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post #361 of 1772 Old 01-13-2011, 12:36 PM - Thread Starter
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I had the HVAC guy over at my house this morning for routine maintenance on my furnace.

The Good: The furnace is 100,000 BTU and the A/C is 4 ton, which he said will be adequate to heat/cool the additional 2500cf of space.

The Bad: We looked around a bit and nearly all of my joist cavities are already full, either with pipes or supplies and returns, so it's going to be difficult to get additional runs over to the theater. I think I have the returns figured out, but the supplies are going to be tough...still thinking on this one...

Question: Common sense tells me that the supplies and returns need to be as far away from each other in the room as possible, but I'm just guessing here. Is that true? Or could I put the returns on the back wall and the supplies on the left wall and get away with it? Or would the other side of the room get too hot that way? I guess I just don't have a good handle on how well the air will disperse once it enters the room.

Thanks guys!

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post #362 of 1772 Old 01-13-2011, 01:06 PM
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Ask your HVAC guy what he recommends for your space. Having seen your furnace and space he might be your best bet for locating your supplies/returns. I had my space looked over and it was recommended for me to put supplies on each side of my space along the perimeter (which is most of the basement) and one large return in the middle that matches the new supply output. It seems like my house was built like this on the other floors too, one big return in the middle with the supplies on the perimeter.
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post #363 of 1772 Old 01-13-2011, 01:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey Barlav - thanks for the input! I think my house is constructed in similar fashion on the first floor - the main return trunk is much shorter than the main supply trunk - most of the returns are located near the center of the house and the supplies are generally located around the outside walls.

Unfortunately, my HVAC guy didn't have much input on the location of the supplies/returns. He just told me that the system could handle it. Dennis, however, noted that all vents should be high mounted, with two supplies in the front of the room and two returns in the rear. I am all set with the returns in the back (I think), but the supplies are giving me a headache.

I am also trying to figure out if I'm going to need a dead vent outside the room (it would end up in my crawlspace). I am not going to have soffits, so I think I may...another question for Ted...

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post #364 of 1772 Old 01-14-2011, 07:29 AM - Thread Starter
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OK, here's the part where I show you that I have no experience with any CAD program. I wish I could draw the amazing renders like others here, but instead I asked my assistant to scan some very important documents for me.

So the attached .pdf has a copy of the HT floor plan and a copy fo the entire basement floor plan. I'm pretty confident that the returns will be adequate, but I'm still a little skeptical on the supplies. I also need to get in touch with Ted again (wow, I'm sure he's so tired of me now) to discuss sound isolation. I'm not going to have soffits in my room, so does that mean I need dead vents outside the room? Since it's a long run back to the main trunk, will all the sound be killed along the way in the flex duct? and does a lot of sound escape out of the flex?

ok main question for anyone with HVAC knowledge: will this plan work??

Thanks!

 

Basement Floorplan.pdf 49.87109375k . file
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Basement Floorplan.pdf (49.9 KB, 10 views)

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post #365 of 1772 Old 01-18-2011, 07:38 AM - Thread Starter
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I made a bit of progress over the weekend...I put up about 75% of the clips for the ceiling. I wanted to test fit and be sure the gas pipe wasn't going to create an issue. (Actually I put the clips up working right to left, then realized that I was going to run right into one of the water pipes on the left, so took all the clips down, and reinstalled from left to right. Oh well, it was good exercise...I guess .)

Here's a pic of the gas line between the rows of channel. You can't see from the pic, but there's about 1/16-1/8"" clearance there right now. I'm hoping that I might gain another 1/8" or so when the weight of the drywall is pulling down on the channel.


So here's an interesting pic...I guess I should start with a question: how likely/unlikely is it that one of the laminate structural beams in my house is warped a bit? I have measured each clip here about 18 times and every clip is exactly 72" from the beam. But the channel clearly looks like it has an arc to the left. Can anyone tell me what's going on here?


So even if the beam is warped, I should still keep the clips 72" from the beam right (assuming I'm starting with drywall up against the beam)? Otherwise I think I'm going to end up with trouble when I'm trying to fasten the seams of the drywall...

Oh and I got a new tool last night to cut out the bottom plates for my doors and to cut out some of those studs that have gone all spaghetti on me. I dont' have many tools have heard mixed reviews on DeWalt around here, but I have a DeWalt drill that I really like, and the price was certainly right. Probably not something I'll use all that much, so I couldn't justify the extra $$ for cordless...my co-worker says I'll regret that...we'll see...

And I guess you can see some of the blue smurf tube I got last night as well...I bet you can guess what tonight's project is...or should I be waiting until after my electrician comes to install the low voltage stuff?

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post #366 of 1772 Old 01-18-2011, 07:50 AM
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I had to cut all the ceiling drywall up against the walls. Did you take into account the distance to the stud, the first or the second layer of wall drywall? I actually think it is a good idea to have to cut the ceiling drywall up against the wall since you can fit each piece more accurately.

I don't know about the curved channel. It might bite you in the rear as you go along. I had a straight steel I beam so I didn't have to worry about that.

I think a corded sawsall is the way to go. It will have more power and be able to last longer on a job. Oh, *and* it's cheaper. I think I have that same one, btw and it works great.

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post #367 of 1772 Old 01-18-2011, 08:19 AM
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I'd think you'd want that channel to be straight.

measures the 2 ends and use a string between the 2 points to get a perfectly straight line.

Its be easier to scribe the 1 edge of the drywall at the beam side vs. every drywall edge that falls on a curved channel.
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post #368 of 1772 Old 01-18-2011, 08:21 AM - Thread Starter
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I have sort of a weird situation with the beam - there are no studs in front of it (they're underneath and then there's channel on the side of the beam), so the ceiling drywall will extend almost all the way to the beam (just 1/8" gap for SilenSeal). I wasn't planning on cutting that side of the ceiling drywall - I was going to start on the left wall and work right, and then (hopefully) I'll only have to cut the piece that's up against the right side wall.

My thoughts exactly about the channel as well...I hope it won't create an issue, but I think I'll just have to wait until it's drywall time in order to figure that one out.

I have also been thinking a lot about how I'm going to get 90 sheets of 5/8" drywall down my L-shaped basement stairs. This could be ugly. I would really like to use longer sheets for fewer seams if possible, but I think that realistically, I'm going to be lucky to get 8' sheets down there. If it comes down to it, I guess I can always demo part of the stairway wall and then rebuild it after I get everything down there...but I'd really like to avoid that if possible.


Oh - and for cutter and the others who have been interested, I ordered some of the AT-Core HVAC duct from Ted at The Soundproofing Company yesterday. It should be here in a few days (unless this ridiculous snowstorm continues!) and I'll post pics and a full report for you guys!

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post #369 of 1772 Old 01-18-2011, 08:23 AM - Thread Starter
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cklinejr - I think you're right. I have been thinking about this quite a bit and that seems to be the only way to go. I think I'll go back and snap a chalk line tonight and see how far off it actually is.

I think I'm also going to try some different pieces of channel. I guess they could be bent a little? It seems unlikely because I think the clips would straighten them out, but we'll see tonight I guess...

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post #370 of 1772 Old 01-18-2011, 08:36 AM
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Is it posted on the site? Is it sold by the foot or in different sizes or what?
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post #371 of 1772 Old 01-18-2011, 09:12 AM - Thread Starter
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I haven't looked for it on the website, but it is sold in 25' length increments (I believe). The price was very reasonable...I think about 30% less expensive than the same length of insulated flex duct I bought at Home Depot last weekend (I'll now be returning that stuff...). So I guess once you factor in the pink fluffy that will need to go around it, you're probably at about the same price as regular insulated flex, but with significantly better performance (a.k.a. buy this stuff for sure).

Thanks again Ted!

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post #372 of 1772 Old 01-18-2011, 01:01 PM
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the beams aren't really designed with side to side stability in mind but vertical loads. so it is possible that when the beam was stored it was stored on it's side and a warp developed.

use a chalk line down the beam to see how far out it is and also put one up for running the hat channel that way you will always be true.


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post #373 of 1772 Old 01-18-2011, 01:25 PM
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I can't find it on the site :shrug:
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post #374 of 1772 Old 01-18-2011, 01:26 PM
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It's brand new

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post #375 of 1772 Old 01-18-2011, 01:47 PM
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Yeah... well your site is old. Keep up with yourself ;-)

Do you like your floor decouplers? They're the U-shaped rubber things for decoupling a floor. Tell me, when you use them under a sub floor (like depicted in the first construction picture) do you nail/screw down the tongue/groove OSB or just let it float on these pads?
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post #376 of 1772 Old 01-18-2011, 01:50 PM
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Generally there are two sheets of subfloor on top. The two panels keep each other in check, and each panel is only secured to the other. No screws pass through the rubber into the joists. A true floating floor

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post #377 of 1772 Old 01-18-2011, 02:02 PM
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Would you nail/screw them together or be satisfied with their weight+GG to hold them together? Would you overlap them like hanging drywall for fewer seems or not care so much?
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post #378 of 1772 Old 01-18-2011, 02:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey Matt - thanks very much for your input. I do think the beam must be warped a little - I can't see any other way that I would be running into this issue. I'm going to spend the evening tonight "straightening" the issue out. And I will reinstall the clips if necessary...for the LAST TIME this time!!

Although all of that requries me to leave my office and deal with the ridiculous storm outside! We'll see when that actually happens...

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post #379 of 1772 Old 01-18-2011, 06:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AirBenji View Post

Hey Matt - thanks very much for your input. I do think the beam must be warped a little - I can't see any other way that I would be running into this issue. I'm going to spend the evening tonight "straightening" the issue out. And I will reinstall the clips if necessary...for the LAST TIME this time!!

Although all of that requries me to leave my office and deal with the ridiculous storm outside! We'll see when that actually happens...

meh no probs glad I can be of help. I have run into quite a few warped structural pieces in my time so it's not hard to extrapolate that the beam would warp too if not stored properly. like as has been stated earlier chalk line or a piece of string held at each end will be a straight line, just measure from the two ends of the beam (where it will likely be most true as that was probably the only spots it was measured at) and you should be nice and square and true.

to see if you are squared up for a rectangle or a square there is a simple trick you can do, just measure the two diagonals, if they are the same then you are sqaure if not then one hypotenuse is longer then the other and thus you are out of square. you can do this if you are wondering if your hat channel is running perfectly parallel to your walls.

and remember A^2 + B^2 = C^2

i hear yah about the storms, though it's not storming here currently it was only a day or so ago and we are now trying to dig out of it, and of course it's -25c and the roads are all black ice...

be careful out there driving, people are friggin nutty..

Matt

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post #380 of 1772 Old 01-19-2011, 08:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Great post Matt. Thanks again.

Last night I checked everything with a chalk line and with my laser level (that laser level has turned out to be much more useful than I ever expected - it's perfect if you just need a straight line etc. to work from). Shockingly, everything was very close to straight. There were one or two clips that were off, but nothing more than 1/8". I think there were a few factors that made the curve look worse than it actually is - 1) the channel was torqued and twisted a little bit while it was up there, and 2) the crappy lighting made things look worse than they were. Anyway, false alarm. Everything seems to be fine, and I got the remainder of the clips up last night (although I need a few more from Ted) and test fit all of the channel, and it looks pretty good I think.

Today's Project: Order Lights. I think I'm going to get the Halo 1499 RT's, as that's what Dennis suggested in my plans. Has anyone else used these? I don't know which trims to buy, but I guess that can wait for later.

My electrician is scheduled for one week from today, so I have quite a bit of work to do! I need to cut out and replace the studs that have warped - I was initially really happy with Marjam, but the wood I purchased has warped like crazy since I put the studs up, which really sucks. I guess I also need to get a hand planer like big suggested to fix the studs that have warped just a little bit.

Oh, and I used the sawsall to cut out the bottom plate for the door opening last night...it was great. It's amazing how much easier it is to do stuff when you have the right tool for the job...

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post #381 of 1772 Old 01-19-2011, 08:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AirBenji View Post

It's amazing how much easier it is to do stuff when you have the right tool for the job...

That's why your tool inventory should grow nicely by the end of the build. You'll be looking for other things to use them for (like a shed) after you're done.
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post #382 of 1772 Old 01-19-2011, 08:29 AM
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Wow, that really looked curved to be out only 1/8". If that is the case, you'll be fine.

All wood can warp....never mind cheap 2x4s. That is why (expensive) wood furniture is built to accomodate warping/expansion/contraction.

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post #383 of 1772 Old 01-19-2011, 08:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Floyd - you're definitely right. I'm pretty sure my next project is going to be some built-ins in my office...already planning!

AM - I agree completely. I dunno though - I used the string, and then decided it must be a trick string with a curve in it. I was so convinced that there was a curve in the channel. But the string and the laser level said the same thing, so I guess I'm gonna trust it. I guess worst case scenario is that I may just have to realign some clips when I'm putting the drywall up. Speaking of drywall, can I borrow your lift?!?

Besides my question about those Halo lights above, I'm looking for a way to do the same thing Ruben did with lights behind the screen. Does anyone have a suggestion for lights to use to accomplish this? I want the lights to be one of the zones in the grafik eye so they come up while people enter the theater and then fade off. Can that be accomplished with the GE? Or do I need something more sophistocated like Control4?


By the way - that image belongs to Ruben and I just "borrowed" from his thread...

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post #384 of 1772 Old 01-19-2011, 10:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok I get antsy very easily so I'm pulling the trigger on those Halo 1499RT's...

Still looking for input on the behind-the-screen lighting...anyone?

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post #385 of 1772 Old 01-19-2011, 11:50 AM
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Glad to hear the channel wasn't as curved as it appeared.

The color of the blue leads me to believe they are LEDs, perhaps Blue LED flood lights?



Here is a link:
http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/syl...6_led_b_fl.asp
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post #386 of 1772 Old 01-19-2011, 12:03 PM
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Sure, you can come by for the lift anytime. Just let me know.

Current HT: HTPC-->Epson 5010 projector-->135" screen, BFM TLAHs x7 & THT
Build log: DIY rotary sub for contemporary HT in 100 year old house?
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post #387 of 1772 Old 01-19-2011, 12:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for that link cklinejr - those look cool. I'm mostly trying to figure out how to ask my electrician to mount fixtures for them so that they're dimmable as a zone on the GE. I'm trying to avoid more holes in the ceiling if possible for soundproofing...

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post #388 of 1772 Old 01-19-2011, 12:57 PM
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kjlewie had lighting behind his screen for speaker accents as well. Here's his post regarding the connection to the GE:

Quote:
Originally Posted by kjlewie View Post

...for the screen wall lighting, I used basic track lighting mounted on the false wall and connected as a zone on the QS. I used an outlet just in case I decide to add more track lighting above aimed at the wall treatments.

So you can either wire direct to some kind of spot light fixture, or wire to a standard outlet for a little more flexibility.

Stolen picture from his thread:
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post #389 of 1772 Old 01-19-2011, 01:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks HDVids! I actually found that thread in a round-about way and was looking at it when you posted! I found it through the Hall of Fame thread that has just been started.

Question: I know code varies state to state and town to town, but does anyone know if it's generally ok to wire the GE to control an oulet like kjlewie did above?

Thanks!


I also have to look into the difference between the GE QS and the normal GRX-3104 I was planning on. I need to make this purchase in the next few days and don't know enough about the unit yet...

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post #390 of 1772 Old 01-19-2011, 03:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AirBenji View Post

Thanks HDVids! I actually found that thread in a round-about way and was looking at it when you posted! I found it through the Hall of Fame thread that has just been started.

Question: I know code varies state to state and town to town, but does anyone know if it's generally ok to wire the GE to control an oulet like kjlewie did above?

Thanks!


I also have to look into the difference between the GE QS and the normal GRX-3104 I was planning on. I need to make this purchase in the next few days and don't know enough about the unit yet...

best bet is to call an electrical inspector.

when it comes to code call the local authorities. i have seen people run into problems by taking code ideas from a different state or province and applying them to their home state/province. and usually it's not major stuff but minor nitpicky things like a home automation being wired to wall outlets versus fixtures.

I don't see a problem but i am also not an electrical inspector.

Matt

"The main reason Santa is so jolly is because he knows where all the bad girls live." - George Carlin
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