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post #91 of 1772 Old 11-24-2010, 10:57 AM
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I'm sure it's not THAT big of a difference. If the clips let you keep the gas/water lines where they are now it's got to be cheaper. Of course, I'd have to ask a plumber for a quote just to be sure.
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post #92 of 1772 Old 11-24-2010, 10:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok sounds good - I think floating joists may be a biting off a little more than I can chew.

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post #93 of 1772 Old 11-24-2010, 10:59 AM
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Or... just build around them. Make your room in a room smaller and have a 2' gap or whatever all the way around. Space is great for sound isolation.
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post #94 of 1772 Old 11-24-2010, 11:04 AM - Thread Starter
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I saw another thread a while back where someone paid a plumber $210 to move the natural gas line only. And mine appears to be a little more involved than his was because I have a split for a fireplace. Then I also have the main water line to the house and a hot line that a plumber would also have to move.

I'm also thinking about leaving the pipe where it is and adding a split for a gas range in the kitchen at some point and a split for the grill outside...the range and outdoor grill locations are both close to the current pipe and I figure I should do these things before access from below becomes an issue...

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post #95 of 1772 Old 11-24-2010, 11:06 AM
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All the more reason to stick with clips & channel

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post #96 of 1772 Old 11-24-2010, 11:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Cutter - I agree that space around would be ideal - 2 of my walls are against the foundation, one (staggered stud) will border a mechanicals room/bath, and the other (double stud) will border on the finished area of the basement. Unfortunately, room width is the real limiting factor, and 4 seats in the front row are a pre-requisite for me. (Maybe I'm crazy, but I often watch movies with my girlfriend and another couple, and I feel like it would be weird if we couldn't all sit in the same row.) So unfortunately, space is at a premium and I won't be able to create those gaps. But in theory, I agree with you!

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post #97 of 1772 Old 11-24-2010, 11:25 AM
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I just started putting clips and channel up. The system has some nice flex to it, so I can imagine it decouples pretty well.

Another vote for clips and channel so you can be more anal in another, more important area of the build! ha ha!

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post #98 of 1772 Old 11-24-2010, 11:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Cool Andreas! I'll try to stop by this weekend to check it out!

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post #99 of 1772 Old 11-24-2010, 07:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AirBenji View Post

I saw another thread a while back where someone paid a plumber $210 to move the natural gas line only....

I paid a plumber $600+ for him to move the line to the two AC units outside. He moved it 3 FEET!!!! I paid the same guy later in the build to move my shutoff valves for the spigot outside...that was another $250.

Anytime you can get away with building around something, go for it... You'll nbe surprised how much we focus on sound isolation and the gain for some of it is SO, SO small.... I love my room and the isolation is great with DC-04's on the walls, clips/channel in the ceiling and DD/GG. Love it! More importantly, my wife loves it also...since she can't hear a peep directly upstairs. Except maybe when the two DD-15's are pumping away during a heavy action scene. Even then, it's a very, very small rumble that she can only hear in dead silence upstairs. With 3 kids, there is very rarely dead silence.
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post #100 of 1772 Old 11-25-2010, 10:14 PM - Thread Starter
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$600...ouch! I am definitely going to leave the gas line where it is. The only plumbing work that (I think) needs to be done is to move the shutoff/split for the little line that goes to the refrigerator ice maker. Hopefully, that won't be too big of a deal.

I didn't get too much done over the last 2 days, but made a bit more progress on the insulation. Now I'm starting to think about framing...I have a few questions that I'll post regarding a support column. I need to come up wth a framing solution to minimize its protrusion into the room. I have a few ideas but I don't know if they're sound from an isolation perpective...and I'll try to post my floor plan too.

Hope everyone had a great Thanksgiving!

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post #101 of 1772 Old 11-25-2010, 10:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Haha I never looked down that far to see where the "attach files" section was! DUH!! Well, here's my floor plan. The right wall in the pic borders on the already-finished part of my basement. All of the other walls are exterior walls.

I have been in touch with Dennis and am really excited about the direction this is going. It's going to be waaay better than if we had tried to adapt the other already-finished space into a theater.

 

Bodner Updated Theater Space.pdf 18.728515625k . file
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File Type: pdf Bodner Updated Theater Space.pdf (18.7 KB, 28 views)

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post #102 of 1772 Old 11-28-2010, 08:49 PM - Thread Starter
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OK so today was a very exciting day - DE is the man and layout plans for the theater are finished! Approximate dimensions are about 14' x 24.5' and the bump-out in the back will be a separate equipment and projector room. I'm really excited to keep moving along!

Annnd I spent some more time today on the rigid foam. I'm almost ready to declare the exterior insulation finished - hopefully I'll get that done this week. The room is going to be a little longer than I originally planned, so I have to Drylok about 6 more feet of wall space (yuck) and then put foam up.

Next Steps:

1 - Decide on a sound-proofing solution (and most likely annoy Ted to death in the process). I'm definitely doing clips and channel on the ceiling, but I haven't decded if I'm also going to do clips/channel on the side walls. I'm concerned about room width, so I may only use DC-04 clips to attach the framing to the joists and then just attach the drywally directly to the walls. If anyone has input on this, I'm very interested...

2 - HVAC - Need to deal with a duct that's currently in the way and add 2 new supplies and returns (one each for the main room and one of each for the equipment room). This will include building dead vents etc. I'd like to DIY as much of this as possible, but I think this part of the project could be a hassle - there aren't a lot of spots for running HVAC vents...definitey will need to consult a pro at some point on this one.

3 - Plumbing - need to relocate the junction point/shutoff for the little water line running to the refrigerator ice-maker. This one is beyond my skill set, so I'll be contracting it out to a pro...

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post #103 of 1772 Old 11-29-2010, 08:58 AM
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I think you only need to do clips/channels in the wall if the framing already exists and is not decoupled. If you are putting new framing, frame 1" inside of the foam, then attach the top to joists with DC-04s, and tapcon the bottoms. That's what I did....

John will help you with all those questions when you call and then send you some helpful install guides. If you do it now, you'll get a better idea of what you need to do. Then order it when you need it.

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post #104 of 1772 Old 11-29-2010, 09:25 AM
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I don't think there's much to be gained from clips on the walls. If you're using DD+GG just use metal studs for your walls and call it a day. If you're going wood, stagger them up. Whichever way, the quality of the job is going to come down to the door(s). Is your plan to clip+hat+DD+GG the entire floorplan ceiling?
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post #105 of 1772 Old 11-29-2010, 09:36 AM
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Decoupled partitions deal with low frequencies better. The flex from steel studs is nice, but its not decoupling.

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post #106 of 1772 Old 11-29-2010, 10:55 AM
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Will it matter if he clips the walls if he's rocking an unsealed hollow door?
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post #107 of 1772 Old 11-29-2010, 11:02 AM
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Is he planning to use a hollow unsealed door?


In any event, double studs are better than clips & channel, which are better than staggered.

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post #108 of 1772 Old 11-29-2010, 11:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Hey Andreas - Yeah, I think that's the path I'm headed down. I have seen others do this and Mark Labelle also says he had great results with that method.

Cutter - yep, I am going to do RSIC-1 clips, channel, 5/8" DD + GG on the ceiling throughout. I have the natural gas line and some other plumbing in the way and I'm not planning to move it, so the clips/channel will provide me the necessary buffer above drywall/below joist.

I am planning to make both of my interior walls will be double stud. I have some concerns along the main long wall because I will be framing directly underneath the structural beam. I may have no choice but to use clips/channel on that wall, but I think I will just attach drywall to the studs on the others and use DC-04 clips to connect the framing to the floor joists above.

Regarding the door, I was thinking about a hollow core unsealed door, but I think I have decided to go with louvered doors instead.

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post #109 of 1772 Old 11-29-2010, 11:15 AM
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I have no idea about his door. But he should figure that out first. There's not much point in way over building the walls if his door doesn't match. I'm pretty sure steel studs with DD+GG will crush the door he'll likely install. Even with just wood studs he's probably way ahead of the door. Speaking of doors, weren't you working on one?

If there's something better than double studs, I haven't seen it. But then you need two doors and I'm not sure he's interested...
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post #110 of 1772 Old 11-29-2010, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AirBenji View Post

Regarding the door, I was thinking about a hollow core unsealed door, but I think I have decided to go with louvered doors instead.

I have heard screen doors work surprisingly well also.

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post #111 of 1772 Old 11-29-2010, 11:37 AM
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I say go for those beads hanging over the doorway. Those were really cool in the 60s and 70s.

Ben, ask about the Whisper RC clips. I think they are just a bit over $2 a pop which is better than $5 unless someone else is paying for it and you don't like them.

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post #112 of 1772 Old 11-29-2010, 12:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Haha actually, for the ultimate in sound isolation, I'm thinking now that the best option will be to use a louvered door over a screen door over some beads.

Andreas - I haven't had a chance to talk with Ted about the STC difference between RSIC-1 and Whisper Clips, and the price difference is definitely enticing, but I'm not sure the Whisper Clips will provide the clearance I need...the natural gas pipe is 1.5" in diameter, and a little thicker at one junction point, so I think I'll need the thickness of the RSIC-1. The more I think about it, the more concerned I am getting with the gas line touching the back of the drywall...I really don't want to deal with that.

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post #113 of 1772 Old 11-29-2010, 12:54 PM
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Ben, don't forget that you'll get the clearance of the channel plus clip since both the pipe and channel are running perpendicular to the joists. You might be pretty close. The gas pipe is really 1.5" in diameter? I don't remember it being that thick.

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post #114 of 1772 Old 11-29-2010, 12:55 PM
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Why's that a big deal? Don't want to wake the gas line deamons?
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post #115 of 1772 Old 11-29-2010, 01:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Cutter - I'm a little concerned about that because I'm afraid that drywall touching gas line and gas line touching the joists of the floor above will couple them and will transmit sound/vibration upstairs. Argh - if I have to eat a big bill to move that I am not gonna be excited...and it would have to be a re-routing of the entire thing.

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post #116 of 1772 Old 11-29-2010, 01:11 PM
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Ben, I don't think it would be *that* expensive. I had to put in over $600 of copper to move my heating pipes, plus costs for all my water lines and electric.....nevermind the labor or the tiny task of the beam. Your room is a dream comparatively.

I don't know what would be cheaper, moving the gas line or more expensive clips. I think Ted would like you to buy the clips though. JK Ted!

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post #117 of 1772 Old 11-29-2010, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AirBenji View Post

Andreas - I haven't had a chance to talk with Ted about the STC difference between RSIC-1 and Whisper Clips, and the price difference is definitely enticing, but I'm not sure the Whisper Clips will provide the clearance I need...the natural gas pipe is 1.5" in diameter, and a little thicker at one junction point, so I think I'll need the thickness of the RSIC-1.

Ben, I don't believe that the RSIC-1 will buy you any further distance than the WhisperClip. Both of these have an overall dimension of 1 5/8" with standard 7/8" hat channel installed. That 1 5/8" covers a distance from mounting surface of joist to mounting surface of hat channel (where drywall screws to).
You may get another 1/8" or so due to clip sag once drywall is hung, but Ted would need to elaborate on what to expect with regards to that.

So, if the bottom of your gas line is measured less than 1 5/8" at all points along it's length from your joists, you should be good to go.
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post #118 of 1772 Old 11-29-2010, 01:49 PM
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And how coupled we talking here? None of us can know for sure, but I doubt it'd be *that* big a deal to have some drywall touching a gas pipe touching a joist. There just can't be enough contact for a good (bad?) flanking path.
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post #119 of 1772 Old 11-29-2010, 02:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Floyd - You're definitely right - sorry I wasn't clear on that one...I have been to Andreas' house and seen the clips he's using, so I knew he was talking about the V-clip rather than the Whisperclip. I'm pretty sure the difference between the RSIC-1 clip and the V-Clip is 1/2".

Andreas - Yeah, I just called one of the bigger local plumbing/HVAC etc. places and they said their rate is $125 for first hour, $95 each additional hour, plus you pay travel time. Annnnnd he said 3-4 hours to move the pipe. OUCH. Then add in an additional hour or more to move the refrigerator water shutoff and materials and I'm into this for $750 or more. Grrrrrrr.

Cutter - I think you're probably right, but the last thing I want is to leave the pipe, hang a ton of drywall, finish the rest of the room, and then regret a $500 mistake (relatively small in the grand scheme).

I am also thinking that once all the weight of the DD + GG is on the clips and channel on the ceiling, I might have a little flexing in the channel (I'm using 20 gauge per DE), giving me a little more distance between drywall and joist. Anyone know if this is likely to be true?

Long story short, the plan for now is as follows: get a few clips and some channel, jack that pipe up so it's super-snug against the joist, and check to see if I have clearance. If not, call a more reasonably priced plumber than the shop I was just talking to.

Here's a pic of the pipe. You can see how thick it is by comparing to the hot/cold lines on the other side of the pic. Those will fit easily between the joist and drywall. You can also see that the rigid foam is almost complete.
[IMG][/IMG]

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post #120 of 1772 Old 11-29-2010, 02:45 PM
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Ben is right, the Whisper RC clips don't have the mount on the bottom, so are only 1 3/8" tall.

I feel confident I could move your water line. If it was my gas line, I would attempt moving it. The only problem is that I have a deadline! The water line wouldn't take long, but it isn't as expensive anyway.

The clips will have some sag with a couple thousand pounds of drywall hanging from it!

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