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post #31 of 1772 Old 11-15-2010, 06:37 AM
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I used to live in Albany for many years.

For the insulation, whatever you decide, you want to make sure that the new inner wall framing doesn't contact any rigid foam. This will tend to couple the walls. This is only an issue if you are soundproofing, and building decoupled inner walls.

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post #32 of 1772 Old 11-15-2010, 06:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Ted - I can't imagine what could have possibly led you away from the booming metropolis that is Albany, NY?! Ok - I have decided to attempt soundproofing (really sound-minimizing I think), so I'll be sure to keep the framing from touching the foam.

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post #33 of 1772 Old 11-15-2010, 07:13 AM
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In the stud wall, you'd have R13 fiberglass, so you'd have to think about how much more insulation you'll want / need beyond that.

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post #34 of 1772 Old 11-16-2010, 06:40 AM - Thread Starter
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So I officially "broke ground" last night. Day 1 of my build and I am about two days behind haha. I took down a lot of that silver-faced insulation, pulled off the furring strips, scraped the concrete with a wire brush, and filled any rebar indentations/nail holes with Drylok FastPlug. A few thoughts on this process:

- The nails for the furring strips were really in the concrete. Much harder to pry out than I thought they would be. I suppose I should have expected that, considering you use a .22 to get them in there.
- Going over poured concrete with a wire brush is about as messy as sanding drywall joint compound. Not fun. I did one of the two exterior walls last night and think I will probably only go over the areas that really need it on the next wall tonight.
- I admittedly went waaay overboard with the FastPlug, but I do NOT want a water problem. I have a pic of my madness at home that I will post later this evening.
- Drylok FastPlug should be renamed Drylok ReallyFastPlug...it sets up quickly!

Tonight will be more of the same, and hopefully the first coat of Drylok if I can work fast enough.

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post #35 of 1772 Old 11-16-2010, 06:46 AM
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Seems like yesterday I was doing Drylock and FastPlug myself...

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post #36 of 1772 Old 11-16-2010, 07:12 AM
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Chris, your walls look really good. I think the only problem you may have....and I hesitate to even mention it.....is that your french trenches may fill with dirt. I don't know if you hear your sump pump running when it rains. You may not have a lot of water issues. The problem is that once the walls are up, you won't have any way to clean out those channels if they get filled with dirt. That might not happen for MANY years or ever! It could very well be 30 years.

The nicer french trench systems have a pipe or such that you can flush out with water from an access port or a couple of them. It would be hard to clear your trenches out without having access behind the walls.

Ok, I said it.

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post #37 of 1772 Old 11-16-2010, 07:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Hmmm - first, I'm pretty sure you know my name is Ben hahaha! Second, yuck, don't make me think about stuff like that! I should probably go home and look for something like a flush-out pipe. I have never heard of that before, so I probably wouldn't even recognize one if it was there. Also, I have never heard my sump pump turn on other than when the home inspector tested it when I was purchasing the house.

I'm only covering up about 15% of the exterior basement wall/trench space in the basement. I don't want to jinx anything, so I'm not going to comment on relative dryness in my basement, but I might let the flush pipe go or install one in another area of the trench at some later point.

I'm assuming the trench would fill with dirt from the bottom, right? (If it's filling from the top, then I have an extremely dirty house!) I'm not sure exactly what it is, but there is some type of stop about 3-4 inches down into the trench. A nail fell down in there last night and I can still see it - but I'm not sure what's in there (looks like some kind of foam)

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post #38 of 1772 Old 11-16-2010, 07:36 AM
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Oh man, I know a couple of guys called Chris... Sorry about that BEN. I'm so bad with names, it's not even funny.

That is why I hesitated to mention it. Your basement seems VERY dry. I wouldn't worry about it if you never hear your sump pump on. I have a friend that had water problems because that open trench filled up with sand/dirt. He had to take his drywall down, but afterward the problem was fixed. His house is probably at least 40 years old though.

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post #39 of 1772 Old 11-16-2010, 07:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Haha no problem Dave! I mean Andreas!

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post #40 of 1772 Old 11-16-2010, 09:07 AM
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I've been called worse!

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post #41 of 1772 Old 11-17-2010, 05:32 AM
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Ben,

Your build looks fun, i'll be following this thread, i'm also starting a build int he near future (just planning stages now) but i noticed the crack(s) in your foundation look very similar to mine (ridiculously straight line) doesn't look natural, i actually discovered from a small chip, that this seems to be a seam from some rigid foam insulation that may have been laid about 3/4 inch below the top layer of concrete, the best picture i have is here.

http://zendesktops.com/images/baseme...s/bigcrack.jpg

and you can find just a bit more information in my thread here

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1289310

long story short, i haven't done anything yet, cracks been there about a year and no water, if you did end up filling them (which it sounds like you did) i'd love to see some pictures.

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post #42 of 1772 Old 11-17-2010, 05:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AirBenji View Post

I'm assuming the trench would fill with dirt from the bottom, right? (If it's filling from the top, then I have an extremely dirty house!) I'm not sure exactly what it is, but there is some type of stop about 3-4 inches down into the trench. A nail fell down in there last night and I can still see it - but I'm not sure what's in there (looks like some kind of foam)

Just cut a 2" wide strip of 1" thick rigid foam and insert 1/2" down to the trench and the seal it with a bead of expensive foam (where the strip meets the foundation wall not the floor) and you should be fine. This is what the builder did in my basement.
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post #43 of 1772 Old 11-17-2010, 06:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks Jon! I have an eye on your thread too - looks like you have a space with some great potential! I really like my new house a lot, but if I had been the original client, one of the few things I would have changed is that I would have had a deeper basement poured (like most others say here). The extra 6" that you have (mine is about 7'6" slab to joist) makes a huge difference. Plus, it prevents me from getting permits for my project because local code requires 7'6" height from finished flooring to bottom of drywall. Grrrr. Some day when I have a house built from scratch, I am getting a 20' deep basement haha.

And yes, from the articles I have read and some peering around in my basement, I think there is likely some XPS underneath the slab. However, based on your picture, the XPS in my house must be further down underneath - I can see down into the crack in my slab further than that using a flashlight.

I was going to fill those cracks Monday night, but I am still patching some rebar indentations and nail holes in the forms (aka going way overboard), and I know myself- I would be stepping in the crack filler and tracking it all over the carpet in the finished area of the basement and probably upstairs too haha. So that's going to be the last part of the patching process. I am hoping to get to it tonight, and I'll be sure to snap a few pics of the process.

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post #44 of 1772 Old 11-17-2010, 06:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Hey Walkinator - I looked a little further into that trench situation last night with a similar idea, but it looks like the builders must have done the same thing in my house - there's some XPS wedged in there about 2-3" down. Not sure if there's foam, but there's definitely no space between the foam and concrete on either side for dirt/stuff to get in. But thank you for the advice - it looks like that is the way to go.

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post #45 of 1772 Old 11-17-2010, 06:50 AM - Thread Starter
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OK so I know everyone around here loves pics and I haven't uploaded any in a few days. I don't have any pics of my annoying concrete patching today, and I'm not sure you'd want to see them if I did, but here is a pic that I do like. It's from this summer - sorry for the crappy BlackBerry pic. And yes, that's a giant Danley box. Kinda hard to get perspective in the pic, but that's a pretty big truck, and that box in the back is close to 6ft tall.

[IMG][/IMG]

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post #46 of 1772 Old 11-17-2010, 12:51 PM - Thread Starter
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OK Andreas and I are now fighting! He jinxed me! It was pourrrrring when I got up to go to the gym this morning (5am - ouch!). However, the rain stopped before 7am. Then I had to run home for a minute around 1pm, and I happened to go down into the basement for a second...and don't you know, the sump pump clicks on?!?! It was only on for about 3-5 seconds, but still...jeez! Thanks a lot Andreas! Haha, I'm sure it's no biggie - it was only on for a few seconds, and it was seriously pouring like all heck this morning!

In other news, I stuck something down into the trench around the perimeter in my basement and it appears that it's not rigid foam sandwiched between the slab and forms - it's actually cement. I tapped on what I thought was the foam with a pry bar and got a solid thunk sound - definitely cement. So it appears that there's just a channel there for the water to run down to the sump pump in case something should happen and I have water running down the inside of one of the forms. At least that's the only use I can think of...maybe someone else has thoughts or experience on this topic. Sounds logical to me I guess...

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post #47 of 1772 Old 11-17-2010, 01:08 PM
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It could be that the channels are for interior draining. I thought most of the time they were placed so that if the water table/level rose it would enter the channel from around the foundation footer and drained to the sump pump well. This way it doesn't end up coming up through the cracks in your floor or creating hydrostatic pressure on the walls.

I have a good informational pamphlet that Adirondack Basement Systems gave to me. If I can find it, I'll give it to you if you want it.

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post #48 of 1772 Old 11-18-2010, 06:00 AM - Thread Starter
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OK so last night I was about to fill the X-shaped crack in the slab, and as I was cleaning it with a wire brush, I got a little nervous and decided I'd better consult everyone here one more time before proceeding.

Running all the way along the crack is a piece of plastic, which you can see in the photo below. I just want to be sure I'm not going to hurt anything or seal up some intentional breathing space or anything like that. Anyone have thoughts on this? Thanks!!

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

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post #49 of 1772 Old 11-18-2010, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AirBenji View Post

OK so last night I was about to fill the X-shaped crack in the slab, and as I was cleaning it with a wire brush, I got a little nervous and decided I'd better consult everyone here one more time before proceeding.

Running all the way along the crack is a piece of plastic, which you can see in the photo below. I just want to be sure I'm not going to hurt anything or seal up some intentional breathing space or anything like that. Anyone have thoughts on this? Thanks!!

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

Wow, that's very strange (to me at least). When I first looked at your slab pics I didn't see any traditional tension relief cuts they do the day after pouring it, which made me curious why they didn't. That plastic piece is almost like they wanted it to crack along those lines. Maybe that's an alternative to cutting relief cuts with a saw???
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post #50 of 1772 Old 11-18-2010, 10:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks Bill!

Yes, I just spoke with HD and they have enough rigid foam in stock, so picking that up and applying the first coat of Drylok are my tasks for this evening. (However, tonight is office happy hour for my birthday, so my motivation level may be compromised!) And yes, I do have a sump pump and backup pump system. I don't know much about them other than that when I purchased my house in April, the inspector said they were both ok. He also performed a radon test and I'm in the clear there as well.

The jury is still out on the crack in the slab...looks like fotto has some good input, so I'll research relief cuts before going ahead with that. (This is great as learning is one of the real fun parts (for me) and a motivating factor in my build - I am on step 1 out of about 8,000 and I am already learning so much!)

Syracuse, eh? I went to Colgate University and I also have family in the Utica area, so I know Syracuse and Central NY pretty well...I had a long walk to a meeting this morning and it's starting to get chilly here in Albany, but I bet you're already 5-10 degrees colder than us out there...winter is coming!

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post #51 of 1772 Old 11-18-2010, 01:00 PM
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Winter sure is coming but you know what that means....more time to work in the basement!! I barely touched it when the weather was nice. I visit Albany frequently as my wife's family lives there. And, you're right, it always seems colder here in Syracuse!

P.S. Happy Birthday!

- Bill
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post #52 of 1772 Old 11-18-2010, 07:44 PM
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That plastic in the crack looks like a backing rod (used to fill larger cracks)? Can't really tell from the picture, were the cracks there already when you got the house?
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post #53 of 1772 Old 11-19-2010, 06:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Yes - winter certainly means more time for the basement...or shoveling! And big indoor projects are definitely best left for this time of year.

Hey Walkinator - thanks for the comment...yes, the cracks were there when I got the house (in April - and the house was built in 2001). I think it's unlikely that the plastic underneath there is something that was used to fill a larger crack for a few reasons: 1 - there is no indication (discoloration etc) that the slab has been patched, 2 - the plastic in there appears to run all the way from one side of the basement to the other, and 3 - the plastic appears too big to be pushed down into that crack. However, I'm certainly no expert on this one and I could very well be wrong.

My house was built by a pretty large contractor in this area, so I think I'm going to call over there and try to settle this one once and for all...will keep you guys posted, and thanks for the input!

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post #54 of 1772 Old 11-19-2010, 06:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Drylok is like painting with peanut butter. My shoulders and arms are exhausted. A roller weighs about 20 lb. when full of Drylok.

I did about 160 sq. ft. of wall space last night and it took me a solid hour and a half. Getting Drylok down into all of those pinholes etc is not easy, and you use a TON of the stuff. I only have 2 walls to cover - I bought a 5 gal. bucket (for $100 ) and it's definitely not going to be enough for two coats on both walls.

I am quickly learning two building rules that are very true:

Take your monetary budget, double it, and then you'll be close.

Take your time budget, double it, and then you'll only be behind by a reasonable margin.

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Ben,

The more i look at your crack, the more it looks like mine!, the plastic looks exactly the same, and it looks more like a sheet than a backing rod (atleast from my angle) my house was built but a pretty larger contracter in 2006, and this crack showed up about a year later. its also a perfectly straight line.

i was going to fill this crack before starting on my basement, as per my msg to you earlier, but now that people are saying this is possibly a relief crack, then filling it would probably be a bad idea no? i'm pretty confused and anxiously awaiting what next step you take.

i've thought about calling a basement person in the area, but to have them come out and tell me that no work needs to be done, would be kind of counter-productive to their business, so i can't imagine anyone coming out, looking at it, and saying nothing needs to be done.. its defintiely in their past interest to tell me that work will need to be done, and i don't know anyone i can trust.
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Drylok is like painting with peanut butter. My shoulders and arms are exhausted. A roller weighs about 20 lb. when full of Drylok.
I just painted a wall on my project with drylok and you definately get a workout with it. I brushed on the first coat to make sure i got into all the pinholes and rollered the second. Not sure which was worse. The good news is we had 3 inches of rain about a week ago and no water leakage at all. Before it just had to look like rain and water would be all over the floor.
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post #57 of 1772 Old 11-19-2010, 07:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi Dan -

Yeah, I was going to use a brush for the first coat too. I went downstairs with the Drylok and 4" stiff-bristled brush, looked at the giant concrete forms, looked back at said brush, and thought...um, how about...no. Then I read on the Drylok can that you can use a roller for coat #1 as long as you use a fuzzy 3/4" nap. That sealed the deal for me. I'm going to go over a few spots with the brush where there are a lot of pinholes, but the roller appears to have worked pretty well.


Hey Jon - I hope to have an answer for you today on this crack situation. I'll see what the builder says, although they haven't been too helpful in the past when I have called. Otherwise, I have a friend at work whose husband is a very skilled contractor and I'll ask him (although I'm trying to avoid this because I'm probably going to have 6,000 questions for him as I progress though the build). I'll keep you updated!

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post #58 of 1772 Old 11-19-2010, 07:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malelan View Post
Ben,

The more i look at your crack, the more it looks like mine!, the plastic looks exactly the same, and it looks more like a sheet than a backing rod (atleast from my angle) my house was built but a pretty larger contracter in 2006, and this crack showed up about a year later. its also a perfectly straight line.

i was going to fill this crack before starting on my basement, as per my msg to you earlier, but now that people are saying this is possibly a relief crack, then filling it would probably be a bad idea no? i'm pretty confused and anxiously awaiting what next step you take.

i've thought about calling a basement person in the area, but to have them come out and tell me that no work needs to be done, would be kind of counter-productive to their business, so i can't imagine anyone coming out, looking at it, and saying nothing needs to be done.. its defintiely in their past interest to tell me that work will need to be done, and i don't know anyone i can trust.
If it is indeed a "relief crack" (or more appropriately called a contraction joint), I personally wouldn't have any qualms about filling it in. On large monolithic slabs such as a basement, it is common practice to cut these joints into the cement. As your slab drys it contracts and the joints allow for the concrete to crack along them in lieu of a crack developing somewhere and spreading willy nilly across your floor. This is different than an expansion joint, where elastic/resilient material is placed between two adjoining concrete sections (sidewalk to driveway, sidewalk to house/stoop, driveway to garage slab as examples).

I had cracks develop in my basement within a year of construction, with additional cracks developing between some of the intended contraction joints that were cut. Those additional cracks never "reclosed".
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post #59 of 1772 Old 11-19-2010, 08:11 AM - Thread Starter
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fotto - Thanks a lot for your comment...you are clearly much better versed on this topic than I am. I tend to agree with you that it is a contraction joint - as far as I can tell, the cracks look like they were intended, possibly during the drying process.

I have a call in to the builders of my house and will let you guys know their response. For now, the crack isn't slowing me down, so it's not essential to resolve it immediately. Hopefully I'll be framing at this time next week, and I'll have to make a decision at that point. I'm not planning on DriCore or anything like that, so if there are cracks now, I'd like to resolve them. (I have berber carpet in another finished area of the basement, and the floor is plenty warm, so other than protecting from moisture, I don't feel like I'd benefit from DriCore that much.)

The Esquire Theater Construction Thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1289590
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post #60 of 1772 Old 11-20-2010, 10:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok so Drylok is about 90% done. I picked up a bunch of rigid foam today from HD. But I was reading the tube of adhesive and have a question:

The adhesive I am planning to use is PL-300, which is specifically for affixing rigid foam to substrate/concrete.

The tube of PL-300 says it is not recommended for sealed concrete. However, the website doesn't say anything like that. Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Is there an alternative adhesive?
http://www.loctiteproducts.com/p/pl_...d-Adhesive.htm


I'm probably going to start a separate thread on this question because I'm concerned about using something that won't bond permanently/properly with the sealed concrete (and I have spent most of the last week Dryloking the heck out of my basement!). Thanks for any input you have!

[IMG][/IMG]

The Esquire Theater Construction Thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1289590
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