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post #271 of 1093 Old 09-25-2011, 11:42 AM
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Nice, coming together.

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post #272 of 1093 Old 09-26-2011, 09:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Brought home the wood for the stage. Thought I needed a better plan than just winging it, so I sketched up some dimensions.



One question I have is how much of an overhang does everybody usually leave on the top and on the steps? I planned 3/4" but was wondering if that is enough.
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post #273 of 1093 Old 09-27-2011, 08:16 AM
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Do you plan to add a bullnose to the edge or use a router to round over the plywood? If you're using a router to trim it down, I would say you need at least double that - maybe even 2". (I think I saw a 2" overhang in some plans done by Dennis Erskine, but I'm not positive.)

The Esquire Theater Construction Thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1289590
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post #274 of 1093 Old 09-27-2011, 09:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Yes I was planning on rounding over the edges with a router. you may be right and 3/4 may not be enough. Stair treads are usually around an inch but on the stage I only really care about how it looks. I'm curious what others have done on their stages. I've looked at a lot of stages in the threads but none that I can find really seem to give any dimensions.
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post #275 of 1093 Old 09-28-2011, 04:23 AM
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Just stumbled into your thread. Great to see another person take on build a chambered IB. I think you'll be very happy with the result.

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post #276 of 1093 Old 09-28-2011, 07:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks Cathan - I am subscribed to your thread but haven't seen it in a while - probably needs a bump. Ive wanted to build an IB sub for a long time but never had a house where I could make it work. I've been a member of the "IB cult" forum since 2006. When we bought this new house, I couldn't wait to get started - Hence it was one of the first things I did in the theater

Your build and Moggies build were the main ones I used for inspiration. ones that I used for my design. Glad to have someone go there before me. I cant wait to get it fired up. Still have not even tested it.
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post #277 of 1093 Old 09-28-2011, 08:30 AM
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Stockmonkey how high will your stage be, are those 2x10's you're using? Your build looks great so far.
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post #278 of 1093 Old 09-28-2011, 08:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Yes they are 2x10. 2x10 are 9 1/4" so with the 3/4 flooring it will be 10" high. Here are the dimensions of the stage. I made the top "step" the same width as the space between my soffits so they will match up. The bottom step will be wider than the soffits above. Most stages I've seen have a smaller peice on the sides, but my soffits are fairly wide and that is why I made them larger.

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post #279 of 1093 Old 09-28-2011, 08:46 AM - Thread Starter
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By the way I did some calculations on the sand needed for the stage. Each of the large chambers is about 4 cubic feet. A 60 lb bag has 1/2 cubic feet so I need 8 bags per chamber. I figure it is going to take about 5000 lbs of sand to fill that thing. I have been bringing home bags of sand from Home depot here and there when I think about it and have about 25 bags at home. Looks like I have a bit more to start bringing home.
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post #280 of 1093 Old 09-28-2011, 03:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stockmonkey2000 View Post

Thanks Cathan - I am subscribed to your thread but haven't seen it in a while - probably needs a bump. Ive wanted to build an IB sub for a long time but never had a house where I could make it work. I've been a member of the "IB cult" forum since 2006. When we bought this new house, I couldn't wait to get started - Hence it was one of the first things I did in the theater

Your build and Moggies build were the main ones I used for inspiration. ones that I used for my design. Glad to have someone go there before me. I cant wait to get it fired up. Still have not even tested it.

Well it looks like you are doing great work. Both you and Moggies significantly improved up what I did. I keep telling the wife, that if I had to just build a room from scratch (and not the rest of the basement), I'm pretty sure I could get it all done in a few months and not the two years it took me.

So anyway, keep on plugging way. You're flying through lots of the tough parts at this point.

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post #281 of 1093 Old 09-28-2011, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by stockmonkey2000 View Post

By the way I did some calculations on the sand needed for the stage. Each of the large chambers is about 4 cubic feet. A 60 lb bag has 1/2 cubic feet so I need 8 bags per chamber. I figure it is going to take about 5000 lbs of sand to fill that thing. I have been bringing home bags of sand from Home depot here and there when I think about it and have about 25 bags at home. Looks like I have a bit more to start bringing home.

Get it delivered. I'm sure a local building supply place can deliver a pallet and your back and car will thank you.

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post #282 of 1093 Old 09-28-2011, 03:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stockmonkey2000 View Post

By the way I did some calculations on the sand needed for the stage. Each of the large chambers is about 4 cubic feet. A 60 lb bag has 1/2 cubic feet so I need 8 bags per chamber. I figure it is going to take about 5000 lbs of sand to fill that thing. I have been bringing home bags of sand from Home depot here and there when I think about it and have about 25 bags at home. Looks like I have a bit more to start bringing home.

Your estimate is high. You will need just under 4000 lbs of sand. I did almost an identical stage, in fact I think mine is a little bit bigger even, and had a few bags too many when I did 4000lbs. So you won't even need that much.

Trust me, you don't want to have to return it

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1350179&page=4
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post #283 of 1093 Old 09-28-2011, 09:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Cathan View Post

Get it delivered. I'm sure a local building supply place can deliver a pallet and your back and car will thank you.

Thats what I should have done - I read in Moggies thread that he started bringing home a few bags here and there so I started doing that a while ago. I would forget to get sand on most trips, but managed to bring home 25 bags or so here and there. They are all in the garage though so they all have to still go downstairs. The cost actually adds up quite a bit buying the bags. I thought about buying a yard or so but it would be hard to get in the basement. Would have been much cheaper though.

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Your estimate is high. You will need just under 4000 lbs of sand. I did almost an identical stage, in fact I think mine is a little bit bigger even, and had a few bags too many when I did 4000lbs. So you won't even need that much.

Trust me, you don't want to have to return it

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1350179&page=4

That is a relief. I certainly hope that is the case.
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post #284 of 1093 Old 09-28-2011, 09:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by W00lly View Post

I did a 2" over hang on my stage and riser. I also did 2 layers of osb but only over hung the top layer. I also ran my 2x12"s the long way and built it in two section made alot less work.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...3#post11247083

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...3#post11511303

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...&postcount=154

W00lly I am subscribed to your thread but did not think to revisit your stage. I could have saved myself some time and money doing the cross members the long way. I have already cut the lumber though. I also had to build mine in place )because of the size and doing the length with one piece, which meant I could not nail the cross members from the back side. I had to buy L brackets for the back wall. Buying enough of those was $30.
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post #285 of 1093 Old 09-28-2011, 10:17 PM
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Wow this is just uncanny. I moved into a new house last year and have been planing out my new HT. Our rooms are almost identical. My room is about 1 foot wider then yours but unfortunately my hvac and water heater are at the back of the room so my HT will end up being about 6 foot shorter. I even have an HVAC supply line running in the same place you do.

All of my plans and 3d renders look nearly identical to what you are building. I am planing on building the same IB setup with Fi 18s and the same AT front wall with a constant height screen.

Your thread is going to be a great help to me when I finally get to start on my own ht.
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post #286 of 1093 Old 09-29-2011, 09:03 AM - Thread Starter
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BlakeN - You should get a build thread started if you have some renders already. I really wish I did not have the HVAC stuff to work around. It was a pretty big pain to rip that out, drywall then essentially put it back. I have concrete walls on each side and the side with the HVAC run has a garage on the other side. I thought about running the HVAC for the room above through the garage, but it would have involved cutting concrete and moving the stairway from the garage to the house. Seemed like a big task so I did it this way. I would not have made the soffits as wide as they are or as high.

How much height do you have? I started with 8'9" before drywall clips etc, but I could really use some more height - especially on the back where the riser will be. The ceilings were supposed to be 9' but they probably poured the slab too thick. Those extra 3 inches would have really helped.

My width was 15' 6" if I remember correctly from concrete wall to concrete wall. The extra foot of width you have will be very nice. Gives bigger screen and seating options.
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post #287 of 1093 Old 09-29-2011, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by stockmonkey2000 View Post

BlakeN - You should get a build thread started if you have some renders already. I really wish I did not have the HVAC stuff to work around. It was a pretty big pain to rip that out, drywall then essentially put it back. I have concrete walls on each side and the side with the HVAC run has a garage on the other side. I thought about running the HVAC for the room above through the garage, but it would have involved cutting concrete and moving the stairway from the garage to the house. Seemed like a big task so I did it this way. I would not have made the soffits as wide as they are or as high.

I think we live in near identical houses. My garage is also along that wall. I was sweating how to move the line and was thinking of hiring someone to move it but after seeing you do it I'm going to just have to do it myself.

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Originally Posted by stockmonkey2000 View Post

How much height do you have? I started with 8'9" before drywall clips etc, but I could really use some more height - especially on the back where the riser will be. The ceilings were supposed to be 9' but they probably poured the slab too thick. Those extra 3 inches would have really helped.

I'm going to have to remeasure the height when I get home to make sure but the only render I have that has that dimension on it says 7' 9". So ya it's pretty low. I don't think I'm going to go quite as far with isolation as you did because of that. The kid's bedrooms are on the 2nd floor on the other side of the house and my wife sleeps like a log so I'm not too worried about escaping sound just outside sound coming in. The hardwood floors in the kitchen/dining area directly above are my biggest concern.

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Originally Posted by stockmonkey2000 View Post

My width was 15' 6" if I remember correctly from concrete wall to concrete wall. The extra foot of width you have will be very nice. Gives bigger screen and seating options.

I think my screen will be about the same size as yours. The reason is I have an egress window right about where yours is close to the baffle wall. It will actually be between the baffle wall and the AT wall. It is the only way out of the basement other then the stairs. The area between the wall and the screen has to be big enough to get out in an emergency.

Did you start a project over at the cult of the infinitely baffled?
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post #288 of 1093 Old 09-29-2011, 02:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes I have a project started over at the cult but I try to only put the stuff relevant to the IB there. I keep the thread here updated more frequently. I'm not sure if I made it clear in my thread but I did not move the AC condenser lines only the duct work. I was able to slide the drywall over the condenser lines and work around them. Removing them would have been problematic.

I mentioned it earlier but with all the soundproofing it is surprising how much buzzing noise those condenser lines make. I hope I do not have any issue with them once the soffit is enclosed. I never noticed the noise at all until the drywall was up and the door installed.
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post #289 of 1093 Old 09-30-2011, 11:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Been having trouble this week finding time to work on the theater. I did get some of the stage done just need to finish the steps. Looks like Saturday is going to be filling the stage with sand.

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post #290 of 1093 Old 10-02-2011, 09:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Did some more work on the stage over the weekend. Took a lot longer than I expected. I thought I would have the entire thing done on Saturday. I filled up a few chambers with sand and damelon was right. It looks like it is going to take roughly 40 bags which is about half what I was estimating.





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post #291 of 1093 Old 10-03-2011, 06:42 AM
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Hey, that stage looks familiar! I just about finished up my stage if you want to see the videos and photos in my thread (check my signature). It looks like you're a far more competent builder than I am but since our stages are so similar I thought you might want to have a look. I decided to cut the decking flush with my router and then come back and add strips of pine for the overhang. My overhang is only going to be about an inch with a 3/8" roundover.

I wound up using just over 2000 pounds of sand in my stage and it was no fun lugging all of that in there!
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post #292 of 1093 Old 10-03-2011, 07:05 AM
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Fully enclosed sand bagging in the stage, that is something I had not yet seen! You are far too clean to be doing construction. I require more mess in your photos.
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post #293 of 1093 Old 10-03-2011, 07:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Hey, that stage looks familiar! I just about finished up my stage if you want to see the videos and photos in my thread (check my signature). It looks like you're a far more competent builder than I am but since our stages are so similar I thought you might want to have a look. I decided to cut the decking flush with my router and then come back and add strips of pine for the overhang. My overhang is only going to be about an inch with a 3/8" roundover.

I wound up using just over 2000 pounds of sand in my stage and it was no fun lugging all of that in there!

Yes it is a pretty common stage here now. I've seen a lot of stages like this and admit that I just copied others designs. I was originally thinking of curved steps on the side also but this style fit the look in my room better with the soffits. Not sure who is responsible for the original one like this here but I did not see any reason to try and come up with something unique as I really like this design.
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post #294 of 1093 Old 10-03-2011, 07:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Fully enclosed sand bagging in the stage, that is something I had not yet seen! You are far too clean to be doing construction. I require more mess in your photos.

Yes I will have to re-think the fully enclosed sand. I went down the next day and noticed moisture on the inside of the bag. I thought the sand was pretty dry but I'll have to open then back up so the sand can dry out. And the room is not always that clean. I usually clean things up a bit before taking pictures.
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post #295 of 1093 Old 10-03-2011, 09:01 AM
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I've never really paid close attention to sand filled stages. If one is sand filling for resonance control/solidity, couldn't similar non-resonance attributes be accomplished by filling every-other stud bay? Cut the work in half,..? Again, way out of my wheel house here with stages, etc., just merely inquiring.

Also, one of my fave builds around. Simple, yet extremely thorough execution of all aspects. I'm excited wrt your audio system. Those mains, I'm sure are superb (especially for music). Being a fellow IB enthusiast, I'm really looking forward to any measured response, but most of all your subjective reaction to bass done right.

Congrats on the progress.

All the best

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post #296 of 1093 Old 10-03-2011, 09:43 AM - Thread Starter
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I've never really paid close attention to sand filled stages. If one is sand filling for resonance control/solidity, couldn't similar non-resonance attributes be accomplished by filling every-other stud bay? Cut the work in half,..? Again, way out of my wheel house here with stages, etc., just merely inquiring.

Also, one of my fave builds around. Simple, yet extremely thorough execution of all aspects. I'm excited wrt your audio system. Those mains, I'm sure are superb (especially for music). Being a fellow IB enthusiast, I'm really looking forward to any measured response, but most of all your subjective reaction to bass done right.

Congrats on the progress.

All the best

Thanks for the compliments. I'm really excited to get my speakers set up. You might be right on the stage. I'm not sure how necessary it is to fill up the entire stage, but I figure that the more mass is better and its easy enough to do at this point. The front steps and the two little wings will just be filled with insulation. I am going to run a conduit from the back of the stage to each side of the front of the stage that I can use to run speaker wires for floor standing speakers. That way I can still listen to monitors or floorstanding speakers for music listening without placing them behind the screen. I'm going to try the PBN's behind the screen and see how they work but will have the option to have speakers behind the screen or out into the room.

I've also been thinking of building some 3pi horn speakers using the B&C De250 compression driver and the Acoustic Elegance 12" driver. I'm not sure I will need the additional output as the PBN's were as loud as I ever needed them to be and that was in a bigger room (18x33) than I have now. It seems everyone is doing horns these days so I thought I would see what the buzz is all about. I will say that most of the horns I have heard I have not been too crazy about, but do have limited experience with them other than through concert venues and such.
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post #297 of 1093 Old 10-03-2011, 10:30 AM
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Started installing the Delta-FL and Subfloor.

Looks great! IF I end up having to remove my dricore AGAIN, I'm going with the Delta-FL. I think, though, that I would use plywood instead of OSB. The one thing I notice is that OSB REALLY soaks up water.

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Get it delivered. I'm sure a local building supply place can deliver a pallet and your back and car will thank you.

I hauled in a about 20 bags and then paid some. uh, shall we say, "guest workers" to haul in the other 30 AND my 200 panels of dricore. Next to drywall hanging, finishing and painting, it's the best money I've spent so far!

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post #298 of 1093 Old 10-03-2011, 11:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Looks great! IF I end up having to remove my dricore AGAIN, I'm going with the Delta-FL. I think, though, that I would use plywood instead of OSB. The one thing I notice is that OSB REALLY soaks up water.
!

I really hope that I do not get to find that out like you have
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post #299 of 1093 Old 10-03-2011, 01:22 PM
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I hope you don't find out, either. I CERTAINLY don't wish it on anyone else. I'm really hoping I can save it this time.

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post #300 of 1093 Old 10-04-2011, 10:52 AM
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I've also been thinking of building some 3pi horn speakers using the B&C De250 compression driver and the Acoustic Elegance 12" driver.

The B&C-DE250, and AE LF driver is a known, state of the art combo. You could always build them w/an outboard passive Xover, and eventually get into an active, dsp contoured, bi-amplified system. Power is cheap, dsp processing/ active Xovers are cheap. With the passive unit, you could have a known target, then voice to it.

Another option is the passive eD Cinema debut,...very reasonably priced. Another will be Mark Seaton's diy offering when it's released. It's a high end, diy cabinet, for an AE 12", and a comp HF.



Quote:


I'm not sure I will need the additional output as the PBN's were as loud as I ever needed them to be and that was in a bigger room (18x33) than I have now. It seems everyone is doing horns these days so I thought I would see what the buzz is all about.

The measure of directivity control that the horn/waveguide units offer is what could be of benefit. Not only does the waveguide offer directivity, but the larger 12" driver handling some MF energy, offers controled beamwidth at freqs approaching it's diameter.

Quote:


I will say that most of the horns I have heard I have not been too crazy about, but do have limited experience with them other than through concert venues and such

Yes, HOM, or higher order modes, as discovered and layed out by Earl Geddes. The intra-horn reflections, prior to even exiting the horn, do exhibit some psycho-acoustic nastiness with some designs. Geddes addresses this with patented technique of open cell foam within the waveguide, thus attenuating side to side energy less than the energy directly exiting.


All this is academic, as you've got some superb loudspeakers. We all preach higher output designs etc., but those PBN's are some of the finest speakers around Most would be quite envious.


Good luck

------------------------------------
Flat, Deep, Clean, Linear, and Loud
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Active 16.8kw, 7.3 system
(3)Seaton Cat12C up front, (4)QSC K8 sides/rears
(2)Seaton SubM-HP, (4)18" IB
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