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post #211 of 602 Old 11-18-2010, 06:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by premiertrussman View Post
oh man....carbon bianchi frame with campy component group...yes plz. That bike makes my lemond look like kid stuff!



This is right after i got it, since then its at least gotten new handlebar tape and some real water bottle cages. I bought it used and got a pretty good deal. Hopefully someday ill have the cash for a different wheelset and a new saddle.
Hey , you are riding a bike of a legend. I have not received my bike yet, it is on order, apparently they don't have any anyway and it still may take some time. This will be my first carbon bike, so I am looking forward the forgiving nature of carbon. Although , some people don't like that feel, of carbon that is.


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post #212 of 602 Old 11-18-2010, 08:38 PM
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You need to get the screen up and the Vango hung. Then you'll really be happy.

Very nice theater.

Regards,
John

Regards,
John
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post #213 of 602 Old 11-18-2010, 08:43 PM
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Hi again,

Curious if there's been any progress on your pressure issue? Any measurements you feel comfortable sharing or correspondence with Dennis on the matter?


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post #214 of 602 Old 11-18-2010, 11:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dormie1360 View Post

You need to get the screen up and the Vango hung. Then you'll really be happy.

Very nice theater.

Regards,
John

Thanks John! I should be getting the screen very soon and then the PJ will be hung. Hopefully looking to have the theater ready to go within 2 weeks.


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post #215 of 602 Old 11-19-2010, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JapanDave View Post

Hey , you are riding a bike of a legend. I have not received my bike yet, it is on order, apparently they don't have any anyway and it still may take some time. This will be my first carbon bike, so I am looking forward the forgiving nature of carbon. Although , some people don't like that feel, of carbon that is.

Yeah i've read that too, but everything is a compromise, just like HT's. Some people say carbon is too "dead" but unless you are a sprinter...i can't imagine that being a problem. My bike has a steel spine and a carbon cockpit. I think it rides really well. I sometimes wonder if the carbon/steel frame was just a gimmick to sell more bikes, but i like the way it rides. Im a fairly big guy, (in the biking world...6'1" 195 pounds) so i ride a 57cm frame, and its nice to have the feel of steel frame, but save a bit of weight with the carbon cockpit.

Im sure you'll love your Bianchi. My wife rides a steel bianchi brava she got for real cheap. It was a rental bike from a bike shop in Cincinnati....it was the owners personal bike until he turned into a rental...and she liked it so much, we convinced him to sell it to her!

You'll have to post a few pics of your bike when it comes in. Gotta love that celeste green.


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post #216 of 602 Old 11-19-2010, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by premiertrussman View Post

Yeah i've read that too, but everything is a compromise, just like HT's. Some people say carbon is too "dead" but unless you are a sprinter...i can't imagine that being a problem. My bike has a steel spine and a carbon cockpit. I think it rides really well. I sometimes wonder if the carbon/steel frame was just a gimmick to sell more bikes, but i like the way it rides. Im a fairly big guy, (in the biking world...6'1" 195 pounds) so i ride a 57cm frame, and its nice to have the feel of steel frame, but save a bit of weight with the carbon cockpit.

Im sure you'll love your Bianchi. My wife rides a steel bianchi brava she got for real cheap. It was a rental bike from a bike shop in Cincinnati....it was the owners personal bike until he turned into a rental...and she liked it so much, we convinced him to sell it to her!

You'll have to post a few pics of your bike when it comes in.
Gotta love that celeste green.

That made me laugh!


I still have my 1989 celeste green Bianchi mountain bike.

Mike


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post #217 of 602 Old 11-19-2010, 04:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok , first of the measurements, I only used one sub in the back corner. All measurements are from the listening position. I hope this means something to someone, b/c I don't know what is means.

The sub only.


The mains,


The sub waterfall,


The Sub and mains RT60


LL
LL
LL
LL


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post #218 of 602 Old 11-19-2010, 04:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by premiertrussman View Post

Yeah i've read that too, but everything is a compromise, just like HT's. Some people say carbon is too "dead" but unless you are a sprinter...i can't imagine that being a problem. My bike has a steel spine and a carbon cockpit. I think it rides really well. I sometimes wonder if the carbon/steel frame was just a gimmick to sell more bikes, but i like the way it rides. Im a fairly big guy, (in the biking world...6'1" 195 pounds) so i ride a 57cm frame, and its nice to have the feel of steel frame, but save a bit of weight with the carbon cockpit.

Im sure you'll love your Bianchi. My wife rides a steel bianchi brava she got for real cheap. It was a rental bike from a bike shop in Cincinnati....it was the owners personal bike until he turned into a rental...and she liked it so much, we convinced him to sell it to her!

You'll have to post a few pics of your bike when it comes in. Gotta love that celeste green.

Will do. For the roads around here I would much prefer "dead" bike, which is why I went for the carbon. I am also really looking forward to the Campagnolo group set, a lot of people have a very high opinion of them.


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post #219 of 602 Old 11-19-2010, 05:57 PM
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Hi,

Could you change the resolution of your graphs a little. For the mains frequency response set your dB limits from approx 40 to 105dB and smooth the response to 1/12 octave rez and set your frequency limits at 20hz to 20khz. . For the RT60 graph your graph has a resolution of 1 second, change that to a rez of .1 and adjust to 1/3 octave bands from the 1 octave presently shown. For the waterfall reduce the frequency range to about 150hz and increase the max dB to to 120dB and the lower dB limit to 50 or somewhere around there.

From the RT60, as it is, it looks like the values might be low, slightly below .2 to slightly above .2 it from 200hz up which would be considered on the low side leaving the room sounding a little anechoic or overdamped.

Is the mains graphs both speakers driven or one? Graph one if not already.


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post #220 of 602 Old 11-19-2010, 06:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok redid the graphs.
Mains


Sub


Sub and mains RT60


Sub waterfall

LL
LL
LL
LL


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post #221 of 602 Old 11-19-2010, 06:41 PM
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Sorry, forgot to ask last post. Could you also provide the impulse response in "dB FS"


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post #222 of 602 Old 11-19-2010, 06:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hughman View Post

Sorry, forgot to ask last post. Could you also provide the impulse response in "dB FS"

For the mains or sub or both?


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post #223 of 602 Old 11-19-2010, 06:57 PM - Thread Starter
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I did both anyway,

Mains



A closer look at the mains,



Sub



What does all this mean?
LL
LL
LL


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post #224 of 602 Old 11-19-2010, 07:15 PM
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Just the mains. Also for the waterfall can you extend the time range 600ms. I'm not saying I'm qualified to make the necessary recommendations but the graphs posted in this manner will definitely aid others who are.

Just from a cursory view your primary area of concern is the low RT60 above 100hz which definitely could be the cause or a contributor to the weird ear sensations you spoke of. The FR of the main looks ok but you'll likely require eq'ing and a close look at the cause of the dips at 323 and 900hz, the 323 dip may be an SBIR result of the ceiling reflection just above the speaker, could be something else it's difficult to say. There's not much point zeroing in on the front speakers response until the room decay times are addressed, one's solution with effect the other. The subwoofer plot is of no concern at this point with two more yet to be installed up front.

Also change the time axis to 20-30ms


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post #225 of 602 Old 11-19-2010, 11:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hughman View Post

Just the mains. Also for the waterfall can you extend the time range 600ms. I'm not saying I'm qualified to make the necessary recommendations but the graphs posted in this manner will definitely aid others who are.

Just from a cursory view your primary area of concern is the low RT60 above 100hz which definitely could be the cause or a contributor to the weird ear sensations you spoke of. The FR of the main looks ok but you'll likely require eq'ing and a close look at the cause of the dips at 323 and 900hz, the 323 dip may be an SBIR result of the ceiling reflection just above the speaker, could be something else it's difficult to say. There's not much point zeroing in on the front speakers response until the room decay times are addressed, one's solution with effect the other. The subwoofer plot is of no concern at this point with two more yet to be installed up front.

Also change the time axis to 20-30ms

Thanks for the preliminary comment on the graphs. I forgot to answer a question you asked earlier, the mains response graph was of both the mains playing.

I don't have REW on this PC so to change anything on the graphs will have to wait until tomorrow, sorry.

What is generally considered a good RT60? And what about the bass RT60, is that of any concern. Sorry I have no idea what is good and bad, so I am just firing away questions here.


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post #226 of 602 Old 11-20-2010, 06:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JapanDave View Post

What is generally considered a good RT60? And what about the bass RT60, is that of any concern. Sorry I have no idea what is good and bad, so I am just firing away questions here.

I've read that RT60, in theory, is not valid in a small room due it being based on a diffuse sound-field which small rooms can not create. Regardless, the rooms decay signature can be measured using RT60 at least for relative purposes as a tool to achieve a satisfactory listening experience. I believe most try to target in the .3-.4 range which I presume is fine tuned to personal preference and room size. A quick check would indicate Dennis typically tries to achieve RT60 between .35 and 4. I personally like the high three range and would rather error on the side of liveliness than risk going too dead. To me anyway a room too lively sounds better than a room equally too dead.

Many of the experts generally feel that measurement of RT60 in the bass range is unreliable and shouldn't be trusted. If however your bass RT60 is accurate it looks very good, rising RT60 in the bass region is normal and a .45 figure at 50hz, if accurate, is impressive. I'm not very good at interpreting water-fall charts but would guess that you have room related issues at 20 and 30hz which will likely require eq to fix.


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post #227 of 602 Old 11-20-2010, 07:02 AM
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I really enjoyed your build thread, I love seeing this stuff come together. I really like the color of the carpet. I'll keep checking back to see the complete finished product.

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post #228 of 602 Old 11-21-2010, 04:04 AM
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I'd like to see a near field plot of each of your main speakers (individually). That would be an RTA with the microphone placed 1m from the speaker and aimed directly at the speaker. Aim the mic between the tweet and mid ... regardless keep the mic at the same height for each measurement.

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post #229 of 602 Old 11-21-2010, 04:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the insight Hughman.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mjfoster77 View Post

I really enjoyed your build thread, I love seeing this stuff come together. I really like the color of the carpet. I'll keep checking back to see the complete finished product.

Thanks, I have had a few more advancements, but the EQ'ing is taking preference right now. I will see if I can get some pics up soon.


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post #230 of 602 Old 11-21-2010, 04:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Erskine View Post

I'd like to see a near field plot of each of your main speakers (individually). That would be an RTA with the microphone placed 1m from the speaker and aimed directly at the speaker. Aim the mic between the tweet and mid ... regardless keep the mic at the same height for each measurement.

Ok Dennis. I will get back to you when I have the measurements done.


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post #231 of 602 Old 11-23-2010, 03:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok, I was doing a few things wrong in REW. But I am pretty sure I have it now. So some updated graphs.

First things first, this is the measurement of the lower Catalysts woofer at 1/2" set in Dolby PLII/Movie.

The center at 1m with 1/12th smoothing (Dolby PLII/Movie).

The Left at 1m with 1/12th smoothing (Dolby PLII/Movie).

The Right at 1m with 1/12th smoothing (Dolby PLII/Movie).

The sub with 1/12th smoothing (Dolby PLII/Movie).


The subs waterfall


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post #232 of 602 Old 11-23-2010, 08:01 AM
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Notice the L and R speakers' plots ... they are the same shape. You can almost overlay them on top of each other. Notice how radically different the center is...that is not correct. The only thing that appears to be the same is the 800Hz notch.

The sub appears to have a crossover set at 80Hz. If that is set in the sub, turn it off or move it up as high as you can. Turn on Bass Management in your prepro with an 80Hz Xover. There's some work to be done here once the other subs get installed.

Gotta find out why the near field for the L/R don't align with the center.

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post #233 of 602 Old 11-23-2010, 09:15 AM
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This is one of the fastest build threads -- and for an extensive build -- that I have seen.
The pics, graphic measurements, and commentary is awesome!

If I don't post again - Happy Turkey Day to everyone.

Mike


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post #234 of 602 Old 11-23-2010, 05:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Erskine View Post

Notice the L and R speakers' plots ... they are the same shape. You can almost overlay them on top of each other. Notice how radically different the center is...that is not correct. The only thing that appears to be the same is the 800Hz notch.

The sub appears to have a crossover set at 80Hz. If that is set in the sub, turn it off or move it up as high as you can. Turn on Bass Management in your prepro with an 80Hz Xover. There's some work to be done here once the other subs get installed.

Gotta find out why the near field for the L/R don't align with the center.

Hey Dennis, It could be my measurements are not accurate. I used Dolby PLII for all the Left , center and right measurements. Only one speaker was plugged at measurement time so I did not get a signal from another speaker by accident. What mode should I be performing the test in on the AVR for these nearfeild measurements? I guess it would correct to assume that all the mains need to be set to large for the test?

I just looked at the AVR and the 80 Xover is in place. I will redo that measurement.


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post #235 of 602 Old 11-23-2010, 05:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_WI View Post

This is one of the fastest build threads -- and for an extensive build -- that I have seen.
The pics, graphic measurements, and commentary is awesome!

If I don't post again - Happy Turkey Day to everyone.

Mike

Thanks mike, I have had some more stuff done on the theater, but these measurements are taking priority. I will get some pics of the sound treated sound proof doors.


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post #236 of 602 Old 11-23-2010, 05:30 PM
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Hi,

Try running your measurements without any processing activated. As Dennis has pointed out there's something wrong with the L/ R or center response which may be due to the Dolby mode used.


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post #237 of 602 Old 11-23-2010, 06:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hughman View Post

Hi,

Try running your measurements without any processing activated. As Dennis has pointed out there's something wrong with the L/ R or center response which may be due to the Dolby mode used.

Would that be dirrect mode or I believe the Integra DCH80.1 has a full mono mode setting? I am at a loss here myself, didn't realise how difficult REW actually is.


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post #238 of 602 Old 11-23-2010, 06:22 PM
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I'm not familiar with the Integra but I presume the direct mode would be the mode you want. Connect the out from your soundcard to the input on the preamp you wish to test.

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post #239 of 602 Old 11-23-2010, 06:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hughman View Post

I'm not familiar with the Integra but I presume the direct mode would be the mode you want. Connect the out from your soundcard to the input on the preamp you wish to test.

Have fun!

Are you talking about the multichannel inputs at the back of the AVR? I have been using the AUX on the AVR and disconecting all the speakers except for the one I want to test.


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post #240 of 602 Old 11-23-2010, 06:36 PM
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Are there 3 aux inputs, L, R and C? I'd definitely use the MC inputs on the back of the amp and switch to MC mode.


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