"Silence is Golden" Theater - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 18 Old 03-22-2011, 10:57 PM - Thread Starter
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I have a small spare bedroom ~11x12.5 to make the best of. Here are a couple of sketch ups for the two possible orientations. Which would you choose and why?

Equipment:
Danley Sound Labs SH-95s x 3 - WAY overkill for this room, but they used to be in a 35' long non-dedicated room. These will likely be swapped for JBLs.
Klipsch THX Ultra 2 KS535S x 4
DIY 24" wide THT subs x 2 (not sure how or where I'm going to fit these in the room yet)
Epik Pheonix 18" sub - This hasn't been plugged in since I got the THTs up and running, but I might give it a try again.
Panasonic AE4000 projector
Panasonic Blu-Ray Player
Screen TBD
Denon 4310 - Looking to get a couple of Emotiva XPA2s.
Crown K2 - Subs
Behringer DCX 2496 and DEQ 2496
Buttkicker LFE
PS3

Ignore the vertical line on the screen:


Advantages:
The wider room allows for 3 berklines somewhat comfortably. The left to right symmetry of the room should allow for some excellent stereo imaging. Sitting in the bare room in this spot just "seems" right for what that is worth.

Disadvantages:
Closet middle post is right behind the main listening position. I have a 4" absorber that I could put between my seat and this beam though. Front right main will be somewhat in the entry walk way and the screen will hang over that edge too. The projector will be in the room creating noise. I really like room to be as quiet as possible (budget permitting), thus the name of this thread. All other equipment will be in the adjacent room.




Advantages:
The projector will be in the adjacent room thus hopefully lowering the noise in the theater. Sitting a bit farther from the room HVAC supply (more on that issue later).

Disadvantages:
I would likely put the hanging closet doors (not shown) back in for this orientation to give the room more symmetry. I'm concerned about cutting a hole in the wall to the next room (an office with the heater for the house) for the projector. While it may be quieter generally, it may also be louder when the heater is running. Some kind of glass port could be used, but I'm not sure how expensive that may be or even if it would be effective. Also this may allow light in the room (the office has windows), which defeats the purpose of the dark theater.
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post #2 of 18 Old 03-23-2011, 09:42 AM
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Can you remove the closet? - seems like it would open up a lot of possibilities. If the closet needs to stay, I would definitely go with option 2- where will your speakers go in option 1 with the door there?

Either way that seems like a lot of stuff (especially the subs) to fit in that small of a room but there are a lot of great "small space" home theaters here.
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post #3 of 18 Old 03-23-2011, 11:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stockmonkey2000 View Post

Can you remove the closet? - seems like it would open up a lot of possibilities. If the closet needs to stay, I would definitely go with option 2- where will your speakers go in option 1 with the door there?

Either way that seems like a lot of stuff (especially the subs) to fit in that small of a room but there are a lot of great "small space" home theaters here.

The house is on the smaller side and very limited with respect to hanging space so it will probably have to stay. I am trying to do my best with what is available. Maybe I should have called it the "Shoehorn Theater".
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post #4 of 18 Old 03-23-2011, 12:51 PM
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I'm digging option one. It looks like your side speaker placement will be easier.

For the projector noise, you can build a hush box and vent it into the next room. Should be pretty quiet.

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post #5 of 18 Old 03-23-2011, 04:33 PM - Thread Starter
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This room only has one HVAC supply and no returns. I assume the air passing under the door is supposed to serve as a return. The big return for the house is down the hallway from this room. So my problem is that this room will not be comfortable for people to be in for long periods of time with the door closed and the room sealed up tight.

I have an HVAC guy coming out this weekend to give me an estimate to install a return in the ceiling. The distance from the return in the room to the main return in the hallway is only about 15'. This will be connected to the big return in the hallway. I told him that I wanted to use 8" lined ducting with a large return opening in the room to minimize air flow noise. How much should something like this cost?

I was also thinking of installing one of these: http://residential.fantech.net/resid...s/#FG%20Series
so that I could switch it on anytime without running the whole house fan. Would this be able to pull air from the return in the room if the room is sealed and the whole house fan is turned off? As you can see, I know zilch about HVAC.
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post #6 of 18 Old 03-23-2011, 04:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BllDo View Post

I'm digging option one. It looks like your side speaker placement will be easier.

For the projector noise, you can build a hush box and vent it into the next room. Should be pretty quiet.

Thanks. Yes, a hushbox will definitely be required if the projector is in the room.
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post #7 of 18 Old 03-27-2011, 04:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Well, I believe I have decided on option number one. By the way, I am selling my Danley SH-95s in the classified section if anyone wants some of the best speakers that money can buy. I need the cash right now, so unfortuntely these have to go.

I had the HVAC guy come out and he is recommended a 6" duct above the projector and another 6" duct on what will be the right side of the room (the supply is on the floor on the left). He quoted me ~$500 for this, but I have no idea what this should cost. I did explain that I want to keep sound out of the room and that the feet per min. of air flow needs to be very low. I think around 150FPM to virtually silence the returns. I'll have to build a hush box for the supply too.

I temporarily set up my Panasonic in the room and hung a white sheet for a screen to test out the size. The issue I'm concerned with is that the screen is just a bit too high to be comfortable. In order to have the speakers at ear level, the screen will have to be above that, but I might have to compromise and put the speakers a bit lower and angle them up. An AT screen may be an option later, but preferably I don't want the screen to be any closer to the seating position.

Also, I realized that my Berklines are too big for this room. It becomes very hard to get smaller additional seats in there if we have a group. So I am going to sell my Berklines (if you are in Northern CA and looking for a good deal on a set of 4 black, great condition Berklines shoot me a PM). So, now I have to find a sofa that will allow several guests to share if we want to get 4-6 people in there. I want something with a couple of reclining seats in the middle. Any recommendations?
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post #8 of 18 Old 04-12-2011, 08:56 AM - Thread Starter
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This past weekend I made some progress. I had an an electrician run 2 20A lines for the equipment rack in the adjacent room and 1 20A for theater room (for the powered sub).

I also had the HVAC guy come out and install a couple of air returns in the room, since it only had a supply. He ran a 10" heavily insulated duct from the house return and split it into two 8" returns for the room. One return is the main one for the room and the other has the flexible ducting running to above the projector. I built a hush box for the projector and the return draws air out the top of the hush box. The returns are absolutely silent. The supply (in the concrete slab floor) is what creates the most noise. I built a muffler out of MDF and lined it with foam to silence the supply. It is still audible, but is now very hard to hear.

With the AC and projector running the room is very quiet. I believe I can get 4 people (maybe 6) in there and be confident that the room will not get hot or stuffy during a 2 hour movie. My wife and I have watched a couple of movies in there already and the room doesn't get warm at all.

Pics to follow.
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post #9 of 18 Old 04-12-2011, 09:00 AM
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Very cool. Let's see some pics.

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post #10 of 18 Old 04-12-2011, 08:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Okay. Here is the work in progress. Lots more needs to be done. The room was white 2 weeks ago. I chose an "earthy" dark brown for the room.

The first image is the JBL LSR6332 on the kitchen table next the Danley SH-95.


Here are the 2 THTs finally getting primer and paint a year after they were built. I'm slow. I painted them the color of the room so if you look carefully in the photos below you will see them firing into the corners in what used to be the closet.


Front of room. How do you like my speaker stands?


Back of room. Notice the huge horn subs behind the seats. There are no localization issues since I have the Epik up front. The surrounds obviously haven't been mounted yet.


Hush box for projector.


Ducting to projector. I have to figure out a way to cover this up and still have the room be a functional bedroom when we sell the place in a few years.


My apparently very dusty equipment rack. It doesn't look this bad in person, I swear. Oh and the cheap Audiosource amp is for the 2nd zone (the kitchen).
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post #11 of 18 Old 04-12-2011, 08:07 PM - Thread Starter
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The Danley's and the Berklines are for sale. I need to make room for a sofa so I can get 4 people in the seats and possibly 2 on bean bags.
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post #12 of 18 Old 04-12-2011, 08:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Acoustics: I am trying out Toole's idea of fully reflective 1st reflection points. I really like what it does for the center channel. It definitely helps the center channel sound much larger. Contrary to popular belief, my experience is that dialog is easier to understand than when the 1st reflection points are absorbed. I need to do more testing with the L, and R to determine whether I will stay this way though. So far I am liking the sound.

I have 6 or more panels in the room, but they are all on the front wall or immediately next the the mains on the side walls plus the one panel to block the reflection off of the post immediately behind the main seating position. A couple are stradling the floor/wall corners immediately below the first reflection points as bass traps.

Initial measurements of the room with REW, showed a couple peaks in the bass, and the room sounds great after just two quick PEQ adjustments. The fantastic on and off axis response of the JBLs really shine here. I have a couple bumps to deal with in the mid-bass that I will use the DCX to clean up later. I will not be using Audyssey. My experience with Audyssey and high quality speakers like the Danleys and the JBLs, has not been great. It definitely sounds better without Audyssey.
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post #13 of 18 Old 12-20-2011, 07:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Updated Photos:

Behind the Screen:
The JBLs are surrounded by 4" thick acoustic absorbers to prevent SBIR.



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Screen Up:


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Seats and Platform 1:


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Seats and Platform 2:


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post #14 of 18 Old 12-20-2011, 07:35 PM - Thread Starter
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The platform was built this week and added. The theater is on a concrete slab so in order get some shake I have it floating about an inch above the carpet on rubber feet. The back corner is on a buttkicker that moves the platform. I plan to cover it with carpet at some point. It really adds to the experience!

The seats are way to big for the room so I am hoping to find something smaller. The THTs are the dark boxes behind the seats.
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post #15 of 18 Old 12-21-2011, 07:36 AM
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Fitting those THT's in there is going to be a challenge. I don't see much room for them to fit. Looks like you've got a lot of output for that size of room.
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post #16 of 18 Old 12-21-2011, 08:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stockmonkey2000 View Post

Fitting those THT's in there is going to be a challenge. I don't see much room for them to fit. Looks like you've got a lot of output for that size of room.

Actually the THTs are in the photos. They are hard to see because they are painted the same color as the walls.
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post #17 of 18 Old 11-11-2012, 01:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Updated Photos:
dsc01155001.th.jpg
dsc01154001.th.jpg
dsc01152001.th.jpg
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post #18 of 18 Old 11-11-2012, 01:19 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm making the best out of a tiny space. The theater looks and sounds great. I spent a lot of time making the theater as silent as possible. The equipment rack is in the adjacent room; the AC is virtually silent; my projector is in a hush box that is plugged in to the AC return; and I installed an external door on the theater. Guests are always amazed. I think my next upgrade will be to pick up some real theater theater seats so I can get 4 people in the theater more comfortably. Suggestions?
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