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post #391 of 417 Old 11-27-2014, 02:35 PM
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I'm looking into a planer and jointer purchase; don't want to spend a ton. Any advice ?

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post #392 of 417 Old 11-27-2014, 03:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
I'm looking into a planer and jointer purchase; don't want to spend a ton. Any advice ?

Hey Mike -- Happy Thanksgiving!!


I've had great luck with Grizzly for these kinds of tools. They have a good selection of jointers and a 6" model is probably a good place to start. A 12" "bench top" version is the typical entry point for planers.


HSS knives for both will save you some money; the upgrades to those (which you could do later) are the replaceable carbide cutters in a helical arrangement on a new cutting head. But if you keep steel knives sharp and don't run anything with metal through there, they do a great job.


I think that Jet is also a good choice for the "better" group of Taiwanese tools. I think I read somewhere that most of these brands are all made in the same factory but have different levels of quality control, it seems.


Hope that helps! Good luck and keep us posted...


Bryan
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post #393 of 417 Old 11-29-2014, 12:53 PM
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That helps a lot ! Thanks! I knew you would have good advice. I also had my eyes on the Dewalt 735... thoughts on that?

BTW- any good youtube wood working subscriptions or forums you like?

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post #394 of 417 Old 11-29-2014, 01:26 PM - Thread Starter
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That Dewalt planer would actually be my top recommendation, but was trying to offer some more "budget friendly" choices. If you can swing it, I'm confident that you'd be extremely pleased with that tool.

Personally, my two favorite woodworking magazines are Fine Woodworking (very high-end projects) and Woodsmith and Shopnotes (good fundamental techniques). The latter group also has a weekly show on PBS that's fun to watch (though a bit dorky sometimes...)

rec.woodworking used to be the go-to online forum, but I haven't been there in years.
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post #395 of 417 Old 11-29-2014, 04:02 PM
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The dewalt seems like it has a nice tweak and upgrade path. Changing the heads is something I could upgrade later
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post #396 of 417 Old 12-09-2014, 06:56 PM
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You know anything about upgrading a table saw fence ? Worth it?

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post #397 of 417 Old 12-09-2014, 07:02 PM
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Definitely.
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post #398 of 417 Old 12-10-2014, 09:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
You know anything about upgrading a table saw fence ? Worth it?

Mike, I don't have much experience with this, but my answer would probably be "it depends on what saw you're trying to upgrade". As BllDo states, any upgrade will be an improvement. My guess is that inexpensive saws generally come with lower-quality fences, and this can lead to frustrating and/or inaccurate cuts. Since you're asking about this upgrade, my guess is that you're not entirely happy with your current fence.


However, the old "lipstick on a pig" rule applies, so you'd just want to be sure that you're not spending too much money on the fence while ignoring any underlying problems with the saw. Maybe it's better to just save up a bit more $$$ and then replace the whole saw / fence setup at once.


I guess my best way to think about it is to consider what features of a table saw fence are important to you. My personal list would look something like (in descending order of importance to me):


- Is straight / square / true
- Must lock dead square to the blade / table and be adjustable and repeatable over time
- Must be secure when locked down, including the far end -- bumping a workpiece against it should not shift its position
- Should be easy to use with a reliable measuring system
- Enough capacity to handle whatever size cuts you foresee
- Has the ability to add accessories like hold-downs or home-made jigs
- etc


Everyone's list might be different, but maybe think about yours. And then answer the question "how is my current fence meeting these needs?"


Hope that helps!
Bryan
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post #399 of 417 Old 12-10-2014, 12:09 PM
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Thanks for the insight, I am on the fence (literally!) about upgrading.

I have a full size contractor style saw that is probably 25+ years old. I think it's a CP tools ? IDK.. but it cuts great and straight. I took the whole thing apart recently, put it back together with a micrometer and set the blade to near perfection. It's as good as I can measure, and the blade is straight. I've been using the DIABLO red blades from HD recently, and they seem to work pretty well.

It's a 30" rip fence, but it's that older style fence that uses the round metal bars, and the back side does not hold so well. So what I get it the front lucky tooth is perfect when I measure or set it, but the back of the blade is just a tad farther away. It's not the blade, it's the fence. @J_P_A sent me a rigid brand magnetic featherboard because I was looking for one, and his top is aluminum and he could not use a gift he got. Sometimes I use that to prop behind the fence and hold it tight and straight- which actually works pretty darn good- but is just an extra annoying step that each time I do it pisses me off I have to do it.

I think I would like a full quality pro grade fence, with a longer rip. My next project is a side extension and outfeed table for my saw to make it a cabinet saw out of a contractor saw. This plus a fence upgrade would keep me happy, but I like you wonder if I should just be looking at a new saw.

My fear with that is I won't like anything in the $500 range, and I'll get stuck going with something like a $6500 powermatic.

Ideally I would like something in between, but a proper fence would make me happy with the saw I have. I just know nothing about what is what, and why I was asking. I don't think I could install a Biesemyer fence fence on the table I have, although I am sure I probably could with some ambition. The circular tube solutions I fear would be only slightly better than what I have.

I am wondering if I could slap something like this on there: http://www.incrementaltools.com/INCR..._p/ls52-ts.htm

My top is cast iron, it's thick, heavy, solid, and flat. I could probably mount anything to it if I drilled it out from the sides and used fasteners.

I saw this: http://lumberjocks.com/Hutch/blog/2740 I could do something like that too.

What would a good saw be that is say under $1500 ? Suggestion on that? I'm kind of stuck in this spot where I could afford a fence, but not a new saw. Wife not working, the twins are expensive, and I have a remodel I need to pay for. I'm broker than broke at the moment so while I would love to buy a new saw, I also know I won't be happy with a cheap one. Part of me knows at 37 years old I should just do it right, and reap the rewards for the next 25 years of having done that. The saw I use now is 25 years old, it's probably 30+ actually. I was a really small kid when it was purchased by my late uncle. I actually wore out the on/off switch and had to put a new one on last week.

What table saw you have? Like it? Would you do something different this time around?

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Last edited by Mfusick; 12-10-2014 at 12:13 PM.
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post #400 of 417 Old 12-10-2014, 12:46 PM
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If you have a chance to upgrade to a cabinet saw, do it! I was looking at new and used for years. Finally bought a Grizzly 3hp with 50in cutting table and mobile base. the thing cuts like butter and with a couple supports front and rear, I can cut full sheets of MDF with little hassle. One benefit is that they are heavy and don't move when you push a sheet of ply through it.
I used mine to build my wife cabinets for her closet as my first project.
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post #401 of 417 Old 12-10-2014, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by ktm250rider View Post
If you have a chance to upgrade to a cabinet saw, do it! I was looking at new and used for years. Finally bought a Grizzly 3hp with 50in cutting table and mobile base. the thing cuts like butter and with a couple supports front and rear, I can cut full sheets of MDF with little hassle. One benefit is that they are heavy and don't move when you push a sheet of ply through it.
I used mine to build my wife cabinets for her closet as my first project.

Cabinets for my wifes closet is on the agenda. I traded that for my ability to make a theater during the remodel. She's been showing me pictures of Tom Brady's wife closet..

But for sheet goods I bought a Festool Tracksaw. I could not say enough good things about it if I typed for years. Just an awesome tool. I cut 20 sheets of MDF with it last weekend. Very easy and accurate.

I bought all the damaged MDF from the local HD (that is all they had ) for 50% off each sheet. A lot extra trouble trimming it, but saved enough cash to make it worth it. We did some sub boxes, so first thing I did was rip into 24"x48" pieces.




Then I cut some up for some speakers I am making:




It's as accurate as I can measure. The dust collection is amazing. I'm done cutting sheet goods on a table saw forever I think. The cuts are professional cabinet quality cuts too, especially with a fresh blade and normal wood. I can totally see why all the professionals rave about this tool.

But it won't replace a table saw, more compliment it. On stuff I need it super exact dimensions, I might measure a 1/4" extra and then run all pieces through the fence for identical dimensions, but honestly if you pay attention and measure and mark properly you would not need to do that on this saw, even for smaller piece cuts.
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post #402 of 417 Old 12-10-2014, 01:53 PM
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Step 1. Have $25,000 in tools.
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post #403 of 417 Old 12-10-2014, 08:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
What table saw you have? Like it? Would you do something different this time around?

A few years back I treated myself to a Delta Unisaw with a 52" Beisemeyer fence, and then built a big and solid outfeed table. Zero complaints about the setup, and wouldn't do anything differently. Powermatic and General are other, great choices, but I'd buy the same saw again if I needed to.
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post #404 of 417 Old 12-10-2014, 08:48 PM - Thread Starter
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But for sheet goods I bought a Festool Tracksaw.
Nicely played, sir. I don't have that particular tool, but I've only read / seen / heard great things about it.


Having that certainly changes things a bit on your table saw / fence decision. For example, if you don't have to use your table saw to cut a 4x8 sheet of plywood in half (to make two 4x4 pieces), then that alleviates much of the need for a full 52" capacity rip fence setup... which can save a lot of space in your shop.
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post #405 of 417 Old 12-11-2014, 05:33 AM
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Three items:

1. I just squared up my saws too, best thing I ever did. I bought a high precision machinist square and one of those digital angle gauges from woodcraft. 20 mins of figuring out how to make all the adjustments later and my aluminum top portable bosch saw is cutting like a unisaw. Same thing from my sliding miter saw.... The other thing I did was buy one of the cheaper incra miter gauges for the table saw. My fence is actually pretty decent, it was my miter and blade alignment that had my cuts off.

2. I stumbled across this a while ago, a very inexpensive way to get into a Besemeyer fence for a contractor saw. I am trolling craigslist looking for a decent contractor saw with cast wings to snap up for a song and add one of these...unfortunately there does not seem to be such a thing... it's all skill, ryobi, and the cheap craftsman saws and I think my bosch is better than all of those. This could just be the ticket for you though:

http://vsctools.com/product-details/diy-table-saw/

3. If you're working with sheet goods, forget spending money on a new tablesaw and get a tracksaw. I used the dewalt version and it's the best thing since bubbles. The cuts were not consistently table saw quality (mirror edge with good blade), however it may have been a blade or operator error. They were 100% straight and were good enough to do light sanding before finishing though and much faster/more repeatable than the circ saw/straight edge method. As posted above it completely gets you out of the game of cutting any large sheets on the table saw. I was able to use the cut edges directly for glue up of speaker cabs. The only thing better for sheet goods is a panel saw and you're talking >$1k and a lot of space for one of those. I know the festool is the king in this area, but I wouldn't pause on buying the dewalt. I'm sure makita is a fine machine too, just haven't used one of those.
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post #406 of 417 Old 12-11-2014, 07:44 AM
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Quote:
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A few years back I treated myself to a Delta Unisaw with a 52" Beisemeyer fence, and then built a big and solid outfeed table. Zero complaints about the setup, and wouldn't do anything differently. Powermatic and General are other, great choices, but I'd buy the same saw again if I needed to.
I also have the Delta Unisaw, but with the unifence.
It is a good fence with great repeatability.
Huge downfall is the fence does not allow (easily) for over fence jigs, upgrade one day
Could you post a pic of your table saw layout?
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post #407 of 417 Old 12-11-2014, 08:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
What would a good saw be that is say under $1500 ? Suggestion on that?
With that amount to spend, I personally would look very hard at the Grizzly model G0690. Based on my experiences with Grizzly, I doubt you would ever regret upgrading to that saw. And with your tracksaw, you don't need to spend the extra money on the larger fence setup, saving you space and money...
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post #408 of 417 Old 12-11-2014, 08:57 AM
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^+1. I've very happy with my Grizzly. It's a great saw.
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post #409 of 417 Old 12-11-2014, 10:42 AM
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Beautiful room! I have been trying to get my parents to do something similar in their game room.
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post #410 of 417 Old 12-12-2014, 09:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waterboy77 View Post
I also have the Delta Unisaw, but with the unifence.
It is a good fence with great repeatability.
Huge downfall is the fence does not allow (easily) for over fence jigs, upgrade one day
Could you post a pic of your table saw layout?

Sure, happy to share. Here's one showing the general layout:



I built a rolling cart with locking castors that I can wheel in front of the saw when I need help with infeed support.


Because Biesemeyer fences are square in shape, it's easy to build jigs that straddle the fence and slide along its length accurately. From there, it's just up to your imagination to design jigs to help you out.


I purchased Delta's sacrificial fence and use that not only when I need to bury part of the blade in the fence, but also when I want to add T-track accessories, like hold downs:



I built a crosscut sled which I use often:



I can also install a long T-track on the left side of this sled's fence and use that with a moveable stop when making repeated cuts of a fixed length. This seems to be more accurate to me than doing the same thing with my chopsaw setup.


Hope this helps!
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post #411 of 417 Old 12-12-2014, 09:40 AM
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Nicely played, sir. I don't have that particular tool, but I've only read / seen / heard great things about it.


Having that certainly changes things a bit on your table saw / fence decision. For example, if you don't have to use your table saw to cut a 4x8 sheet of plywood in half (to make two 4x4 pieces), then that alleviates much of the need for a full 52" capacity rip fence setup... which can save a lot of space in your shop.
Great Point. And if you ever need such a beast... grab the Festool. It's wonderful.

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post #412 of 417 Old 12-12-2014, 12:02 PM
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Sorry to turn this thread into the "wood workers hang out" Bryan... Take it as a compliment.

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Thanks Bryan, yes take it as a compliment!
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post #414 of 417 Old 12-13-2014, 09:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Sorry to turn this thread into the "wood workers hang out" Bryan... Take it as a compliment.
Thanks, Mike, but everyone here knows darned well that this thread has always been mostly about woodworking...
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post #415 of 417 Old 12-13-2014, 05:59 PM
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You basically built a theater on the first page, then just spent the rest wood working and building a bar...

What is your next wood working project? I still want to see you take on some ultra sweet speaker build.

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post #416 of 417 Unread Today, 10:34 AM - Thread Starter
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You basically built a theater on the first page, then just spent the rest wood working and building a bar...

What is your next wood working project? I still want to see you take on some ultra sweet speaker build.

Well, I really don't have anything woodworking going on right now... With my spare time, I've been building a brew rig and am close to finishing that up. I'll post something when I finally get that done and brewing...


As for speakers... I'm waiting to see what you're coming up with!!!
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In high school I took 1 semester of wood shop, circia 1979, our teachers nickname was "wood daddy", that torch is passed to Bryan and this thread, hidden gems of knowledge here.


Via Mikes brain/thumb interface, LLAP
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