"Reel Time" Build Log-14' Scope, 9.7 17,000W Transducer Audio, Dedicated Stadium Room - Page 6 - AVS Forum
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post #151 of 368 Old 01-21-2012, 01:07 PM
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Looks nice with the black paint. It certainly changes the look of the room. I feel for you when thinking about all those pesky angles you have to cut in order for the trim to get in place. Glad it's not me

Keep up the good work. You seem to be making fine progress.
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post #152 of 368 Old 01-21-2012, 01:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Looks nice with the black paint. It certainly changes the look of the room. I feel for you when thinking about all those pesky angles you have to cut in order for the trim to get in place. Glad it's not me

Keep up the good work. You seem to be making fine progress.

Thanks! Both side walls done now, but I will wait for my rope lighting supplies to come before I put up the crown. That way I can install the rope track much easier and the rope light itself. I can still get to the rope light if I need to adjust/replace.

Working on the back bar area right now. That gets a top and bottom baseboard before the crown is attached. Slower going though even without all those crazy angles. No wood studs in some of it so I'm gluing and nailing to hold while it cures. The crown can attach right into the baseboard trim.
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post #153 of 368 Old 01-23-2012, 04:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Finished up the trim in the small foyer room and the back area of the HT. I figure that I'm about 60% done trimwork. Largest item to do will be the crown on the side walls and installing the rope light track and rope behind it. Should come in this week to have that to do next weekend.













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post #154 of 368 Old 01-23-2012, 08:09 AM
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Now that is some serious crown molding .. nice work. I don't envy the job of filling all those nail holes and cracks. My arms ache just thinking about it.

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post #155 of 368 Old 01-24-2012, 02:30 AM
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Wow RTD.....,

I seldom see such multi-layered Crown without some degree of Dental molding being involved to break up the horizontal lines.

But it looks splendid, and your doing as good a job with it as any Pro Trim Carpenter I've been around. Maybe better since your going to Paint, but the precision of those Copes looks good enough for Stain. I've always hated the "Putty fixes everything" school of Trim Carpentry.

I'm really just waiting for the call to go out announcing a AVS Member Premier. This Theater deserves an audience!

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post #156 of 368 Old 01-24-2012, 04:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the compliments Moggie and MMan! I wish all those miter cuts where as clean as the ones I chose to take pics of. There are some that aren't as pretty, but most of them are pretty tight. It remains to be seen how well the side wall crown will go with all those damn angles. I'm not attaching to the ceiling (rope light behind) there, so I have some more room for error.

Hard to get from the pics, but there are a number of flat spaces in the overall buildup of the crown to help break it up. I agree the dental is often used to do this, but it didn't seem to fit the room and the other design.

As for the finish, I'm deciding between either a faux wood application or a two-tone color to help separate some of the crown - maybe deep bronzey gold with a deep gold accent. Something like that. Working on the wallpaper first and then taking off the wall and trim color from that.
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post #157 of 368 Old 01-24-2012, 05:57 AM
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RTD - looks amazing! Great architectural build-ups.

One question I've been meaning to ask you: Am I misremembering, or were you originally thinking about building this out of hardwoods (Mahogany)?

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post #158 of 368 Old 01-24-2012, 06:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cowger View Post

RTD - looks amazing! Great architectural build-ups.

One question I've been meaning to ask you: Am I misremembering, or were you originally thinking about building this out of hardwoods (Mahogany)?

Bryan

Thanks Bryan.

Yes, you are remembering correctly. We were thinking about that at one time. Cost and level of work required pulled me away from it. I really wanted all the build up and with all that molding it would have been pretty expensive. I'm right at $1,000 just for this trim. But we are considering a faux mahogangy finish that might work. The wall bar and the sit down third row wall is all mahogany so there would be a tie-in.
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post #159 of 368 Old 01-24-2012, 10:44 AM
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Steve, all I can say is this: You made a good decision! I remained on the Mahogany track, and now a year later, I'm still working on finishing it out. It feels like building a 15' x 25' piece of furniture...

Be happy, as I'm sure you are! : )

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post #160 of 368 Old 01-24-2012, 10:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by cowger View Post

Steve, all I can say is this: You made a good decision! I remained on the Mahogany track, and now a year later, I'm still working on finishing it out. It feels like building a 15' x 25' piece of furniture...

Be happy, as I'm sure you are! : )

Bryan

That's was part of my decision! Keep at it, as I'm sure it will be beautiful when finished!
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post #161 of 368 Old 01-25-2012, 08:00 PM
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the crown molding looks awesome! I love it.
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post #162 of 368 Old 01-26-2012, 05:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Jon_B View Post

the crown molding looks awesome! I love it.

Thanks! I'm hoping to get to the side wall crown this weekend, but I've been deep into Chemistry helping my oldest get through it! Might be a long weekend in the books instead!
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post #163 of 368 Old 01-30-2012, 11:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Side Wall Crown

Well, I put in a few late nights this past week to help the oldest with chemistry, and was able to get back in the HT to work on the trim. I finally moved forward and tackled the crown for the side walls. As I expected, it was not fun, and quite frustrating. It took a little while to get going and find the best way to handle it. Finally figured out that assembling multiple pieces on the floor then installing was the best route. This was especially true to make sure I could tack the inside corners from behind to keep the miters tight. This was necessary since I was keeping the crown off the ceiling by 2" in order to install rope lighting behind.

Which brings me to a new problem. I purchased my 1/2" incandescent rope lighting (from 1000bulbs) and received it on Friday. After putting up a section of crown, I layed some rope behind it and turned off the lights to see how it looked. Well, IT LOOKED AWFUL! All I can see is this very shadowy light. Getting up there and twisting the rope around, I can tell it's the tiny wires within the rope light (clear warm while by the way) that's causing the shadows. No matter where I positioned it, it didn't get better. They only thing that worked was laying a piece of diffuser over it that I had around. But it will be a nightmare to cut and slide all those pieces of diffuser around this trim and wall. Plus I'd be very concerned with it rattling with heavy sound. I called 1000Bulbs and the salesman said he's been selling it for 17 years and never heard of this problem. He wants me to take some photos for him to see it. I'm not sure if it's because I have dark ceiling, but this isn't very good. ANY SUGGESTIONS/IDEAS WOULD BE GREATLY APPRECIATED!!!

Here's the latest shots:












AND I was able to get back in there for a half-day on Sunday and build and install the steps. Wrapped the baseboard around on one side, but still have it to do on the other. Nice not having to step up 12" to get around!

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post #164 of 368 Old 01-30-2012, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedTopDown View Post


Which brings me to a new problem. I purchased my 1/2" incandescent rope lighting (from 1000bulbs) and received it on Friday. After putting up a section of crown, I layed some rope behind it and turned off the lights to see how it looked. Well, IT LOOKED AWFUL! All I can see is this very shadowy light. Getting up there and twisting the rope around, I can tell it's the tiny wires within the rope light (clear warm while by the way) that's causing the shadows. No matter where I positioned it, it didn't get better. They only thing that worked was laying a piece of diffuser over it that I had around. But it will be a nightmare to cut and slide all those pieces of diffuser around this trim and wall. Plus I'd be very concerned with it rattling with heavy sound. I called 1000Bulbs and the salesman said he's been selling it for 17 years and never heard of this problem. He wants me to take some photos for him to see it. I'm not sure if it's because I have dark ceiling, but this isn't very good. ANY SUGGESTIONS/IDEAS WOULD BE GREATLY APPRECIATED!!!

I also bought the incandescent from 1000 bulbs and had the same issue. With the black background on my soffit it has a very rough appearance. My wife said that it looked dirty. I also bought a blue LED rope light and it was very bright and had a smooth appearance when I pointed the LED's down into the light tray. I then tried an amber LED rope and did the same and while it is not as bright as even the incandescent rope it has a smooth appearance. I'm going to remove the incandescent rope and use it in my columns where it will have an amber colored diffuser in front of it.

I have photos in my thread of the three rope lights. I think the LED ropes look much better than the incandescent.
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post #165 of 368 Old 01-30-2012, 04:17 PM
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I think the biggest issue is light absorption by the ultra dark ceiling. Light with varying levels of intensity will have the areas that are weaker in output seem all the more apparent when the adjoining reflective surface is absorbing energy.

Q's to answer:

How deep does the Rope Lighting set in the Crown's "cup"?
Did you leave the inside of the Crown Wood tone, or White primer'ed?

The best thing to try:

Line the bottom & sides of the "inside" of the Crown with smoothed Aluminum Foil, and paint the side of with "Wall" a bright gloss white, up to just before the point of where it would be visible from a lower vantage point of view.

Mount the Rope Light as close to or against the Wall, just before it would come into the visual range of eyes below.

Mounting the Lights on Top a White Gloss surface, and then catching the light off a Aluminum reflector on the angled Crown should amp up your performance.

Basically, you have to improve the dispersion of the Rope Light's lumen output, and direct more against the Wall / Ceiling interface, by creating a "Reflector Cup"

If I remember correctly, you mentioned you are not a Fan of LEDs.........right?

I do remember that I said the use of a Bright Blue Rope Light might look better than White because of the Black. Black naturally will reflect a truer color from a Blue light source than a white, the latter usually degrading quickly in warm tones.

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post #166 of 368 Old 01-30-2012, 04:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedTopDown View Post

Which brings me to a new problem. I purchased my 1/2" incandescent rope lighting (from 1000bulbs) and received it on Friday. After putting up a section of crown, I layed some rope behind it and turned off the lights to see how it looked. Well, IT LOOKED AWFUL! All I can see is this very shadowy light. Getting up there and twisting the rope around, I can tell it's the tiny wires within the rope light (clear warm while by the way) that's causing the shadows. No matter where I positioned it, it didn't get better.

Hmm, that sucks. I had a somewhat similar experience, but ended up with a look that I liked through repositioning the rope in the tray. I initially tested the rope (incandescent) out when my ceiling was primered, and it looked really nice, very glowy and diffuse. But then after painting the ceiling (darkest shade of brown), I found I got a hard edge and could see the "ripples" from each bulb element, and not very consistent. I found that the position that worked for white ceiling didn't work well for brown. I ended up repositioning the rope at the bottom of the tray, towards the outside edge (away from the wall). It gave me a harder edge, not as diffuse - but much more consistent light spread and got rid of those nasty light "ripples" when I had it all tacked down so its was the same distance all around.
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post #167 of 368 Old 01-30-2012, 04:22 PM
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Oh yeah.....and another thing about that Crown trim......




..............Wow.

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post #168 of 368 Old 01-30-2012, 05:18 PM
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RTD..looking good man...realllly like the trim job. nice profiles..cant wait to see it after you caulk and paint.

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post #169 of 368 Old 01-30-2012, 07:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Rope Lighting

First, thanks to all (SM2000, MMan, BH, & Skeets) on the responses and kudos.

Okay, finished up prep of the oldest for his chemistry midterm and went in to take some photos.

So here's the rope light held in the middle of the channel and at the top of it (highest point without being seen). You can clearly see all of the shadows the wires in the rope are making on the paint. By the way, the dark paint enhances it, but it's also visible when I hold the rope up against my white primed walls.




For the next pic, I pushed the rope all the way down into the bottom of the crown in the lowest part of the V. As you can see, almost all of the shadows are gone, but as BH commented, this produces a hard edge of light on the ceiling of which I don't like at all.




Here's a close-up with the rope in the bottom of the channel:



...and a close-up with the rope in the middle and on top of the channel:




The bottom of the channel is 4.5" from the ceiling. The top is 2". As one would expect, the closer to the ceiling you get, the better the dispersion, but the worse the shadows.


As for the blue incandescent, it's better at not casting shadows, but not by too much. It's also not very blue at all. Here it is held up...

...against the white primed wall:



...and against the dark ceiling:



Against the white wall, you can see that it still shadows very badly. The color is very light and more like teal.

Even against the dark ceiling you can see the shadows and the light output drops dramatically. Only the rope light itself looks more blue.

So... I guess I'll send my pics off to 1000Bulbs and see what they have to say. Something tells me that LED is in my future and MMan will be saying "I don't you so". I do hate LED lights when I see them out at Christmas time. Maybe rope lighting will be different somehow in that I'm not looking at the led lights themselves, only their output.

I did try lining a portion of the tray with aluminum foil. It helped a little bit to hide the shadows and amp up the light, but really not much at all. You had to look for it to see the difference. I added in a solid white thick, reflective paper on the wall of the channel, and again it helped in amping it up, but shadows were still heavily present.

So, there it is for now. Hopefully 1000Bulbs will be accommodating with returns should I go that route.

I'll keep everyone posted!
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post #170 of 368 Old 01-30-2012, 08:39 PM
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I think you need to consider that the "Hard Edge" represents optimal delivery of dispersed light, as the shadows are blended by the time the light reaches the top of the Crown.

This effect should be able to be muted using a dimmer. Be advised that a "brighter Light" will only offer you more of the above effect, but be harder to accommodate any dimming effect.

Seriously, grab one of the Dimmers you have and place it in-line and give that a shot.

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post #171 of 368 Old 01-30-2012, 10:32 PM
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I also bought the blue incandescent rope from 1000 bulbs and returned it because I didn't like the color. I ended up getting my led rope lights from an ebay seller that sold them in 66 feet increments. I needed 63 feet so it worked perfectly and was significantly cheaper than buying the 150 foot rolls. I know what you mean about the LED lights though. I really dislike the cool bluish tint on some white LED's. There are warm white LED's that look more like incandescent.
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post #172 of 368 Old 01-31-2012, 05:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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I think you need to consider that the "Hard Edge" represents optimal delivery of dispersed light, as the shadows are blended by the time the light reaches the top of the Crown.

This effect should be able to be muted using a dimmer. Be advised that a "brighter Light" will only offer you more of the above effect, but be harder to accommodate any dimming effect.

Seriously, grab one of the Dimmers you have and place it in-line and give that a shot.

I understand, and if the crown was pretty much straight down the wall, I might agree. But when it is changing direction and angle like mine is, the hard edge doesn't look good at all. The wife would rather have the shadows then the hard edge.

If I could get the shadows to diminish, allowing the rope to be more towards the top of the channel, that would be the best. Not sure if going LED would give that to me.
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post #173 of 368 Old 01-31-2012, 05:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by stockmonkey2000 View Post

I also bought the blue incandescent rope from 1000 bulbs and returned it because I didn't like the color. I ended up getting my led rope lights from an ebay seller that sold them in 66 feet increments. I needed 63 feet so it worked perfectly and was significantly cheaper than buying the 150 foot rolls. I know what you mean about the LED lights though. I really dislike the cool bluish tint on some white LED's. There are warm white LED's that look more like incandescent.

Good to know. Do you happen to remember the seller's ID that you got these from?
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post #174 of 368 Old 01-31-2012, 05:25 AM
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The trim is AMAZING! Fine work that demonstrates a great deal of patience. You should be proud.

I have the same issues with my rope lights. I haven't been able to get the look I'm after, so I've just been leaving them off. Might it be worth experimenting with the clear plastic bumpy stuff that is used for fluorescent light covers? Put the light at the top of the tray so you get the diffusion and then put a piece of that clear bumpy stuff over the top of the tray to diffuse the shadow lines?

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post #175 of 368 Old 01-31-2012, 05:33 AM - Thread Starter
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The trim is AMAZING! Fine work that demonstrates a great deal of patience. You should be proud.

I have the same issues with my rope lights. I haven't been able to get the look I'm after, so I've just been leaving them off. Might it be worth experimenting with the clear plastic bumpy stuff that is used for fluorescent light covers? Put the light at the top of the tray so you get the diffusion and then put a piece of that clear bumpy stuff over the top of the tray to diffuse the shadow lines?

Thanks Tony. I've actually been considering this. In playing around, I took a section of just the plastic channel they use for mounting rope light and turn it upside down on the rope. Other than the corners of the channel creating some darkness, it completely eliminated the shadows.

If I go with the diffuser, I have some issues to work out:

1) It's going to be a real pain to cut and assemble it to fit in all those ins and outs of the crown. I'm sure I'd have to overlap it in areas and glue it together and need to see if a double diffused area is noticeable.

2) I'm concerned of laying in the diffuser and then having it rattle with high bass/volumes. I don't want to glue it in, since I eventually will need to get it out to replace or fit drop outs.

3) I have to figure the best way to mount the rope light underneath of the diffuser. I need to play with gluing either clips or the channel to the diffuser itself and make sure that doesn't affect the light.

I might still need to go with LED to gain some brightness and to decrease the heat, especially if I'm going to cover up the channel with the diffuser. I have to change the blue as well since I'm not happy with the color it is creating.

Thanks!!
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post #176 of 368 Old 02-02-2012, 07:35 AM
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Good to know. Do you happen to remember the seller's ID that you got these from?

The seller was cbconcept_studio they sell them in a variety of lengths.
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post #177 of 368 Old 02-02-2012, 08:21 AM - Thread Starter
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The seller was cbconcept_studio they sell them in a variety of lengths.

Thanks! Waiting to hear back from 1000Bulbs as it was referred to a supervisor on what they'll do.
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post #178 of 368 Old 02-03-2012, 07:36 AM
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Rope Lighting
I did try lining a portion of the tray with aluminum foil. It helped a little bit to hide the shadows and amp up the light, but really not much at all. You had to look for it to see the difference. I added in a solid white thick, reflective paper on the wall of the channel, and again it helped in amping it up, but shadows were still heavily present.

So, there it is for now. Hopefully 1000Bulbs will be accommodating with returns should I go that route.

I'll keep everyone posted!

In my experience there are two things you can do. One is to add a aluminum foil backing (HVAC tape) as you have done. The other is to double up the rope lighting runs. Not only does this increase the available brightness but it also smoothes out the lighting effect. One other thing I did (with my blue LED lighting -- which runs cold. I wouldn't do this with incandescent..) was to stick some blue painters masking over the rope. This had the effect of a diffuser and evened out the glow without significant dimming.

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post #179 of 368 Old 02-03-2012, 01:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Moggie View Post

In my experience there are two things you can do. One is to add a aluminum foil backing (HVAC tape) as you have done. The other is to double up the rope lighting runs. Not only does this increase the available brightness but it also smoothes out the lighting effect. One other thing I did (with my blue LED lighting -- which runs cold. I wouldn't do this with incandescent..) was to stick some blue painters masking over the rope. This had the effect of a diffuser and evened out the glow without significant dimming.

Thanks for the input. I have a feeling I'm going to be going the LED route and the incandescent will be going back. Neat idea of the blue tape, I might have to try that one. I guess I might be able to do something like frosted shipping tape on the white.

I'm hoping to get back in there tomorrow, but came down with a nasty stomach flu yesterday and have been out for the count ever since!
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post #180 of 368 Old 02-08-2012, 07:41 AM - Thread Starter
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A little more progress. Came down with a stomach flu, so I didn't get a lot of time in the HT this past weekend. Coming down the home stretch on the trim and was able to finish off the entrance door, add trim at the front of the room, and trim out the AV closet around the racks.

AV Closet - left about a 1/4" around the rack to allow it to slide out on the platform I've previously photographed and talked about. The bottom baseboard is removed as it just sits below the rack.

Front Wall - I took the baseboard up the wall on both sides to "frame" out the screen a bit. I turned it to look more like a casing. I added a large 7-1/4" 5/4 trim board at the top which will get a decorative 18" tall corbel placed on top of it.

Remaining Trim - I have a baseboard and crown to install after I put up the star ceiling panels. I'm hoping to accomplish that this coming weekend!

Front Wall/Masking System - I've also ordered all the parts, motors, cloth, etc. to build a very, very large 4-way AT automated masking system. Total screen area behind will accomodate the 15' wide scope and 81" tall 16:9 image, so it's got a lot of size to cover all the way down to 4:3. Went with an ILT-based Somfy system which will give me 16 programmable stops per motor which will more that cover it. More to come on that!!!









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