DIY construction methods of hang-able acoustic panels & moveable Corner traps (not fixed frames) - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 160 Old 02-03-2011, 06:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Background:
I've been thinking to make a separate thread on the DIY construction methods of hang-able acoustic panels, that can be located specifically only where needed. 

Also moveable as your speaker type/location changes, your treatment needs may change.

Currently none exist that give a really good start-finish, I've searched AVS forum.


Just these for Fabric frames, which are integrated as part of the wall itself, not hanging and specific locatable.
(these are great threads btw for those whole wall coverage methods)

Fabric Frames - GPowers Thread , Another Fabric Frame Thread - Canvas Stretcher Bars

 

In my viewpoint, the Acoustical Treatments Master Thread is more for the theory, science, and practical application for acoustics of your particular room situation/issue, not the DIY construction methods, that will clutter it too much.

This thread purpose is NOT what your rooms acoustic needs are, rather once you study, plan, and develop your rooms acoustic needs, how to go about building it yourself.

[edit] since making this thread some specific acoustic issues have been discussed and addressed, however there are other more suitable threads for the theory, think of this as the application thread.

So, here it is, a dedicated thread for DIY construction methods of hang-able acoustic panels, to start I plan on sharing what I've done:
-DIY side wall absorption panels construction and hanging, http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=19947559#post19947559


-DIY ceiling absorption panels panels construction and hanging
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=19987283#post19987283 and http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=20074007#post20074007

 

 

-Here is removable lower tri-corner superchunk bass trap made with 1/2-13 thd rod and OC705, from post #40 http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=19993984#post19993984
and Upper tri-corner bass traps (since I made these it's been proven via gas flow resistivity its best for deep traps like these to use pink fluffy)
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=20085872#post20085872

..

 

Eric helped with his pink fluffy version of my movable corner bass traps

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1312693/diy-construction-methods-of-hang-able-acoustic-panels-not-fixed-frames/120#post_22131618

.

 

Discussion related to corner bass traps; gas flow resistivity, why cover them to reflect mid-high's, etc


others in this thread:
-smokarz built his own side wall 2' x 4' panels, post #36 here http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=19993492#post19993492

 

-localhost127 built his own side wall 4" thick 2' x 4' panels with exposed sides for more absorption , post # 86 here http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=20271296#post20271296

 


There are already "fixed" bass trap threads, here are links to them.

AVS site:

Show us your custom made corner bass traps (pics)
(btw, as of 2/5/0-11 pepar updated his pict links, I need chinaclipper and pred02 to do same )
Other site:
Gearslutz.com, here is a link to their "How I built my bass (broadband) traps..." sticky, over 31 pages of info!
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/bass-traps-acoustic-panels-foam-etc/87464-how-i-built-my-bass-traps.html

I added my own twist to building corner superchunk with "green" material, some might like a different approach.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=20588838#post20588838
..
 

 

I'd like others who make DIY hang-able acoustic panels, whether absorption, diffusion, reflection, etc. to also feel free to add your construction techniques/methods there.
>>We need to learn from you!

[edit Feb 2, 2011]
placeholder for those already done DIY hang-able acoustic panels-pm me your details and I'll post link here

Side note:
I have this general suggestion for those wanting to learn about acoustics:

A) read this Acoustics/Treatment Reference Guide , via gearslutz, its a easy read in layman terms, starts you off with basics and good foundation with practical discussion. Studio acoustics and Home Theater acoustics.
From that, simple/straight forward advice via Jens Eklund:

Quote:


1. Learn how to make measurements: REW - Room EQ Wizard Home Page
Don’t do anything without measurements.

2. Define your MLP (Master listening position). Confirm with measurements.

3. Identify and treat your modal and SBIR - Speaker Boundary Interference Response related issues and educate yourself about different bass-absorbing techniques.
Other info: SBIR by Bryan Pape

4. Treat areas that otherwise creates early reflections.

5. If the room is big enough, add diffusers

Always base your decisions regarding different treatment, on measurements. Avoid thin porous only absorbers (including wall to wall –carpet, drapes etc.) unless a measurement indicates the need for it.

 

B) Knowing that for “best” audio/sound in a listening room, these parameters are tackled in prioritized order:
1. Speaker location, 2. Listener position, 3. Acoustic treatments, 4. Electronic correction.
Understand the small room acoustic model you will follow.
Looking at this link, everyone can see visually the various small room models, it's 7 pages from the book "Acoustics and Psychoacoustics Applied"
http://eetimes.com/design/audio-desi...n?pageNumber=0

C) If you have desire for more knowledge:
-read one of many books out there, a great 1st book is "Master Handbook of Acoustics" by F. Alton Everest, a perfect follow-up book is "Sound Reproduction: The Acoustics and Psychoacoustics of Loudspeakers and Rooms" by Floyd Toole.

-shameless plug for Ethan Winers book also, "The Audio Expert".

.. ..

 

-study Ethan Winers site, http://www.ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html
-Become familiar with the different small room acoustic models for home listening spaces
-This is also a 101 read on Room Acoustics, http://www.crutchfield.com/learn/learningcenter/home/speakers_roomacoustics.html
-SAE Home Acoustics info site has many definitions and explanations http://www.sae.edu/reference_material/audio/pages/fullindex.htm
-There are many other sites on the web, like
........One of the first ones, StudioTips small room acoustics forum http://forum.studiotips.com/index.php,
........Acoustical measurements defined Rives audio http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue12/rives2.htm,
........RPG Acoustics Library papers http://www.rpginc.com/news/library.htm, etc.
-Be careful of info overload all at once

D) Measurement info/threads:

 

-online downloadable file with the Sound System Engineering chapter 6 on measurements http://www.focalpress.com/uploadedFiles/Books/Book_Media/Audio/9780240808307.pdf

-Get the hardware side of REW down quickly, this thread by member omegaslast dummy's guide on setting up REW and his blog http://polaraudio.blogspot.com/2012/01/calibration.html easy 101 read with pictures to walk you thru the mechanical of set-up and taking measurements

-Highly recommend Nyal Mellor's site, http://www.acousticfrontiers.com/Aco...surements.html , and a very detailed/helpful white paper http://blog.acousticfrontiers.com/st...ist.%20Rms.pdf
-Room Measurement & Treatment by "fotto" (Floyd)

- Envelope Time Curve - ETC - Impulse gearslutz thread
-Using energy time curve for acoustic analysis: by "mtbdudex" (Mike R)

-Why just using 1" thick porous absorber treatment is "wrong" http://www.avsforum.com/t/1369498/early-reflection-panel-thickness

-http://www.avsforum.com/t/1421599/etc-isd-gap-question  ETC - ISD gap by
-Basic acoustic measurement primer v2.1 (via gearslutz "DanDan")
-http://www.realtraps.com/art_measuring.htm

-http://www.avsforum.com/t/1316623/diy-custom-printed-movie-poster-acoustic-panels-cheap/60#post_20147783 DIY Custom-Printed Movie Poster Acoustic Panels

-first reflection software: http://www.avsforum.com/t/822273/free-software-to-help-determine-your-first-reflection-points/240#post_22619555

-a while back I downloaded this Measurement/calibration sequence from Dennis Erskine.

RoomMeasurementSet-up.zip 4.990234375k . file  

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post #2 of 160 Old 02-03-2011, 06:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Goals:
-Build a simple yet sturdy frame to hold 2' x 4' 2" thick fiberglass for absorption panels

-Keep frame fastening simple as possible, ie screws instead of dovetails/etc. Many ways to build a box.

-simple hanging method employing needed space to have 2" gap between side wall and fiberglass
(I desired more low freq absorption than just first order absorption, else direct mtg to wall would suffice for that, ask those Q pro/con in Master Acoustics thread.)

1st prototype Mock-up 2' x 4' panel w/o cloth cover.
This was quick and dirty, I used scrap 1 x 4, and routered a 2" wide 1/4" deep channel down the center to hold the fiberglass.
1" x 4" pine frame will be stained, just OC703 itself will be wrapped.
There will be a 1/2" or 3/4" gap @ back of fiberglass to frame edge on front side, and 1" or 3/4"gap @ backside.


Cutting speaker cloth and wrapping OC703


Frontside and backside.


Yes, for the frame enclosed panels I plan not to use spray adhesive, just pinned.
At some point in future I'd like to spend a few $'s and have a printed pattern for the panels, this makes that upgrade option easier.

Ok, so the trial came out ok, but i learned a few things:

1) make and use jigs for repeatability
2) I made the 2" wide router channel 1/2" from the front edge, and 1" from the back edge, which was too close for screw to bite into good, so changed that to 3/4" both sides

Next post shows how I made (6) frames and then hung them
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post #3 of 160 Old 02-03-2011, 07:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Router set-up, since I did not have a table saw router extension (about $300), I made my own as shown.
>>Caution, exposed moving parts here, use with care.
I used a MILESCRAFT TurnLock 3-in-1 Router Guide Kit Model #1223, flipped upside down and clamped a board parallel to it for straight feed.
I used a 1" bit bought from HD for about $25.
Set the router @ 3/4" in from edge, a "fat" 5/16 deep, make 2 passes.


Material list for each 2' x 4' panel:
-(2) 1" x 4" x 6' pine boards for main frame boards
-(2) 1" x 4" x 23 1/4 for top/bottom "z" channel mounting board
-box 1 5/8" coarse drywall screws

Each 1" x 4" 6' pine board is cut 23 1/4" for top/bottom, the remaining piece becomes a side piece.

Edge boards are complete routered with 2" channel as shown.


Side pieces are routered as shown with the 1" bit (again make 2 passes) within 5/16 of the edge.


Use a secondary router with small bit to make the corners tighter as shown


Here is the drill jig I made for quick repeatability of the side board screw holes:


Using it to drill holes into the side boards
>>Having these true and square will ensure when using them to guide the 1 5/8 drywall screws into the top piece you won't have any problems.


I wanted the drywall screws to sit flush, used larger bit and carefully took away small bite of material as shown

(a counterboar bit is perferable method as "erkq" pointed out. In a pinch I take the drill that is slightly bigger than the screw head, do a manual mini-counterboar slowly, then put the drill in reverse and give full power with pressure.
The angled face of the drill going backward will remove all burrs/etc and make a fine seating area for the screw.)


Corner clamps to hold square while screwing in.
Careful, set torque to NOT go all the way in, do final tightening by hand or wood may split


I forgot to take a picture of the (2) "Z"channel braces, since they are 3/4" thick they fit flush inside the frame.
I located them 12" and 36" down from top, each had (2) drywall screws each side to keep from twisting when hanging onto the "Z" channel.
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post #4 of 160 Old 02-03-2011, 07:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Wrapping fiberglass 101, it's itchy be careful!

Cut to size, my speaker grille fabric came from Joanns, 60" wide, I bought 15 yards, $8/yard with coupon normal $9.99/yard.


wrap a side and pin with 1 3/4" pins, angles to stay in from tension.


Complete the wrap, it's my first time, got decent at wrapping and pinning.
Went real quick w/o mess.


Frontside mounted.............Backside mounted (after stained the frame)
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post #5 of 160 Old 02-03-2011, 07:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Hanging 101 for DIY framed 2' x 4' acoustic panels:

I used alum "z" from ats acoustics, http://www.atsacoustics.com/item--ac...are--IK12.html


They were set 3" in from each frame edge to have invisible look and the frame sorta just float there.

Note:
Wall to frame spacer/holders were pre-made, pre-drilled (each then acts as its own drill jig for holes into the wall), and painted wall color prior.
Mine were 19" wide and 3 1/2 tall, and 1 1/2 inches thick, basically scrap stuff I had lying around.

Measure twice, use blue tape for visual markers, locate top holder, mine was a 1 1/2" thick piece so the panel would have 2" air gap.
Hold with hand, drill into drywall with 3" deck screw, mini-level assures level, Locate bottom holder, drill into drywall with 3" deck screw.



Remove, use drilled holes to locate the 50lb plastic dywall anchors------Re-attach top/bottom holders, using 3" deck screw.


If measurements done correctly slight tweaks to get level----


this shows 2" air gap



That's all for tonight, later I'll post my acoustic cloud DIY making/hanging method....

I should say:
-the cloth wrapped fiberglass is nicely held rigid in, no worries about it ever coming out, even due to my kids possible "abuse".
That's why I made channels instead of just "boxing it in"....I was un-sure about the robustness of just that way.
-a 3 point mtg, 2 top and 1 bottom, is very secure and quite easy to locate and level, don't be concerned so much.
-the WAF is extremely high on these, she likes them!
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post #6 of 160 Old 02-03-2011, 09:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbdudex View Post

I wanted the drywall screws to sit flush, used larger bit and carefully took away small bite of material as shown

Nice job, detailed presentation. Thanks! But this struck me... just a little thing, though... why not just use a counter-sink?
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post #7 of 160 Old 02-04-2011, 07:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erkq View Post

Nice job, detailed presentation. Thanks! But this struck me... just a little thing, though... why not just use a counter-sink?

I agree - and edited the post above, the right tool for the job approach, honestly I don't have any countersink bits, just never bought them.
In a pinch I take the drill that is slightly bigger than the screw head, do a manual mini-counterboar slowly, then put the drill in reverse and give full power with pressure.
The angled face of the drill going backward will remove all burrs/etc and make a fine seating area for the screw.
My 75 year old dad has countersink bits and I've used them countless times growing up in the 70's, since he does not do DIY anymore I'll get them as "hand-down-to son" next time I visit.
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post #8 of 160 Old 02-04-2011, 07:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbdudex View Post

1st prototype Mock-up 2' x 4' panel w/o cloth cover.

Leave it to a professional engineer to make a prototype first.

Anyway, good job on the pictorials, more pictures of DIY is always a good thing.

For my on walls, I made the traditional frame for the 703 out of wood, then used one each of these guys:



-Suntan
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post #9 of 160 Old 02-04-2011, 07:32 AM
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I would worry about vibration issues with a conventional picture hanger. It is designed to hold the top of the frame 1/4" away from the wall, so it would have most of the frame hanging free.

I'd consider a french cleat top and bottom. Another thought is what I do for poster frames. I string a triangle of picture wire inside the frame. The constuction of the frames means the wire is held about 3/8" in from the back surface. When I hang the frame, the weight will pull the wire taught and this in turn pulls the frame tight against the wall.
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post #10 of 160 Old 02-04-2011, 08:13 AM
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great work mtbdudex, thanks!



Quote:
Originally Posted by jayn_j View Post

....I'd consider a french cleat top and bottom. Another thought is what I do for poster frames. I string a triangle of picture wire inside the frame. The constuction of the frames means the wire is held about 3/8" in from the back surface. When I hang the frame, the weight will pull the wire taught and this in turn pulls the frame tight against the wall.

would you provide a bit for details for this method? sounds interesting...
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post #11 of 160 Old 02-04-2011, 08:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suntan View Post

Leave it to a professional engineer to make a prototype first.

Anyway, good job on the pictorials, more pictures of DIY is always a good thing.

For my on walls, I made the traditional frame for the 703 out of wood, then used one each of these guys:

-Suntan

How'd they work for you? Any rattles like jayn_j mentioned?
Prior to deciding I was going to have the 2" air gap, I was going to do something similiar, use these on wall with screws on the frame back - screw would be wedged in the "v" slot was my thinking, then felt at (4) corners to induce some tension into the system for rattle free.
Not sure how that would have turned out, since I did not "prototype it"
Now, I can see accuracy for leveling would be much harder with these than "z" clips.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jayn_j View Post

I would worry about vibration issues with a conventional picture hanger. It is designed to hold the top of the frame 1/4" away from the wall, so it would have most of the frame hanging free.

I'd consider a french cleat top and bottom. Another thought is what I do for poster frames. I string a triangle of picture wire inside the frame. The constuction of the frames means the wire is held about 3/8" in from the back surface. When I hang the frame, the weight will pull the wire taught and this in turn pulls the frame tight against the wall.

I was 90% going to do the DIY French Cleat method - my DIY screen uses them, but was worried about rattles and more so the need for more accuracy for level adjustment.
The "z" clips are really quite forgiving for alignment, about 1" of bearing surface up/down and side/side, that makes leveling not an issue.
Plus, they securly grab each other in a force/spring tension clamp, pretty slick guys at very reasonable cost.
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post #12 of 160 Old 02-04-2011, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbdudex View Post

How'd they work for you? Any rattles like jayn_j mentioned?
Prior to deciding I was going to have the 2" air gap, I was going to do something similiar, use these on wall with screws on the frame back - screw would be wedged in the "v" slot was my thinking, then felt at (4) corners to induce some tension into the system for rattle free.
Not sure how that would have turned out, since I did not "prototype it"
Now, I can see accuracy for leveling would be much harder with these than "z" clips.

Works fine. My panels are about 2.5" total depth (with 2 703 recessed in about a quarter inch. But they would work the same even at 4 out (you just need to bring a surface back to the wall to hang it at the top and one at the bottom to stabilize it.)

As I completely wrapped the frames with the fabric, the fabric buffers between the walls and keeps things from rattling. If a person were to do bare frames like yours, they may want to put one of these at each corner.



As for centering. If you measure and put the cleat in the center, you should be good to go. Once again, the resistance of the fabric (or the rubber bumpers) against the wall allows you to trim the panels into plumb and they will stay there. Perhaps a little more attachment would be prudent if you have panels in high traffic areas. But mine are most up front and away from traffic (I growl at people if they think about stepping up on the stage )

You can get a view of mine here:



As for the suggestion of double French cleats by someone Talk about overkill. I'm not filling these things with shot, just insulation.

-Suntan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suntan View Post

Works fine. My panels are about 2.5" total depth (with 2” 703 recessed in about a quarter inch. But they would work the same even at 4” out (you just need to bring a surface back to the wall to “hang it” at the top and one at the bottom to stabilize it.)


hi, could you expand on this a bit further? i am looking for details....

sorry, i am not very technical when it comes to diy stuff...

i am making the same type of panels that you have......2" 703, 1"x3" pine (2.5" actual depth). covered the whole thing with fabric.
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post #14 of 160 Old 02-04-2011, 11:50 AM
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When I said double french cleats, I meant one on the top and one on the bottom. The bottom one is not for weight. It traps the bottom and keeps it tight against the wall.

Smokarz, I don't have access to a drawing program here. I'll try to take a picture tonight. Basically, I created the frame and placed three eyelets recessed 3/8 - 1/2 inch in from the back edge. Two eyelets are 1/3 of the way down on each side. One is in the center of the bottom. Then string picture wire to complete the triangle. Pull until it is semi-taught, but allow 1/2 inch or so of play when pulling on the top. I mounted two heavy picture hanging hooks on the wall.

To mount, center the frame over one of the hooks, reach behind and snap it in place. Pull the frame horizontally so the hooked side is toward its closest edge. Reach behind and snap the other edge in place. Center the frame on the hooks so it hangs level.

The tension of the wire will pull the frame back tight into the wall. I use something similar to Suntan's dots, except they are flat and about 1/8 thick. Use 6 of them for a 27x41 frame.
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post #15 of 160 Old 02-04-2011, 12:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jayn_j View Post

When I said double french cleats, I meant one on the top and one on the bottom. The bottom one is not for weight. It traps the bottom and keeps it tight against the wall.

Yeah, I know.

Even still, just one French cleat is total overkill for these things. They aren't that heavy.

If you're worried about them rattling, or being bumped off the wall by passersby, there are better methods of securing them than just having them rest on French cleats.

-Suntan
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post #16 of 160 Old 02-05-2011, 10:06 AM
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anyone with more methods for hanging panels, please share. thanks
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post #17 of 160 Old 02-10-2011, 04:55 AM - Thread Starter
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While driving in a small industrial park this past weekend in Brighton I saw this print shop, stopped in and asked them about printing acoustic panels.

We talked for about 10 minutes, they can do what is needed and gave me (2) samples. The material is white then they print the image you have.
Just ballpark cost was $100-120 for a 54" x 56" printed panel, the roll is 54" wide so actually they are flexible to the other dimension.
There is a "fixed" cost for their time/set-up, then printing more than one may have some overall lower cost.
I gave both samples the "breathe" test, and both were flowable, which is needed for mid-hi freq.
What I'll do further before ordering some is get an already printed piece from them on both materials and take some measurements.
The blocky looking one was slightly less flowable.
Since I have speaker cloth, that will be my baseline.
(tests are to my ability @ home and inside, if summer I'd do outside for more accurate, since I work for auto OE and we have a full vehicle size NVH lab, I might be able to do a "g-job" during a lunch session for accurate tests)

I scanned the info, hard to see the 2 types of cloth weave in the scan.


Since another hobby of mine is Astrophotography, Top 10 in 2010 to shoot (Astronomy, non telescope) , I'll probably take some better pictures of the Milky way, Andromeda galaxy, etc, and use those for the prints.
(I'm getting a decent tracking mount/scope shortly)
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post #18 of 160 Old 02-10-2011, 05:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbdudex View Post

While driving in a small industrial park this past weekend in Brighton I saw this print shop, stopped in and asked them about printing acoustic panels...

Just in case you were not aware, you can have panels made with your choice of print.

Here is one, but there are a number of other places that will do it too.

http://www.gikacoustics.com/gik_artpanel.html

Kinda takes the DIY out of it, but the option is there.

-Suntan
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post #19 of 160 Old 02-10-2011, 07:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by smokarz View Post

anyone with more methods for hanging panels, please share. thanks

I'd also like to add some of you with completed Home Theaters may have your DIY hanging panels methods buried in your HT build thread, PM me that build/thread/post and I'll put a link in this thread top post to yours with "credit" to you.
fwiw, I'll be making some non-framed panels for my front wall in near future.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suntan View Post

Just in case you were not aware, you can have panels made with your choice of print.

Here is one, but there are a number of other places that will do it too.
http://www.gikacoustics.com/gik_artpanel.html
Kinda takes the DIY out of it, but the option is there.
-Suntan

Those are sweet looking panels, and considering the time I've put into mine their prices are very reasonable for those not into DIY, as are some of the other sites (RealTraps, etc).

What I like about doing it with this small company is they are local - helping Michigan economy, I can have face-face time, etc.
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post #20 of 160 Old 02-10-2011, 07:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Suntan View Post
Leave it to a professional engineer to make a prototype first.

Anyway, good job on the pictorials, more pictures of DIY is always a good thing.

For my on walls, I made the traditional frame for the 703 out of wood, then used one each of these guys:



-Suntan

i went to home depot, picked up 12 of these for my frames.
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post #21 of 160 Old 02-10-2011, 07:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbdudex View Post
I'd also like to add some of you with completed Home Theaters may have your DIY hanging panels methods buried in your HT build thread, PM me that build/thread/post and I'll put a link in this thread top post to yours with "credit" to you.
fwiw, I'll be making some non-framed panels for my front wall in near future.

.......

i do not have an HT build thread, just didn't have time...my HT room was built in roughly 2 weeks....

i will try to take some photos of the panels and post them here.....
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post #22 of 160 Old 02-10-2011, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by mtbdudex View Post
While driving in a small industrial park this past weekend in Brighton I saw this print shop, stopped in and asked them about printing acoustic panels.

We talked for about 10 minutes, they can do what is needed and gave me (2) samples. The material is white then they print the image you have.
Just ballpark cost was $100-120 for a 54" x 56" printed panel, the roll is 54" wide so actually they are flexible to the other dimension.
There is a "fixed" cost for their time/set-up, then printing more than one may have some overall lower cost.
I gave both samples the "breathe" test, and both were flowable, which is needed for mid-hi freq.
What I'll do further before ordering some is get an already printed piece from them on both materials and take some measurements.
The blocky looking one was slightly less flowable.
Since I have speaker cloth, that will be my baseline.
(tests are to my ability @ home and inside, if summer I'd do outside for more accurate, since I work for auto OE and we have a full vehicle size NVH lab, I might be able to do a "g-job" during a lunch session for accurate tests)

I scanned the info, hard to see the 2 types of cloth weave in the scan.


Since another hobby of mine is Astrophotography, Top 10 in 2010 to shoot (Astronomy, non telescope) , I'll probably take some better pictures of the Milky way, Andromeda galaxy, etc, and use those for the prints.
(I'm getting a decent tracking mount/scope shortly)
Very cool.
I'm interested to see your results.

Mike
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suntan View Post

Just in case you were not aware, you can have panels made with your choice of print.

Here is one, but there are a number of other places that will do it too.

http://www.gikacoustics.com/gik_artpanel.html

Kinda takes the DIY out of it, but the option is there.

-Suntan

The printing process is called Dye-sublimation. Basically the print is dyed into the fabric instead of printed on the fabric. If you print on the fabric it would clog it which would take away from the absorption.

BTW one of my favorite painters in Germany gifted me a HUGE digital file of one of my favorite paintings from him. Truly was a honor as I think I am the only one to get it. It is DD Ramone in the picture playing in the late 70s (I believe) in Munich. Florian Süssmayr, the painter took the picture when he was a teen then painted it about 6 years ago.



I still need to take some pictures of it hanging in my condo.

Glenn Kuras
GIK Acoustics

http://www.gikacoustics.com

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Originally Posted by myfipie View Post

If you print on the fabric it would clog it which would take away from the absorption.

Here's some fabric you are supposed to be able to paint with a high pressure sprayer and it will retain its AT properties: http://www.acoustex.com/Colorcard_custom.html
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post #25 of 160 Old 02-10-2011, 12:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_WI View Post

Very cool.
I'm interested to see your results.
Mike

Hey Mike, my telescope purchase will be early March - so for the next 1-2 months this is in planning/study phase.
Taking many images, stacking them, then the Post Processing (Apple Aperture 3, Adobe CS5, and DSS - Deep Space Stacker) is something I've gotten decent at, but for my "keepers" to print I'll probably be really picky.
fwiw, this is the mount/tripod, I've not decided on the actual optic tube just yet.
Vixen Optics SPHINX SXW Motorized Equatorial Telescope Mount w/ HAL130 Tripod

Quote:
Originally Posted by myfipie View Post

The printing process is called Dye-sublimation. Basically the print is dyed into the fabric instead of printed on the fabric. If you print on the fabric it would clog it which would take away from the absorption.

BTW one of my favorite painters in Germany gifted me a HUGE digital file of one of my favorite paintings from him. Truly was a honor as I think I am the only one to get it. It is DD Ramone in the picture playing in the late 70s (I believe) in Munich. Florian Süssmayr, the painter took the picture when he was a teen then painted it about 6 years ago.

I still need to take some pictures of it hanging in my condo.

Glenn;
Thx for advice on the printing process, I'll review that with the place I found and it they arent capable then I'll have to do more looking.
Like I said, after making my DIY panels I can really appreciate all the time and effort your company (and the other suppliers) go into making a quality product.
Simply, I love wood products and yours are 1st class beautiful!

Looking fed to seeing your pict of the acoustic artwork hanging in your Condo

Quote:
Originally Posted by erkq View Post

Here's some fabric you are supposed to be able to paint with a high pressure sprayer and it will retain its AT properties: http://www.acoustex.com/Colorcard_custom.html

Thx erkq for the link, I'll have to confirm the place I found what material and process they use, and if not suitable then yours is on my list to contact.
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Today's project: Home Theater Ceiling Acoustic "Cloud", status: 1 Completed and installed!
It actually handles the 2nd row 1st reflection points, I'm holding off making the 1st row 1st reflection points Acoustic "Cloud" until I'm done with Bass traps in the corners and do some detailed room readings.

Final BOM:
-(1) 1" x 10" x 12' pine board (ripped into (2) 4" wide boards)
-(1) 1" x 6" x 10' pine board (for the ends and the mid sections)
-Fabric, 56" wide, cut 13' 2" (I got 20 yard roll for all my wall treatments except the side wall ones, which used black speaker cloth)
-drywall screws, 1 5/8 for the end/mid section pieces, 1" for the T and L braces
-T and L braces
- #6 J hooks
-black paint
-electric stapler and staples (I used 5/16 for this project)

I built a 2' x 12' x 4" deep box as shown:


Note: I separated each 2' x 4' sheet "zone" with a 1" x 4" x 23 13/16 support, reason 3/16 shy of 24" is I wanted to "grab" the 2' x 4' sheet lengthwise by tightening the screws, it worked and held the fiberboard nicely.

I used a 24" clamp to squeeze the 2 outside boards together as I did the final tighten.

Has anyone tried to find 1" x 6" x 12' straight lumber lately?
I actually had better luck buying 1" x 10" x 12', dead straight, and then ripping it exactly 4" thick to hold the (2) stacked OC703 sheets.
Got (2) 4" wide 12' long pieces that way, dead straight.
Important to look at the endgrain of boards you buy also, you want boards from the outer rings of the tree, they are more stable.


Having used the simulation software for the 1st reflection points, transferred those locations via blue tape onto the ceiling.
Confirmed their accuracy with 1' x 4' mirror and my wife....she was on ladder holding the mirror flat to the ceiling while I was the one sitting in the chair analyzing
Then, with the build wood box, get exact mtg locations via blue tape and much measurement/cross checking. I'm hanging these into the ceiling joists also.


btw, My favorite tool for long straight lines is still this "Strait-Line 64001 Laser Level", $39 @ Home Depot 6 years ago, it has little pins that hold it even upside down.


I found a simple bread knife worked perfectly fine to cut the OC703


Buy lots of hardware, then decide exact method OJT (on the job)....this is after all my 1st time doing this.
I ended up going with #6 J hooks for both the panel and ceiling, and black chain. Will return most of the stuff you see here.
(and those ATS Acoustic plastic screw in anchors I posted above, they are ok for single panel but not for huge beast like this.)


Made this handy drill jig so I can have straight/inline screws.
The 5 minutes it takes to make these pays off with good results later.


Paint the silver hanging hooks black, use a box as spray booth


Add T and L supports to the box, and of course the fabric ordered and delivered (I got 20 yards of 56" wide forest green fabric).
Cut fabric and get ready to use that electric stapler!


Part II coming shortly....
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post #27 of 160 Old 02-10-2011, 10:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Home Theater Ceiling Acoustic "Cloud" - Part II

Showing detail of T and L braces, I was worried about hanging and wanted some insurance for rock solid box.
Note: I drilled and pre-installed all J-hooks, so after the fabric was wrapped I just had to find the hole and re-install them.
Plus, gave exact placement for ceiling transfer of matching locations.


One side stapled taught.


Flip up on edge, now its a 2 person job, my wife pulled down to keep the fabric taught while I stappled.
I should state I was worried about wrinkles, I pulled slightly lengthwise on each end and put 2 temp staples to keep tension longwise for no wrinkles, it worked.


Finish stapling, it's like wrapping a big Christmas gift, keeping the material taught so no wrinkles is the secret.


Edges wrapped like a box gift, this is ceiling side so "perfection" not needed here, still want a secure wrap.


Black hooks and chain waiting for the big box.
Hopefully all the measurements were transferred to ceiling correct, holes drilled correct, etc. Measure 3 times, drill once.


Ta-da! My wife and I hung the panel this morning, here is my youngest son checking it out. 2 ladders, and attaching the far side chain first, then the near side chain.


here is pict from rear of theater, only once did my drill go too far and the chuck "bit" into the ceiling drywall, I spackled and painted that since this pict.
My boy wants to know everything dad is doing and why....luv the guy so much!


The projector beam exits @ 13" from the ceiling, and the screen top edge (image edge) is @ 18" from the ceiling.
This panel is 4" thick and almost 12" from ceiling at the bottom, I hung it low for more bass trapping, and also atheistically its same as the LH side soffit.
The pj light beam is about 2 1 /2 inched below this trap here, so no interference.

Note for other future HT builders:
Consider ceiling light locations relative to speaker location for possible 1st order acoustic treatments......
This 2nd row ceiling treatment catches some of the light from those 3 can lights, but its not so bad.
However, my 1st row - possible acoustic ceiling cloud, would block all 3 lights, so I'll need to address that at later date.

Next up: removable corner bass traps - I need to clean in back of those chairs, only way is removable bass traps.
Here my "prototype", a 24" x 24" x 37" triangle and a 17" x 17" x 24" triangle from pink foam board.
Confirming how high I can go with the bigger/deeper triangle before the sconce (about 5' 6" or so), then will use the smaller size up to the ceiling.
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post #28 of 160 Old 02-11-2011, 08:08 AM
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nicely done.

i must say, your carpet is mesmerzing...
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post #29 of 160 Old 02-11-2011, 11:28 AM - Thread Starter
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nicely done.

i must say, your carpet is mesmerzing...
Thx, it felt good to get the cloud done and hung.

The carpet, we liked the HT theme in it, and at the time our walls were bare.
Plus, there are some reds/blues in it if we wanted to use those for wall accent colors in some future re-do....
Thx for remining me, I owe the guy who sold me the carpet a HT picture, and was waiting for my acoustic panels to go up before taking one....just my 1st row couch is getto and due for replacement April when bonus checks come in.

Returning stuff at Home Depot during lunch, I was studying how to do removable corner bass traps.
I bought some handrail and may "play" with that this weekend.

While my side wall hanging frame panels are fresh in my mind, I saw 2 possible methods/options for others to consider:

1) Use steel stud frame instead of wood.
3 5/8" wide, easy to make a box, and the edges would naturally grab the fiberboard.
Of course you'd want to wrap them with the fabric material, unless you wanted a industrial look and painted them instead.
Bonus: They have some holes in the sides so you'd get some "extra" absorption, or more closely match the test specs since I've read their absorption Coefficients @ various hz are done on panels totally exposed, edges included.

2) Use Glass block plastic channel instead of wood.
4" wide, easy to make a box, and the edges would naturally grab the fiberboard. These are exactly 48" tall, perfect for 2' x 4' sheet, 3 needed per panel.

Possible rivits to hold the channels to each other, with an inner angle channel if needed?
First make the box and see how sturdy it would be before adding reinf.

Steel studs....................................................... ..glass block channel
...

I'd like to see how other DIY'rs have done theirs, so far nobody has PM'd me anything....
Guess once they make their's they move onto other things and don't read these threads, since not on their mindset.
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post #30 of 160 Old 02-11-2011, 11:39 AM
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.............
I'd like to see how other DIY'rs have done theirs, so far nobody has PM'd me anything....
Guess once they make their's they move onto other things and don't read these threads, since not on their mindset.

don't worry. i will upload some photos the next time i get around to working on the frames again.

so far, i managed to get 3 completed last weekend and since it's my first time doing it, i wanted to focus on trying to get it done right.
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