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post #721 of 1772 Old 05-03-2011, 08:45 AM - Thread Starter
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OK guys I need some opinions today. I'm going to order my light trims and am a bit on the fence as to what to get...would love to hear your thoughts:

First, for over the seats...There's no flat black color, so I need to decide if I should get these black chrome ones or get white and paint them black. Do you think black chrome will work against a flat black ceiling?


Next are the screen wash lights. I have narrowed it down to three options here. The cans are going to be about 20" out in front of the screen, so I thought I should get something that tilts toward the screen a bit. One concern I have is that my screen will be pretty close to the ceiling so I don't want something that's going to hang down too much and be distracting. None of these come in black, so I'm going to have to paint. Here they are:

1 - Regular Gimball Trim (30 degree tilt):




2 - Retractable Elbow Trim (60 degree tilt):




3 - Mirror Trim:





Thanks for any input you have!

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post #722 of 1772 Old 05-03-2011, 09:06 AM
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For the lights going over the seats, I would think flat black would be better, but someone who has a glossy trim could answer that better than me.

For the screen wash lights, I like number two best followed by number one. I don't really care for the third choice.

Nick


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post #723 of 1772 Old 05-03-2011, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AirBenji View Post

There's no flat black color, so I need to decide if I should get these black chrome ones or get white and paint them black. Do you think black chrome will work against a flat black ceiling?

I'd be happy with the black they come in, and leave it at that. Since these are going over your seats, I think the reflectivity of flat vs some other painted black surface is a moot point (they are above you, not in front of you).

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Originally Posted by AirBenji View Post

Next are the screen wash lights.

For my screen I used 3 gimbal trims just like #1, and they work perfectly. I tried to keep the top of my screen at least 7 inches below the ceiling, so if you're getting closer then that, you might want to go with the 60 degree tilt elbow trim (plus, since your lights are farther back, they'll need to tilt higher up). #3 is just fugly IMHO.


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post #724 of 1772 Old 05-03-2011, 09:33 AM
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painting them flat black should be fine imho. i like either 1 or 2, and agree that 3 looks nasty.

Matt

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post #725 of 1772 Old 05-03-2011, 11:54 AM
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Are those 4" cans? If so, I was able to get black trims (not quite flat, more like satin I guess) - normal and eyeball - from eBay. They were from Elco lighting:

http://www.elcolighting.com/products...ith-metal-ring

http://www.elcolighting.com/products...ips-and-socket


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post #726 of 1772 Old 05-03-2011, 12:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for all the input guys - are your email notifications working today? I didn't realize anyone had responded.

I think I agree that for the screen wash lights, #2 is the best option.

I have been thinking about the ones over the seats and I think I want flat black there too. I just want the ceiling to disappear as much as possible.

Brad - I wasn't aware that I could go with a different brand trim than the actual fixture. When I talked to Dennis, he suggested the Halo models because he knew they wouldn't rattle. I don't know about other brands, but if they have options that I wouldn't have to paint in a similar price range, I should probably consider it. Thanks for the heads up on that!

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post #727 of 1772 Old 05-03-2011, 12:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Oh and by the way...exciting news...hope to finish the insulation tonight...first sheet of drywall tomorrow!!

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post #728 of 1772 Old 05-03-2011, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AirBenji View Post

Brad - I wasn't aware that I could go with a different brand trim than the actual fixture. When I talked to Dennis, he suggested the Halo models because he knew they wouldn't rattle. I don't know about other brands, but if they have options that I wouldn't have to paint in a similar price range, I should probably consider it. Thanks for the heads up on that!

The Elco stuff is cheaper than Halo. I haven't experienced any rattles, but of course Dennis has experience with a ton more theaters, maybe he has had problems with brands other than Halo. The Elco trims I have fit my Halo cans fine.


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post #729 of 1772 Old 05-03-2011, 01:17 PM
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Dennis designed the theater for my friend. He recommend 14 4" inch Halogen lights made by Halo. These were very expensive. My friend bought elco halogen in black trim for less than half of the price. He go free shipping. I think the price of the fixture was around $35.
He has had the theater for 6 months now and there has been no issues with the rattling.

He bought them from here:

http://www.lightbulbsetc.com/


Can you share your lighting plan? Where did you place your lights?
I am planning to use 4" recessed lights and I am struggling with the placement and lighting zones I should create.


Thanks


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post #730 of 1772 Old 05-03-2011, 01:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AirBenji View Post

Oh and by the way...exciting news...hope to finish the insulation tonight...first sheet of drywall tomorrow!!

sweeeeeet!

thats awesome, good job on the quick progress.

Matt

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post #731 of 1772 Old 05-03-2011, 03:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the comments all - I will definitely look into the Elco stuff. I was a little frustrated buying the Halo 1499RT cans because they were much more expensive than some others I saw (and my electrician mentioned another brand he said was higher quality for less money), but this is an area where I decided it was important to listen to Dennis. It was worth an extra $150 or whatever it was to be rattle-free. The cans in my temporary theater rattle like hell and it drives me nuts! But in their defense, it's a drop ceiling, and I think my DTS-10 could probably knock the whole ceiling down if it wanted to.

hehateme - thanks for the link. I will definitely check that out. I'm uncomfortable posting the lighting plan as it's Dennis' work product, but I can certainly post a little sketch so you can get the general idea. I originally wanted a pretty simple lighting plan, so he gave me this:
Zone 1 - (main room lights) lights above first row and between front row and screen
Zone 2 - lights above rear seats
Zone 3 - Riser step lights

I then later decided I wanted a bit more drama than that, so I added:
Zone 4 - Screen wash lights
Zone 5 - Crown molding rope lights
Zone 6 - Lights behind AT screen (not sure if I'll use this yet, but it's wired)
An important note: I made up the last 3 zones pretty much without any input from Dennis, so it's entirely possible that they will end up to be a complete disaster...taking a chance on that one...we'll see...

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post #732 of 1772 Old 05-03-2011, 05:15 PM
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Sounds like a solid plan to me. Go forth and prosper

Floyd

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post #733 of 1772 Old 05-04-2011, 07:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok wellllll I have to eat my words a little bit this morning. No way that first sheet of drywall is going up tonight. I hadn't worked in the theater for a few days and I think I convinced myself that the insulation was a lot closer to done than it actually is. I could get away with putting 10 sheets up in the front of the theater, but the back needs some attention before I can drywall. A few things I need to do:

1 - Run PJ HDMI, ethernet, and component cable. I still need to drill some holes in the joists and have been too much of a wimp to do it so far. Still figuring out exactly how I want to run the conduit, and now I realize that there is an HVAC duct in the way too. Grrrrrrr...I have wasted a lot of time on this one, but I'm gonna bite the bullet and get it done tonight!

2 - Finish silly flex duct. First, I forgot that this needed to be done, so it's the project I tackled last night. I am about 2' short , so I have to go buy another 25'. Pics below.

3 - Finish insulating. Duh. Again here, I convinced myself I was a little further along. Errrr, I have my work cut out for me to finish this by Saturday morning so I can spend SATURDAY drywalling!

Updated drywall start date: Saturday!

Ok, so last night I worked on replacing the metal HVAC duct with flex...here are some pics...

First, yank out the metal duct...



Next, pull off the boot and reuse. Unfortunately I had to cut about 4" off the metal duct and keep attached to the boot because otherwise there wasn't enough to securely attach the flex to the boot. Working with that stuff is like juggling razor blades...WEAR GLOVES!



Then line the cavity with some R-13. I tried R-19 on one of the earlier flex runs and it made the flex hang too low from the joist cavity and it was really smushed up against the hat channel. (Yes, "smushed" is a technical term of art. )



Finally, install flex and realize that I'm about 2-3' short. Crap. Gotta go get some more flex today...and figure out how to join the ends of two flex ducts together...



You can also see in that pic that I have started with the orange tube. I did that once I realized I didn't have enough flex last night. I think I finally have that plan worked out and it shouldn't take me too long now to resolve that mess of equipment room wires. Gotta find some time tonight and tomorrow night to put in a few more hours so I can get busy with this drywall!

Oh...and I need to build backer boxes for all of those electrical outlets and the GE! Add one more thing to the list!

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post #734 of 1772 Old 05-04-2011, 07:27 AM
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Progress is progress, and you're still moving along at a good clip! Although, I faintly remember somewhere hearing mention that you would have your framing finished in 10 days or so in the beginning...

Quote:
Originally Posted by AirBenji View Post

Gotta go get some more flex today...and figure out how to join the ends of two flex ducts together...

That's an easy one, just look for a 'flex coupling' at the store in the HVAC section, looks like this:


Slide the ends of your flex over each side, and tape. VoilÃ*!


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post #735 of 1772 Old 05-04-2011, 07:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Aaaah awesome - Thanks vids! That's exactly what I need!

And yeah, you're right about my deadlines haha. Two major factors in that I think: #1 - noooo construction experience, making all of my time estimates ridiculous. :rollseyes: #2 - WORK. Wow things are getting crazy and it's going to keep getting more intense until late June. Oh, then add #3 - I'm overly excited and think it's going to be done tomorrow .

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post #736 of 1772 Old 05-04-2011, 07:55 AM
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Don't worry, no judgment here...my status has been set to 'Almost finished' for a good 4+ months now for a reason...and that was after 2 years of (sloooooow) construction!


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post #737 of 1772 Old 05-04-2011, 05:28 PM
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For some reason I thought you were to going to do the flex ducts in soffits after drywall. Were you just trying to save some headroom?


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post #738 of 1772 Old 05-04-2011, 05:45 PM
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Another question..is that the AT core flex from Ted? If so, how did you wrap it up like that?


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post #739 of 1772 Old 05-05-2011, 06:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Jon, yes - headroom is the biggest issue in my room. The finished ceiling will only be about 7'3", and that's assuming you're not on the 10" riser. Besides that, I really want four seats per row, and the room is very narrow for a row of four (the room is only about about 13'8" wide). That made soffits all but impossible.

And you're right - that's not Ted's flex duct in the pics above. That duct doesn't service the theater, so technically I probably didn't even have to replace the metal with flex, but for ~$25, I thought it might help a little, so I went ahead with it. I actually haven't used any of Ted's stuff yet. The runs of flex in the theater ceiling are very short and I will have access to them after the theater is done, so if I decide I need to build a dead vent in the future, that's doable.

Question of the Day: What's the best way to cut holes in the drywall ceiling for the recessed lighting? Should I get a hole saw bit? A rotozip? Both? I would just get a rotozip, but I only have about 4-5 outlet holes to cut in the wall, so I'm not sure it's worth it. Thanks!

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post #740 of 1772 Old 05-05-2011, 06:53 AM
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Cheap = Drywall saw (like 10 bucks), mechanical, 4-5 outlets is ok, big jobs, and you'll probably get tired of sawing.
expensive = rotozip or dremel (like 100 bucks)
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post #741 of 1772 Old 05-05-2011, 07:23 AM - Thread Starter
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What about just getting a rotozip bit and using my drill? Will that work? And this may be the one millionth question in this thread...thanks for all your help guys!

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/...cStoreNum=6175

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post #742 of 1772 Old 05-05-2011, 07:42 AM
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I bought a rotozip for the same use (got it cheap on fleabay). I also bought a cheap hand saw for around $10 at HD. Comparing the 2, if I only needed to do a few outlets, I wouldn't think twice about just buying the hand saw and skipping the rotozip. Rotozips are smooth to use, but they are EXTREMELY dirty, hard to clean up, and can actually be a little difficult to maneuver at first. By comparison, the cheap hand saws are very accurate, quick to clean, and don't grind the gypsum into a fine powder.

That being said...I'm always willing to justify a tool purchase for some unknown project 'down the road,' and the rotozips/dremels are pretty handy tools.

If you're thinking about just trying to use a bit with your drill, I'd skip that idea and go with a hand saw. Any wobble in your wrist while trying to use it like that will cut some really nice wavy lines in your drywall.


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post #743 of 1772 Old 05-05-2011, 07:57 AM
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If you are cutting round holes for recessed lights, they sell adjustable hole saws with a bit in the center and a blade on one end. You stick it in your drill and it will cut a round hole in a few seconds. They are cheap and work great. If you need to cut the drywall for outlet boxes or other square holes, the drywall saw is the easiest way to go.

The rotozip sounds cool, but isn't as easy to use as it looks. Plus, if you don't have other uses for it, put that money into something else. Drywall is very easy to cut, so it really won't save you much time.


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post #744 of 1772 Old 05-05-2011, 08:05 AM
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When my drywallers were doing install, they let me practice with their rotozip on a ceiling can light over my bar sink. Well....I'll just say that was the last offer...looked like a hole with a large bubble off of it where I went wacky. The mudder easily patched it though.

Subsequently, for some other holes I made (screen wash lights) I just used my Dremel with a zip bit and that worked out much better (having learned my lesson) but still takes considerable concentration to get it nice. And, the dust does SUCK.

I'd just go for the hand saw unless you can see future use, as others have mentioned.

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post #745 of 1772 Old 05-05-2011, 08:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok great, thanks guys. So I'll grab either a hole saw bit or the adjustable jobbie Nick mentioned. And I think I have a drywall saw hanging around somewhere...

Tying up the loose ends before starting drywall is proving to be much more time consuming than I expected. My electrician is very nice, but he didn't do the tidiest install, so last night I spent a lot of time reorganizing wires. I just couldn't close up the walls with it looking like that (I know - anal, but it would have bothered me, and if there was a rattle I would've been super cranky! ). I still have to re-route a few wires tonight, finish insulating, and figure out the hat channel situation. I'm trying to come up with a solution that doesn't require taking every clip down and starting over, but I think that would require either cutting every sheet of drywall or adding 20 more clips. Looks like they're all coming down...

Pearl of wisdom: do some figuring and maybe even draw it out on graph paper before you just slap a bunch of clips on the ceiling! I got too over-zealous on that one for sure...

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post #746 of 1772 Old 05-05-2011, 08:16 AM
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I bought a rotozip, but I was finishing my whole basement. Metal boxes were easier to "feel" than the plastic boxes, but after a couple boxes it was a piece of cake. I drywalled my whole basement and didnt waste a single piece of drywall due to mis-measuring. I felt the biggest benefit was probably doing the can lights, as it can be kind of tough to make sure my circle is centered when cutting it without the dremel.

That said, if I only had a few boxes to do, I would do it the old fashioned way - with a drywall saw. Measure twice and cut once and you sholdnt have any problems.

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post #747 of 1772 Old 05-05-2011, 08:40 AM
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Drywall saw has always worked fine for me, never had a job big enough to justify getting a rotozip. The circle cutters are nice, but too single purpose IMHO, just wouldn't use it that often.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by AirBenji View Post

I'm trying to come up with a solution that doesn't require taking every clip down and starting over, but I think that would require either cutting every sheet of drywall or adding 20 more clips. Looks like they're all coming down...

Pearl of wisdom: do some figuring and maybe even draw it out on graph paper before you just slap a bunch of clips on the ceiling! I got too over-zealous on that one for sure...

Ben, not sure what the actual channel problem is (recall that maybe your channel isn't exactly on 48" centers) but I do recall seeing in past posts that for the first layer of drywall it isn't absolutely necessary to have the drywall edge land on a channel (can hang over). Your second layer which does need to land it's edge on a channel will provide support to that first layer (assuming you have overlap of second layer at first layer "unconnected" edge). I recall as well that there is a special drywall screw (drywall to drywall) you can use to pull those areas tight together. This has been a while ago and don't recall the thread(s). Edit: here's the screw:http://www.grabberman.com/ItemDetail...icing#Features

Maybe that method would allow you to just have to cut your second layer vs. cutting both (if that's what you had in mind) and save you from re-arranging all of your channel.

Floyd

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post #749 of 1772 Old 05-05-2011, 01:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks fotto - I'll definitely look into that! The problem I'm having is basically this: if facing the screen wall, I started from left to right with the channel...but basically I started off a little too close to the side wall and didn't account for the electrical wires that are there now. So basically my clips are 47" from the side wall. It just means that I would have to cut 1" off of everything that's over on that side of the theater. Probably a lot better than taking down a million clips and moving them to the right one inch!

I also have some issues where I'm going to need to have breaks in the channel for the backer boxes. I was concerned about this so I talked to Ted. He said no biggie, so I think rather than rearrange, I'll go that route...although it requires ordering another 15-20 clips. That's my story for now...

The Esquire Theater Construction Thread:

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post #750 of 1772 Old 05-10-2011, 07:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok I have been trying to force myself not to post until I can say the room is ready for drywall, but obviously that's not gonna happen. Theater progress has been a little slow, but I am still making progress.

When I'm frustrated with a lack of progress, I tend to buy stuff. So I finally ordered the Oppo 93 this weekend and the light trims will be on the way shortly too. I was also going to order the Triad OnWall Bronze surrounds this weekend, but I haven't made a final decision on the color scheme for the room yet, and since my speakers are going to be visible in the room, I didn't want to miss out on the custom paint/grill matching they do. (I think my acoustic panels are going to end up being black, but not 100% sure yet.)

Regarding the color scheme, here's where I think I'm heading: these are blatantly stolen from John H's thread...I really like the light/darker gray colors...





I was originally tempted to go a little darker than this, but quite a bit more of my walls will be covered by acoustical panels than his...and if my panels are black, my room could quickly turn into a cave (which I don't want). I also think I'll look for a carpet with a little bit of a pattern in it...but you get the idea.

Anyway, finishing up insulation (sadly...very slowly) this week...hoping to get the first sheet of drywall up there before the weekend!

The Esquire Theater Construction Thread:

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