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post #31 of 555 Old 08-20-2010, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post

Unless you have some experience with a concrete saw that is where you might want to hire some experienced help. You could do all the digging and window installation to save some money.

If you decide to rent a saw and have at it. remember you do the bottom cut FIRST.

I saw a guy cutting a wall one day at one of my construction sites that had obviously not known that. He's lucky he didn't get hurt when the saw flew out of the wall from the sudden pressure on the blade when the piece dislodged. It yanked him pretty good but no harm done. He'll never do that again I guarantee.

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post #32 of 555 Old 08-20-2010, 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by brausch View Post

I have a stage question for you guys. I am guessing there is a reason people fill their stages with sand but I haven't read the specific reason. I thought the sand was just used to keep the stage from shaking when the speakers were set on it...well with a short stage I will set the speakers on the floor, not the stage. Here is what I was thinking about doing, unless someone gives me a reason not to....

If I can just set my speakers on the floor instead of a stage I hope to get away from bringing all that sand down.

Now, beings I haven't seen this done before, I am guessing there is a reason it hasn't been done.

I did just that and it's working out fine so far. Fill your stage with insulation and save the sand for the beach
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post #33 of 555 Old 08-21-2010, 03:48 AM
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You have two rows of seating. You want to be certain the speakers are in direct line of sight to the people in the second row. That will generally place your speakers at a height equal to the center of the screen. So, while your stage may not be full depth, you will need to buy or build speaker stands for your L/C/R speakers.

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post #34 of 555 Old 09-02-2010, 02:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Well everyone, I haven't really been working on the basement because I am waiting for my brother to free up some time to help me on the plumbing and egress window. I have, however, been working on a little side project.

I am building a front set of 'Statement' speakers. I found the design over on the htguide site. They are starting to get close I have still have to cut the front and back baffle for the center and one front baffle for the center. I will take some pictures this weekend and post them up for you all to see. These things are frickin BIG by the way.

Hopefully the speakers are not a direct reflection on how I keep you all updated with my build thread. I will try to do better.

On a side note...first game of the year is tonight at 7. Wish us the best...it could be a long season.
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post #35 of 555 Old 09-03-2010, 07:35 AM
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I know what you mean. It sucks when you have to wait for the "help" to get on your schedule. At least you are being productive building something for the room. I can't say that just yet. Looking forward to seeing pics of your speaker build.

Caught some of the game last night. The o-line looked solid and that was a good win. Hopefully your QB throws a few more of those pics again next week . You guys have a tough schedule, but hope you get to a bowl again this year. Looks like you have a coach that is the right fit for the Clones again.
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post #36 of 555 Old 09-04-2010, 09:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Alright here are some pictures to prove that I haven't been totally slacking over the last couple weeks.

Here is a picture of a couple mid-tunnels glued up


Here is the baffle being glued for one of the mains.



Here is the base to the L&R speakers. The original plans called for a plain looking base. I took some design liberties and tried to make them look a little more pleasant.



Here is the main with the braces and mid-tunnels all glued up. Somehow my braces got glued up somewhat crooked...oh well, it will be hidden by the front baffle.



Here is the back being glued onto the center speaker. In the background you can see the front baffles for the L&R speakers leaning against their respective cabinets.



This is the center channel showing the mid-tunnel and bracing. The mid tunnel hole still needs to be routed.



Center with the front baffle set in place.



This final picture shows the back of the center channel with the port set in and the mid-tunnel hole also cut. I later went back and made a relief cut to let the port set flush with the back of the cabinet.




So thats where I am sitting right now. I need to make some relief cuts on the back side of the speakers so they can "breathe" which helps with the sound quality.

I have not decided how I am going to finish these yet. At some point they are going to get stuck behind an acoutically transparent screen to never be seen, they may just get a spray can coat of black paint to reduce the glare. If I ever decide to finish them later, that paint shouldnt be too much of a pain to veneer over.

The crossovers are going to limit my progress soon. There were some backordered components from Erse so I had to decide if I wanted to wait until the end of October to get the parts or order them from somewhere else. I ended up cancelling the order for the backordered parts and ordering from PE. The rest of the parts should be in by the end of next week.

I also need to install insulation and foam and binding posts, so there is plenty to keep my busy.

On a side note, I will be busy Sunday thru Tuesday (and hopefully next Saturday) at the Boone Supernationals. I pit for a guy that races in the sport mod division. The supernationals is the "super bowl" of dirt track racing - I am super excited.

Here is a picture of his car this year. 2010 Harris chassis. My buddy only has a couple of wins this season, but usually seems to run near the front.

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post #37 of 555 Old 09-14-2010, 12:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Well, supernationals is over and I am back to work. The speakers are in my living room, but I have not painted or done any finishing work. They will likely just get painted flat black because they will be hidden behind an AT screen at a later date (probably a couple years).

Here is the speaker sitting next to my old tower speaker...quite the difference.


And here is the 'guts' of the speaker...minus the port and the mid-tunnel foam.


I did a little 2 channel listening and can say I am quite impressed - they are supposed to keep getting better and better during the 10 hour break-in period...can't wait.

I am waiting on a 5 ohm resistor before I can finish my center channel crossover - but that is due in any day now.

Work is getting super busy this fall, so progress won't be mind-blowing but better than nothing.

I have a few questions into the building inspector right now, once I get a few answers I will pull permits and start the dirty work.

Hey GWCR - were those 3 interceptions enough for you...or were you looking for a couple more?!? Haha. That was an embarrasing day to be a Cyclone fan! Oh well, better luck this week...hopefully!
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post #38 of 555 Old 09-14-2010, 02:16 PM
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Brian, if you haven't already done so you should head on over to the "Area Home Theater Meets" forum and check out the Iowa thread. I believe guamguam built a stage similar to yours and Deewan has built a pair of Statements. It might be helpful to bounce some things off of those guys.
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post #39 of 555 Old 09-15-2010, 01:05 PM
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More importantly, did you catch any of that game this past weekend? Man that was brutal!

-Suntan
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post #40 of 555 Old 09-15-2010, 01:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Brutal would be an understatement (in my mind). I am a pretty big die-hard fan, but I quit watching after the 3rd quarter and just listened to it on the radio....even John Walters didn't have anything good to say.

If the Hawkeyes play that well all year, they will be pretty hard to beat. I will be rooting for them - hopefully they don't give an easy one away this year.
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post #41 of 555 Old 10-04-2010, 12:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Well I had to go back to page 5 to find my thread!

I took my plans to city hall a week and a half ago and got the phone call this morning that I can come pick up my building permit. So over lunch I ran over and picked that up - my wallet is a little bit lighter, but I just as well do this thing the right way.

I have a question for someone. What is the best way to find a plumbing vent line to tie into? The only pipes visible from the basement are sanitary pipes - no vent pipes. Everywhere up stairs is finished with drywall...

I am planning on cutting into the wall in the laundry room in search of a suitable vent pipe to tie into...unless someone has a better idea.

Any help or approval is appreciated.

Thanks again!
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post #42 of 555 Old 10-04-2010, 05:01 PM - Thread Starter
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A couple more pictures before I go back to work for a while...

Here is one of the statement mains painted flat black...


Here is a pic of both mains and the newly completed center (the last 5 ohm resistor finally came in so I could finish the crossover)


And totally off topic - but I just ran across the picture - is the poker table I built last year....turned out pretty nice.



Thats all for now - although I would really appreciate some input on finding a suitable vent pipe...see my post above.

Thanks all.
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post #43 of 555 Old 10-05-2010, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brausch View Post

I am planning on cutting into the wall in the laundry room in search of a suitable vent pipe to tie into...unless someone has a better idea.

Any help or approval is appreciated.

Thanks again!

Ok, this is not one of my finer ideas I'll grant you, but I've been thinking about this off and on, and it's all I could come up with.

Assuming your plumbing vents are exiting through the roof, send someone up there to tap on the thing, if no one will volunteer I suppose you could tape the headphones to iPod to it. Then you can go down into you basement and listen to the walls. Your best bet would be a stethoscope (even a cheapo toy or automotive one I would suspect), but you could also use a glass or just put your ear up to the wall. If you're lucky (or unlucky I suppose) the pipe will be touching the framing in the basement somewhere, and you will be able to hear the tapping enough to isolate where the pipe is.

Again, don't judge me on this example of my intellectual acuity

Dude, are you made of leprechauns? Cause that was awesome!

The Plains Theater Has Begun
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post #44 of 555 Old 10-05-2010, 04:58 PM
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Just out of curiosity is that statement next to a Polk r50?
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post #45 of 555 Old 10-05-2010, 05:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mojo_13 View Post

Just out of curiosity is that statement next to a Polk r50?

Yes, if you are familiar with the R50 it gives you a good idea of the sheer size of the statement line of speakers! Jim Holtz also has a line of "mini-statements" that would be slightly larger than the R50's. There is also another line of smaller "statement monitors".

The statements have found a permanent home in my living room until the theater is finished. I can't put them away! My wife isn't impressed...but I think she secretly likes them (at least that's what I tell myself).
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post #46 of 555 Old 10-05-2010, 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by brausch View Post

Yes, if you are familiar with the R50 it gives you a good idea of the sheer size of the statement line of speakers! Jim Holtz also has a line of "mini-statements" that would be slightly larger than the R50's. There is also another line of smaller "statement monitors".

The statements have found a permanent home in my living room until the theater is finished. I can't put them away! My wife isn't impressed...but I think she secretly likes them (at least that's what I tell myself).

I actually have a pair of the R50's that I use but my girlfriends father is in the process of building the mini statements. Wow I guess what they say is true about those statements they are HUGE.

On another note, hope you had fun at Nationals. I am originally from Boone and lived their for over 20 years, Nationals was always a good time.
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post #47 of 555 Old 10-12-2010, 10:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mojo_13 View Post

On another note, hope you had fun at Nationals. I am originally from Boone and lived their for over 20 years, Nationals was always a good time.

I had a great time at nationals. The buddy of mine that I help weekly got a flat running 4th in the big dance, and another good friend actually won.

On a theater related note, I might be able to start working on my basement soon! I have a huge project at work going out Wednesday night or Thursday morning. Hopefully after that there will be no more 80+ hour weeks and I will have some time to put towards the basement.

Don't have to waste time watching the Cyclones any more...especially if they keep playing like they did last week!
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post #48 of 555 Old 10-27-2010, 12:37 PM - Thread Starter
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So I don't want to have to put and and rip down my soffits three times....so I have a question.

On the west side of the theater there are two duct mains running down the side. I plan on building a soffit around them when doing the rest of the room envelope. After that is done, I will decide if I want to install a matching soffit on the other three sides. This will allow me to install cans in the rest of the soffit without leaking sound outside the room.

I am a little hung up on the details of the soffit containing the ductwork.

Here is a picture of what I think should work...I am looking for comments to see if I am going about it wrong.



My main question is regarding the DC-04 clips and whisper clip/hat channels....

I am pretty sure I need DC-04#1 as shown in the picture above.

Do I need DC-04#2? Or can I just attach the soffit ladder straight to the joists? Are the DC-04 clips even strong enough to support a ladder and associated hat channel and sheetrock?

I just need to know if I am going overboard. Is the law of diminishing returns kicking in here? Can I get rid of the whisper clips/hat channel on the soffit portion?

I don't really know all the rules here. So I am hoping Ted or someone with experience can chime in here.

I am thinking I need DC-04 #1, but not #2. My reasoning is that the rest of the ceiling is only being isolated with whisper clips, so it wont hurt to have the soffit isolated the same way. The hole in that reasoning is that if its okay to only use whisper clips on the ceiling, why are DC-04 clips even needed for the walls?!?

By the way, progress is being made, but it isn't really theater related. I am currently in the process of digging out the egress window well to get ready to cut in my new window. I will take a couple pictures tonight...although they aren't very exciting.
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post #49 of 555 Old 10-27-2010, 02:34 PM
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I'm no expert, but this is my take on it.

If you're using whisper clips and channel, I don't think there would be much advantage to using DC-04s also.

When I get around to building my dedicated room, I'm going to use clips and channel on the ceiling only, and DC-04s on the walls and attach the DD to the studs.

There could be some increased decoupling I suppose, but I think Ted would be the best one to tell you.
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post #50 of 555 Old 10-27-2010, 02:57 PM
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You don't need the whisper clips on the short side of the soffit and in place of the dc04 #2 you could just use a series of Whisper clips and attach the soffit to the channel.

The dc04 are used to decouple your 4 walls from the ceiling joists. The whisper clips on the ceiling are going to decouple the drywall from the joists. Example: I'm not using the Whisper clips on my side wall since I build a staggered stud wall for my front & left side theater walls. The right & rear walls of my room are concrete so just standard 2 x 4 construction 1" away from the concrete walls. No need to use the Whisper clips on the side walls, a little extra money for the extra 2x4's but, saves money not using the clips.

I have not read through your entire thread but, if you are not building the soffit(s) to go around any obsticles it's best to just build the room as usual and then add the soffits after the two layers of drywall and then run your ducts in the soffit. The soffit will also need double drywall.
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post #51 of 555 Old 10-27-2010, 07:59 PM
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I agree with Tom & ICBM99. Use the clips you had budgeted for the walls to make individual runs to support your soffit ladders. You could build your soffit around your duct first before drywall, screwing it (ladder part) to the dedicated soffit hat. Then install dedicated hat channel/clip runs where you will be attaching the other three soffit ladders (providing you do those). Then DD the whole room, and install the three other soffits after DD. That's exactly what I did and it worked out just fine. I like the idea of the soffits being isolated from the joists. Not sure how much more isolation it provided, but it wasn't expensive to do.

The thing to remember is to take good measurements as to where those other three hat runs are as they will be buried after drywall.
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post #52 of 555 Old 10-28-2010, 11:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Here is an updated picture to incorporate the suggestions. I just want to make sure I have this correct.



What I changed:
1) I am now supporting the soffit ladder with whisper clips and hat channel instead of DC-04 clips.
2) I removed the clips/channel from the side walls (the DC-04 clips will be enough sound isolation for the walls)

I am not doing any staggered stud walls. I just wanted to verify that the DC-04 clips would take care of the sound isolation (and that I dont need any whisper clips or hat channel on the walls)

What kind of clip spacing do I need to use on the hat channel that will be supporting the soffit. It will be supporting not only horizontal drywall, but also the ladder framing and associated vertical drywall.
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post #53 of 555 Old 10-28-2010, 11:51 AM
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That should work fine in my opinion. I don't believe you need that section of track that is supporting the soffit underside section at the wall. Since your wall will be decoupled, attaching the soffit to the will will render that intersection decoupled as well. Just screw or nail up a 2x2 to the wall to attach the soffit to there.
I put my clips for the soffit ladder on every joist, or 16" centers to be safe. Here's a pic of my build which is exactly what you are proposing.



My wall was a bit problematic since it was under my main beam, but I used DC-04's to decouple it. You can also see the 2x2 nailed at the top of the wall for attaching the soffit, which was a piece of 5/8" OSB for the horizontal section.
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post #54 of 555 Old 10-28-2010, 12:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the info fotto! I would rather not do this all more than once if I can help it.

I do have a question for you though - why the osb for the first layer of the soffits instead of just drywall? Just for noise or strength? OSB is cheap so I have no problem doing it, I would just like to know why I am doing certain things.
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post #55 of 555 Old 10-28-2010, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brausch View Post

Thanks for the info fotto! I would rather not do this all more than once if I can help it.

I do have a question for you though - why the osb for the first layer of the soffits instead of just drywall? Just for noise or strength? OSB is cheap so I have no problem doing it, I would just like to know why I am doing certain things.

I built my soffit "ladder" using OSB not traditional 2x2 in stick build fashion. Just thought it was easier and would be more stable. I just ripped the OSB to dimension (height) needed and screwed a 2x2 to the bottom portion. I pre-fastened the upper 2x2 to the track first, and then just held up the OSB ladder and fastened it to the mounted 2x2. I cut the OSB a bit short at the end of an 8' section in order to have some overlap where the 2x2 8' sections met for additional stability (hope that makes sense).

I used the OSB on the bottom for strength due to the span I needed which I believe was about 2'.
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post #56 of 555 Old 10-28-2010, 01:02 PM
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You don't need the Clip/hat channel at the inside corner. Just bring the wood down on the inside corner untill level with the outside of your soffit. You are already decoupled with the dc04 and the string of whisper clips/hat channel on the other where the soffit come up to the ceiling. How is the wall using the dc04's being built? 2x4's? And what room is on the other side?
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post #57 of 555 Old 10-28-2010, 01:04 PM
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I also think your soffit plan looks fine. I agree with fotto - you only need 2x2s where the soffit meets the decoupled wall - no need to decouple there. Here is another pic of the same idea after the first layer of drywall (I used extra clips on the channel with the soffit face).


Clearly, I'm a man of action - just give me a few minutes to think about it.
Lewis Family Cinema 1.0

Lewis Family Cinema 2.0
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post #58 of 555 Old 10-28-2010, 01:12 PM - Thread Starter
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You guys are a great help!

Tom, it is a plain 2X4 wall, you also asked what is on the other side of the walls...three of the walls are just concret foundation. The non-theater side of the back wall is half mechanical room, a quarter A/V closet and a quarter hallway leading into an open room.

While we are on the soffit discussion, I may as well keep asking questions...

I plan on just throwing some batt insulation in the empty soffits, but what about the soffit where there is ductwork? I plan on maximizing headroom, so there if I try to stuff insulation between the duct and the bottom of the soffit, I would be ruining my sound isolation.

Is it worth lowering the soffit to put an inch of insulation between, or just leave out the insulation and just get it as close to the duct as possible without touching?
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post #59 of 555 Old 10-28-2010, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brausch View Post

I plan on just throwing some batt insulation in the empty soffits, but what about the soffit where there is ductwork? I plan on maximizing headroom, so there if I try to stuff insulation between the duct and the bottom of the soffit, I would be ruining my sound isolation.

Is it worth lowering the soffit to put an inch of insulation between, or just leave out the insulation and just get it as close to the duct as possible without touching?

I'm having a case of Deja Vu here....I think you were reading my mind (in the past) as I had same thought process. I believe a lot will depend on how much headroom you have to spare. Based on where the bottom of my beam was, I did have a couple inches space and tore some R-13 in half with plans to install it. With my wall construction, my bottom soffit section wasn't going up til drywall time. When they were drywalling/rushing along I had them help me fit the bottoms after they did the wall, and I was so rushed I forgot to put a couple sections of insulation in there.

So what's my point? I personally think trying to fit in a tiny thickness of insulation isn't worth it. I can't detect any sound leakage into that trunk duct at all even with the small portions of insulation I did get installed. So, I wouldn't give up the headroom if I had a choice.
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So, the 2x4 wall is already up? Ok, so it sounds like the other side is not going to be used for much else other than a/v gear and mechanicals but, on the wall that doesn't have concrete foundation behind it I would make a staggered stud wall instead of standard 2 x 4 construction if that wall is not up yet. simply 2 x 6 top and bottom and staggered 2 x 4's 16" on centers. This will decouple the theater side drywall with the drywall on the otherside. Kind of like using the whisperclips but, less money, just some extra lumber.
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