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post #631 of 1287 Old 04-03-2012, 10:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by tony123 View Post

Have you mudded before? I hadn't, and found I wasn't very good at it! LOL

A very wise man once told me while I was visiting his theatre that you can hide anything with enough layers.
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post #632 of 1287 Old 04-03-2012, 10:13 AM
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It's nice to hear somone else quote you sometimes...I feel like all I do is ramble senselessly, but there just might be a gem in there once in awhile? I call it the shotgun approach. If you talk enough, somethings bound to make sense.

Regarding the sub amp: You may be aware of this, but the DIY community (from which your F20's were born) is fairly favorable of the Behringer EP series amps. It's what I use to drive two DTS10's. More power than you need, in a package that is bulletproof for residential use and for all of $300.

Maybe there is a reason to prefer the crown that I'm not aware of?

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post #633 of 1287 Old 04-03-2012, 10:35 AM
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They sell the adhesive right next to the bead. I put up the whole room in 90 minutes or so!

Interesting. Never heard of that, although I must admit I don't have my finger on the pulse of the corner bead market.

Carry on....
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post #634 of 1287 Old 04-03-2012, 12:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by tony123 View Post

It's nice to hear somone else quote you sometimes...I feel like all I do is ramble senselessly, but there just might be a gem in there once in awhile? I call it the shotgun approach. If you talk enough, somethings bound to make sense.

Regarding the sub amp: You may be aware of this, but the DIY community (from which your F20's were born) is fairly favorable of the Behringer EP series amps. It's what I use to drive two DTS10's. More power than you need, in a package that is bulletproof for residential use and for all of $300.

Maybe there is a reason to prefer the crown that I'm not aware of?

You're full of great advice! Thanks!

The thing about Crown is that I can get them for cost. That's a pretty darn compelling reason to go with them. I'll check out the Behringer though.
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post #635 of 1287 Old 04-03-2012, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by jdanforth View Post

Can anyone suggest a Crown amp appropriate for the two lilmike F20 subs? I have two Dayton DVC15s in them so I was thinking about 300w stereo amp or so. Thoughts?

I would recommend reading the measuring amplifiers thread. Find an amplifier that matches your power needs at max output. This way you just have to watch for clipping. Keep the red lights out and know your safe. Use something with more power than those F20s can handle and youll do damage before you could hear them complain in a horn........

For example you could run them both off a single channel of an EP4000 safely, but wire them up to both channels and thats a recipe for disaster.

I like Berries, i even own one, but crown is a higher quality amp IMO.
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post #636 of 1287 Old 04-03-2012, 05:04 PM
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I have no business discussing amps, just regurgitating what I've read really.

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post #637 of 1287 Old 04-03-2012, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by tony123 View Post

I have no business discussing amps, just regurgitating what I've read really.

Hi Tony, Wasn't disagreeing with you.... I love my EP4000 they are the best bang for the buck in the pro amp category IMO.

This crown would certainly not overpower a pair of F20s wired in series for a net 8ohm load on one channel. Roughly 260W per sub and just keep the red lights from blinking. Doesn't lilmike suggest like 300W per sub?

This amp doesn't have dsp though, so count on needing minidsp or if your cheap and primitive like me a BFD at least.



However if It were me I would probably use the Behringer EP1500 stereo into 4ohms per channel for a net 400W per sub. I'd confirm on the F20 thread max power handling but from what I remember that power would be safe. Fan mods for these are easy and well documented to make them quiet and even 12V trigger mods too!

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post #638 of 1287 Old 04-05-2012, 03:19 PM
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You're full of great advice! Thanks!.

Agreed. He's certainly *IS* full of it!

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post #639 of 1287 Old 04-06-2012, 07:16 AM
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The Behringers are great, I own two EP4K's. There are better, but not for the price. I'm not sure, however the Crown may roll off the infrasonic a bit sooner than the Behringer's. I believe the Berry high passes at about 5hz, however the Crown may begin it's roll off around 20hz.

How does this impact you? I don't know,..as I'm not familiar with those subs and their -3dB point. I'm not even aware of the recommended power,...I'd examine bottom octave measurements other successful/similar builds, and what amplification was employed. Be mindful if you're pursuing the "Nth" degree of extension, that roll off is accumulative. Will it ultimately matter at the LP,..I don't know. With the wondrous effects of PVG (Pressure Vessel Gain), one's bottom octave performance is certainly augmented.


Good luck

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post #640 of 1287 Old 04-06-2012, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by FOH View Post

The Behringers are great, I own two EP4K's. There are better, but not for the price. I'm not sure, however the Crown may roll off the infrasonic a bit sooner than the Behringer's. I believe the Berry high passes at about 5hz, however the Crown may begin it's roll off around 20hz.

That's pretty much what the amp tech said to me yesterday. I originally wanted to get an Xti4002 for my IB because of the built-in DSP, but once I told him "what the hell kind of subwoofer" I have so that I was interested in anything below 20Hz, he recommended I go with something else, because the Crown has a built-in subsonic filter and the only way around it is to set the PEQ at 20Hz with a small Q and boost it to the max (12dB? 15dB?), but even then the Xti might not have much power down that low.
He recommended the t.amp proline 3000 (3kW). From a technological POV that thing is a bit outdated and heavy as hell (almost 90lbs), but simply amplifies what you feed it. If 1 Hz kills your speaker, it's your problem
I didn't really crank it up yet, but even at low volume the low end is much better than with the Crown XLS602 I temporarily used so far. I know it's a totally different league power-wise, but I wasn't anywhere close to the limits of both amps when I compared them.

So, if the decision is going to be between the Behringer and a Crown, I'd say go with the Behringer unless you know for sure that you can turn off that subsonic filter in the Crown. I'd recomment the t.amp over the Behringer, but I doubt that you can get them in the USA.
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post #641 of 1287 Old 04-06-2012, 10:51 AM
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I believe the f20s are supposed to be high passed 18-20 anyways.....
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post #642 of 1287 Old 04-06-2012, 11:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by NicksHitachi View Post

I believe the f20s are supposed to be high passed 18-20 anyways.....

That's right. The <20Hz performance of the F20 is reportedly very poor.

It turns out that a coworker has a 150w x 2 Crown amp of some sort that he's going to give me. I'll take free over cheap any time!
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post #643 of 1287 Old 04-06-2012, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by jdanforth View Post

That's right. The <20Hz performance of the F20 is reportedly very poor.

It turns out that a coworker has a 150w x 2 Crown amp of some sort that he's going to give me. I'll take free over cheap any time!

150w ..?

Interesting, any model info, as I'm not familiar with any recent models, however they sold tons of 150w amps back in the day.

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post #644 of 1287 Old 04-06-2012, 10:00 PM - Thread Starter
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150w ..?

Interesting, any model info, as I'm not familiar with any recent models, however they sold tons of 150w amps back in the day.

Hopefully I'll get it next week and let you know. It's not ideal, certainly, but NicksHitachi and I listened to one of these subs on a 120w amp and I was pretty pleased. Of course Nick is a total bass addict so I'm sure he has a different memory!
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post #645 of 1287 Old 04-07-2012, 07:35 AM
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Hopefully I'll get it next week and let you know. It's not ideal, certainly, but NicksHitachi and I listened to one of these subs on a 120w amp and I was pretty pleased. Of course Nick is a total bass addict so I'm sure he has a different memory!


I really enjoyed listening to it! It was my first HT horn listening session. I'm used to horn subs from my musician days but I had never heard a horn tuned that low before. I was really impressed with the efficiency of the horn with only ~100W it was putting out some nice notes!

Double up with both horns and 150W each and it'll be louder than most people want to listen in there.....


Later, down the road if your bass hungry you could always upgrade amp and get another 3-6db but you might not even need/want.
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post #646 of 1287 Old 04-07-2012, 09:31 AM - Thread Starter
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I really enjoyed listening to it! It was my first HT horn listening session. I'm used to horn subs from my musician days but I had never heard a horn tuned that low before. I was really impressed with the efficiency of the horn with only ~100W it was putting out some nice notes!

Double up with both horns and 150W each and it'll be louder than most people want to listen in there.....

Later, down the road if your bass hungry you could always upgrade amp and get another 3-6db but you might not even need/want.

I think that my next sub upgrade will be driven by an effort to achieve <20Hz frequencies. That's a tough nut do I'll hold off a while. Maybe.
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post #647 of 1287 Old 04-07-2012, 09:33 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm picking up my projector today!!
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I'll be drooling. please post pics...
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post #649 of 1287 Old 04-07-2012, 10:24 AM
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I'm picking up my projector today!!


Say goodby to updates, time lapse videos, and just about all signs of theater progress.

I'm betting that the last pictures we'll see is of the PJ then nothing.

Regards,

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post #650 of 1287 Old 04-07-2012, 11:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Say goodby to updates, time lapse videos, and just about all signs of theater progress.

I'm betting that the last pictures we'll see is of the PJ then nothing.

Regards,

RTROSE

Haha, I promise not to do that!

I'm like you though, the whole audio system is disconnected so I won't be able to enjoy any movies. :-)

I still have a lot on my to do list before I can hang that PJ! I'm going to test it and then re-box it. I might just leave the box on my kitchen table to serve as a constant reminder to go finish the space!
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post #651 of 1287 Old 04-07-2012, 11:09 AM
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hang it....hang it....hang it.

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post #652 of 1287 Old 04-07-2012, 11:24 AM
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Our good friend Tony is looking to make trouble...
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post #653 of 1287 Old 04-07-2012, 11:24 AM
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Haha, I promise not to do that!

I'm like you though, the whole audio system is disconnected so I won't be able to enjoy any movies. :-)

I still have a lot on my to do list before I can hang that PJ! I'm going to test it and then re-box it. I might just leave the box on my kitchen table to serve as a constant reminder to go finish the space!

We all promised not to do that yet somehow..........
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post #654 of 1287 Old 04-07-2012, 12:53 PM
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One can lose many hours staring/watching silent movies, caution must be used. You my friend are treading very dangerous waters.

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post #655 of 1287 Old 04-07-2012, 01:21 PM
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Surely one little movie couldn't hurt?

Dude, are you made of leprechauns? Cause that was awesome!

The Plains Theater Has Begun
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post #656 of 1287 Old 04-07-2012, 01:25 PM
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post #657 of 1287 Old 04-07-2012, 01:32 PM
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LOL! Misery loves company you know. And we all know once the theater is finished, that means the videos will be finished, too. So I can only think of one person on the this forum that wants the theater finished. I'm not naming any names, but I think it's Mr. jdanforth

Dude, are you made of leprechauns? Cause that was awesome!

The Plains Theater Has Begun
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post #658 of 1287 Old 04-07-2012, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by RTROSE View Post

One can lose many hours staring/watching silent movies, caution must be used. You my friend are treading very dangerous waters.

Regards,

RTROSE

The first movie I played was a silent movie (the one in my avatar) and it's been downhill from there
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post #659 of 1287 Old 04-07-2012, 04:52 PM
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I think that my next sub upgrade will be driven by an effort to achieve <20Hz frequencies. That's a tough nut do I'll hold off a while. Maybe.

Already talkin upgrades.........
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post #660 of 1287 Old 04-07-2012, 05:06 PM
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^^^^That's what happens when you get/hang the projector. You automatically start thinking where you can make improvements/upgrades.

I am with J_P_A though to thoroughly test the projector you MUST hook it up and watch one movie, just one to make sure that it is in good proper working order.

Just one...........,..

Muhhhhaaaaaa..........Muuuuuhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaa............ ..

Regards,

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