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post #31 of 80 Old 07-17-2011, 01:35 AM
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Look at Procella or Gedlee or Seaton......I like Adam Audio too

Danley for subs

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post #32 of 80 Old 07-17-2011, 07:11 AM
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Danley makes full range speakers too.
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post #33 of 80 Old 07-22-2011, 08:09 PM - Thread Starter
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At this point, with only the bass trap materials in place and the intrinsic shape of the room, there is very little slap echo present. Human voices in the room are very intelligible from across the room. I haven't done any formal testing or put in any of speakers yet, but so far this is a good start for me.

The room itself is very quiet with all the mass loaded vinly and foam insulation around the room. Outdoor noise is basically inaudible. The doors to the room aren't on yet but they will have a diffusion grating carved into them modeled after RPG "flutter free" products. Once the doors are on, I can test for the ambient noise level in the room itself.

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post #34 of 80 Old 11-02-2011, 02:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Attachment 226901

Here is a picture of the doors we built for behind the sitting position. Cost 2400 bucks to have custom built. Outside of the doors is exactly same trim and wood as the rest of our house doors.
LL

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post #35 of 80 Old 11-02-2011, 02:53 PM - Thread Starter
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New pictures of progress:



Attachment 226902



Attachment 226903

Will have more pics of massive effort in incorporating diffusion surfaces and bass trap materials in the niches.

Acoustics in terms of simple voice clarity across the room is simply awesome
LL
LL

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post #36 of 80 Old 11-02-2011, 02:55 PM
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Looks great - are you going to stain or paint it?

Why diffusion behind the listener? Assume that's in the middle of the room?

"common" wisdom is to have absorption in the middle of the rear wall (per Toole) and diffusers towards the comers

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post #37 of 80 Old 11-02-2011, 02:58 PM
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Also - did you make any decisions on speakers?

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post #38 of 80 Old 11-02-2011, 03:36 PM
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Your room looks amazing. The detail work is very nice.
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post #39 of 80 Old 11-03-2011, 09:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Since I have about 4 more months to move in, i am reserving judgement on floor standing main and center speakers.

Surrounds are all bg-radia ribbon line source in walls which i paid about 5500 for. The set usually retails for 17000 so i didnt want to pass up this deal. Honestly I am not as concerned about movies sounding great compared to music.

I am considering the paradigm sub2 in this overall system as well.

I like the sound of focal utopia scalas (pricey) and b&w diamond 800 or 802 for both sound and aesthetics. Earlier in the thread some posters were commenting on the 14-16 foot seating position and poor frequency response curves at this distance for 1" done tweeters. So still debating what to do...

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post #40 of 80 Old 11-08-2011, 06:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elill View Post

Looks great - are you going to stain or paint it?

Why diffusion behind the listener? Assume that's in the middle of the room?

"common" wisdom is to have absorption in the middle of the rear wall (per Toole) and diffusers towards the comers

The real traps website has a comment suggesting diffusion behind listening position in large rooms. I think my room would be considered large. I think my diffusion doors are going to look nice as well. New pics tomorrow.

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post #41 of 80 Old 11-08-2011, 06:47 PM - Thread Starter
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more pics
LL
LL

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post #42 of 80 Old 11-08-2011, 07:38 PM
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Those doors are beautiful! Nice choice!
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post #43 of 80 Old 11-10-2011, 03:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jskibo View Post

Those doors are beautiful! Nice choice!

Actually i had them custom made per my design. I duplicated a flutter-free diffusing surface and placed the cut pieces into the door in the configuration you see.

Attachment 227691

Check out the closeup. They cost me 2400 to have made by a door maker locally. They are nearly soundproof with mitred edges where the two doors come together and made with knotty alder wood so the outside surface will match the rest of my house.

They act as a diffusing surface behind the listening position
LL

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post #44 of 80 Old 11-10-2011, 03:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Some more images with the convex diffusers in many of the niches.

Attachment 227694



Attachment 227695



Attachment 227696
LL
LL
LL

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post #45 of 80 Old 11-10-2011, 04:31 PM
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holy crap.... in a good way
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post #46 of 80 Old 11-10-2011, 05:12 PM
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Holy Batman! This is one detailed build. This must have taken forever to do all that finished work. I can't wait to see it come together. Thanks for sharing.
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post #47 of 80 Old 11-10-2011, 07:51 PM - Thread Starter
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All of those niches will be covered in acoustic fabric and a decorative lattice frame made in a moroccan pattern. My point is... You wont actually see all the ugliness of the diffusers. I cant wait to see how it will look stained and after the stone work under the wood area.

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post #48 of 80 Old 11-10-2011, 07:54 PM
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This is going to be epic! Cant wait to see the final product!

No subwoofer I've heard has been able to produce the bass I've experienced in the Corps!

Must..stop...buying...every bluray release...
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post #49 of 80 Old 11-15-2011, 04:30 AM
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One Heck of a room!!! Reminiscent of a cathedral.

I think you got a steal on the double doors @ 2400, I've paid alot more for less work on custom doors in the past.

looking forward to additional updates.

Brad

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post #50 of 80 Old 11-15-2011, 06:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blazar View Post

I am considering the paradigm sub2 in this overall system as well.

Wow!
The attention to detail regarding the textural aspects of the space are phenomenal! Very nice, visually interesting, many good choices. .

Please, with all due respect, I'd question your speaker choices. Good luck with determining which avenue to pursue regarding mains,...I think you were right to hold off and decide. There is so much personal preference, even regarding mains that are adequately up to the performance task. That said, good luck with your choices for a room that big,...I'd consider Procella, Seaton, Pro audio Technology. I've heard these choices, and they clearly would hit your performance goals, and they are of superb quality.

Now, regarding a subwoofer system; I'd recommend a multi-sub approach, as the response smoothing achievable is highly preferred. Also, I've not heard the Paradigm sub, but for the same price, you could have three Seaton Submersives. According to Paradigm's specs, the Sub2 is down 14db by 10hz. The Submersive is designed to possess superior extension. Oftentimes, owners achieve flat response into the single digits in room. The are multiple large high-end builds, similar in scope and size to yours, which implement a multiple Seaton Submersive subwoofer approach.

Smooth and extended response over as wide a listening area as possible, is the hall mark of a multiple sub system. Even if you go with the Paradigm Sub2, you would have a higher degree of success by utilizing multiples, thus minimizing room effects, etc.



Good luck, and incredible build

------------------------------------
Flat, Deep, Clean, Linear, and Loud
------------------------------------
Active 16.8kw, 7.3 system
(3)Seaton Cat12C up front, (4)QSC K8 sides/rears
(2)Seaton SubM-HP, (4)18" IB
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post #51 of 80 Old 11-15-2011, 01:03 PM - Thread Starter
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My bg radia subs are in wall and very musical down to around 30hz big. There are 4 subs wired in two channels so you can get a very good linear response with eq for the peaks.

The additional sub(s) would be for truly subterranean bass.

For main speakes, aesthetics is also a concern (they wont be hidden).

My brother has 802d across the street so i will likely actually test those first to see what they do and identify their limitations in this large room before deciding on the tweeter type needed for the room size.

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post #52 of 80 Old 11-15-2011, 04:42 PM
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Curious how quiet (isolated) you'll find it

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post #53 of 80 Old 11-15-2011, 04:51 PM
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I think Procella would do you and your room a real treat. We can custom finish those in our own millwork shop.

The new P860's -3dB at 40Hz and 20kHz, 128 dB continuous and 95dB at 1w/1m., 4x700w. No strain in a room of that size.

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post #54 of 80 Old 01-09-2012, 04:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Erskine View Post

I think Procella would do you and your room a real treat. We can custom finish those in our own millwork shop.

The new P860's -3dB at 40Hz and 20kHz, 128 dB continuous and 95dB at 1w/1m., 4x700w. No strain in a room of that size.

By custom finish, were you implying something particularly amazing/cool? Do you have some in house prototypes of some great cabinet form factors?

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post #55 of 80 Old 01-09-2012, 06:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blazar View Post

Actually i had them custom made per my design. I duplicated a flutter-free diffusing surface and placed the cut pieces into the door in the configuration you see.

Attachment 227691

Check out the closeup. They cost me 2400 to have made by a door maker locally. They are nearly soundproof with mitred edges where the two doors come together and made with knotty alder wood so the outside surface will match the rest of my house.

They act as a diffusing surface behind the listening position

blazar,
a quick read of the QRDude Technical Guide may be of assistance (even if you're not building QRDs):
http://www.subwoofer-builder.com/qrd.htm

sound has size. such small indentations will only be seen by high freq content that has small wavelengths (and even less when angle of incidence is non-normal). mid-band diffusion is what's important. also, as indicated by others in this thread, randomly repeating such surfaces is not recommended without modeling. AFMG Reflex is available for free 30-day trial to see how your convex/concave/repeated patterns/etc will behave based on frequency. i would also take a moment to understand the differences between a scatterer and a diffuser (spatial/temporal dispersion). be mindful of applying 'treatments' or 'diffusers' of which are relevant to HF content only...

good luck !
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post #56 of 80 Old 01-09-2012, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blazar View Post

All of those niches will be covered in acoustic fabric and a decorative lattice frame made in a moroccan pattern. My point is... You wont actually see all the ugliness of the diffusers. I cant wait to see how it will look stained and after the stone work under the wood area.

are you interested in turning your diffusers into absorbers??
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post #57 of 80 Old 01-09-2012, 03:49 PM - Thread Starter
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The room is very versatile actually. I can do diffusion and absorption anywhere needed but with the option of covering the niches with acoustically transparent fabric. If the fabric creates too much absorption, i can simply remove the panels.

Right now, acoustics in the room (without formal testing since speakers are not in) are outstanding. Voice clarity is awesome. There is a lot of area with bass trapping in the corner niches and along all the top of the room so i cant wait to see my initial bass curves before equalization. The 4 subs should help too.

It sounds much better than my existing cheap home theater in which all i did was absorption and bass trapping.

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post #58 of 80 Old 01-09-2012, 06:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by localhost127 View Post

blazar,
a quick read of the QRDude Technical Guide may be of assistance (even if you're not building QRDs):
http://www.subwoofer-builder.com/qrd.htm

sound has size. such small indentations will only be seen by high freq content that has small wavelengths (and even less when angle of incidence is non-normal). mid-band diffusion is what's important. also, as indicated by others in this thread, randomly repeating such surfaces is not recommended without modeling. AFMG Reflex is available for free 30-day trial to see how your convex/concave/repeated patterns/etc will behave based on frequency. i would also take a moment to understand the differences between a scatterer and a diffuser (spatial/temporal dispersion). be mindful of applying 'treatments' or 'diffusers' of which are relevant to HF content only...

good luck !

http://www.rpginc.com/products/flutterfree/index.htm

this is the site with the diffusion graphs for the material that I used on the doors. Do you think this would be bad behind the listening position necessarily?

Well I will be able to provide some feedback to you guys eventually. I can cover the doors with wood boards and see how it sounds or cover it with absorption and test it again.

With the doors closed, my immediate impression is that voices carry VERY nicely in the room. You can hear a pin drop at 22 feet since the diffusion doesn't suck the energy out of the room like absorption usually would.

I can further modify things by putting in convex surfaces in the arches between the beams.

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post #59 of 80 Old 01-09-2012, 07:52 PM
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Quote:
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[url]Do you think this would be bad behind the listening position necessarily?

I'd suggest it wont hurt, but wont do much good either, as I said, I'd have banged some absorption on it/them.....but then again I'd never use a double door....seperate issue

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post #60 of 80 Old 01-10-2012, 04:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elill View Post


I'd suggest it wont hurt, but wont do much good either, as I said, I'd have banged some absorption on it/them.....but then again I'd never use a double door....seperate issue

Specially made double doors that interlock at the edges to prevent sound leak in and out. They are over 2 inches thick also which helps.

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