The Esquire Theater!! Construction Begins... - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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post #541 of 1772 Old 03-05-2011, 08:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi Guys...building my backer boxes today...one quick question...

What's the right cement board to line them with? I don't know anything about cement board...it looks like the options are:

Hardiebacker board
WonderBoard
PermaBase backer board

Thanks!

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post #542 of 1772 Old 03-06-2011, 07:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok so the backer boxes didn't get built yesterday...this is just a bump for the question above - I'm borrowing a friend's truck in an hour or so to get materials...anyone know what backer board to use?

Thanks!

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post #543 of 1772 Old 03-06-2011, 07:58 AM
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What about just double 3/4" mdf or ply? Those concrete boards are messy to work with!

Current HT: HTPC-->Epson 5010 projector-->135" screen, BFM TLAHs x7 & THT
Build log: DIY rotary sub for contemporary HT in 100 year old house?
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post #544 of 1772 Old 03-06-2011, 08:03 AM - Thread Starter
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I dunno? Will that work? Ted's manual says 7/16' OSB lined with 1/4" or 3/8" cement board. Fire blocking I think? Will MDF do the same?

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post #545 of 1772 Old 03-06-2011, 08:43 AM
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no mdf is not fire rated. if the cement board is suggested, then probably for fire rating. though the lights you get should be spec'd for use in enclosed spaces which would really negate that issue.

AM is right about cement board being messy to work with. i remember having to put it up in my furnace/utility room. it's pretty heavy and the dust sucked hard!


but ted puts lots of thoughts into this stuff. so i don't know what to really suggest..... lol sorry man..


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post #546 of 1772 Old 03-06-2011, 09:08 AM - Thread Starter
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OK thanks for the responses guys - I'm going to try to get permabase, but the interwebs say that they don't carry 1/4" at my local Lowe's or HD. 2nd choice is wonderboard I guess.

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post #547 of 1772 Old 03-06-2011, 09:57 AM
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I was thinking elect box backer box, not recessed can lights. Wonderboard would be my choice.

Current HT: HTPC-->Epson 5010 projector-->135" screen, BFM TLAHs x7 & THT
Build log: DIY rotary sub for contemporary HT in 100 year old house?
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post #548 of 1772 Old 03-06-2011, 10:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok back from HD with materials. 7/16" OSB and I ended up with 1/4" HardieBacker Board. It says right on the product that it's "the ultimate cement board" so how could I go wrong???? I'll double check with Ted tomorrow to be sure it's the right stuff.

Everything was great until my friend decided it floor it at a stop light (?!!?) and we left half of our materials in the road. Of course it's pouring outside too. Luckily we were able to grab everything up quickly and throw it back in the truck. No harm done.

I may not get to this project until next weekend, so I'm a little nervous about the OSB warping...is this the right way to store it or should I lay it down with the cement board on top of it?




I need to find a table saw. Of course it's the one thing my local HD does NOT rent. I was gonna buy one but I'm already a bit over budget and I'm not overly excited about another $400 right now...grrr. Anyone have suggestions on which one to buy if I'm gonna get one? I don't know anything about them, but I have liked the DeWalt tools I have bought so far (they're the only "real" tools I have ever owned).

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post #549 of 1772 Old 03-06-2011, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AirBenji View Post

Hi Chainsaw - Yes, I used to buy some stuff at Tweeters when it was here and I thought it was a cool place (mostly expensive Monster Cable that I now regret ).

Hippo's can be expensive - I have a friend who had a whole house system put in by them and we were shocked at the pricing. However, they definitely do good work; clean and professional installs. Hippo's also caters to an entirely different clientele than a store like Tweeters, selling brands such as McIntosh, B&W, etc.

As far as purchasing my items online, I haven't really bought much actual theater gear (yet ). I bought my side surrounds at Hippo's several years ago (PSB Image Series) and since then have been a repeat PSB customer - I really like their speakers (although now DE has me wanting all Triads ).

I will most likely buy my PJ and screen from AVS as their pricing and service is really the best (plus I like to support the forum if I can), but I will at least consider Hippo's, as they sell Runco, Sony, Stewart, etc.

That's the long answer to your short question. Thanks for the reply! Are you in Albany as well?

I live about 40 minutes west of Albany...Sacandaga Lake area. I got my Martin Logan Odyssey's from Tweeters and my PSB's from Hippo's. We don't have anything in the immediate area to buy. I got my lexicon stuff from Clark audio. Does that new place carry anything good (Ultimate Electronics???)
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post #550 of 1772 Old 03-06-2011, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AirBenji View Post

I may not get to this project until next weekend, so I'm a little nervous about the OSB warping...is this the right way to store it or should I lay it down with the cement board on top of it?

If you have 3 2x4's floating around I would lay the OSB down. I'm not sure if it will cup a little in a week. I can tell you it will warp for sure if it's longer than a month. If you're looking at table saws give the Ridgid a good look...I'm a Makita guy but my girlfriend bought me the granite top ridgid table saw last Christmas and I love it. I'm not a full time table saw guy but definitely use mine enough to have a pretty good idea if it's good or not. JMO
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post #551 of 1772 Old 03-06-2011, 02:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Ultimate Electronics is currently having a going out of business sale. They're supposed to be closing in a week. I went over there yesterday to check out the TV's as I'm looking for one for a room upstairs, but there are NO bargains right now. I compared prices to Crutchfield and Crutchfield's everyday prices are cheaper. That's probably why Ultimate still appears to have 99% of its stock.

I think the only decent deals I saw were on Monster Products - speaker cable, power conditioners etc. They were pretty much at 50% of MSRP, but considering that most retailers sell below MSRP on those products anyway, I'm not sure it's worth it to save a few bucks on a power conditioner when the sale is final and the retailer will be gone in a week.

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post #552 of 1772 Old 03-06-2011, 02:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Oh and by the way, I just called another HD near me and they do rent table saws...for $70/day! That means I'm either finding a friend with one or buying!

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post #553 of 1772 Old 03-06-2011, 02:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AirBenji View Post

Ultimate Electronics is currently having a going out of business sale. They're supposed to be closing in a week.

That building must be cursed for audio/video dealers.....maybe Tweeters will come back...
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post #554 of 1772 Old 03-06-2011, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AirBenji View Post

Oh and by the way, I just called another HD near me and they do rent table saws...for $70/day! That means I'm either finding a friend with one or buying!

load up the wood and you can cut it in my garage...it might be a little cold seeings how I just gave away my woodstove
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post #555 of 1772 Old 03-06-2011, 06:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chainsaw12117 View Post

That building must be cursed for audio/video dealers.....maybe Tweeters will come back...

Haha I agree! And thanks a ton for that offer to make some cuts at your place chainsaw, but I think a friend at work has me covered. If not though, I'll be in touch - thanks again!

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post #556 of 1772 Old 03-08-2011, 10:55 AM - Thread Starter
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FINALLY - this morning I had a FOURTH HVAC contractor over for an estimate. He was great: he didn't try to sell me this or that or redesign my plan, tell me Dennis didn't know his stuff, or anything else like that. He actually did something shocking: he listened to what I am trying to accomplish. There's one (sort of big) caveat: he hasn't come back with a price yet...but as long as it's reasonable, I'm in.

I also realized that I probably could do this labor myself (with a lot of swearing, several trips to HD, some work and rework, and probably a little blood on some sheet metal). However, I really wanted the expertise of someone who knows about these systems to check over my plan, so it is worth it to me to pony up the $ for this.

Even better, I am now really re-energized for the build and will be getting back to full speed building. The HVAC was depressing me and I have a few other small loose ends hanging recently. My original goal was drywall delivery on 3/15. I'll probably be two or three weeks behind there, but I'm ok with that.

Things to do before drywall:
1 - Run surround speaker and PJ cables and determine how I'm going to terminate everything in the equip room (Tonight)
2 - Build backer boxes (this weekend)
3 - Have HVAC work done (next week)
4 - Add crown lighting and screen wash lighting zones.
5 - Determine how I'm going to control everything (IR?) and install
6 - Insulate

Ok maybe that's more than I thought...but I'm motivated again!

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post #557 of 1772 Old 03-08-2011, 11:13 AM
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It really is frustrating how many contractors don't listen to their customers (or potential customers), but it is great to hear that you found someone who is on the same page as you. A friend of mine who happens to be a contractor was over yesterday to help me finish my framing. I was worried that he was going to tell me I was crazy when I told him about isolation clips, double wall construction, etc. He simply said "I'm here to help you out. It sounds like you know exactly what you want, so that's what we will do".

You are making great progress. I am anxiously watching your progress since I am following right behind you with many of the same tasks.

Nick
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post #558 of 1772 Old 03-09-2011, 10:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the comments Nick...your framing looks great - much better than mine.

I have been having a ton of trouble with warping studs. I don't know why that is - I haven't been letting them sit around or anything - I bring them home and put them up, but I go back a few days later and it is uuugggly. By the time I am ready to button up the walls I will have cut out and replaced enough studs to frame the place twice!

Progress - last night I ran the side surround cables and secured a table saw for my backer box building this weekend. I also ran some cat6 to zone 2...gotta get the correct size drill bit to get a HDMI and component cable in there next. Tonight I am going to fix a couple of studs that are warped and run cable to the rear surrounds (gotta get yet MORE smurf tube from HD first).

Question - what conduit is everyone using for HDMI cables? 3/4" smurf is too small and I need to run HDMI, component, and Cat6 to the PJ...but I can't use anything huge because I'll be running across joists (between joist and drywall in the gap created by clips + channel). I believe the gap is 1 5/8". Maybe I can find 1" smurf somewhere, but I don't think my local HD has it...

Thanks!

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post #559 of 1772 Old 03-09-2011, 11:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AirBenji View Post

Question - what conduit is everyone using for HDMI cables? 3/4" smurf is too small and I need to run HDMI, component, and Cat6 to the PJ...but I can't use anything huge because I'll be running across joists (between joist and drywall in the gap created by clips + channel). I believe the gap is 1 5/8". Maybe I can find 1" smurf somewhere, but I don't think my local HD has it...

Thanks!

It's usually recommended to use 2" diameter minimum from PJ to equipment location. The smurf tube isn't the greatest thing to use for that particular run since some of your cables have heads on them (HDMI for example) which can get caught in the ENT ridges, so look at PVC in this instance. You might be able to get away with using 1 1/2" depending on how many turns you need to make, but I would go as large as you possibly can.
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post #560 of 1772 Old 03-09-2011, 11:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Yeah that's kinda what I was thinking - thanks Vids.

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post #561 of 1772 Old 03-09-2011, 11:36 AM
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In my theater 1.0, I ran 2" conduit to the PJ but also ran an HDMI and Component cable (for my HD DVR box) outside of the conduit. This left lots of room for future expansion. I'll do the same with my current theater. My component cables are DIY from Canare cable and 3 cables take up quite a bit of space.
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post #562 of 1772 Old 03-09-2011, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AirBenji View Post

I need to find a table saw. Of course it's the one thing my local HD does NOT rent. I was gonna buy one but I'm already a bit over budget and I'm not overly excited about another $400 right now...grrr. Anyone have suggestions on which one to buy if I'm gonna get one? I don't know anything about them, but I have liked the DeWalt tools I have bought so far (they're the only "real" tools I have ever owned).

There was a table saw thread here a few months ago that's worth looking up. One of the take aways is that you can do 90% of what you could do with a table saw with a nice circular saw and a saw guide (diy or commercial), and it's a LOT safer for cutting down big stock. If your already there, I'd skip the portable saws altogether. Check craigslist for used contractor/hybrid/cabinet saws. When you're done with your projects you can sell it for what you paid for it. I whined in the tablesaw thread that I couldn't find anything on craigslist, then a few weeks later scored a big dewalt dw746 hybrid saw with a 52" extension table and other upgrades for $500. Look for other big table saw brands like Grizzly, Jet, Delta, etc on craigslist. If you want to buy new, I wouldn't go any less than the big Ridgid hybrid saw at home depot or the Porter Cable at lowes.
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post #563 of 1772 Old 03-10-2011, 07:48 AM - Thread Starter
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I got the proposal today from the last HVAC quote, and I'm very happy with it. He included one option that I need to make a decision on. I'm not getting the theater put on a second zone right now, but I'm trying to decide if I should have motorized dampers and a thermostat installed for the theater. They're going to do 2 supplies and one big return in the HT, plus a supply and return in the equip. room.

Here's the proposal:
1. To install 3) 6” flex duct from the supply trunk to the new theatre room in the basement.
2. To install 3) 10” x 6” 90 boots with diffusers and 3) 6” top take off’s w/ manual dampers.
3. To use customer existing 8” flex duct and connect to the return trunk.
4. To install a 10”x 4” return grill in the equipment room and a 10” x 6” grill the theatre room.
5. To balance air flow.

Then to add motorized dampers, the price is ~$500...NOTE*** With the room thermostat set on 70 degrees on the first floor, the temperature in the winter will be cooler in the theatre room. In the summer with the air conditioning thermostat set at 73 degrees on the first floor, the temperature in the basement could be cooler in the theatre room.

To help the summer time problem with respect to cold in the theatre room, we can install 3 motorized dampers on the 6” supply runs and install a room thermostat in the theatre. If the temperature becomes too cold in the theatre the room thermostat would close the 3 dampers allowing no more air to the theatre.

I guess I'm inclined to get the dampers...$500 versus being uncomfortable in a hot/cold room seems like an easy decision.

Would love to hear some opinions on this - thanks!

The Esquire Theater Construction Thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1289590
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post #564 of 1772 Old 03-10-2011, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AirBenji View Post

I got the proposal today from the last HVAC quote, and I'm very happy with it. He included one option that I need to make a decision on. I'm not getting the theater put on a second zone right now, but I'm trying to decide if I should have motorized dampers and a thermostat installed for the theater. They're going to do 2 supplies and one big return in the HT, plus a supply and return in the equip. room.

Here's the proposal:
1. To install 3) 6 flex duct from the supply trunk to the new theatre room in the basement.
2. To install 3) 10 x 6 90 boots with diffusers and 3) 6 top take off's w/ manual dampers.
3. To use customer existing 8 flex duct and connect to the return trunk.
4. To install a 10x 4 return grill in the equipment room and a 10 x 6 grill the theatre room.
5. To balance air flow.

Then to add motorized dampers, the price is ~$500...NOTE*** With the room thermostat set on 70 degrees on the first floor, the temperature in the winter will be cooler in the theatre room. In the summer with the air conditioning thermostat set at 73 degrees on the first floor, the temperature in the basement could be cooler in the theatre room.

To help the summer time problem with respect to cold in the theatre room, we can install 3 motorized dampers on the 6 supply runs and install a room thermostat in the theatre. If the temperature becomes too cold in the theatre the room thermostat would close the 3 dampers allowing no more air to the theatre.

I guess I'm inclined to get the dampers...$500 versus being uncomfortable in a hot/cold room seems like an easy decision.

Would love to hear some opinions on this - thanks!


Out of curiosity, how much did they want for the work without the motorized damper? I"m starting to wonder more and more if I should go this route. I'm adding ducts and returns, but it won't be on a separate zone.
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post #565 of 1772 Old 03-10-2011, 09:15 AM
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...someone from the Albany area delving into the DIY theater. I'm still in the VERY early planning phase of my basement remodel, so I'll live vicariously through you for the time being.

Best of luck to ya! If you ever need a hand, a truck to lug something, etc...drop me a line.
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post #566 of 1772 Old 03-10-2011, 09:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi Nick - I got a bunch of different estimates for the ductwork. This is the only reasonable one. I got in touch with him through a mutual friend who owns some restaurants and just bought another, so it's possible that there's a little discount here in hopes to get more work from my friend, although I think that's unlikely. Anyway, for 3 supplies and 2 returns, the price was ~$700. I have definitely done my research and spent a lot of time getting quotes, so I'm confident that this is a good price.

The first estimate was one of the bigger corporate places: their price was $250 per duct, and I was planning 3 supplies and 3 returns, which would come out to $1,500.

The next guy couldn't get his head around the soundproofing concept and also said it would never get hot down there, so A/C was unnecesary (). I asked him for a ductwork quote, but he didn't want to do that, so he gave me a quote for a hot water baseboard boiler for $4,350. I laughed at him.

The third estimate was another corporate place, and they wanted to put in an entirely separate heat pump system with an exchanger in the HT and another one in the equip. room. Price: $6,490.

I'm happy with this most recent proposal. It's a small local business (which I prefer to support if possible), the owner came for the estimate and was very curteous, and he sat down and looked at my plans and took time to listen to my requests/thoughts.



Freehb - Do you have any idea what you may have just gotten yourself into????
I really appreciate the offer and will most likely take you up on that at some point! I have been very creative with getting framing lumber into an Acura, but I need to get a few sheets of plywood home in a few weeks, and I think that will be a bit more difficult! Where are you located? I am in Loudonville near Siena college.


.

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post #567 of 1772 Old 03-10-2011, 02:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Theater HVAC will be done 1 week from today! Now I just need to figure out if it's worth it to pay for slotted bar diffusers.

They are about $120 each, and I don't know how much benefit they would provide. I think my plan will be to add them in the future if necessary. (Unless someone thinks I need them now?? And don't play any tricks on me! I know you guys like watching other people buy lots of shiny new stuff! )


I have some friends coming over to watch Inception tonight in the temporary theater...I have heard it is a good one!

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post #568 of 1772 Old 03-10-2011, 03:55 PM
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get high before you watch inception.

also glad to hear you got a plan that is being executed on ur hvac stuff! that's always a tough thing to get sorted. It's one of the few things that I myself would ever subcontract out. mainly because it's finicky and i dont want to cut myself to $H!t...

i look forward to seeing the progress evolve! im going to have to plan a trip to NY and hang out in yours and AM's theaters when they are done!!! hahahaha :P

Matt

"The main reason Santa is so jolly is because he knows where all the bad girls live." - George Carlin
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post #569 of 1772 Old 03-12-2011, 06:29 PM
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AirBenji,
I'm over between Troy and Brunswick, so maybe 10 minute drive. It's not a problem at all to lend a hand or truck at all.
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post #570 of 1772 Old 03-15-2011, 06:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Well I didn't get as much done this weekend as I hoped because I ended up working a lot, but I did at least get started on my backer boxes. Here are some pics:

1 - Lay out materials.
2 - Explain to GAF that no, this is not going to be a jewelry box.



3 - Assemble box with drywall screws. Pre-drilling is definitely necessary with the 7/16" OSB.
4 - Take lunch break.
5 - Box has disappeared. Search house and find in GAF's closet, full of jewelry. Remove jewelry and reconfirm that this is not a jewelry box.
6 - Somehow get suckered into building a jewelry box for GAF. Add disclaimer: "as soon as this project is done" (hahahaha she has NO idea how long that's gonna be)





Repeat. A lot.




I cut and dry fit some of the cement board too. I hope to finish that up tonight so that I can finally break out some GG and SilenSeal tomorrow for the first time.

You can also see in the corner of that pic that I got a big roll of 10 gauge speaker cable from Blue Jeans yesterday to run for the subs. I need to get my hands on another Danley somewhere, but that's a bit lower on my priority list for now. HVAC guys will be in on Thursday too!

I have to go out of town for some of the weekend, but I'm hoping that by the end of the weekend I will have all of the HVAC, backer boxes, and speaker cable runs completed. That leaves just a bit more electrical, insulation, and figuring out how I'm going to control everything before drywall!

The Esquire Theater Construction Thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1289590
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