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post #1 of 75 Old 09-27-2010, 07:52 PM - Thread Starter
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After many, many months of absorbing as much as I could of the wealth of information here, I am ready to take a deep breath and post my theater build with the hopes of receiving the wonderful feedback this forum is known to bestow on newcomers.

As the post implies, this is my second foray into a dedicated DIY HT. Version 1.0, of which I will post pics when I am able, was a basement build in an older home with limited options. Version 2.0 is in the basement of the home we had built back in 2008. The room is 11.5' wide by 23' long with 9' ceilings( the long, skinny theater should be the name). If I had something to post to the "what I would do differently" post, I would have had knowledge of this forum before making framing changes to the room. I am kicking myself for not allowing 3 more feet of width at least. I guess v 3.0 will have that luxury. That was Mistake #1

The current HT build is part of an entire 1600 Sq Ft basement finish I started 12 months ago working on weekends. I am sure you all will appreciate it when I say that ORIGINALLY, the build included a card room, billiards room, bar, full bath, kitchenette, HT and an office for me.

Mistake #2
Now, let me preface this section by stating that I really do love my wife and value her opinion...on most things. However, after I had completed the electric, low voltage wiring I made the mistake of showing the wife the final concept of my well planned out man cave in a rendering application. At that point she took interest and the "cave" took on a new form: the card room became the craft room for her and my daughters, the billiards room was deemed unnecessary since both of my sons would be in college this year and the girls probably wouldn't play pool (fortunately we compromised and moved the card room into the billiards room). The bar turned into another bedroom in case one of the sons I had been looking forward to leaving returned for some reason (mind you, the first two stories of the home have 5 bedrooms...more than enough for my wife and I and all 4 kids to have their own bedroom). The bathroom, kitchenette, office, and HT remain in my possession.

Why do I tell you all of this? Guess which room took last place in the budget priority? You guessed, it, the HT. The office is done, the kitchenette is 90% finished, and I am finishing the bathroom now. I diverted my attention to getting her craft room 90% done (needs carpet still) so she would be motivated to open up the 'ole purse strings for the HT. The trim will be done in every other room within 2 weeks, which means it is now time to come full circle and start dedicating myself to my dedicated HT once again.

Not to dangle a carrot, but I will post pics of the layout and progress to date as I am able.

Dan


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post #2 of 75 Old 09-28-2010, 06:39 AM
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Sounds fun! Some pics will help. One big crossroads would be sound isolation or no sound isolation. You'll want to address that now rather than later if it's important.

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post #3 of 75 Old 09-28-2010, 06:45 AM
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Good luck on the build. You're not the first to have to finish the rest of the basement prior to the HT.

Bryan

I am serious...and don't call me Shirley.
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post #4 of 75 Old 09-28-2010, 09:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted White View Post

Sounds fun! Some pics will help. One big crossroads would be sound isolation or no sound isolation. You'll want to address that now rather than later if it's important.

Ted,

Sound isolation is my biggest concern at this point. HT v 1.0 was awesome because nothing could be heard in the upstairs bedrooms leaving me to watch late night movies without the worry of waking anyone. Oddly enough, I am concerned that sound isolation may be more of an issue in the new house even though the distance from the HT to the bedrooms is two and a half times greater than at the old house. All hardwoods on first floor and a wide open floor plan are contributing factors.

Pics coming as soon as I make my mandatory number of posts and am able to post pics. I am anxious to get some feedback, and thanks for yours.

Dan


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post #5 of 75 Old 09-28-2010, 09:51 AM
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Well, this isn't such an issue now. Certainly compared to later...

In general:

-Decoupled walls
-Decoupled ceiling
-Isolated ventilation
-Seal the door

Just to get you started.

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post #6 of 75 Old 09-28-2010, 09:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bpape View Post

Good luck on the build. You're not the first to have to finish the rest of the basement prior to the HT.

Bryan

Bryan,

I definitely see a theme of "distractions" getting in the way of the important stuff. I guess my priorities are not necessarily theirs, which can be good at times.

Dan


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post #7 of 75 Old 09-28-2010, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bpape View Post

Good luck on the build. You're not the first to have to finish the rest of the basement prior to the HT.

Bryan

At last a benefit of NOT having a basement.

(p.s. just posting so you can reply, get to five posts, and start posting some pictures and floorplans )


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post #8 of 75 Old 09-28-2010, 10:15 AM - Thread Starter
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I know pics are popular I am going to give it a shot. Here is a pic of HT 1.0 in the old house. The room was roughly 9' wide by 11' long, but we loved it. Pic #2 is the interim solution in our current family room. To Ted's point about sound isolation, the hardwoods reflect the sound so badly, one night when we first moved in, I snuck into the pantry to get some chips and my wife called out from upstairs "you don't need chips this late at night".

I have to hook up the Bose QC 3's so I can get good sound quality whilst not waking anyone on the second floor. Not necessarily a bad way to watch a movie, but far from immersive.
LL
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post #9 of 75 Old 09-28-2010, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justaguyinGA View Post

I snuck into the pantry to get some chips and my wife called out from upstairs "you don't need chips this late at night.

Maybe switch to gummy bears for the late night snack. They are quiet (other than the bag, but maybe Ted has a product to reduce crinkly snack bag sounds - there's a new market).


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post #10 of 75 Old 09-28-2010, 10:30 AM
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Not so sure the Bose QC 3's are going to give you "good sound quality".

Quote:
Originally Posted by justaguyinGA View Post

I have to hook up the Bose QC 3's so I can get good sound quality whilst not waking anyone on the second floor. Not necessarily a bad way to watch a movie, but far from immersive.


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post #11 of 75 Old 09-28-2010, 10:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marklabelle870 View Post

Not so sure the Bose QC 3's are going to give you "good sound quality".

While not ideal, compared to the alternative of listening to the television's built in speakers on a volume level of 5 where dialog is nearly undiscernable, the QC3's are great as an interim solution.

Dan


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post #12 of 75 Old 09-28-2010, 10:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Horstkotte View Post

Maybe switch to gummy bears for the late night snack. They are quiet (other than the bag, but maybe Ted has a product to reduce crinkly snack bag sounds - there's a new market).

It was the darned crackling bag that gave me away. Switched to pringles...no package noise other than the soothing little rush of air when you first crack the seal on them.

Dan


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post #13 of 75 Old 09-28-2010, 12:21 PM - Thread Starter
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More pics of current build. had to replace HD with blueprints I made. Looking for files now so I can upload layout for feedback...

Pics in order:
From bedroom to craft room (card room in between)
Craft room to bed room
Craft room cabinets
Playroom under stairs for my 6 year old (one of my wife's great ideas. The kids love it under there because it is "secret')
Shot of inside playroom

Still a total newb on the forum basics so bear with me on the pic uploads.
LL
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LL

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post #14 of 75 Old 09-28-2010, 12:24 PM - Thread Starter
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more pics...

From hallway to card room (former billiards room)
from card room looking into kitchenette
from card room bar area looking into HT
Full bath in hall area
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post #15 of 75 Old 09-28-2010, 12:40 PM - Thread Starter
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and finally the HT which is where I am concentrating my efforts in the next couple of weeks.

HT from bar area
HT from screen
HT from front of riser

Walls are painted, but I plan on putting acoustic treatments. Thanks to Chinadog for the great thread on his amazing Blazing Ridge HT construction. I have reviewed several other threads as well, and I am ready to start planning that aspect.

Small equipment rack back up to mechanical room on the other side for me to manage wires and provide A/C to the equipment rack itself.

Bar opening will be able to be covered by cabinet like doors with acoustic treatments on the HT facing side.

Contemplated a soffit, but read that it may not be necessary unless I want more bass trap. Still open to suggestions to assist with sound isolation as much as possible.

Yes, that is the water main behind the screen. PLEASE don't get me started on that FUBAR from the builder. I nearly walked away from the house because of it. I have extended the screen wall out from the exterior wall and insulated the phooey out of it to help. The proscenium will hopefully provide some assistance as well.

Yes, I will be building a proscenium

Wired for 7.1 with smurf tubing all over the place just in case I change my mind.

Would like as big a screen as possible, but prefer picture quality over quantity. Taped area is for 100" screen.
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post #16 of 75 Old 09-29-2010, 11:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Just testing pic upload from PB:
HT v 1.0

Dan


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post #17 of 75 Old 09-29-2010, 11:53 AM - Thread Starter
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For those people like me who don't like clicking thumbnails...

View from bedroom (former bar area) to craft room middle room is card room (formerly billiards room)


From craft room to bedroom


Craft Room Cabinets


My daughter's "hideout" entrance. Hated to waste the space under the under the stairs, and she and her friends love to play in there:


Kitchennette


Bathroom (just tiled floor and 2/3 of shower surround this weekend)


HT from snack bar in card room


HT from screen to bar area

Dan


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post #18 of 75 Old 09-30-2010, 12:42 PM - Thread Starter
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So the room is 11.5' X 23' X 9'. 2X6 non-staggered studs, r30 in all walls, R60 in ceiling joists, single layer of drywall glued and screwed. Also installed 1" insulated subfloor over concrete. I plan on installing linacoustic on the walls up to about 46", the batting the remainder of the distance to the ceiling, all covered in GOM.

In the drawing the top wall and screen wall are framed over a poured concrete foundation. The majority of the sound I would assume will go back and up, but I understand there are reflection points and other factors to consider.

Questions:

Soffit or no soffit? If I want optimize sound as best I can given my current configuration, it is my understanding that a properly treated soffit will assist in achieving better isolation, or am I a complete idiot in making that comment?

What bang for my isolation buck would I get by adding another layer of drywall? What is the marginal performance increase? Can the same gain in performance be achieved in other ways? I have read a lot of posts on this topic, and frankly it seems as though each theater is unique in some way, but that there are general rules to follow.

The subwoofer will probably be the biggest culprit of sound to reach upper floors, right? Do I need to put bass traps in all corners to minimize that? By doing so, do I sacrifice sound quality for sound isolation.

Aside from tearing things apart, what can I do now? I am a mere accountant and I am in need of some assistance in these areas.

Room Layout


Basement layout

Dan


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post #19 of 75 Old 09-30-2010, 01:38 PM
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Just my 2 cents here but, seems that you are mixing aspects of isolation and acoustic treatments based on your questions.

Like Ted mentioned earlier in the thread, isolation (seems that's what's important right now to address) will be based on decoupling, mass/damping etc. Right now, you have minimal of either. Walls are all coupled, single layer drywall attached directly to studs. Someone more astute than I will need to comment on how much bang for the buck you'll get by just adding another drywall layer on your coupled walls. That rear bar hole will most likely be a bugger to plug up from a sound isolation standpoint, but it may not matter if you can't incorporate some additional measures.

Adding bass traps will "trap some bass" and help with acoustics in the room, but I'm sure there will be plenty left over to reach out to other rooms due to current isolation situation. So, my read is they will help with your acoustics but have minimal impact on isolation. Same with soffit...treating a soffit will help with acoustics but won't do much to further your isolation goals. I don't think I'd put a soffit in just for that goal in mind.

Floyd

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post #20 of 75 Old 09-30-2010, 06:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Just my 2 cents here but, seems that you are mixing aspects of isolation and acoustic treatments based on your questions.

Makes perfect sense, and thanks for the feedback. I have read several threads about sound options for the theater and I definitely started to cross pollinate the two concepts.

So I have come full circle back to Ted's original response about isolation based on my original post about sound travelling. Unfortunately I want the best of both worlds, but if I had to choose one over the other, it would be isolation. At the end of the day not disturbing the herd upstairs will make my movie watching more stress-free. If I wake one of the kids or my wife, she won't be very happy. And we all know: If momma ain't happy, ain't nobody happy.

Dan


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post #21 of 75 Old 10-15-2010, 02:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Many thanks to Ted and others who posted here to get me started. I had read a lot but still felt like such a noob after reading those posts, that I had to go back and re-plan some more. Fortunately I have not gone too far down the road to completion that it is not too late to soundproof as best I can.

I only have one layer of 5'/8" drywall up, so I plan on going with the PAC RSIC V clips and the channel recommended by Ted on another post, then another layer of 5/8" drywall, GG, then one last layer of 5/8" drywall. I hate to sacrifice any width, but I am confident the loss of few inches will pay big dividends in the end.

One question though: two of the walls (screen wall and wall on left) are poured concrete, then 2X6 studs with R19 then the drywall; the other 2 walls are the same just minus the poured concrete foundation. Do I treat them with respect to sound isolation the same for uniformity, IOW could I use 1/2" drywall on 2 walls and 5/8" on the two without poured concrete behind them? Also, along the lines of the mass variable in the sound isolation equation, what is the marginal increase in isolation going from 1/2" to 5/8". Obviously the more mass the better, but I am trying to get the planning finalized since this is a bit of a detour from my critical path of getting the HT completed.

Dan


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post #22 of 75 Old 10-15-2010, 02:50 PM
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You say you had 1 layer of drywall up. You can't use clips and channel on top of drywall. Am I understanding this correctly?

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post #23 of 75 Old 10-15-2010, 06:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Ted,

Yes I do have drywall hung and finished. My original planning was WAY too little and I put the cart before the horse in the HT in that regard. I could have sworn I saw someplace that you could put clips on top of drywall. Now I feel kind of silly again for not doing more research. I guess the bright side is that I didn't just jump into installing anything more without asking here first. Many people have said it before but the members who post here are truly blessed with folks like you and others who step in and politely point out what could be done better.

I was hoping to avoid taking down the drywall we had already put up, not because of cost, but because I have to sell that solution to the wife. I know she will ask, so I will ask: are there other options to optimize the sound isolation given my current setup, i.e. one layer of drywall hung and finished? I could still do GG, then another layers of drywall, so I would have mass, dampening and absorption, but I would be missing de-coupling.

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post #24 of 75 Old 10-16-2010, 01:20 PM
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Thank you for your kind words.

By not decoupling, you'll have less success isolating low frequencies (bass). It's worth the effort at this point, I'd suggest

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post #25 of 75 Old 12-09-2010, 07:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Well the carpet arrived today so the rest of the basement build is finally complete. Will post finished pics soon.

Now I can devote all my time to the HT. As anticipated, selling the notion of ripping out the drywall went over like a lead balloon. The rest of the basement build was just too far along which meant the budget remaining was just enough to finish the HT as originally planned. However, we are adding GG and a second layer of 5/8" drywall. I realize that without decoupling my isolation will not be optimal, but it is the best I am going to get on this build.

Ordered equipment this week and I am so pumped. I was getting burned out with all the tile, trim, painting etc in the rest of the basement, the equipment will bring renewed motivation to drive on. It is going to be tough not to break everything out of the boxes to start playing, especially since the PJ arrives tomorrow. Will provide more updated pics this weekend.

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post #26 of 75 Old 12-10-2010, 07:03 AM
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Quote:
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As anticipated, selling the notion of ripping out the drywall went over like a lead balloon.

Remind her of this if she complains about the LF explosions later

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post #27 of 75 Old 12-10-2010, 07:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Ted

LMAO. I do really enjoy epic war movies like Saving Private Ryan and the Band of Brothers and The Pacific series. Any one of those should do the trick.

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post #28 of 75 Old 12-15-2010, 01:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Photos of finished basement

Kitchennette finished. REALLY like the look of the finished glass tile...hated working with it. Learned very early to plan the entire layout around the glass tile to eliminate the need to cut the glass tile which is next to impossible...at least it was for me. I was covered in glass shrapnel for a couple days after my first attempt.

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post #29 of 75 Old 12-15-2010, 01:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Game room finished

I am now in search of a nice large poker table and a pinball machine for guy's night out at my place.



Looking at the game room and exercise room (originally "The Bar" area) from the craft room. Hey, we all had to compromise someplace, right?

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post #30 of 75 Old 12-15-2010, 01:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Bathroom finished

Very important feature that was missing from basement build v 1.0.



...and the craft room for my ladies. "I love the smell of hot glue in the morning. Smells like...victory."


Exercise room finished. Now pushing the notion of gym membership so I can convert this back into a bar.

Dan


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