen so far.

Jeff
Question for you, Jeff. When you're playing around with the strips, can you try to get an idea for the distance at which the strips are effective? I'm still keeping an eye on this possibility while you're testing. In my case, while the soffit is close to the ceiling at 8", it's also a narrow ceiling, probably just shy of 6 feet across, so if they have a decent range, I may be able to come up with a tiny mount that would angle them towards the middle to get a better spread.

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post #1186 of 1274 Old 07-25-2016, 07:41 PM - Thread Starter
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I will, and have. They work really well, as do the other lights that I have gotten. I guess that I'm just not satisfied that these are the best strip lights yet. I frustrate myself because I am never satisfied and always wanting to know if there's something better. I worked on my stencils for an extra 2-3 years because I wasn't satisfied. Grrrrr...

Let me finish up a few jobs so that I can spend some time playing around and testing these lights. One problem I am having is that the test strip is only a foot long. I'm sure things would be much different if I had a 40' strip wrapped around my ceiling.

Testing in Progress...

Jeff




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Question for you, Jeff. When you're playing around with the strips, can you try to get an idea for the distance at which the strips are effective? I'm still keeping an eye on this possibility while you're testing. In my case, while the soffit is close to the ceiling at 8", it's also a narrow ceiling, probably just shy of 6 feet across, so if they have a decent range, I may be able to come up with a tiny mount that would angle them towards the middle to get a better spread.
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post #1187 of 1274 Old 07-25-2016, 07:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Nice... and a lot of work! Did you pin the beads to the fabric once it was on the ceiling, or before? Looks nice!

Jeff


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Thought that I would add my star ceiling to this thread.
It consists of a black Fidelio velvet backing on 6mm MDF, with literally thousands of crystals/faceted mirror finish beads, attached via pins. I have used concealed perimeter strip LED lighting - the light of which, skims over the surface of the velvet ceiling, then is captured by the individual facets of the crystals. Never the same view from any different viewing position.
My star field is the Southern Hemisphere and the ceiling space covered is 4.4m x 5.8m.
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post #1188 of 1274 Old 07-25-2016, 11:57 PM
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Nice... and a lot of work! Did you pin the beads to the fabric once it was on the ceiling, or before? Looks nice!

Jeff
Thankyou. You obviously understand the "labor of love" and bulk hours associated with a star ceiling. I admire your work and regularly check out this thread along with other builds. Not many threads are documented in our Australian forums.
The 5 panels took me around 4 months to complete.
I charted the panels and drilled 1mm holes. Next, painted the underside of the panel black, covered with fidelio, then laboriously fed each black painted pin and crystal, through it's dedicated hole using a backlight to locate the hole. Took years off my eyesight! Bent the pins over on the rear side. Pins extend from the surface by differing lengths to have more chance of capturing the edge lighting.
It's an awesome effect (if I say so myself), as there are many 3D visuals because of the varying reflections from different oxide treatments on the crystals. Must alter the light's wavelength
Half finished panel:

Reverse before "pin bending":

Panel up:
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post #1189 of 1274 Old 07-26-2016, 01:16 AM
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Crikey! Now that's a labour of love!

How did you hide the seams? Or was it not necessary? Also, how did you attach the panels to the ceiling?
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Crikey! Now that's a labour of love!

How did you hide the seams? Or was it not necessary? Also, how did you attach the panels to the ceiling?
The velvet "pile", was enough to hide the seam when the edge of each panel pushed together. Under HT lighting, nothing can be seen.
I spray painted hundreds of 15mm screws and used around 100 in each panel - screwing directly into the plywood ceiling. Covered each screw with either a swarovski flat crystal, or a disc of fidelio velvet.
Once again, very laborious, but did the trick
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Thanks. Food for thought.
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post #1192 of 1274 Old 07-26-2016, 07:11 AM
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I have this american DJ panel : https://www.amazon.com/American-Pane...american+dj+uv which I can verify works VERY well for charging my entire ceiling. I have blacklights in my soffit of course, but this can be put on the floor at an angle and hit almost the whole thing, and it has the right frequency. I'd classify it as a UV light cannon, but you wouldn't permanently mount it because it is pretty big.
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post #1193 of 1274 Old 07-26-2016, 07:12 PM
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Anyone done a painted star ceiling in conjunction with both in-ceilng speakers and in (or on)-ceiling acoustic treatments? I think a star ceiling is a must for my dream home theater, but the requirements for the ceiling are getting crowded.

Related: in a perfect world how far down from the ceiling would you have the light tray for the black lights?
I haven't pose in way too long, but it's time!

I had Jeff paint accoustic treatments and haven't had any issues. I made the classic mistake of stopping progress once the theater worked but I'm right now completing my theater. I came here because I can't figure it out a permanent light option. I just use a black light from Walmart now.

My treatment is roughly 7'x7'.

Has anyone tried the 395-405 led lights? How far will they throw if they're only an inch or two below?

I might just use a regular strip for looks. Never look at the stars during movies anyway and I never use the uv because it reflects off my screen.
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post #1194 of 1274 Old 07-28-2016, 08:57 AM
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Question

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Hi lbrown105... I'm not sure that I have envisioned the material that you mentioned, but it sounds interesting and I would love to look into if further. Do you have a link to something similar, or the actual product?
If so, would you email it to me at NightSkyMurals@gmail.com so I can look into it?

Also, if it's an 8 x 8 piece.. I can paint it here in my shop. But, it looks like I will be in the Chicago area within the next month or so (depending on if my back recovers any time soon.

I will watch for your email, hopefully with a link to that material that you are asking about.

Thanks! Jeff

Quote:Originally Posted by lbrown105 

Jeff I am interested in having a star ceiling mural painted on black or dark blue acoustically transparent material covering a cloud abosrber on ceiling. It about 8'x8' section of fabric. I have used the same fabric to print high resolution images with good results. Curious if you would be interested in painting something like. May not need to be on site if I could send you the material, unless you happen to be in the Chicago/Milwaukee area anytime soon?
Did anything happen to come from this? I know it is a bit old, but I was searching through and found that it sounds interesting.
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post #1195 of 1274 Old 07-29-2016, 06:53 AM
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I posted right above this that I had him paint on accoustic fabric so I could treat my ceiling. I built the three inch or whatever off the ceiling w the two inches of foam, wrapped it then had him come. I haven't seen it not on a fabric but it def works. I think he said mine was one of the first he did I'll take some pics later


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post #1196 of 1274 Old 07-29-2016, 07:34 AM
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I posted right above this that I had him paint on accoustic fabric so I could treat my ceiling. I built the three inch or whatever off the ceiling w the two inches of foam, wrapped it then had him come. I haven't seen it not on a fabric but it def works. I think he said mine was one of the first he did I'll take some pics later


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Pics would be great. I read through the 21 page build thread a couple of days ago, I really like the bar. Interested in seeing how the ceiling goes. Your above comment is what got me searching if others had tried it as well.
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post #1197 of 1274 Old 07-30-2016, 06:26 PM
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Haven't even put this on my thread yet, finally trimmed out the ceiling and out it up. It's a 1x4 with a 1x2 on the bottom to creat and edge. I out up a led strip I have and it def went more than half way so I'll try and get a uv strip and see how it works. I'll report back


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post #1198 of 1274 Old 08-01-2016, 09:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for your suggestion... and yes, that's great light!

Jeff


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I have this american DJ panel : https://www.amazon.com/American-Pane...american+dj+uv which I can verify works VERY well for charging my entire ceiling. I have blacklights in my soffit of course, but this can be put on the floor at an angle and hit almost the whole thing, and it has the right frequency. I'd classify it as a UV light cannon, but you wouldn't permanently mount it because it is pretty big.
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post #1199 of 1274 Old 08-01-2016, 09:37 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm trying to remember your ceiling... but I think I may have done a few too many for my feeble brain to recall it (at least right now). But, I have been testing strip, LED lights that should work fine. I have two strips that I've tried in my office that should work in your area. My office soffit area is about 9x9, so the lights would fit. They did work in my ceiling, but just know that I am still testing lights out. Email me if you'd like to talk about getting one of these sets of lights.

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I haven't pose in way too long, but it's time!

I had Jeff paint accoustic treatments and haven't had any issues. I made the classic mistake of stopping progress once the theater worked but I'm right now completing my theater. I came here because I can't figure it out a permanent light option. I just use a black light from Walmart now.

My treatment is roughly 7'x7'.

Has anyone tried the 395-405 led lights? How far will they throw if they're only an inch or two below?

I might just use a regular strip for looks. Never look at the stars during movies anyway and I never use the uv because it reflects off my screen.
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post #1200 of 1274 Old 08-01-2016, 09:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Good question. I can't remember if I ever painted this, or not. I've painted on many surfaces, and materials... but I do vaguely remember thinking that this would be fun to paint on, but I just can't remember if I ever did or not.

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Did anything happen to come from this? I know it is a bit old, but I was searching through and found that it sounds interesting.
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