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post #1 of 32 Old 01-19-2011, 08:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi everyone.

I hope this is the right section for this. My theater is my living room and my projector hangs about 3-4ft from the ceiling (high ceiling). Can't mount it higher or lower due to the projector not having any sort of keystone adjustment.

The projector has 5 fans in it and sounds like a jet engine mounted to a freight train. I read some other threads on hushbox design and tried my hand at my own design. This design is somewhat "universal" in that when the bulbs (yes, bulbS...this projector has two) eventually go out, I'll just buy a new projector instead of replace the bulbs and I want the new one to work in the same hushbox.

Here's some sketchup drawings of the design I came up with:




The air will be pulled into the right channel and exit the left side of the box since the rear left side of the project is where it's exhaust is.


The air channels will be lined with a sound damping material. The fans are 120mm computer fans and will have a trim pot to adjust the speed of them. The overall dimensions of the box are pretty large but the projector itself isn't small to begin with.

Thanks in advance!
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post #2 of 32 Old 01-19-2011, 08:44 AM
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I'm not exactly up to par on hush box design, but it looks to me like the giant opening you have in the front for the lens negates the entire purpose of your airflow design. Also, noise will escape from the front instead of the nice path you gave it.

I would think exhaust fans would work better than intake fans since you're more concerned about removing hot air?

What type of projector is it? Unless you buy the exact same model, or at least from the same manufacturer, intake and exhaust are going to be completely different (maybe back to front air flow), which will also negate the current design.

My 2 cents.


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post #3 of 32 Old 01-19-2011, 08:47 AM
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The duct liner that comes to mind for lining the channels is 1 inch thick, if you line both sides how much area does that leave for air flow? The space around the projector looks tight and without knowing the exhaust locations it is hard to comment.

Your projector must REALLY be noisy, have you looked into potential modification with quieter fans and then just sticking it in a simpler box.?


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post #4 of 32 Old 01-19-2011, 09:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the input, guys!

The opening in the front will be sealed. Two layers of either glass or plexi-glass to form a window.

I can expand the projector's chamber so it's a bit larger. Can't go too much larger though because the box is already pretty big.

The projector is a BarcoGraphics 4000 and is hella noisy. I doubt quieter fans could be installed in it. It seriously has 5 fans. This projector was given to me for free so I might as well make use of it.

The damping material I was planning to use is about 1/4" to 1/2" thick (automotive carpet padding). Not as effective as the 1" material by any means, but that's why I opted for the bends and turns in the channels. The bends by themselves should offer some harmonic damping. Kind of like how a horn or transmission line subwoofer's folds cancel out 3rd order harmonics. Unless I'm wrong, of course.

The whole box will be sealed air tight except for where I want the air to flow, so, in my mind, it doesn't really matter where the fans are. With the fans "pushing" the hot air out, the air will only have one place to go anyway due to positive pressure created by the sealed box. I can easily move the fans to the exhaust side though in the design if I'm wrong here too.

Far as the different models of projectors going in this box, I'm not too worried. The projector is large, which means any model of projector I buy after this one goes will be smaller (most likely significantly smaller) and will also generate less heat (this one has 5 fans for a reason). I figure that the air flow in this box should be enough to move the heat out no matter where the exhaust is located on the replacement projector...again...unless I'm wrong.

Thanks again for taking the time, gentlemen.
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post #5 of 32 Old 01-19-2011, 09:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok, I moved the fans to the exhaust side and modified the intake side for more sound blocking:



I also included dimensions in this drawing so y'all can see the outer size of it.
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post #6 of 32 Old 01-19-2011, 10:53 AM
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I would the think the cross section of the channels less the lining needs to exceed the cross section area of the fans so that the fans don't have too much resistance. Just eyeballing, it looks close.


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post #7 of 32 Old 01-19-2011, 12:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Hmm...good point.

Gonna check that out in the model.

Thanks!
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post #8 of 32 Old 01-19-2011, 02:40 PM
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Quote:


Two layers of either glass or plexi-glass to form a window.

Well that could screw the pooch.
The glass cannot be perpendicular to the lens. You do not want any sort of plastic and you need a speciality glass such as ...
http://www.edmundoptics.com/onlineca...w=21&PageNum=2

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post #9 of 32 Old 01-19-2011, 03:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Erskine View Post
Well that could screw the pooch.
The glass cannot be perpendicular to the lens. You do not want any sort of plastic and you need a speciality glass such as ...
http://www.edmundoptics.com/onlineca...w=21&PageNum=2
Yikes! I'm glad you chimed in!

What if the window was at an angle to the lens?

I'm guessing this is why most of the designs I see use the "port hole" approach.
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post #10 of 32 Old 01-19-2011, 04:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok, taking into account the need for larger channels and that glass cannot be parallel to the lens, here's V3.0:

The channel openings are now on the top instead of the sides:


This view shows the larger channels:


This view shows the glass frame being angled to the lens:


Also got the fans today. They are 12V computer fans and they move a TON of air! Way more than the projector moves. So I decided to run them off of 5V instead of 12V and that seems to be the perfect speed. They still move tons of air, but they are much quieter.

Thank y'all for the help so far! It's much easier to fix design flaws in Sketchup than after the sawdust has flown.
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post #11 of 32 Old 01-19-2011, 07:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok, just did an experiment. While the projector was on, I held a piece of glass (from a picture frame) in front of the lens. I held it both parallel and at an angle. I could tell a slight difference in picture but it only looked a slightly darker from when the glass is not in front of it. There was no noticeable difference between the glass being held parallel and at an angle to the picture. The glass does reflect quite a bit of light from the lens so an angle would be best.

Unless there's something I'm missing (like damage to the projector or something), it seems plain glass will work ok. Not perfect, but well enough.
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post #12 of 32 Old 01-19-2011, 07:34 PM
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Did you notice any spots on the image that were not focusing the same as others?

Current HT: HTPC-->Epson 5010 projector-->135" screen, BFM TLAHs x7 & THT

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post #13 of 32 Old 01-20-2011, 03:16 AM
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I have zero knowledge on the topic, but I thought I read about a 7 degree offset somewhere.....I would have thought the angle of the glass would be impacted by the type of projector and its mounting height relative to the screen? all sorts of optical angles/defractions at play....

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post #14 of 32 Old 01-20-2011, 04:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndreasMergner View Post

Did you notice any spots on the image that were not focusing the same as others?

Nope. The image looked just as sharp and clear, just a little bit darker.

I'm going to try the test again with different images on the screen to be sure. Last night's test was just a quickie.
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post #15 of 32 Old 01-20-2011, 05:05 AM
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Elill - 7 to 15 degrees is what is used along with an AR coated optical glass. OTOH, if you have a cheap projector with cheap plastic lenses ... how much worse can it get?

The issue is not damage to the projector. It is:
1. Light reflection off the glass surface back into the projector lens reducing contrast;
2. Loss of image sharpness, uneven focus, color banding or rainbowing as a result of poor optics ... or, degrading the quality of the lens the manufacturer went to a lot of trouble to avoid.

Shane - you asked for help. I provided it. The glass in question is likely around $40. If you want to debate the people who take their time to assist, you're not going to get too far. Your cabinet is over engineered in some respects and heading for disaster in other respects. Have fun.

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post #16 of 32 Old 01-20-2011, 05:29 AM
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Dennis, where can one get that glass? I made a hush box too, but the glass I used detracted enough from the PQ to make me want to live with the bit of fan noise I have.

Thanks much!

Current HT: HTPC-->Epson 5010 projector-->135" screen, BFM TLAHs x7 & THT

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post #17 of 32 Old 01-20-2011, 05:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Erskine View Post

Elill - 7 to 15 degrees is what is used along with an AR coated optical glass. OTOH, if you have a cheap projector with cheap plastic lenses ... how much worse can it get?

The issue is not damage to the projector. It is:
1. Light reflection off the glass surface back into the projector lens reducing contrast;
2. Loss of image sharpness, uneven focus, color banding or rainbowing as a result of poor optics ... or, degrading the quality of the lens the manufacturer went to a lot of trouble to avoid.

Shane - you asked for help. I provided it. The glass in question is likely around $40. If you want to debate the people who take their time to assist, you're not going to get too far. Your cabinet is over engineered in some respects and heading for disaster in other respects. Have fun.

My apologies to give off the impression that I'm arguing. I'm not at all and I'm definitely listening and thinking about everyone's suggestions. $40 is not as bad as I thought it would be. I was picturing it to be much more expensive which was why I tried the experiment to see if regular glass would really be "that bad."

You say my design is over engineered and flawed, please, give me your suggestions! This is definitely a budget centered project but perhaps there are other ways of doing things that won't break the budget.

Again, I'm sorry that I gave the impressions that I'm not listening or taking into account all that members have said because I most certainly am!
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post #18 of 32 Old 01-20-2011, 07:02 AM
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You might want to consider orienting the fans to the course of your channel as opposed to being parallel with the walls. Have you given any thought to filtration? The more air you move the more dust you move.
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post #19 of 32 Old 01-20-2011, 07:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndreasMergner View Post

Dennis, where can one get that glass?

You mean the type of glass he provided a link to?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Erskine View Post

Well that could screw the pooch.
The glass cannot be perpendicular to the lens. You do not want any sort of plastic and you need a speciality glass such as ...
http://www.edmundoptics.com/onlineca...w=21&PageNum=2


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post #20 of 32 Old 01-20-2011, 07:25 AM
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Andreas - You can get the glass directly from Edmunds Optics

http://www.edmundoptics.com/onlineca...w=21&PageNum=2

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post #21 of 32 Old 01-20-2011, 07:28 AM
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I'd like to be a fly on the wall at Edmunds today. 200 people click the link and order the glass ... they'll wonder what hit 'em.

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post #22 of 32 Old 01-20-2011, 07:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Erskine View Post

I'd like to be a fly on the wall at Edmunds today. 200 people click the link and order the glass ... they'll wonder what hit 'em.

LOL. That's funny. Since they are scientists, they will likely launch a study to determine what happened. Think they will ever find this recommendation?

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post #23 of 32 Old 01-20-2011, 07:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cybergold View Post

You might want to consider orienting the fans to the course of your channel as opposed to being parallel with the walls. Have you given any thought to filtration? The more air you move the more dust you move.

How would you orient the fans to the course of the channel? I think I'm understanding what you're sying here, but am trying to picture it in my brain. The way the fans are now, the exhaust from the projector blows right at the fans. I am totally open to moving them though if they're not in a good position.

Filtration is a very good point. My house is not necessarily all that dusty but no dust at all is best. What would you recommend for filtration?

Thank you for taking the time and for your suggestions.

Also, just to help clarify, the intake on this projector is on the bottom (squirl cage fan) of the unit in the front corner where the lens is (the mockup of the projector in the Sketchup is pretty accurate). The exhaust is on the left side of the projector towards the back (where the hushbox fans are currently). Hope that helps. Should have stated that way earlier.

Also, I'm beginning to see where creating a "universal" hushbox is a bad idea. I can at least build this one without glue so I can at least take it apart and reuse the wood for the next hushbox.
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post #24 of 32 Old 01-20-2011, 07:52 AM
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Scientists ... they'll never find this place.

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post #25 of 32 Old 01-20-2011, 07:59 AM
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Thanks Dennis! This stuff will likely work better than the wavy 100 y/o glass I was originally using.

Current HT: HTPC-->Epson 5010 projector-->135" screen, BFM TLAHs x7 & THT

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post #26 of 32 Old 01-20-2011, 03:56 PM
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I built a hush box for a crt projector and used 6 mm antireflective glass from American Computer Optics.

www dot portwindowglass dot com

The price was reasonable and it worked great. I experimented with the angle of the glass and couldn't see any difference. I installed it parallel to the lense face and to me there is no perceptible degradation in the picture.

I would definitely experiment with a temperature probe to be sure you have enough air flow though.

I made mine out of half inch mdf with a pretty elaborate air circulation system. It made a huge improvement in the room in both noise and heat.
Chris
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post #27 of 32 Old 01-20-2011, 06:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TXLC View Post

I built a hush box for a crt projector and used 6 mm antireflective glass from American Computer Optics.

www dot portwindowglass dot com

The price was reasonable and it worked great. I experimented with the angle of the glass and couldn't see any difference. I installed it parallel to the lense face and to me there is no perceptible degradation in the picture.

I would definitely experiment with a temperature probe to be sure you have enough air flow though.

I made mine out of half inch mdf with a pretty elaborate air circulation system. It made a huge improvement in the room in both noise and heat.
Chris

Thank you for your insight and for the information about the glass! Describe the elaborate circulation system if you can, please.

Temperature probe is a great idea. I have one that came with my multi-meter.
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post #28 of 32 Old 01-20-2011, 06:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok, upon the recommendations of many here, I have simplified the box a bunch. Widening the channels to accept more air flow and thicker damping material. With this design, the damping material can be thicker and be the densest most sound absorbing material I can find. Also, the fans are now on the exterior (top) of the box and the window on the front (again, from recommendations) has been made much much smaller.

Putting the fans on the outside of the box was a small concern for me, but I ran all 3 at the same time at 1/2 speed (5V instead of 12V) and they are very quiet at that speed. Not to mention, the fans will be aimed at the ceiling and the box will be suspended about 7ft off the ground.



Here's a view inside to see the simplified and expanded channels:


There will have to be a 2nd smaller window on the front so the remote will work with the IR pickup on the front of the projector. I could use one of those IR extender dealies, but, again, money.

I will use an anti-reflective glass.

What do y'all think?
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post #29 of 32 Old 01-22-2011, 08:58 AM - Thread Starter
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No takers?

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post #30 of 32 Old 01-22-2011, 07:41 PM
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I'd put the fans on the inside wall, or you're losing most of the point of the box. If they're on the inside, you can also run them at any rpm you please, and noise won't matter. You could potentially turn them up to the point where you'd actually have improved cooling over just the projector case, and no noise since they're inside.

I'd use an IR extender. It's two wires, and I'd crack open the projector to just hard wire it in. Or, just take out the receiver that's there (assuming it's loose and not on the board), and extend the wiring to run it out of the case.

Why is one side different than the other? You're over designing and working this. Just do one U on each side (like shown on the left) instead of all the little baffles, and be done.
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