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post #121 of 1236 Old 02-28-2011, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by NGiovas View Post

[/list]With that said, I need to button up a couple of decisions on my plans. I still haven't decided what size door to use going into the theater. I know I am going to use a solid core door, but I wasn't sure if smaller is better. My first thought was to go 36" so that it would be easier to move furniture in and out without tearing it up, but then I thought a smaller door would improve sound isolation. I'm not buying the door right now, but I need to know the size so I can frame the opening. Does anyone have a recommendation on door size?

36" would be smart for the exact reason you mentioned. If you go with a standard size door, you will not have to special order and wait extra time for the door to come in. The soundproofing company sells automatic door stop for a 36" door.
But also as you mentioned a smaller door would improve sound isolation.

....I wonder if you wanted to use an adjustable door stop, would that change the dimensions you would need the rough opening?
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post #122 of 1236 Old 02-28-2011, 01:30 PM
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....I wonder if you wanted to use an adjustable door stop, would that change the dimensions you would need the rough opening?

No. The auto-door bottom is attached to the face of the door, or completely recessed within the door in a full-mortise application.

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post #123 of 1236 Old 02-28-2011, 01:42 PM
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No. The auto-door bottom is attached to the face of the door, or completely recessed within the door in a full-mortise application.

I am referring to the adjustable door stop, which on your website says that it is a three piece set that seals the two sides and top of the door.
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post #124 of 1236 Old 02-28-2011, 04:07 PM
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I'm not convinced that the size of the door matters as far as sound isolation goes. Obviously the sealing around the door matters. The other thing it looks like matters, according to some quick reading, is the "surface mass" (mass per area). That's independent of size, though with the same density obviously a larger door will result in a heavier door. http://www.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca/eng/ibp/ir...anmission.html

I recently went to a theatre (designed for music performance) with a very acoustically absorptive hallway with a turn in it to enter the theatre. I bet that reduces the need for as expensive of a door. It would also act like double doors do for HVAC systems (or pressurized arenas) in that someone could enter or exit without unduly wrecking the acoustic isolation. Very clever...

I'd totally go with an exterior size door.
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post #125 of 1236 Old 02-28-2011, 04:26 PM - Thread Starter
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I am definitely leaning towards the 36" door. I think you are right aackthpt, a couple of inches is probably not detectable by the human ear (assuming both doors are of equal mass with the same seals).

I was prepared for the cost of the bottom seal and the solid core door, but looking at the other seals that Ted sells, are they really worth it? That is more than some solid core doors. Do they make a big difference?
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post #126 of 1236 Old 03-01-2011, 05:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NGiovas View Post

I am definitely leaning towards the 36" door. I think you are right aackthpt, a couple of inches is probably not detectable by the human ear (assuming both doors are of equal mass with the same seals).

I was prepared for the cost of the bottom seal and the solid core door, but looking at the other seals that Ted sells, are they really worth it? That is more than some solid core doors. Do they make a big difference?

I went with a Ceco 36" wide steel fire-rated heavy-duty welded accordian core door in a steel frame for a 2x6 wall. This conforms to the "more mass is better" theory. If you want to add mass to your door cheaply, glue a sheet of drywall to it. Be forewarned -- your hinges better be able to support the weight!

Part of your decision should be based on whether you have any swing clearance requirements. For instance, my back row of seats is 37" from the back door -- just enough room to swing open without tearing up the leather. If you have swing restrictions, you may need a narrower door. I don't like narrow entries, so that played a factor in my decision.
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post #127 of 1236 Old 03-01-2011, 07:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks Geordon. My plan is to put the door towards the front of the theater. This will give me plenty of room for it to swing open. I am going to do some layout with tape this weekend to confirm everything before finalizing the door location.
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post #128 of 1236 Old 03-02-2011, 06:10 PM - Thread Starter
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The snow isn't melting as fast as I would like. Not only do I still have 6"+ of snow in my yard, it has a nice smooth layer of ice on top of it. It looks like we won't be driving through the yard to unload the wood. Even if it melts with tomorrow's rain, it will be way to soft to drive through the yard. It would make a muddy mess. Oh well, I guess I will be dragging the 8' pieces (most of the wood) from the garage into the house and down into the basement. I will have to walk the rest around to the window a couple of pieces at a time.

My friend offered to pick up the wood for me tomorrow night. To save as much time as possible I went over tonight and picked it all out, put it on a cart and had them put it in "will call" so we can load it and go tomorrow.

I was surprised to see how much higher the wood prices were from just a couple of months ago. I paid $2.12 for each 2x4x96 December 27th. Today the same store wanted $2.36 each. Luckily, Lowes was at $2.15 and Home Depot offered to price match them. Not only that, the manager offered to beat the price by 10% . That made each board $1.94. I really lucked out. They cashier who rung it up kept reminding the manager that they weren't supposed to beat commodity prices, only match them. He finally reminded her that it was his decision not hers.
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post #129 of 1236 Old 03-05-2011, 07:45 PM - Thread Starter
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The forums seem pretty quiet this weekend. Hopefully lots of people working on their theater. Unfortunately, I have to work 12 hours tomorrow, but I was able to take Monday off to make up for it. I plan to spend the entire day framing. Hopefully we will get the rest of the walls framed.

All of the wood is down in the basement and everything is cleaned up so we can start right away. Hopefully I will have pictures of the framed theater on Monday night instead of some bare concrete walls .



My biggest challenge is going to be building the wall under the metal beam (the only shared wall in the theater). My plan is to build two walls with a 2 inch gap between them. The inner wall (theater side) will have isolation clips. The outer wall will be attached directly to the beam. I'm worried about attaching the clips to the beam. John at the soundproofing company sent me a photo showing the clips being bolted to a metal beam, but I tried to drill a test hole today and that metal is thick and hard. I would be there for a long time drilling just one hole. I think I am going to attach a 2x4 to the steel stud using a Ramset and then attach the clips to this 2x4. The top of the wall would be an inch below the 2x4.

The other issue I haven't resolved is the exact door location and size. After talking with Bryan Pape, I am either going to leave a wide opening that I can close in to finalize the door location and size, or I am going to build most of the wall based on the constraints I have with my bowling machine and put the rest of the wall up after determining the doors final location.
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post #130 of 1236 Old 03-07-2011, 06:36 PM - Thread Starter
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I finally have some real progress to report. I finished framing my theater today. I am glad I finally am moving forward again. The final interior dimensions on the theater (pre-drywall) are 18' 8" wide by 23' 3 1/4" long.

This is the entrance to the theater (from the outside):



Here a are a couple of photos from the interior of the theater. Rear left corner:



Door wall from inside theater:



Here is the screen wall:



I used IB3 clips (from the Sound Proofing Company) to isolate all of the theater walls. The biggest challenge was isolating the door wall which is under a steel beam. John from the Sound Proofing Company suggested drilling through the beam, but it is very thick, hard steel, so I decided to attach a plate to the bottom of the beam and then mount the clips to this plate:



I also made sure that none of the framing came in contact with the poured concrete foundation walls. For the door wall, which is shared with the rest of the basement, I decided to construct two 2x4 walls with a 2 inch gap between them for better sound isolation:



Since we completed the theater, we also worked towards framing the remainder of the basement. We were able frame the exterior of the bathroom as well as put in the remaining top and bottom plates on the last two walls. I figure we should have the last of the framing completed with about a 1/2 days worth of work.




Once I wrap up the remainder of the framing, I can begin my electrical work. In the mean time, I plan to start some of the electrical layout. Once the electric is designed, I will probably turn most of my focus to getting the theater ready for drywall.
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post #131 of 1236 Old 03-08-2011, 06:25 AM
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Nice tidy work. Great job. How did you attach the 2x4 nailer to the underside of that beam?

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post #132 of 1236 Old 03-08-2011, 06:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Nice tidy work. Great job. How did you attach the 2x4 nailer to the underside of that beam?
My friend has a Ramset that uses a larger bullet. It put a nail into the beam with no problems. I was very surprised considering how hard the steel is on those beams.
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post #133 of 1236 Old 03-08-2011, 06:32 AM
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Thanks for that info. If you ever have a chance to get the make and model of that Ramset I'd be interested. This is a common question, and this seems like the best answer. Maybe these can be rented.

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post #134 of 1236 Old 03-08-2011, 06:41 AM - Thread Starter
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I will get the model from him. I seem to remember him telling me it wasn't cheap like the ones at home depot. If I remember correctly, it was $300 - $400 dollars. I will also ask him if he knows if you can rent them.

I'm pretty sure the standard Ramset like the ones you find at Home Depot are 22 caliber. I know this one was larger. He told me that if you use the highest power 22 caliber charge, it will penetrate a steel beam enough to hold a partition wall in place. I have used the smaller ones on very hard concrete with great success, but I have never tried it on a steel beam.
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post #135 of 1236 Old 03-08-2011, 06:51 AM
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Thanks!

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post #136 of 1236 Old 03-08-2011, 06:52 AM - Thread Starter
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I just gave him a call and found out it is a Ramset Rocket, but he said there are models that cost a lot less that will use the same charges. It is a .27 caliber model. he suggested trying the yellow charges before moving to red charges (most powerful).

He also reiterated that depending on the hardness of the beam, the smaller .22 caliber Ramsets will sometimes work as well. You can get one of these at Home Depot for $20. The charges are pretty cheap as well (like $5 for 100). I have this model and really like it.
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post #137 of 1236 Old 03-08-2011, 06:59 AM
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That's great info. Thanks. I owe ya!

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post #138 of 1236 Old 03-08-2011, 07:18 AM
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When Ted White"owes you one" that is big time as more times than not we all owe him one. Great info

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post #139 of 1236 Old 03-08-2011, 11:19 AM
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When Ted White"owes you one" that is big time as more times than not we all owe him one. Great info

+1 on that for sure!


Looks like you're making good progress here!

The Esquire Theater Construction Thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1289590
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post #140 of 1236 Old 03-08-2011, 11:44 AM
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You guys...

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post #141 of 1236 Old 03-08-2011, 04:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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That's great info. Thanks. I owe ya!

I'm glad I could help out. Only 9,999,999 more times until I catch up with the number of times you have helped others . I have definitely taken notes from many of your posts throughout the forum.
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post #142 of 1236 Old 03-08-2011, 04:52 PM - Thread Starter
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As I wrap up the last of the framing in my basement, I am starting to think ahead to wiring (both low voltage and high voltage). I had a few questions to get my planning started.

  1. Is there a comprehensive list of wiring I should plan for - mostly within the theater (speakers, subs, projector outlet, etc.).
  2. Is there a good site to help with lighting design? For this one, I am thinking more for the non-theater basement areas.
  3. Does anyone have any good online sources for lighting and wiring? I'm familiar with the forum sponsors (like mono price, etc.). Just wanted to make sure I didn't miss anyone.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
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post #143 of 1236 Old 03-10-2011, 06:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Reading AirBenji's build thread also has me thinking about HVAC. I'm more worried about cooling than heating. We have talked about zoning each of the floors, but have never done anything about it. If we are going to do it, now would be the time.

The biggest issue is that we only have one main trunk that all ducts come out of, so we would be required to put valves in every duct. I guess this needs to go on the list of decisions that need to be made.
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post #144 of 1236 Old 03-13-2011, 05:35 PM - Thread Starter
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I made a small amount of progress this weekend. When we did the first half of the framing, we wanted to get one wall of the theater completed, but I didn't have any isolation clips yet. I decided we could put in some temporary blocks to support the wall and then remove them after installing the clips.

When we completed the rest of the walls in the theater, I had the clips, so the temporary blocking wasn't necessary. I finally got around to going back through and installing the clips and removing the temporary boards that supported the original wall.



I had hoped to work on the last of the framing, but the Paslode nailer I am borrowing is out of fuel. At that point I didn't feel like dragging out the compressor, hose and nail gun, so that piece is postponed. In all reality, I would rather finish up the framing when I have a second set of hands.

I had someone come over to look at my server rack and servers I am selling. The bad news is that his wife took one look at it and said "what are you going to do with THAT!!". He looked at me and said "I guess I won't be going home with a server". I'm not sure why he wasted my time even coming over if she didn't even know what he was buying.

With that said, the good news is that she loved my pinball machines and my air hockey table. I told them that I was planning to sell the air hockey table if they wanted it. Done deal - they decided they want it. Now I just need to find someone who wants a server rack and a couple of servers.
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post #145 of 1236 Old 03-15-2011, 06:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Shameless plug:

For those of you in the area (or even if you are not), we will be holding a Spring HEMI Meet Saturday May 14th. More information is available in the "local meets" forum:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...8#post20155658


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post #146 of 1236 Old 03-16-2011, 06:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NGiovas View Post

Reading AirBenji's build thread also has me thinking about HVAC. I'm more worried about cooling than heating. We have talked about zoning each of the floors, but have never done anything about it. If we are going to do it, now would be the time.

The biggest issue is that we only have one main trunk that all ducts come out of, so we would be required to put valves in every duct. I guess this needs to go on the list of decisions that need to be made.

Hey Nick - just catching this post now...I think there may be another way to accomplish what you're talking about here. I'm a 100% HVAC novice (obviously - I had to call somebody to install a few ducts!) but I think that instead of installing motorized dampers on every duct line, you can install a zoning system that will attach at/near the origin of the main trunk. You can then install a new trunk for the new zone and connect all the old lines to that trunk. The zoning system then acts much like big version of a motorized damper for a single duct, but will turn the main system on/off and allow you to heat/cool each zone independently.

I don't know if this is a cost effective solution or not, or whether you have space to run another trunk line, but it cuts down on the electronics substantially. In my mind, it also reduces the potential for problems with all of the moving parts that would exist with a bunch of motorized dampers.

I talked with the HVAC guys that have been at my house recently and they estimated that the parts to add a second zone would cost me in the ballpark of $2K. I know I saw a zoning system at smarthome somewhere for about $1,500, but I can't seem to track it down right now.

Anyway, you probably already know of this, but I thought I'd mention it just in case...

- Ben

The Esquire Theater Construction Thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1289590
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post #147 of 1236 Old 03-16-2011, 06:22 AM - Thread Starter
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AirBenji - Thanks!! I knew of these "trunk dampers", but hadn't really thought of a way to use one with my setup since all of my lines come off of the same trunk. Using your idea, I could put a damper on the existing trunk and then add a new trunk for just the theater. I would need to find out about balancing it so that there isn't too much pressure in the system.

Thanks again for the idea. I think it is worth exploring.
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post #148 of 1236 Old 03-16-2011, 07:11 AM
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Yes - that's one of the things I talked about with the HVAC contractors. It's definitely best if the zones are at least in the same ballpark size-wise. The upstairs zone in my house would have been something like 7 times the size of the HT, so that's one of the reasons I ended up not going with a separate zone. I could have zoned my whole basement separately, but the basement temperature is quite comfortable now, so I didn't see a reason to get into all of that.

The Esquire Theater Construction Thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1289590
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post #149 of 1236 Old 03-18-2011, 04:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Today was a successful build day. I was able to completed framing the last of the walls. I still have a couple of soffit decisions to make in the game area, but I don't need to make those decisions immediately.

I finished the back wall of the bathroom as well as framing out the closet for the ejection pump. The bathroom will likely be the last room completed, but I wanted all of the framing done now. It will probably end up being a tool storage area while the rest of the basement is finished.







I also finished framing up the bar area, the wiring closet and the soffit above the counter area behind the bar.











I previously had started some high level electrical planning. Now that the framing is done, I will need to finalize the electrical decisions. Outlets aren't a big deal because I know the exact requirements for my games as well as general purpose outlets. I do need to do some research regarding the lighting. I want to use a variety of lighting in the basement and dont' want to use strictly cans for the entire area.

Also, I have been planning to put a sub panel in the theater, but once that is installed I will have six slots remaining in the main service panel. These will need to service all lighting and other electrical for the entire basement. Some of the things I need to keep in mind while planning the basement electrical are:
  • 2 dedicated 20 amp circuits for pinball machines and games.
  • lighting and electrical for the pinball workshop
  • lighting for the storage area
  • lighting for the game and bar area
  • general electric outlets for the game and bar areas.
  • lighting and electric outlets for the bathroom.

I'm wondering if I should consider putting another sub panel in the pin workshop to supply the entire basement (besides the theater). That would require 2 slots for the breaker that feeds this panel, but would leave 4 slots for future expansion.
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post #150 of 1236 Old 03-20-2011, 06:34 PM - Thread Starter
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I started the planning for the electrical outlets and lighting in the non theater areas. I started by marking the outlet locations using some colored tape so that I could determine the proper number of outlets. This was very useful in the gaming area to ensure that I had the proper layout for the games. I also have determined the location of many of the can lights I will use in the general areas. I had some concerns with HVAC ducts and cold air returns being in the way, but I discovered that a 5" remodel can will easily fit beside the ducts without making contact. That opens up several new layout options.



I also began installing some of the electrical boxes for the gaming area. I am position them 12" above the floor. I will have dedicated 20 amp circuits for my games (6 games per circuit).



I still need to plan the outlet locations for the bar area and bathroom. Once that is complete, I also need to determine switch locations. My plan is to break up the different lighting areas into multiple switches so that I can control them with dimmers. This will allow me to do things like turn down (or off) the lighting over the pinball machines while people are playing to reduce glare. I may also want the lights to be slightly dimmer when playing games.

The other thing I began doing this weekend is planning for the bar area. I am starting to search for a keg cooler that will go below the bar to store my homebrew kegs. My plan is to be able to store 6 kegs (5 gallons each) in the cooler plus some bottles. The bar will be designed around this cooler so that I can have the taps coming out of the bar. I am looking for something like this:





They are quite pricey and all of the manufacturers say that they will not ship to homeowners, so it has been difficult getting much info. I have seen them on Craig's list before for $400 - $600, so that is probably the route I will end up going.
NGiovas is offline  
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