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post #31 of 300 Old 01-13-2011, 06:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks Andreas, I will hit them up and see what they think

Here are some pictures of the basement room, again, the room right now is about 14 ft long by 10.5 ft wide. I want to move the wall past the window to the 2nd concrete line maybe a little farther but not much...





















And now here is the room all gutted of drywall and most insulation...











Here is the corner door area of the wall I want to remove/move...







The piping you see will be moved and tucked up against the wall and the copper water lines will be tucked up into the ceiling, I want the room to be able to do a DD/GG ceiling along with the walls..







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post #32 of 300 Old 01-13-2011, 08:37 PM
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What is the rationale for doing a separated stud wall with dd/gg next to a concrete wall? STC for six or so inches of concrete is about equal to most of the staggered stud dd/gg construction techniques and is probably much superior at frquencies below the STC measurements. I'm sure the extra mile always helps some, but how much and at what expense? Especially in this case where space is at a premium, the decoupled wall will not be able to support a decoupled ceiling, and by far the weakest link in the room will be the ceiling. Overall, how much can be gained from a tiny improvement on only some of the rooms boundaries?

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post #33 of 300 Old 01-13-2011, 09:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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What is the rationale for doing a separated stud wall with dd/gg next to a concrete wall? STC for six or so inches of concrete is about equal to most of the staggered stud dd/gg construction techniques and is probably much superior at frquencies below the STC measurements. I'm sure the extra mile always helps some, but how much and at what expense? Especially in this case where space is at a premium, the decoupled wall will not be able to support a decoupled ceiling, and by far the weakest link in the room will be the ceiling. Overall, how much can be gained from a tiny improvement on only some of the rooms boundaries?

I'm not sure if you're questioning me or another poster but like I mentioned, I DO NOT want to have to do a DD/GG setup on the concrete backed walls, I just don't know if the DD/GG setup would act only as sound reinforcing or will it act as obsorbtion as well? Will it mess with room acoustics or just play a part in keeping sound in the room? I haven't gotten that far yet in my researching.

Also, why will my ceiling be my weakest link? I'm a little confused there. My ceiling structure isn't any different from any other ceiling structure, what would a decoupled wall have to do with a supporting the ceiling?
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post #34 of 300 Old 01-13-2011, 10:54 PM
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Weakest link in that due to height constraints you can't really construct a separate, second, isolated ceiling even if you wanted. As in the room inside a room concept. However you could potentially do so for all four walls if desired. My point is why go through the trouble of a room in a room construction if you can't do it for all room boundaries. And my other question is if room in a room is necessary for a solid concrete wall.

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post #35 of 300 Old 01-13-2011, 11:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Weakest link in that due to height constraints you can't really construct a separate, second, isolated ceiling even if you wanted. As in the room inside a room concept. However you could potentially do so for all four walls if desired. My point is why go through the trouble of a room in a room construction if you can't do it for all room boundaries. And my other question is if room in a room is necessary for a solid concrete wall.

I kind of understand now. Although, if I were to do channels and clips with DD/GG for the ceiling, the ceiling will still be plenty high, I don't see why you think it won't be. Even after all of that, the ceiling will still sit higher than it did when I had the drop ceiling up there. I could potentially do just DD/GG on the ceiling without the channels and clips, no?

Are you're saying that if I can't/don't need to do C/C/DD/GG on the concrete walls, why do it on the other 2?

Are you also saying that if I don't do C/C/DD/GG on all walls, I can't do it on the ceiling, if so, why?

Still a little confused..

To be honest though, I'm sure I'd be plenty happy with only DD/GG all the way around. The ceiling is really the only part I would like to sound proof the most since the rest of the walls don't lead into the upstairs.
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post #36 of 300 Old 01-14-2011, 03:30 AM
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I would give Ted a call as he/they know better than I. The walls are connected to the joists as they are now, so you will get sound conducted up through the house. That is why decoupling is good.

No one does true room in room anymore, it seems. We are all using clips/channels on the ceiling and DC-04s to decouple the walls. The biggest expense is the GG, so why not spring for the extra $300-400 for the clips/channel/DC-04s and do it right? You are going to do all the work of DD anyway?

Current HT: HTPC-->Epson 5010 projector-->135" screen, BFM TLAHs x7 & THT
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post #37 of 300 Old 01-14-2011, 08:13 AM
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Chris,

I'd definitely do clips and dd/gg on the ceiling and any freestanding stud walls. Sorry fir the confusion. The ceiling height will be fine and I realize it is improved over the prior drip ceiling. I just don't think you have the height to do a second isolated ceiling, ie another set of ceiling joists with clear space below the existing joists. You'd lose at least 8" of height, maybe 10.

But no one was suggesting that. What was suggested was a stud wall separated from existing concrete walls and I questioned the necessity.

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post #38 of 300 Old 01-14-2011, 08:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Chris,

I'd definitely do clips and dd/gg on the ceiling and any freestanding stud walls. Sorry fir the confusion. The ceiling height will be fine and I realize it is improved over the prior drip ceiling. I just don't think you have the height to do a second isolated ceiling, ie another set of ceiling joists with clear space below the existing joists. You'd lose at least 8" of height, maybe 10.

But no one was suggesting that. What was suggested was a stud wall separated from existing concrete walls and I questioned the necessity.

I now understand how I wouldn't have room to do a separated ceiling, thanks for clearing that up for me. I don't think I will have to separate the walls from the concrete either. I am going to contact The Soundproofing Company and see what their thoughts are. Thank you for yours
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post #39 of 300 Old 01-14-2011, 10:34 AM
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More importantly, what's the deal with the light bulb in this picture? It looks like 3 bulbs.

-Suntan

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post #40 of 300 Old 01-15-2011, 08:29 AM - Thread Starter
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LMAO!!! Here is a closeup just for you


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post #41 of 300 Old 01-22-2011, 02:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Just a quick update...

Not too much progress, I did remove the front wall the other day and spent the past couple of nights cleaning the rest of the basement, throwing out old sheetrock, tidying up the lumber, etc. I am in the middle of finding out what ppl think of a line array/manifold IB setup which is my new sub plan. I kind of want to figure this out before building the wall so I know how much to brace it, etc.

This week I should be getting the plumbing re-routed and next, some framing.

Stay tuned
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post #42 of 300 Old 01-27-2011, 03:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Ughh, plumbing isn't done, my homie didn't come thruuu yet :-(

Hopefully today or tomorrow, (possible but not probable, worst case next week), the plumbing will get done. Also, the town is being a pain in getting me my permit to relocate the darn wall. They want a room layout drawing and everything... gRrr!

Stay tuned!
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post #43 of 300 Old 02-07-2011, 01:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Well, small update I guess. I did get my permit in the mail middle of last week, but my buddy still hasn't come through. : (

I am all set to get the plumbing and my wall up, dying to get it going. Luckly I have other things to keep me occupied but my tax return will be coming soon so that means it's almost time to start buying equiptment : D

I will keep you guys posted!
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post #44 of 300 Old 03-20-2011, 10:23 PM - Thread Starter
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YAY!!! Finally making some progress! Floor has been extended and new walls are starting to go up! I will post pictures soon

I do have a question though... I will need to get a door soon, solid core or solid wood is what I'm looking at, but the catch is that my door will have to be shorter than normal by about 6"-8" or so because of clearance issues... What do you guys recommend for a door and frame? I'm looking for a nice solid door to help keep sound in but I'm not looking for a total sound proof room, just something solid and tight.. Any suggestions?
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post #45 of 300 Old 03-20-2011, 11:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Digital_Chris View Post

I am in the middle of finding out what ppl think of a line array/manifold IB setup which is my new sub plan. I kind of want to figure this out before building the wall so I know how much to brace it, etc.

Where would you be putting the IB sub if you plan on doing this - How much space do you have for it - I think it would be great if you have the room for it.
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post #46 of 300 Old 03-21-2011, 03:56 AM - Thread Starter
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I plan on doing 4 18's in a line array below my screen with the back of them open to the rest of the basement... should work out well

I decided to build my wall from doubled up 2x6's, 24" on center with double 5/8" subfloor plywood on top. I think that should give me plenty of bracing and I can always box around each sub, bracing them even more.
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post #47 of 300 Old 03-21-2011, 07:04 AM
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Excellent plan. I would do the same if it wasn't for lack of sound proofing. You should have plenty of bass! I'll have to visit when you have it done. Which 18s?

Current HT: HTPC-->Epson 5010 projector-->135" screen, BFM TLAHs x7 & THT
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post #48 of 300 Old 03-21-2011, 07:59 AM
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That is a nice looking chair. I see they are on sale.


I agree
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post #49 of 300 Old 03-21-2011, 08:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Digital_Chris View Post

I plan on doing 4 18's in a line array below my screen with the back of them open to the rest of the basement... should work out well

Sounds good- I'm using the Fi IB18's in my build. I'll be watching your progress.
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post #50 of 300 Old 03-21-2011, 02:42 PM - Thread Starter
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I agree

Definitely still looking into those, just not sure on room color if I go with the red chairs, hmm...

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Excellent plan. I would do the same if it wasn't for lack of sound proofing. You should have plenty of bass! I'll have to visit when you have it done. Which 18s?

The same ones stockmonkey just mentioned, the Fi IB3's look like to me my best choice. Last time I heard, they also offer a discount when you buy 4 or more? The only thing I don't know are specs on the subs, when you click on them on Fi's page, there is no info

Either way, I can't wait! Pictures of the little bit of progress will arrive soon
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post #51 of 300 Old 03-21-2011, 02:49 PM
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Those drivers are not available anymore, but should be sometime when Blueprint offers them again.

Current HT: HTPC-->Epson 5010 projector-->135" screen, BFM TLAHs x7 & THT
Build log: DIY rotary sub for contemporary HT in 100 year old house?
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post #52 of 300 Old 03-21-2011, 03:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Aww man, is there any word on how soon they will offer them? I planned on buying the subs in the next month or so, if i can't get the Fi's in time, are there any other similar options for IB subs? I'm not too familiar with IB sub company's besides Fi and Dayton.

On a good note, here are a few pics of the upgrade work so far...







We removed the copper water lines to the kitchen sink and replaced them with PEX tubing and fittings up into the beams, that way I can put drywall up there. The sink drain is the next upgrade, will be done in a few days...





The final room dimensions with CC/DD should be just about 18' long by 10.5' wide by 7' high, should be a nice size for 6 seats (2 rows of 3)

Also, this just came to mind... How would I mount my speakers and subs if I have channels and clips along with double 5/8" drywall on all walls? I wanted to flush mount the speakers and subs, just not sure how people have done this in the past. Do I just mount the speakers to the drywall and then for the subs, cut out the drywall for the subs and mount the subs to the plywood on the wall frame? Any pointers would be great
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post #53 of 300 Old 03-21-2011, 05:10 PM
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Nobody knows when they will be available. They should have already been: http://www.homeaudioforum.net/topic/...e-print-audio/

Current HT: HTPC-->Epson 5010 projector-->135" screen, BFM TLAHs x7 & THT
Build log: DIY rotary sub for contemporary HT in 100 year old house?
Andreas' Slow Rotary Sub build
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post #54 of 300 Old 03-21-2011, 05:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Great! Thanks for the link
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post #55 of 300 Old 03-27-2011, 09:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Well, plans didn't go smooth this weekend. My buddy couldn't get here sunday so I'm REALLY hoping we can get together this week for a few days and crank out that last wall. If anyone has door suggestions, I'm all ears as that will be my next hold up
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post #56 of 300 Old 04-10-2011, 04:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Oh MY Gosh!! FInally got some work done. The screen wall is up, braced better than originally planned, no such think as too much weight and rigidity when it comes to a line array

Check it out!!

Here is the plumbing, nicely tucked up against the wall and corner..







The wall itself is made from 2x6's roughly 24" OC. The 3 middle sets of studs are tripled up and the ends are doubled, I'm sure it's not a necessity but I had the wood so why not..













So there it is, next week is framing out for the door which I am still unsure of what to get. Couple off issues I am in the middle of working on...

1. I mentioned the door, I have about 4" less room than a standard door requires and I need a nice solid door. What are your recommendations? Should I see if Home Depot can custom order something for me? Should I have a custom exterior solid door made? I'm not too sure on where to start besides the knowing the specs of the door itself (solid, heavy and flat).

2. Speakers, specifically the center channel. I don't want to have to cut and box around the center studs to make room for the center speaker. I do plan on DIY so that should make it easier for me. Can I make a dual woofer/tweeter speaker to where each set (woofer and tweeter) can straddle the center stud (if you can picture what I mean)?

If I didn't mention earlier, I will be making all surround speakers in-wall and LCR behind the AT screen in-wall as well.

All ideas welcome
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post #57 of 300 Old 04-10-2011, 05:50 PM
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Congratulations on the progress you've made! What AT screen have you decided to go with? I have been looking at the Seymour screens. I really like their pricing and am impressed with their published audio specs. I just wish I could demo one first!

Have you ordered or decided on your seating? I like the looks of those chairs you posted earlier.
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post #58 of 300 Old 04-10-2011, 06:20 PM
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I have the Seymour AT screen. You can get a 8.5" x 11" sample shipped to you for free. Mount it over a speaker and see if you can tell the difference! You can also project onto it to see what type of brightness you get. I have a 135" screen with it (and love it).

Chris, I am making my own door with 2 pieces of 3/4" ply with GG between. It depends on how you want it to look. I will have something decorative on both sides, so no worries for me. For the center, you could do that. It is not typically done, but the tweets really don't need a box anyway, so put the mid(s) in a box and the tweet(s) in a smaller box just for mounting. Sure, they will be separated by a few inches, but there is always some separation even in the same box.

Current HT: HTPC-->Epson 5010 projector-->135" screen, BFM TLAHs x7 & THT
Build log: DIY rotary sub for contemporary HT in 100 year old house?
Andreas' Slow Rotary Sub build
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post #59 of 300 Old 04-10-2011, 11:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Congratulations on the progress you've made! What AT screen have you decided to go with? I have been looking at the Seymour screens. I really like their pricing and am impressed with their published audio specs. I just wish I could demo one first!

Have you ordered or decided on your seating? I like the looks of those chairs you posted earlier.

Thanks dan, appreciate it

I think I'm going to go with the Seymore Center Stage XD screen like Andreas mentioned. Everyone seems to like it and the price is nice. I might get a sample myself since it's a no cost item.

As far as the seats, I really really want the red ones but just can't think of a color for the walls or even a good theme that would look right. Any ideas? I was thinking maybe along the lines of a dark blue, idk.

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Chris, I am making my own door with 2 pieces of 3/4" ply with GG between. It depends on how you want it to look. I will have something decorative on both sides, so no worries for me. For the center, you could do that. It is not typically done, but the tweets really don't need a box anyway, so put the mid(s) in a box and the tweet(s) in a smaller box just for mounting. Sure, they will be separated by a few inches, but there is always some separation even in the same box.

As far as the door goes, I don't have the craftsmanship or even the knowledge on how to build my own door and frame as well as attach hinges (eek!) so I don't know if that will be the route for me. Maybe I'll look into it thought and see how hard it might be... but I do know one thing, I want to use those industrial handles you posted about in your thread, did you end up using those yourself?

For the center speaker, and the LCR set in general, are there any other options you Andreas or anyone else can recommend that will get me reference level in my "small" room without breaking the bank? I won't be listening to movies at that volume but I want the head room. Also, if the setup that you recommend will need external amps, don't forget to mention that
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post #60 of 300 Old 04-11-2011, 06:01 AM
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Other options for the door include buying one and then cutting it down to size. If you do not have a standard door opening, I don't see being able to getting around the need to make your own jamb for the door. Prehung doors must come in any number of sizes. I'm sure Home Depot or Lowes can custom order one for you though.

For my door, I'm just cutting two 3/4" thick pieces of ply for the door on the table saw to fit the opening with the jambs. The jamb is just 1 x 6s ripped down for the width of the framing plue drywall. You can look at how hinges are installed on Youtube. You use a chisel. You just have to be careful everything lines up well. I don't know if you are using the automatic door drop and adjustable stops to seal the door, but if you are, then you'll have to modify the frame of a door anyway. Then if you are using DD, your framing will be thicker than a normal pre hung door allows.

Yes, I'm using those handles for my doors. That is, when I can get them installed.

You shouldn't need an external amp (only your AVR) for your LCRs with efficient speakers. I like my TLAHs and I made them for about $30 each. You know they go well over reference. I don't think the mids are available anymore that I used. Also, you need to EQ them which I let Audyssey do for me. I know the Econowaves on the DIY section are well regarded, but depends on your budget. What is your "bank"?

Current HT: HTPC-->Epson 5010 projector-->135" screen, BFM TLAHs x7 & THT
Build log: DIY rotary sub for contemporary HT in 100 year old house?
Andreas' Slow Rotary Sub build
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