Star Ceilings... Painted or Fiber optics? - Page 9 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 5Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #241 of 779 Old 02-02-2011, 10:19 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Tom Hilton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: North Carolina, USA
Posts: 1,379
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by zuluwalker View Post

Do the stars disappear in candle light or get charged, please?


Zuluwalker,

Haven't tried that scenario, but I'll give you what I would anticipate based upon other light sources I've used. Perhaps Jeff could give a more definitive answer.

I take it (?) you are referring to the most common usage of candle light in a home, i. e., a few candles producing a very low light environment. In that case, I would expect the stars to be invisible and the candle light to have very little, if any, charging effect on the paint.


Tom

Tom


The world is more than we know...more than we imagine...more even than we can imagine.
Tom Hilton is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #242 of 779 Old 02-02-2011, 01:22 PM
Just add water and stir
 
zuluwalker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 1,636
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 32 Post(s)
Liked: 467
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Hilton View Post

Zuluwalker,

Haven't tried that scenario, but I'll give you what I would anticipate based upon other light sources I've used. Perhaps Jeff could give a more definitive answer.

I take it (?) you are referring to the most common usage of candle light in a home, i. e., a few candles producing a very low light environment. In that case, I would expect the stars to be invisible and the candle light to have very little, if any, charging effect on the paint.


Tom

That sounds about right; lighting for mood vs. illuminating for reading. Sometimes I play mch music with no lighting or projector and I enjoy the tone it creates in my evening, peaceful.

Thank you for your answer. I suspected as much, glad you made it clear.
zuluwalker is offline  
post #243 of 779 Old 02-02-2011, 04:07 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Tom Hilton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: North Carolina, USA
Posts: 1,379
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by zuluwalker View Post

That sounds about right; lighting for mood vs. illuminating for reading. Sometimes I play mch music with no lighting or projector and I enjoy the tone it creates in my evening, peaceful.

Thank you for your answer. I suspected as much, glad you made it clear.



I also should have mentioned that it might depend upon how much the stars were charged before the lighting of the candles.

Still, even if the mural had been fully charged immediately prior to the candle light environment, I imagine star visibility would be significantly below optimum. The darker the room, the better the visibility of the mural...and the starlight tends to "flee" any competing light source (as do real stars in the real night sky). I would think that glow stars are likely to react toward candle light intensity much as they do to other light sources.

Anyway, all this has me thinking that it would be fun to try this out and see for myself. Tomorrow, I'm going to charge up my mural, light some candles in my HT, and see how things appear. I'll post my observations sometime Thursday afternoon, or Friday at the latest.


Tom

Tom


The world is more than we know...more than we imagine...more even than we can imagine.
Tom Hilton is offline  
post #244 of 779 Old 02-03-2011, 12:46 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
NightSkyMurals's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Based in Salt Lake City, UT... but most of my work is done all over the USA and Canada. I cover all areas.
Posts: 473
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Candle light will probably wash out some of the stars.... and on the number of candles burning, it could wash most of them out.

I painted a mural a week or so ago and there was a satellite receiver that had a really bright LED light as a "power on" light. That little light washed a lot of of the stars on one side of the room. The customer didn't really care, but all of the smaller stars were washed out. The larger stars were there, but it also took the blackness of the ceiling, in normal darkness, away too. That also plays into the effect of the illusion.

So, the candles might... but it depends.

Jeff



Quote:
Originally Posted by zuluwalker View Post

Do the stars disappear in candle light or get charged, please?


Night Sky Murals

FaceBook
Hairs On Neck... Please Stand!

NightSkyMurals is offline  
post #245 of 779 Old 02-03-2011, 12:51 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
NightSkyMurals's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Based in Salt Lake City, UT... but most of my work is done all over the USA and Canada. I cover all areas.
Posts: 473
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Thanks again Tom. You are correct, and I forgot to answer the charging question. There would be no charging from the candle light.

I just lit a candle in my room... and a lot of stars were gone that normally would have been there. With two or three candles, they would create light similar to being too near to city light pollution and you would probably only see the brightest constellation stars... for maybe an hour.

Tom is a good source for answers. Thanks Tom, I've been busy trying to reschedule my trip away from the "Snow Zone" and haven't been able to answer.

Jeff


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Hilton View Post

Zuluwalker,

Haven't tried that scenario, but I'll give you what I would anticipate based upon other light sources I've used. Perhaps Jeff could give a more definitive answer.

I take it (?) you are referring to the most common usage of candle light in a home, i. e., a few candles producing a very low light environment. In that case, I would expect the stars to be invisible and the candle light to have very little, if any, charging effect on the paint.


Tom


Night Sky Murals

FaceBook
Hairs On Neck... Please Stand!

NightSkyMurals is offline  
post #246 of 779 Old 02-03-2011, 12:56 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
NightSkyMurals's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Based in Salt Lake City, UT... but most of my work is done all over the USA and Canada. I cover all areas.
Posts: 473
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Something that might work, and I will try to see if this works in the next day or two... is to light a candle or two and put them in a container that would allow for the flicker effect, but not let the light project to the ceiling. That might allow them to work. You might need to remind me. I seem to losing my mind with everything that is going on... and I may forget. Please feel free to remind me.

Jeff


Quote:
Originally Posted by zuluwalker View Post

That sounds about right; lighting for mood vs. illuminating for reading. Sometimes I play mch music with no lighting or projector and I enjoy the tone it creates in my evening, peaceful.

Thank you for your answer. I suspected as much, glad you made it clear.


Night Sky Murals

FaceBook
Hairs On Neck... Please Stand!

NightSkyMurals is offline  
post #247 of 779 Old 02-03-2011, 11:31 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Tom Hilton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: North Carolina, USA
Posts: 1,379
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Hilton View Post

I also should have mentioned that it might depend upon how much the stars were charged before the lighting of the candles.

Still, even if the mural had been fully charged immediately prior to the candle light environment, I imagine star visibility would be significantly below optimum. The darker the room, the better the visibility of the mural...and the starlight tends to "flee" any competing light source (as do real stars in the real night sky). I would think that glow stars are likely to react toward candle light intensity much as they do to other light sources.

Anyway, all this has me thinking that it would be fun to try this out and see for myself. Tomorrow, I'm going to charge up my mural, light some candles in my HT, and see how things appear. I'll post my observations sometime Thursday afternoon, or Friday at the latest.


Tom



Following up on the post above---

I charged my mural for fifteen minutes with two 48" black light tubes in a shop fixture sitting on the floor of the HT room.

After charging the glow stars, I turned off the black light and observed the mural with the light from six candles...then four candles...then two candles...then one candle...and finally with all candles extinguished.

As I had noted with other light sources, the darker the environment, the more visible the stars become. With six and four candles illuminating, I was only able to see major constellations (Orion, Ursa Major, Ursa Minor, Cassiopeia, Triangulum, Corona Borealis, etc.). With two candles, a few other scattered stars began to appear and with one candle a few more became visible, but the depth of the star field was still largely unobservable.

When all candles were extinguished, the illusion came to life immediately. The Milky Way, which stretches diagonally across our ceiling, was especially apparent, along with the many hundreds (seemingly thousands) of stars popping out all over as my night vision became more efficient. I'm able to tightly control the lighting in my HT room, so it is very dark when all light sources are extinguished. I think that type of environment is conducive to the illusion Jeff seeks to create with his murals---a view of the night sky as it appears on a moonless night far from urban light pollution. I can say that he certainly succeeded in our theater.

Anyway, my opinion is that a mural in a low light candle scene could give you a little different perspective on the night sky. However, the optimal effect of the painting is apparent in a room darkened as much as possible.

Now, the scenario I've described above is based upon on my preference to charge up the stars beforehand and remove the black light during viewing. Another approach is to bathe the mural continually in black light while viewing, in which case a bit more light in the room from sources like candles might produce an effect you would like. In any case, I think it's fun and interesting to experiment with different methods to facilitate your enjoyment of the mural.

My "two cents worth".


Tom

Tom


The world is more than we know...more than we imagine...more even than we can imagine.
Tom Hilton is offline  
post #248 of 779 Old 02-04-2011, 08:50 AM
Just add water and stir
 
zuluwalker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 1,636
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 32 Post(s)
Liked: 467
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Hilton View Post

In any case, I think it's fun and interesting to experiment with different methods to facilitate your enjoyment of the mural.

My "two cents worth".


Tom

WOW! Thank you for your time and answer.
zuluwalker is offline  
post #249 of 779 Old 02-04-2011, 11:35 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
JMartinko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: The Rockies
Posts: 3,187
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Tom. That sounds like a fun experiment, thanks for the inputs. I am still a ways away getting the room build underway, but I am already planning on the sky ceiling, and can't wait to get to that point. I like the concept of a 'full sky', and then by some dim room lighting (candles, well placed spots or LED strings) changing the view to major stars and constellations. That could make the effect even more impressive.

John M
JMartinko is offline  
post #250 of 779 Old 02-04-2011, 01:23 PM
Member
 
bl2bl2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 146
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by edmove View Post

What are your thoughts on the black light star painted option on a flat black ceiling?

The stars are definately noticeable on the black ceiling with the lights on. The only ones that do not show up with lights on are the smallest ones.... all constellations are very visible even with lights on. This is not a problem for me because I will always either have all the lights off in the room or have the black lights on to make the stars glow... but... if you are wanting to "hide" the stars with lights on... definitely don't do a black ceiling.

BUT... on the flip side of that, I love the black ceiling in my room because I am able to have my 6 can lights very dim which light up the room enough to see the wood ceiling surrounding my stars and your able to walk to and from the seats very easy... but the black ceiling with black lights in the soffit makes the "star ceiling" look like it would with a white ceiling only when all the lights are all the way off, which is what I wanted. So... it all depends on what you want and what all your room will be used for.

I will try to get a picture of how my black ceiling looks with the stars NOT charged and all the lights (except the black lights) turned on in the room and post it here so you can see what I am talking about.

Check Out My Man Cave Theater Build Log!

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1306640
bl2bl2 is offline  
post #251 of 779 Old 02-04-2011, 05:28 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
NightSkyMurals's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Based in Salt Lake City, UT... but most of my work is done all over the USA and Canada. I cover all areas.
Posts: 473
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Hey Tom...

In case you still have your candles up in your theater room, can you try one more thing? Do you have any candle holders; the kind where you put the candle into the holder and it has a top on it,or some type of cover? Or, any kind of candle holder that will allow light out of it, but just not up towards the ceiling? If so, can you try that experiment again with that type of candle holder? I am wondering if the stars would wash out as much with the upward traveling light was blocked.

In the picture that I have on this thread, the one with the black lights around it and the stars visible... I sat in that theater with the BL on and with them off, while a movie was playing. And, because his 3 foot deep soffit blocked the light from the projector and the screen from hitting the ceiling directly, the stars were very visible during the movie. After about an hour (after he turned off the Black Lights) there were a lot of stars visible. Then, after the hour, a night sky, similar to a darker area of a city, were visible.

Anyway, in case you have nothing better to do. I will also try that experiment too... if I can find something to put some candles in. If not, then I will block the candle light with a plate or magazine... to see. Thanks for doing what you did though. I am getting great ideas and you guys are helping me out a lot here too. So, thanks to everyone here who is asking questions and answering them too!

And, about the paint being visible on a black surface in the light... they are visible. A lot will depend on the texture on the ceiling and where the lights are placed in the room, and the size that the stars are painted... but that is just one of those things. What I have found though, is that as bl2bl2 mentioned it is usually the constellation stars that are most visible. And, a lot of customers of mine said that they didn't ind seeing the Big Dipper or other constellations in the light. It's all preference.

I hope that your painting turned out the way you wanted bl2... You are brave to have tackled one in your theater room on your first try!

Jeff

Night Sky Murals

FaceBook
Hairs On Neck... Please Stand!

NightSkyMurals is offline  
post #252 of 779 Old 02-05-2011, 09:38 AM
Member
 
bl2bl2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 146
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by NightSkyMurals View Post

Hey Tom...

I hope that your painting turned out the way you wanted bl2... You are brave to have tackled one in your theater room on your first try!

Jeff

Yea it turned out great! I will get pictures posted as soon as I can figure out how to take a good picture of it lol

Check Out My Man Cave Theater Build Log!

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1306640
bl2bl2 is offline  
post #253 of 779 Old 02-06-2011, 12:17 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
NightSkyMurals's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Based in Salt Lake City, UT... but most of my work is done all over the USA and Canada. I cover all areas.
Posts: 473
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by bl2bl2 View Post

Yea it turned out great! I will get pictures posted as soon as I can figure out how to take a good picture of it lol

Good luck with that! I have had people tell me for years that they could do it. And, there have only been a few that have turned out really well... and the best is the one in this forum of the theater room with black lights.

I painted one of the coolest (showing my age with that word, eh?) murals the other night and the customer was so excited that he told me he'd have a picture emailed to me before I got home. Within 10 minutes I got a text telling me that it wouldn't work. But, he is going to try with some better equipment later this week. So, I hope that you have a long exposure on your camera. :-)

But, I've got to say that that mural came our soooo nice! I won't say what I did here because you never know when the competition is reading. But, it is something that I will now tell people when I am at their house ready to paint. I'm going to do one in my house too.

I like the looks of your mural area though. Hope the pics turn out.

Jeff

Night Sky Murals

FaceBook
Hairs On Neck... Please Stand!

NightSkyMurals is offline  
post #254 of 779 Old 02-06-2011, 09:03 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Tom Hilton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: North Carolina, USA
Posts: 1,379
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by NightSkyMurals View Post

Hey Tom...

In case you still have your candles up in your theater room, can you try one more thing? Do you have any candle holders; the kind where you put the candle into the holder and it has a top on it,or some type of cover? Or, any kind of candle holder that will allow light out of it, but just not up towards the ceiling? If so, can you try that experiment again with that type of candle holder? I am wondering if the stars would wash out as much with the upward traveling light was blocked.

In the picture that I have on this thread, the one with the black lights around it and the stars visible... I sat in that theater with the BL on and with them off, while a movie was playing. And, because his 3 foot deep soffit blocked the light from the projector and the screen from hitting the ceiling directly, the stars were very visible during the movie. After about an hour (after he turned off the Black Lights) there were a lot of stars visible. Then, after the hour, a night sky, similar to a darker area of a city, were visible.

Anyway, in case you have nothing better to do. I will also try that experiment too... if I can find something to put some candles in. If not, then I will block the candle light with a plate or magazine... to see. Thanks for doing what you did though. I am getting great ideas and you guys are helping me out a lot here too. So, thanks to everyone here who is asking questions and answering them too!

Jeff


Hi Jeff,

My candle holders are not the type you described...but I'm thinking of ways to use the candles/holders I have on hand, so as to minimize the candlelight that reaches the ceiling. I'll figure out something and make some observations later this week.




Quote:
Originally Posted by NightSkyMurals View Post

I painted one of the coolest (showing my age with that word, eh?) murals the other night and the customer was so excited that he told me he'd have a picture emailed to me before I got home. Within 10 minutes I got a text telling me that it wouldn't work. But, he is going to try with some better equipment later this week. So, I hope that you have a long exposure on your camera. :-)

But, I've got to say that that mural came our soooo nice! I won't say what I did here because you never know when the competition is reading. But, it is something that I will now tell people when I am at their house ready to paint. I'm going to do one in my house too.

Jeff

Your comments have definitely fired up my curiosity, Jeff!


Tom

Tom


The world is more than we know...more than we imagine...more even than we can imagine.
Tom Hilton is offline  
post #255 of 779 Old 02-07-2011, 05:42 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
NightSkyMurals's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Based in Salt Lake City, UT... but most of my work is done all over the USA and Canada. I cover all areas.
Posts: 473
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Hilton View Post

Hi Jeff,

My candle holders are not the type you described...but I'm thinking of ways to use the candles/holders I have on hand, so as to minimize the candlelight that reaches the ceiling. I'll figure out something and make some observations later this week.

I look forward to getting the results. I'm thinking that if the candles are in some kind of candle container... that it should work. I am sure that there will be washout, but not as badly. I still plan on doing my own test too... whenever I get a second to breathe.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Hilton View Post

Your comments have definitely fired up my curiosity, Jeff!

Tom

Oh, it is just something that was pretty simple to do, but changed the look of the mural and made it look even more 3D.

Night Sky Murals

FaceBook
Hairs On Neck... Please Stand!

NightSkyMurals is offline  
post #256 of 779 Old 02-09-2011, 03:58 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Tom Hilton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: North Carolina, USA
Posts: 1,379
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Okay, back to the candlelight experimentation...

Jeff, I placed the candles at three locations on the floor under three chairside tables, which have nothing beneath the table top except three legs. This arrangement acted somewhat like a candle holder with a canopy above the candle and substantially reduced the amount of light reaching the ceiling.

Compared to uncovered candles, this tactic allowed considerably more stars to become visible. Directly above the tables a great deal of the mural could be seen, but the flickering light that the table tops couldn't block still washed out significant portions of the ceiling. Overall, the effect was spotty---IMO, better than using uncovered candles but not as nice as more complete darkness. This is a little difficult to describe for those who have not seen a night sky mural: The star field's illusion of "depth" is compromised when too many of the stars are lost due to a more dominant light source. All that said, it just depends on how much of the illusion you are content with seeing...the flickering candle light has its own attraction as well. I'm learning to enjoy the mural in various ways as I experiment, but I still prefer the full effect with a very dark ceiling. I should also mention that too much light in the room tends to unmask any objects on the ceiling, like vent covers, light fixtures, etc., which diminishes (for me) the overall illusion of the painting.

Now, the candle experiment made me think of something else. Our HT has four uplights sitting on the floor and firing nearly straight up---they normally serve as accent lighting for some Corinthian columns that flank the area between the seats and the screen. These lights have a swivel base, so I thought I'd turn them toward the floor and let most of their light wash horizontally across the floor instead of vertically toward the ceiling. With sufficient dimming, the illumination of the room with just those four accent lights was much like candle light, though without the flickering. By manipulating the swivel bases, I was able to minimize the light splash toward the ceiling, even more effectively than by covering the candles. Anyway, this offshoot from the candle experiments turned into a discovery of one more way to view the mural.

Happy home theater-ing (and star gazing)!


Tom

Tom


The world is more than we know...more than we imagine...more even than we can imagine.
Tom Hilton is offline  
post #257 of 779 Old 02-10-2011, 01:24 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
NightSkyMurals's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Based in Salt Lake City, UT... but most of my work is done all over the USA and Canada. I cover all areas.
Posts: 473
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Tom.... you are amazing. Always willing to do whatever it takes. Thanks again! And, since you did your experiment, I thought that I ought to do one too. So, I grabbed a couple of candles and brought them back to my bedroom (where I fall asleep under my mural... no theater room yet). I lit them and it really washed out the stars. It looked like I went instantly from the middle of nowhere on a dark night... right to the heart of a big city, where all that was visible were only the major constellations.

Well, then I got to thinking too. That happens occasionally, and this was one of those times. And, I remembered that we had one of those candle holders that is pretty much enclosed, except for a lot of little holes and small design cutouts (Maybe I should design one with the NSM logo, eh?). Well, I put the candle that was the brightest in the holder and blew out the other one. I already knew that it would wash out the stars so I wanted to see what the other candle would do in that container. Well, it was pretty cool. It lit the room up and washed out stars, but not nearly as many. Maybe because the holes in the holder were aimed downward and there weren't any really large cutouts. It was actually kind of nice... but you're right Tom, a completely dark room is the best way to enjoy the night sky. But, this does open up possibilities.

I get massage therapists who want to put murals in their massage rooms. And, though I've done it, I always let them know that they will either need to have black lights turned on too if they want to have candles flickering or low lights shining. But, maybe with these enclosed holders... they can get the low light they need and still have a nice mural for their clients to relax under.

I'm glad this question came up!

Jeff

Night Sky Murals

FaceBook
Hairs On Neck... Please Stand!

NightSkyMurals is offline  
post #258 of 779 Old 02-16-2011, 04:18 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
NightSkyMurals's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Based in Salt Lake City, UT... but most of my work is done all over the USA and Canada. I cover all areas.
Posts: 473
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Hey Tom... I was thinking that I wasn't really fair to you after you'd done all of that experimenting with the candles... and then were curious about that new design that I mentioned.

So, here's what it is. The customer got a mural as a Christmas present from his parents, who'd already had me paint 4 or 5 other murals. It was supposed to be an 8 foot round circle mural that, as you know, would look like a big round skylight in the dark.

Well, his ceiling was such that I thought a rectangle mural would be better, and he agreed. I was basically going to just make it the size of his Kind-sized bed (the edges of the mural would follow the outline of the bed).

So, as I was laying it out, I was telling him about the different ceilings that I've painted on and I was going into my favorite types of ceilings to paint on (tray ceilings, ceiling with beams, etc.) and I started thinking. That's what happens with ADD... your mind is constantly thinking of new things.

So, I asked him if he trusted me to do a nice mural for him... even if it wasn't just a normal rectangle mural? He told me to go for whatever I wanted... and he left to take his wife to dinner.

Here's what I did, and it may not sound like much and I've done similar things before but, I painted the outline of the bed... and then I painted the mural so that it looked like there were cross bars (like a large window would have in it for support) going through it.... with one down the center of the length and one across the width. Does that make sense?

So in the dark, you see the constellations, the smaller background stars and Milky Way, but they are broken up by the cross bars that look like little beams in it. What it does is it breaks up the mural into 4 sections and the silhouette of the bars give it an added 3D look. When he got home, I had already locked up and was on my way home... but I'd only gotten a mile from his house (we must have just missed each other) I got a text message telling me that he was blown away. And, to be honest, it did look pretty dang nice if I do say so. :-)

Anyway, I need to book flights for Detroit, Indianapolis, West Palm Beach and Sacramento now. But, I wanted to tell you about that mural that I painted.

Hope it was worth the suspense! :-)

Jeff


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Hilton View Post

Hi Jeff,

Your comments have definitely fired up my curiosity, Jeff!

Tom


Night Sky Murals

FaceBook
Hairs On Neck... Please Stand!

NightSkyMurals is offline  
post #259 of 779 Old 02-16-2011, 06:48 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
NightSkyMurals's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Based in Salt Lake City, UT... but most of my work is done all over the USA and Canada. I cover all areas.
Posts: 473
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Hey Lawdog2K... would you mind posting a link to your thread that has those pictures you took of the Night Sky Mural in your theater? I can't believe that you got those pics of the mural in total darkness... and I'd love for people to see those. Very exciting! Finally some pictures of a mural without black lights on.

Night Sky Murals

FaceBook
Hairs On Neck... Please Stand!

NightSkyMurals is offline  
post #260 of 779 Old 02-17-2011, 02:10 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
NightSkyMurals's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Based in Salt Lake City, UT... but most of my work is done all over the USA and Canada. I cover all areas.
Posts: 473
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 26
LawDog2K just told me about some pictures that he'd taken of the ceiling I painted for him. If you've been following this thread you will remember his ceiling (from previous pictures) as the one with the really nice day-sky painted on it... and tiny little airplane.

Well, he used a serious camera this time and the pictures are incredible, which even includes pictures of the mural in total darkness (That is something that I have been promised by customers for years... and he's finally broken through the impossible and captured some).

Now, I am going to post them (with his permission) but I want to just say that in the two dark pictures that I am posting, I added lines in one to show where his soffit is and then in both of the dark pics, I took out a fairly bright, glowing, fire alarm light. I also added a few stars in two or three small areas where the camera didn't pick them up. I asked LawDog to look at the pictures first, to be sure that they are like the real ceiling and not over done. He said that they represent the ceiling well.

I will also include a picture of the stars under a black light, where you can kind of see the day-sky and also the stars. This will show what Tom Hilton was saying about the mural looking OK under black light, but much better in the dark. OK... nuff said:

(Total darkness with the soffit outline added in)




(Close-up of the mural...)




(With the Black Lights on...)


Night Sky Murals

FaceBook
Hairs On Neck... Please Stand!

NightSkyMurals is offline  
post #261 of 779 Old 02-17-2011, 02:11 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Tom Hilton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: North Carolina, USA
Posts: 1,379
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by NightSkyMurals View Post

Hey Tom... I was thinking that I wasn't really fair to you after you'd done all of that experimenting with the candles... and then were curious about that new design that I mentioned.

So, here's what it is. The customer got a mural as a Christmas present from his parents, who'd already had me paint 4 or 5 other murals. It was supposed to be an 8 foot round circle mural that, as you know, would look like a big round skylight in the dark.

Well, his ceiling was such that I thought a rectangle mural would be better, and he agreed. I was basically going to just make it the size of his Kind-sized bed (the edges of the mural would follow the outline of the bed).

So, as I was laying it out, I was telling him about the different ceilings that I've painted on and I was going into my favorite types of ceilings to paint on (tray ceilings, ceiling with beams, etc.) and I started thinking. That's what happens with ADD... your mind is constantly thinking of new things.

So, I asked him if he trusted me to do a nice mural for him... even if it wasn't just a normal rectangle mural? He told me to go for whatever I wanted... and he left to take his wife to dinner.

Here's what I did, and it may not sound like much and I've done similar things before but, I painted the outline of the bed... and then I painted the mural so that it looked like there were cross bars (like a large window would have in it for support) going through it.... with one down the center of the length and one across the width. Does that make sense?

So in the dark, you see the constellations, the smaller background stars and Milky Way, but they are broken up by the cross bars that look like little beams in it. What it does is it breaks up the mural into 4 sections and the silhouette of the bars give it an added 3D look. When he got home, I had already locked up and was on my way home... but I'd only gotten a mile from his house (we must have just missed each other) I got a text message telling me that he was blown away. And, to be honest, it did look pretty dang nice if I do say so. :-)

Anyway, I need to book flights for Detroit, Indianapolis, West Palm Beach and Sacramento now. But, I wanted to tell you about that mural that I painted.

Hope it was worth the suspense! :-)

Jeff


Jeff, that is an interesting effect.

The technique you described reminded me of a photo I think I saw on your website---it was a room with a mural sectioned as if beams were crossing the ceiling. As I recall, that room had a higher than usual ceiling as well, which itself seemed to enhance the mural's illusion of depth.

So, I think I see what you mean. Those "simulated" beams can frame the star field in a way that uniquely engages the imagination of viewers. Even though the beams block a few areas where stars would otherwise be visible, the blocked areas also invite the viewer to imagine a sky window and to use the mind's eye to complete a larger picture. Pretty cool!


Tom

Tom


The world is more than we know...more than we imagine...more even than we can imagine.
Tom Hilton is offline  
post #262 of 779 Old 02-17-2011, 02:21 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
NightSkyMurals's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Based in Salt Lake City, UT... but most of my work is done all over the USA and Canada. I cover all areas.
Posts: 473
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Thanks Tom.... and the other pictures on my site are of ceilings with actual
beams on them. That is why this one was so fun to do... because I created the illusion of beams where there were none. I've played around with them before, but he is the first one that said... "Do whatever you want", so I did. :-)

And, you're right... you lose a few stars, but I think that you gain so much more. But, either way is nice. Who doesn't like a night sky, either in the country or through some beams?

You guys warming up yet? I need to get out your way again and you've had storm after storm after storm.

Jeff


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Hilton View Post

Jeff, that is an interesting effect.

The technique you described reminded me of a photo I think I saw on your website---it was a room with a mural sectioned as if beams were crossing the ceiling. As I recall, that room had a higher than usual ceiling as well, which itself seemed to enhance the mural's illusion of depth.

So, I think I see what you mean. Those "simulated" beams can frame the star field in a way that uniquely engages the imagination of viewers. Even though the beams block a few areas where stars would otherwise be visible, the blocked areas also invite the viewer to imagine a sky window and to use the mind's eye to complete a larger picture. Pretty cool!


Tom


Night Sky Murals

FaceBook
Hairs On Neck... Please Stand!

NightSkyMurals is offline  
post #263 of 779 Old 02-18-2011, 12:13 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Tom Hilton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: North Carolina, USA
Posts: 1,379
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by NightSkyMurals View Post

Thanks Tom.... and the other pictures on my site are of ceilings with actual
beams on them. That is why this one was so fun to do... because I created the illusion of beams where there were none. I've played around with them before, but he is the first one that said... "Do whatever you want", so I did. :-)

And, you're right... you lose a few stars, but I think that you gain so much more. But, either way is nice. Who doesn't like a night sky, either in the country or through some beams?

You guys warming up yet? I need to get out your way again and you've had storm after storm after storm.

Jeff


It's been nice around here for the last week and a half. It's 64 and partly cloudy right now---feels like Spring already. High temps lately have been in the mid 60's with lows around 40. According to The Weather Channel website (http://www.weather.com/outlook/healt...USNC0022?role=) we're supposed to have more of the same through the end of the February.

So we can't complain about the weather for now, though I always miss the leaves in Winter and will be glad when the trees return to full foliage, which is a couple of months away. Of course, you never know if Old Man Winter might reappear for his last hurrah of the season. For some reason, it doesn't "feel" like that's going to happen this year...we'll see.

You're most welcome whenever you can make it, Jeff.


Tom

Tom


The world is more than we know...more than we imagine...more even than we can imagine.
Tom Hilton is offline  
post #264 of 779 Old 02-18-2011, 12:39 PM
Member
 
lawdog2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 156
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by NightSkyMurals View Post

Hey Lawdog2K... would you mind posting a link to your thread that has those pictures you took of the Night Sky Mural in your theater? I can't believe that you got those pics of the mural in total darkness... and I'd love for people to see those. Very exciting! Finally some pictures of a mural without black lights on.


Sure! Here's the link to the whole thread.....The most up to date pics are on post #88

Lawdogs thread

"Can I borrow your towel? My car just hit a water buffalo."
Ronnie
XBL Tag: HKK Lawdog2k
Webshot pictures
Flikr pictures
Click here to see my DVD's
lawdog2k is offline  
post #265 of 779 Old 02-18-2011, 04:01 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
NightSkyMurals's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Based in Salt Lake City, UT... but most of my work is done all over the USA and Canada. I cover all areas.
Posts: 473
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Tom... thanks for the update on the weather. You know, old man winter has a way of making you think that winter has arrived out here... and then coming back with a warm month just to keep you off guard. Same in the early spring. You think that you can start planting your tomatoes and peppers... and then we get slammed with a month of snow again. So, it sounds like you have the same situation out there. By the way, if I am close by, I'd love to drop by and say hi to you guys.

Lawdog2k: Thanks for the link to your thread! Man, that room is looking nice!

Jeff

Night Sky Murals

FaceBook
Hairs On Neck... Please Stand!

NightSkyMurals is offline  
post #266 of 779 Old 03-18-2011, 12:59 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
NightSkyMurals's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Based in Salt Lake City, UT... but most of my work is done all over the USA and Canada. I cover all areas.
Posts: 473
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 26
I forget who I was telling this to, but Night Sky Murals was all set to be included in an article on "New Luxury Products" in Sotheby's "Reside" magazine (Very high-end mag), but the editor didn't like the quality of the pictures I sent them. He asked for new ones... but with the murals being so hard to photograph, I just didn't have any. That would have been some good PR! Anyone with a mural have any good pics you can send?

Night Sky Murals

FaceBook
Hairs On Neck... Please Stand!

NightSkyMurals is offline  
post #267 of 779 Old 03-18-2011, 06:28 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Tom Hilton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: North Carolina, USA
Posts: 1,379
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by NightSkyMurals View Post

I forget who I was telling this to, but Night Sky Murals was all set to be included in an article on "New Luxury Products" in Sotheby's "Reside" magazine (Very high-end mag), but the editor didn't like the quality of the pictures I sent them. He asked for new ones... but with the murals being so hard to photograph, I just didn't have any. That would have been some good PR! Anyone with a mural have any good pics you can send?

Hi Jeff,

I noticed a while back that lawdog2k had taken some very good photos of his mural. We have since communicated by AVS private messaging about how I might learn to take similar photos of my ceiling. The information he gave me was very helpful, though daunting to a photographic "neophyte" like me.

Anyway, here is a link to some of the photos that were posted in lawdog's thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...2#post20027152 . You'll need to scroll down through the pictures, where you will eventually see two photos of the mural (one with black light on and another with all lights off). I was thinking that these pictures might be (?) what you have in mind.


Tom

Tom


The world is more than we know...more than we imagine...more even than we can imagine.
Tom Hilton is offline  
post #268 of 779 Old 03-18-2011, 10:01 AM
Member
 
Tom Harness's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Olathe, KS
Posts: 71
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Most of these kind of magazines prefer hi-res eye candy photos. However, if lawdog2k has no objection, he has posted hi-res photos of his star ceiling mural along with some other room shots. I'm sure the mag would want some general shots of the room to 'set the scene' for the star ceiling. The link to his hi-res shots on flikr is http://www.flickr.com/photos/4016002...7625830661804/ You can click on the smaller pictures and then select larger sizes. Original size is pretty big.

The other room picture you posted recently that had the Columbia pictures logo on the screen is beautiful too. I'm sure the person who took those shots could provide you with some hi-res copies of the room and ceiling. Most people would be pleased to see their home in a prestige magazine.

Some of the other pictures you have posted also look like great examples to me if you can obtain the original images. The reduced size ones you use for the web won't cut it for a magazine.

Tom
Tom Harness is offline  
post #269 of 779 Old 03-19-2011, 12:46 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
NightSkyMurals's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Based in Salt Lake City, UT... but most of my work is done all over the USA and Canada. I cover all areas.
Posts: 473
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Hi Tom and Tom... I know about LawDog's pics, and he has already given me permission to use them. And, the picture that I used in the beginning of this thread is the picture that was refused by the editor... so I was at a loss of what to do. I asked the writer of the article what the editor wanted and she said something (like you said Ton Harness) that was extreme "Eye Candy". But, while I was looking through my pics (Lawdogs included) the writer wrote back to say that they had to pull Night Sky Murals from that particular piece because they needed to get the story submitted (I was only one of 10 "Luxury" products). But, she told me that she wants to use me in an upcoming article. So, we'll see.

I've had other high-end magazines do articles and each editor is different... so I'm just happy that I was even considered.

Thanks for your suggestions. And, Lawdog is the first to get some really good shots of the actual mural (not enhanced) in the dark. I am so excited about those pics!

Jeff

Night Sky Murals

FaceBook
Hairs On Neck... Please Stand!

NightSkyMurals is offline  
post #270 of 779 Old 03-19-2011, 08:56 AM
AVS Special Member
 
mcascio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Kenosha, WI USA
Posts: 3,780
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 66
Jeff,

I bought a professional camera last year that shoots great in low light conditions. I bought it specifically to take shots of the theater. Once I get my theater done, I'd be happy to take some shots. The wood just arrived so I'm hoping in a couple months I'll be ready for you.
mcascio is offline  
Reply Dedicated Theater Design & Construction

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off