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post #361 of 1093 Old 11-05-2011, 10:20 AM
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Ow what a pain - I had that happen on one of my wall panels, I think due to having the material reversed (looks the same both sides to the naked eye - until the panel is up ) - yours is obviously more impactful due to the size and fibers.
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post #362 of 1093 Old 11-05-2011, 04:13 PM - Thread Starter
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This star ceiling installation has been quite the test of my patience. With the re-done 3rd panel up, there is even some variation in color in that panel also. Its nowhere near as bad as the first time I put it up, but it will definitely bother me. In addition, I have some fabric sagging in that panel also, despite priming the panel and using lots of glue.

After much deliberation, I decided that the stretch velvet fabric is not the right material for the job. I thought the velvet would look and perform nice and the stretch velvet is fairly acoustically transparent. In addition the stretch velvet seems to be the only velvet fabric wide enough to cover a 4 foot wide panel. The big problem is that the glue does not adhere to the back of the fabric very well because it has a very smooth shiny back. I think the stretch also makes it difficult to glue and you have to avoid stretching too much or it makes the fabric look different.

While it really hurts to go back and re-do 25 hours + of work, I think that is what I will have to do to make it look right. I did some experiments with some GOM FR701 fabric and it is surprising how much better it sticks to the panels and how much easier it is to work with. So I placed an order with Fabricmate today for GOM Fabric. All I can say is I hope this is all worth it when all is said and done.
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post #363 of 1093 Old 11-05-2011, 07:10 PM
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What are the reasons for using an acoustically transparent fabric over the MDF panels? I ask because I just received the Triple Black Velvet from Sy Fabrics and the Black Stretch Velvet from Joannes today. The Triple Black Velvet is definitely not as AT as the Stretch, but it has a nice uniform flat back, and has a much darker front. I can't tell you if the sheen is directional until I get it installed tomorrow though.
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post #364 of 1093 Old 11-06-2011, 05:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stockmonkey2000 View Post


While it really hurts to go back and re-do 25 hours + of work, I think that is what I will have to do to make it look right. I did some experiments with some GOM FR701 fabric and it is surprising how much better it sticks to the panels and how much easier it is to work with. So I placed an order with Fabricmate today for GOM Fabric. All I can say is I hope this is all worth it when all is said and done.

If it makes anyone feel better, I've redone more things, taking more countless hours than anyone.. starting with tearing down the original framing i had done before finding the forum, going back, cutting out and reinstalling 3 layers with GG to redo my HVAC plan (or actually the lack of one) etc..etc..

On a side note.. I spent alot of time, as do many, looking for a substitute for the GOM also. I felt like it looked like Burlap. but honestly after working with it and getting my panels done, it does not look Burlappy at all.. it has a nice clean look when installed.

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post #365 of 1093 Old 11-06-2011, 08:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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What are the reasons for using an acoustically transparent fabric over the MDF panels? I ask because I just received the Triple Black Velvet from Sy Fabrics and the Black Stretch Velvet from Joannes today. The Triple Black Velvet is definitely not as AT as the Stretch, but it has a nice uniform flat back, and has a much darker front. I can't tell you if the sheen is directional until I get it installed tomorrow though.

if you have a large surface like the ceiling that absorbs only the high frequencies, you run the risk of making the room sound too dead especially when used in combination with broadband absorbers around the room. Some of the thick velvet I have seen would attenuate the high frequencies too much. Its best to have broadband absorption but even that can be used too much.
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post #366 of 1093 Old 11-07-2011, 07:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scl23enn4m3 View Post

I just received the Triple Black Velvet from Sy Fabrics and the Black Stretch Velvet from Joannes today. The Triple Black Velvet is definitely not as AT as the Stretch, but it has a nice uniform flat back, and has a much darker front. I can't tell you if the sheen is directional until I get it installed tomorrow though.

Not sure how much stretch velvet you ordered but just watch for the inconsistency between bolts of fabric if you ordered more than 8 yards. I went in to a Joann's store to check out the velvet and noticed the variation in sheen between the different bolts there also. Some were very black and some had an almost blue sheen to them, yet they all had the same SKU number. You also need to be careful about how much you actually stretch the fabric when applying it, If you have too much stretch it will look lighter. It really is a pain to work with and appears to be a crap shoot whether the fabric looks the same.
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post #367 of 1093 Old 11-11-2011, 07:42 AM
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I love the build thread! Nice attention to detail and workmanship. Was that a Christmas tree I saw?
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post #368 of 1093 Old 11-11-2011, 07:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Yes that was a Christmas tree - Those speaker pics are not current (with the exception of the center channel), I just put up what I could find. They've all been boxed in their crates now for over a year.
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post #369 of 1093 Old 11-14-2011, 07:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Last week I ripped down the old ceiling and removed all the fibers and fabric. I primed the first two panels. I found that I had to re-drill all the holes after the primer went on because it was too hard to get the fibers through. My fabric arrived late last week so I started putting up the new panels. The Guilford of Maine FR701 was much easier to work with than the velvet. It was easier to apply, easier to get the fibers through, and most importantly, the glue actually sticks to it.

I managed to get 3 panels put up, so I am officially back to where I left off on Friday of last week. I'm very happy with the way it looks with the GOM fabric.

Here's a shot of where it currently stands.

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post #370 of 1093 Old 11-14-2011, 12:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stockmonkey2000 View Post

if you have a large surface like the ceiling that absorbs only the high frequencies, you run the risk of making the room sound too dead especially when used in combination with broadband absorbers around the room. Some of the thick velvet I have seen would attenuate the high frequencies too much. Its best to have broadband absorption but even that can be used too much.

Ah ok, that makes sense. Thanks for the clarification.

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Not sure how much stretch velvet you ordered but just watch for the inconsistency between bolts of fabric if you ordered more than 8 yards. I went in to a Joann's store to check out the velvet and noticed the variation in sheen between the different bolts there also. Some were very black and some had an almost blue sheen to them, yet they all had the same SKU number. You also need to be careful about how much you actually stretch the fabric when applying it, If you have too much stretch it will look lighter. It really is a pain to work with and appears to be a crap shoot whether the fabric looks the same.

I noticed you mentioned that. Mine came from a single bolt and looks black enough to keep me satisfied. I only needed 2 yards to make the CIH masking.

The new GOM looks great. And I'm glad to hear it was an easier process, though you seem to have had enough practice to do it a few more times .
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post #371 of 1093 Old 11-15-2011, 06:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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I noticed you mentioned that. Mine came from a single bolt and looks black enough to keep me satisfied. I only needed 2 yards to make the CIH masking.

The new GOM looks great. And I'm glad to hear it was an easier process, though you seem to have had enough practice to do it a few more times .

The velvet would be fine for a small area like that. I plan on doing velvet around the screen area. The last few panels have gone up without a hitch, I am getting much faster at it now I've spent so much time doing it. Those huge MDF panels do not seem so heavy anymore.
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post #372 of 1093 Old 11-15-2011, 02:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Getting ready to apply fabric to the last panel.

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post #373 of 1093 Old 11-15-2011, 02:57 PM - Thread Starter
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All the fibers run for last panel.

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post #374 of 1093 Old 11-15-2011, 02:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Ceiling panels all installed.

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post #375 of 1093 Old 11-15-2011, 03:01 PM
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I know I'm late to the party but ur build is looking awesome! I can't wait to see it continue to come together!

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post #376 of 1093 Old 11-15-2011, 03:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Running all the fibers into the illuminator was literally a big pain in the neck (and back). Standing on a ladder for hours with your hands above your head was quite exhausting.

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post #377 of 1093 Old 11-15-2011, 03:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Star ceiling is completed. This project was a huge pain but now that it is up it has all been worth it. I figure that with the issues I had with the first fabric and having to re-do quite a bit of work, this project took me close to 100 hours. I hope to never have to do another one of these again, but If I did I could probably cut that down to 40-50 hours or so.

Here are some shots of the stars taken with my little point and shoot. The photos do not really do it justice.



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post #378 of 1093 Old 11-15-2011, 03:39 PM
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Nice job,..I realize the camera doesn't even come close, but what you can see is fine and I'm sure the entire thing is great. I've never considered anything like that, but I'll tell you, I'd bet it elicits a very pleasant effect.

Congrats, that's a significant amount of work.

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post #379 of 1093 Old 11-15-2011, 04:06 PM
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Looks kick ass in the picture, and I'm sure kick-assier in person. Congratulations on grinding through it and reaching that milestone!
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post #380 of 1093 Old 11-15-2011, 06:45 PM
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Looks really good. Nice work.

Question for you. In the photos, it looks like some of the lights are brighter than others. Is that what is actually happening or is that just the photo?

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Is it solipsistic in here, or is it just me?
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post #381 of 1093 Old 11-15-2011, 09:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Looks really good. Nice work.

Question for you. In the photos, it looks like some of the lights are brighter than others. Is that what is actually happening or is that just the photo?

There is a lot of variation in the brightness of the stars. On the Fosi illuminator there are two sections to place fibers. The constellation stars are brighter and twinkle with the effect of the twinkle wheel. The milky way stars are much dimmer and do not twinkle. Within each section there is a window with a filters that provides further variation in the stars. It is basically a window with a bunch of stacked filters in various shapes and shades. With the animation and the variation it provides a very nice effect. Before I had the illluminator hooked up I tested it out with a bright flashlight to get an idea of what it would look like. Everything looks much more realistic through the FOSI illuminator. FOSI is expensive but they really do know how to make it look realistic. Very happy with the results.

I was quite exhausted after the whole process was done so I just sat back and listened to music and enjoyed the stars.
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post #382 of 1093 Old 11-15-2011, 09:45 PM - Thread Starter
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One more comment on the star ceiling. I'm glad that I worked up the delay mechanism for the shooting star. The shooting stars probably go off every 10-15 minutes or so. They go off rarely enough that it does not become repetitive, but still often enough that they are still noticeable. The shooting star effect is subtle. Sometimes you just catch a glimpse of one out of the corner of your eye and look up and barely catch a bit of it. If your not watching closely they are easy to miss.

My kids were checking out the ceiling and watching for the stars. Being easily distracted like kids are, they would not be paying attention and I would tell them "there it is" and they would still miss it. I took my kids up in the mountains last summer during the meteor shower and they missed most of those too, so I guess it is pretty realistic in that respect
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post #383 of 1093 Old 11-15-2011, 09:57 PM - Thread Starter
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One additional thing I could have done to make the job easier is to leave more fiber to work with at the illuminator end. While I made the fibers long enough I had fibers coming from two directions and things started to get tangled up in a hurry. At first I just held the panel for the fibers down low, but as things progressed I started running out of room so I had to mount the panel near to the illuminator (that's what the wood in front of the illuminator was for). It was much more difficult and painful to run the sometimes too short fibers.

When you have 1000 fibers or so each additional foot does cost some money though. It is about $60-$70 in fiber for each foot away from the edge of the starfield you go so it does get expensive in a hurry. I would have gladly paid $70 for an extra foot to work with though.

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post #384 of 1093 Old 11-16-2011, 06:38 AM
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I go to Cedia each year and of the half dozen star ceiling companies fosi I think has one of the best designed systems out there if not the best. Your timing also sounds perfect. At first people may want to 'just see it' over and over but after a while looking up at just the right time and seeing something that happens rarely will become much more enjoyable.

Your room is coming along really well, and almost there! I can't wait to see what it looks like when complete and see what the audio performance is like. You have quite the amazing setup.
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post #385 of 1093 Old 11-16-2011, 06:56 AM
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Yeah now you have me interested in FOSI. I had some systems already picked out but yours is definitely awesome and beautiful with the pics that don't do it justice I'm sure.

Skyrun Cinema Build-Speakers done and positioned. 7/2 THTLP done. Fabric Frames going on now.

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post #386 of 1093 Old 11-16-2011, 08:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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I go to Cedia each year and of the half dozen star ceiling companies fosi I think has one of the best designed systems out there if not the best. Your timing also sounds perfect. At first people may want to 'just see it' over and over but after a while looking up at just the right time and seeing something that happens rarely will become much more enjoyable.

Your room is coming along really well, and almost there! I can't wait to see what it looks like when complete and see what the audio performance is like. You have quite the amazing setup.

Thanks distoga - you can come check it out any time. I still want to make it out your way and check your theater out sometime.
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post #387 of 1093 Old 11-16-2011, 05:51 PM
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First of all congrats on getting your star ceiling up it looks great. I went back a couple of pages and read what was happening and it reminded me of my nightmare install with the FOSI system. If something could go wrong it did... I would not wish it on anyone, but I have to agree that once it is done it looks awesome. I like that it actually resembles the northern hemisphere night with all of the constellations and milkyway. I did not know that you could use fabric with FOSI. He had me paint my MDF boards which was another issue.

Either way nice job!

Jim
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post #388 of 1093 Old 11-19-2011, 11:05 PM - Thread Starter
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I started putting up the fronts on the soffits. The soffits will be bass traps so I built frames so sound can enter through the front of the soffit. The bottom will also have acoustically transparent panels.

The panels were cut out of MDF.



Panels primed and ready to be covered in fabric.


Test fit all the panels in place on soffit.

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post #389 of 1093 Old 11-19-2011, 11:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Panels covered in fabric and mounted on soffit.





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post #390 of 1093 Old 11-20-2011, 06:48 AM
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Did you use finish nails to attach the soffit panels? Your theater is looking great.

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