Desert Sunset Theater Build - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 1093 Old 02-11-2011, 08:54 AM - Thread Starter
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 Current Status of Room

















Thread Index:
1. Planning start
2. Infinite Baffle Subwoofer Manifolds start / finish
3. Infinite Baffle Chamber start / finish
4. Framing: start / finish
5. HVAC: start
6. Drywall: start / finish
7. Soundproof Door: start
8. Soffit: start
9. Subfloor (Delta-FL) start
11. Stage: start / finish
12. Star Ceiling: start / finish
13. Light Tray: start
14. Columns: start


Gear:

Projector: JVC RS45
Screen: DIY 130" CIH 2.4:1 Acoustically Transparent Seymour Centerstage HD
Speakers: PBN Audio EPS, PBN Custom EPS Center, PBN Monitor
Subs: DIY Infinite Baffle 4x18" drivers 1500 watts
Amps: Sierra Audio Whitney, Rotel RMB1095, Berhinger EP4000 (Subs) (2x) Buttkicker BKA1000
Pre/Pro: Integra DTC-9.8, Aragon Soundstage
Sub EQ: Behringer Feedback Destroyer
Blu Ray Player: Oppo BDP-93
Music Server: Squeezebox - Music Hall DacMagic - Might be upgrading to Benchmark Dac1
Other: Buttkicker LFE, Grafik Eye lighting control, PS3, Furman F1000 UPS for projector, Belkin PF60 for non 12v switching.


* Original Post *

After many years I now have a good space for a dedicated home theater / listening room. In my previous houses there was never enough room or a good space for a dedicated theater. We added on to our last house and made a nice spot for a dedicated theater, but we had decided to move before my dream theater became a reality.

I've only been in the house a few months, the entire basement is unfinished, and I've been finishing off some other rooms downstairs so that I can focus on the theater. While I've been working on the basement, I have started planning the theater room in my mind and on paper and thought it was time to get a build thread up to ask questions.

I'll start off by listing what I have to work with and some wants / needs / goals for the theater.

I have a pretty decent space - The space is a basement space with concrete walls on 3 of the 4 sides. Ceilings are 8'8”. The room is 15'6” wide by roughly 30 long - I'll take up 4 feet of length at one end for an Infinite Baffle subwoofer chamber. Equipment will be located in my utility room that is just off the back of the theater. I have attached a preliminary plan with my room dimensions.

- For sound isolation, I plan to do a room within a room construction, Double Drywall / Green Glue, Isolation of HVAC - (edit - Ended up using a triple layer with OSB - GG - DW- GG- DW)

- Infinite Baffle Subwoofer (4 fi IB18's) - This is something I have wanted for a long time but never had a room where it would work.

- Fiber Optic Star Ceiling (Used FOSI for star ceiling)

- Grafik Eye controlled lighting – (I am going to try two rope lights in a soffit around the star ceiling – I am going to have an Orange or amber light and a blue light – My goal is to try and replicate a sunset with the lighting– hence the theater name.

- 130” diag scope 2.40 screen (10 ft wide) – I may try an automated masking system.

- Initially planning for 5.1 only – will prewire for other possibilities.

You may notice on the plan that I seem to have an extra set of speakers. I do have pair of tower speakers that I love that I do not want to bury behind a screen and need room to breathe. Using these is going to limit my screen size. I will be using this room for a lot of 2 channel music listening, and also multichannel audio (SACD, DVD-A). I enjoy both movies and music, but sound quality is much more important to me in Music than in movies. (I do want good performance with both though) I'm thinking of possibly having LCR's behind the screen, and using the towers for music listening only – I may consider some type of ball bearing sled in the floor to move the speakers away from the walls for music and put them close to the walls and out of the way for movies. I do like to fiddle with positioning the speakers so I'm not sure how well this solution will work.

I started a thread discussing the tower speakers. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...732&highlight= It may be a compromise, but I think I can make it work. If it absolutely does not work, I'll still have planned for speakers behind the screen.



With the current floorplan – I am already considering making the following changes – Moving false wall out further – Not sure if the space I have for false wall behind screen is big enough. 2 rows of 3 seats instead of 4 in back row. I like symmetry and the 4 row seat my look funny.

One other thing I'm wondering about is rear subwoofers – I know Moggie (old vic) planned for this and am wondering if this will help a great deal. I do have some extra DIY subwoofers that I built that could go in the back, but they are big and I like the idea of a stealthy subwoofer.

I'll try to get some pictures up of the space I'm working with. Been using it as a work area for the rest of the basement, so it is full of tools and stuff right now.


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post #2 of 1093 Old 02-12-2011, 08:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Here are some photos of the space I am working with.



This HVAC supplies the floor above - This will have to be removed.



I'm also going to have to work out some sort of access to the cleanouts on these drains.



equipment room will be where the electrical panel is. The panel only has a few slots left so I will be installing a 100A subpanel.
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post #3 of 1093 Old 02-12-2011, 07:23 PM
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Looks like a great room for your HT.
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post #4 of 1093 Old 02-13-2011, 07:58 PM
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From the looks of it your panel looks to be a thirty-forty. What size is it? I highly doubt needing a subpanel for your theater. FWIW I am a electrician that lives in salt lake. Looks like fun
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post #5 of 1093 Old 02-13-2011, 09:32 PM - Thread Starter
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The panel is a 200A I believe. I only have one slot remaining in the panel. There are quite a few doubled up breakers already. I'm surprised at how inefficient they were when this house was built in regards to electrical. I have few things like my entry chandelier that are on their own circuit. The panel should have been more than sufficient, but many of the circuits are under utilized.
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post #6 of 1093 Old 02-13-2011, 09:36 PM - Thread Starter
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One other thing with the electrical that is strange is my entire 3 car garage only has 1-15 amp circuit with 2 outlets in the entire garage. I had some workers here grinding granite for a fireplace surround and they kept flipping the breaker - I had to run an extension cord from the laundry to give them power. Some of my sub-panel will go to the Garage for additional circuits and a 220 circuit.
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post #7 of 1093 Old 02-14-2011, 10:26 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm planning out my framing and have a question - I am going to run 2x8 or 2x6 joists in between my current floor joists. However this is not possible for the last 4 feet of my room (the infinite baffle chamber) because some of the joists run perpendicular to the others and are hanging from a beam. The photo below shows what I am talking about.

I'm looking for ideas to isolate this portion of the room from the ceiling above. I know one option is to use rsic clips for this portion of the ceiling. What I was thinking I could do is have 3/4" plywood - 1" below the ceiling resting on the walls - I would mount the drywall to the ply - This would give me an additional damped layer which give even more low frequency sound isolation and the drywall should have plenty of support with only a little over 3' of span. I tried to show what I was thinking in the diagram below the picture. Is there a better option I am not seeing or problems with this approach? (other thicknesses of materials for flex etc?)



Here is the diagram showing what I'm currently thinking.

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post #8 of 1093 Old 02-14-2011, 12:44 PM
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That's a nice space, looking forward to seeing the outcome. Is there anything special above that 4ft IB section that would have caused them to run the joists differently?
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post #9 of 1093 Old 02-14-2011, 07:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Not that I am aware of - I think they ordered 20 foot joists for the basement, and I think this was a way of utilizing the 5 foot sections that were cut off.

There is no bearing wall or anything above the doubled up joists.
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post #10 of 1093 Old 02-15-2011, 06:23 PM
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You may think its weird that the front entry has its own circuit but it is becoming more standard. Some chandeliers take a whole circuit so it is better for the electrician to cover his a$$. You never know what the homeowners will pick out for fixtures.If your place is almost out of breaker space that would be a good thing with more home runs being pulled. Instead of overloading circuits or possibly being close to overloading.
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post #11 of 1093 Old 02-18-2011, 11:58 AM
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I'm curious about the infinite baffle... I'll have to keep an eye out to see how that is built and works.

Frames and electricians in Utah make more shortcuts than I could have ever guessed. There was 400amp available to residents and if I count up all the breakers I'm at 680 (basement not finished) and there's 200 coming into my house. I also had family over one time and had most all the lights on in the house and it tripped one of the circuit breakers... I have control4 now so lights don't usually go over 60%-80% and haven't had a problem since. I'm helping a friend frame his basement and again we're dealing with time/cost saving things Ivory did on his home and it's frustrating.

Anyway, looking good! I'm excited to see your theater progress.
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post #12 of 1093 Old 02-18-2011, 03:30 PM - Thread Starter
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distoga - Im excited about the infintie baffle - I've wanted to do one for a long time. I already have the drivers and was really surprised when they came - they look really impressive.

My home was built by Ivory. I never thought I would buy an Ivory home but I'm actually surprised by the quality of the construction in regards to framing and such - at least from what I can see it is pretty good. My only issue is with the generic mass produced style interior (which I am working to change).

In regards to your electrical - I'm no electrician, but it is perfectly acceptable to have the breakers total much more than the panel rating - Not everything is going to be operating at the same time. Not sure if there is any set any limit, but mine is similar to yours. There would never be a need for 30 circuits in a 200 amp panel if you could only go up to a combined 200 A rating for all panels. My AC units, Wall Oven and Dryer combined total more than the 200 Amp rating of the panel.
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post #13 of 1093 Old 02-18-2011, 04:11 PM - Thread Starter
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By the way here is a photo of one of the drivers I'm using for the Infinite baffle - the pictures really do not do a good job of showing how big these are - Those boxes that the woofer is sitting on each contain a 5 gallon bucket.

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post #14 of 1093 Old 02-18-2011, 06:33 PM
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show off, heh heh

Current Projects:
IN PROGRESS (80%) - Building 3D Theater room.
IN PROGRESS (30%) - Building Lounge/Hallway Area.
IN PROGRESS (15%) - Building Home LAN (4 PCs).
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ON HOLD - Building Simulation Room (Eyefinity).
ON HOLD - Building Theater room (Sim2 HT380, 2.35 14ft wide).
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post #15 of 1093 Old 02-19-2011, 06:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stockmonkey2000 View Post

I'm looking for ideas to isolate this portion of the room from the ceiling above. I know one option is to use rsic clips for this portion of the ceiling. What I was thinking I could do is have 3/4" plywood - 1" below the ceiling resting on the walls - I would mount the drywall to the ply - This would give me an additional damped layer which give even more low frequency sound isolation and the drywall should have plenty of support with only a little over 3' of span. I tried to show what I was thinking in the diagram below the picture. Is there a better option I am not seeing or problems with this approach? (other thicknesses of materials for flex etc?)


Here is the diagram showing what I'm currently thinking.


I would build the 3 walls for the chamber short and then use 2x4's for seperate joists and tie into the baffle wall to span the 3+ ft.

On a side note.....Since I didnt see anything in your drawing or in your pictures. If your in a cold climate, I would consider polystyrene for a vapor barrier on the exterior walls and if not done already I would treat my Rim Joist before I build and lost access.

My Basement HT Construction ~ Faster than the speed of Dark

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post #16 of 1093 Old 02-19-2011, 06:47 AM
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Can you just use a lower ceiling in the IB chamber and drop the ceiling joists below the floor joists above? That funky floor framing must be there for a reason. Does the room above have a bay window or fireplace that's cantilevered out beyond the concrete basement wall?

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post #17 of 1093 Old 02-19-2011, 07:56 AM - Thread Starter
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I probably could get away with dropping the ceiling, but it will reduce the volume of the chamber. The larger the volume the better. Right now I am a bit smaller than the theoretical ideal volume. I figured 3/4 plywood would be plenty strong to support the ceiling and may even provide some flex to help with low frequency absorption. Either way I'm sure would be fine - I wouldn't mind the extra volume.
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post #18 of 1093 Old 02-24-2011, 07:34 AM - Thread Starter
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I've still been working on other parts of the basement, but I did get a bit done on the theater - I pulled out the insulation and filled all the wiring and HVAC holes going through the floor above. Found a nice hole to the outside that was clearly being used by mice. Good to get that one sealed up.



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post #19 of 1093 Old 02-24-2011, 07:39 AM - Thread Starter
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I also got started on the IB sub boxes. I needed to get these done early because I plan on finishing off the IB chamber first since the ceiling of the chamber will not tie in with the rest of the ceiling. I put together the boxes with a biscuit joiner. This is my first time using the joiner and it sure is a handy tool. Took me a while to get it right and I messed up on a few but it worked nicely.

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post #20 of 1093 Old 02-24-2011, 07:44 AM - Thread Starter
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I made the IB boxes a bit larger than they needed to be. This is the first layer, and there will be another layer of ply on these. The final dimensions will be 25.5" by 24" by 28" with the driver on the 25" side. Rumor is that Fi is apparently working on a 22" IB driver and I wanted to make sure those would fit in case I want to upgrade later.



Here is the first box all glued up.

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post #21 of 1093 Old 02-24-2011, 12:17 PM - Thread Starter
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By the way petew - you were right on the floor joists - when I pulled out the insulation I saw that the framing was done that way to cantilever the fireplace beyond the foundation. Not sure why I didn't notice that before.
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post #22 of 1093 Old 02-25-2011, 06:47 AM - Thread Starter
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post #23 of 1093 Old 02-26-2011, 07:05 PM - Thread Starter
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I have a question related to projector placement and was hoping to get some answers here - I can make another post in another forum if I do not get answers here - While most of my wiring will be inside the sheetrock envelope, i thought I would run conduit to the projector and also work out some hot air removal. So I need to decide where the projector is going to go. The only problem is, I do not know right now which projector I will choose - I'm sure there will be lots of new options this fall or later when it comes time to install the projector. Is there a good general location for projector placement?

My plan is to have a 130" diag (120 " wide) scope screen.
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post #24 of 1093 Old 02-26-2011, 09:40 PM
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Can't answer that question for you, but one thing you might want to consider is to move the seating up a tad and have a bar top behind the second row of seats with some bar stools. Not only will it add seating for 4 if needed, but it's a great place to eat without needing much space. It's the main thing I wish I had in my theater and you have plenty of depth to pull it off.

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post #25 of 1093 Old 02-26-2011, 10:30 PM - Thread Starter
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I have considered the bar. My biggest worry is interfering with the surround speakers. I wouldn't mind the extra seating, but sound quality is my first priority. If it is not going to compromise my sound quality I may consider that
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post #26 of 1093 Old 02-27-2011, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stockmonkey2000 View Post

I have a question related to projector placement and was hoping to get some answers here - I can make another post in another forum if I do not get answers here - While most of my wiring will be inside the sheetrock envelope, i thought I would run conduit to the projector and also work out some hot air removal. So I need to decide where the projector is going to go. The only problem is, I do not know right now which projector I will choose - I'm sure there will be lots of new options this fall or later when it comes time to install the projector. Is there a good general location for projector placement?

My plan is to have a 130" diag (120 " wide) scope screen.

I played around a bit with the latest projectors of the time at projector central .com. The biggest thing to decide is if you're learning towards dlp, lcd, or sxrd. If you're a DLP guy then those throw ratios are always longer, though they're getting better. Also the closer the projector is placed to the screen (less throw range used) the brighter and usually more evenly focused the picture will be. For my room length, I knew DLP that I really liked would be tough to find one with a shorter throw ratio so I knew I'd end up with an LCD. I looked up a bunch of best LCD projectors and found the range they all worked in and based my location on that.

Also for the bar, my original design had one and I was worried about fr issues it could create. In the end I just couldn't fit it with where the cement riser was and how that affected the back row, so in the end I didn't put it in I don't miss it either like I thought I would. Unless you throw huge parties with food and more guests than will fit your theater I don't see a need (at least for myself) for the bar. But that's just what I found for myself.
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post #27 of 1093 Old 02-27-2011, 10:31 AM
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Another thing to consider, if you find there's a certain popular range, say 14'-20' and you're leaning towards a projector that's 20', you could still put the conduit popout hole at 17' or 18' and give yourself a little wiggle room in either direction in case you change your projector some time in the future.

Also, just make sure you get black wires of course (mono price is a great place). With the way my molding was done, black ceiling, and down lighting you can only see the wires if you're standing in a 2'x16' area and consciously decide to look for them, and only AV guys do that and there's no stopping us... So I'd just recommend to side on functionality instead of looks, just from my experience.
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post #28 of 1093 Old 02-28-2011, 07:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks distoga - I guess I'll get over to Projector Central and try to figure out which way I'm going - If I were choosing a PJ today I'd probably go with the JVC DLA-HD250, but who knows what will be around a year or so from now.
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post #29 of 1093 Old 02-28-2011, 02:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Looks like everything I'm interested in right now has a optimum throw distance of about 18' so that looks like a good spot. Thanks - I did not know about that calculator at Projectorcentral.
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post #30 of 1093 Old 02-28-2011, 10:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stockmonkey2000 View Post

Looks like everything I'm interested in right now has a optimum throw distance of about 18' so that looks like a good spot. Thanks - I did not know about that calculator at Projectorcentral.

Yeah, that calculator is a real help, especially with the ability to set various aspect ratios and then play around with the slides for adjusting if the lens zoom amount to find the range the projector can be placed in and still get the image width you want. I'm sure you realized this but the calculations are from the front of the lens, and I made sure I was at least 1' away from the closest distance limit just in case something was off somehow (maybe the manufacturer did something dumb like give calculations based on the lamp location at the back of the projector). Another tip I'd say is if you do have a floating ceiling like it appears you do, I'd never trust a projector molly bolted on just sheetrock so I ran two 10' 2/10 beams both directions from where I calculated the ideal spot for my projector. I went double the width because some projectors don't mount in the exact center and if one day I change to a projector that doesn't have the lens in line with the mounting holes I still have the option of moving the mounting arm forward, back, or up to 8" to either side and attach it again and not have to worry about the new location not being strong enough to hold the projector... You might also want to consider now where you'll bolt the safety wire to the projector (if the projector has one) for if the mount fails or there is user error on the mounting bracket and the projector falls, possibly during "The big one"
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