Sony VW1000 4k, 13' Scope, and Ten 21 Inch Subs - Page 5 - AVS Forum
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post #121 of 438 Old 07-19-2011, 03:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Horstkotte View Post
That sucks - I had a nice surprise like that too - city permit department sprung some required electrical upgrades on me (upgrade sub panel, re-run main wire - underground - from main panel to sub panel, etc.), that set me back a couple extra thousand that I hadn't planned on.
Lets just put it this way. I knew and planned for an upgrade but the electric company has screwed stuff up 3 times now. It was just a simple swap 200amp meter and base to a 400 amp meter and base then run to two panels. I even had them change the sservice wire before the footing was complete just in case there was a problem running the new feed. They have managed to screw up three times along with not upgrading my transformer. It was supposed to be changed out to a newer one when they added the 400 amp meter. What do you know, it took over an hour on the phone to get them to even have a clue what I was talking about. Then they come to change out the meter only to not have one on the truck. Very bright people I'm dealing with here.
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post #122 of 438 Old 07-19-2011, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by audiovideoholic View Post

Then they come to change out the meter only to not have one on the truck.



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post #123 of 438 Old 07-19-2011, 05:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Yep, and believe it or not thats not the dumbest thing they have done. Once they showed up out of the blue and asked me why they were here. Me and my electrician have yet to figure that one out.
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post #124 of 438 Old 07-19-2011, 06:09 PM
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Now that is a real cool idea...never thought of that.

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Originally Posted by HFGuy View Post

Have you considered using Speakon connectors instead ?

I have seen the wire question posted many times and many have suggested running the rg6. Say you want to add a cable box someplace, use it for IR, even rs-232. I ran 2 rg6 to each tv.


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post #125 of 438 Old 07-19-2011, 07:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by IGO2XS View Post

Now that is a real cool idea...never thought of that.



I have seen the wire question posted many times and many have suggested running the rg6. Say you want to add a cable box someplace, use it for IR, even rs-232. I ran 2 rg6 to each tv.

All 4 tvs are wall mounted and have their own Dtv box as well as two runs of IR wire. The Dtv boxes are going to be in the closet and under the bar cabinets. So between the multiple cat6 and pelv wire I should be ok. Extra rg6 8' up on the wall wont really help for future purposes

The subs in question are the original mfw powered fifteens so I'll be sticking with the rca cables. The theater room will have the 10 21" drivers this is just the media room. If you look on page 4 at the cad drawing of the coffered ceiling it shows 3 of the 4 tvs. The big plasma will go on the oppposite wall along with the LCR and 2 mfw 15s.
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post #126 of 438 Old 07-23-2011, 09:01 AM
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what is the purpose of the 50amp 220v?


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post #127 of 438 Old 07-23-2011, 10:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by smakovits View Post
what is the purpose of the 50amp 220v?
The wire is rated for 60 amps and the breaker is 50 so my thinking is that it can power two or three amps for the subs. Thats the plan anyway. Did I screw up in doing this instead of running two 30amp lines?
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post #128 of 438 Old 07-24-2011, 01:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by smakovits View Post

what is the purpose of the 50amp 220v?

I've been thinking about this a little more. I understand that sometimes more than one receptacle on a 220v line can be a problem with code but at others its ok. I was originally going to just use two or three receptacles for some fr clones which would draw around 16 plus amps. The wire from the main panel is rated for 60 amps. That would let me put on two receptacles with no problem with the wire, possibly three, correct? But the other problem is amp protection themselves.

Would I be better off putting a sub panel in the closet and putting two or three 20amp circuits thereran to all dedicated recptacles? What are some of your thoughts on this? My electrician doesnt have a clue about big amps and how their burst of current draw work. When he sees the max draw he thinks thats what he needs to plan for.
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post #129 of 438 Old 08-08-2011, 09:47 PM - Thread Starter
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I have a delima that I would like some opinions about. The drywall is up and soffits and IB wall are about to be built. The question is about LCR placement. I had Dennis layout the theater and the correct placement of the left and right speakers are on the outside of the screen. Would yall place them just on the inside of the screen width as possible or leave it as Dennis drew it up. I want the effect of the audio coming out of the screen but I'm assuming they will sound best where he has placed them. They are about 1.5' past the outer edge of the screen now.

Any thoughts?
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post #130 of 438 Old 08-08-2011, 10:40 PM
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I would leave the left and right channels where Dennis laid them out, because of the stereo imaging you will get from them, I don't think it will matter if they are on the inside edge of the screen or just outside the screen. As you know, the center channel is where most of the dialog comes from, that is the speaker you want to hear "coming from the screen".

Hope this helps :-)


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post #131 of 438 Old 08-09-2011, 02:26 AM
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Is there any reason to stray from what Dennis' real time speaker placement program and his experience has provided? Why a need now to undo the science and experience you paid Dennis to provide? Has the room changed?
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post #132 of 438 Old 08-09-2011, 09:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Tedd View Post

Is there any reason to stray from what Dennis' real time speaker placement program and his experience has provided? Why a need now to undo the science and experience you paid Dennis to provide? Has the room changed?

No, nothing has changed and I intend to leave them as he put them. I just needed some clarifacation lol. I really like the look of the speakers behind the screen but I guess function over form applies here.

Thanks both of you for keeping me on track.
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post #133 of 438 Old 08-09-2011, 10:10 AM
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If you put up an acoustically transparent panel on either side of the screen, you'd be the only one that knows they're NOT behind the screen. Just a thought.

Dude, are you made of leprechauns? Cause that was awesome!


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post #134 of 438 Old 08-09-2011, 02:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by J_P_A View Post

If you put up an acoustically transparent panel on either side of the screen, you'd be the only one that knows they're NOT behind the screen. Just a thought.

Yeah they will be hidden but there are 3 IB wall lights that have their own zone on the GE so they will be seen before the movie starts.
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post #135 of 438 Old 08-09-2011, 06:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiovideoholic View Post

The wire is rated for 60 amps and the breaker is 50 so my thinking is that it can power two or three amps for the subs. Thats the plan anyway. Did I screw up in doing this instead of running two 30amp lines?

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Originally Posted by audiovideoholic View Post

I've been thinking about this a little more. I understand that sometimes more than one receptacle on a 220v line can be a problem with code but at others its ok. I was originally going to just use two or three receptacles for some fr clones which would draw around 16 plus amps. The wire from the main panel is rated for 60 amps. That would let me put on two receptacles with no problem with the wire, possibly three, correct? But the other problem is amp protection themselves.

Would I be better off putting a sub panel in the closet and putting two or three 20amp circuits thereran to all dedicated recptacles? What are some of your thoughts on this? My electrician doesnt have a clue about big amps and how their burst of current draw work. When he sees the max draw he thinks thats what he needs to plan for.

I guess I have no good answer for you. If you are putting a 220, I say sounds great...I guess I didint realize that some amps require that much power. I have no added amps and never gave it any thought. I installed my own sub panel with some 20AMP breakers but that is about the extent of my knowledge. To think that much power draw for the amp is crazy to me, but again, this is an area I know nothing about. I know in all my time I have never really seen people talk about a 220 in the theater, but then again, I do not go through all the threads.

When it comes to this I am a novice and the only advice I could give is find someone else with the same amps and ask what they did. I know one time I was looking at an amp a person was installing, it called for 2 dedicated 20AMP 120v circuits, but that is the most I have ever seen.

Sorry if I got you worried as that was not my intent, instead I had a thought that maybe you were installing a washer and dryer in the theater, but that didnt seem right.


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post #136 of 438 Old 08-09-2011, 06:09 PM
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I have three dedicated 220v circuits for the Genelec amps I have.....they can be hooked up 110 or 220. what kind of amps to you have and how many amps do you think they draw?


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post #137 of 438 Old 08-09-2011, 08:39 PM - Thread Starter
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I have three dedicated 220v circuits for the Genelec amps I have.....they can be hooked up 110 or 220. what kind of amps to you have and how many amps do you think they draw?

I have 5 20 amp 120v circuits in the closet for everything except sub amps. I have 8 21" mach 5 drivers being built and was thinking about using the LG clone FP14000s to drive them. The wire ran to the closet is for 60 amps #6. Right now it is just in a double gang box awaiting my next move. The FP14000s claim 16 amps of 230v but I'm sure will peak a little higher than that. So, I could put a sub panel in and put two 30 amp circuits in there or put 3 20 amp circuits in there from the sub panel.

I started a thread about this in the DIY speakers and subs section when smakovits got me worried about what I had paid so much to have ran ; ). My original thought was to just chain two 30 amp lines off the #6 but was overwhelmed by so many people against doing that. It is allowed by code to have more than one outlet on the #6 but so many people suggested otherwise that I'm now pretty sure I'll pay the extra money to have the electrician put in the subpanel.

What are your thoughts?
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post #138 of 438 Old 08-17-2011, 02:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Well drywall is almost ready for finish coat. I only took one pic to show the total overkill of screws used. I used iphone because of all the dust, so sorry for quality. Everyone has seen drywall so not really documenting this part of the build, boring!!!!!

Hopefully soffits will be up soon! That will be worth sharing.

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post #139 of 438 Old 08-17-2011, 02:07 PM
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Looks like a wall from The Matrix

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post #140 of 438 Old 08-17-2011, 02:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Looks like a wall from The Matrix

Just shy of 50lb of screws lol. Two people, one screwgun, and drills. We took turns with the screwgun. That was kinda funny though. We would switch up every two sheets at a time. I would have bought a second one but was supposed to borrow one from a friend that never produced : (
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post #141 of 438 Old 08-17-2011, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiovideoholic View Post

I have 5 20 amp 120v circuits in the closet for everything except sub amps. I have 8 21" mach 5 drivers being built and was thinking about using the LG clone FP14000s to drive them. The wire ran to the closet is for 60 amps #6. Right now it is just in a double gang box awaiting my next move. The FP14000s claim 16 amps of 230v but I'm sure will peak a little higher than that. So, I could put a sub panel in and put two 30 amp circuits in there or put 3 20 amp circuits in there from the sub panel.

I'm not completely clear on your situation, but it sounds like you're asking whether or not a 20 A breaker will be enough for each amplifier (?). I've never dealt with amplifiers specifically, but I'm pretty familiar with breakers. Most breakers have 2 trip elements. One works on wire heating which is caused primarily by the continuous current draw. You can assume that to be 16 A based on the amplifier rating which is below the breaker rating, so you're golden there. The next issue is instantaneous current spikes. Most of the trip curves I could find showed instantaneous trip settings at or above 6 times the breaker rating, which is 120 A or more instantaneous without tripping.

The short answer is, unless you are expecting these spikes to last more than a second or so, the 20 A breaker should be fine.

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post #142 of 438 Old 08-28-2011, 08:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Well, first screw up by the sheetrock guys. I told them that they wouldnt be able to hang the drywall and then try to rotozip out the places where multiple wires were ran for the tvs. They said oh yeah no problem we'll just cut it then pull them through when we hang it.

So, I come home Friday afternoon and they were gone early (2:30), and I then went in to see what they had gotten done. They tried to zip out the hole for one of the tvs that had 2 HDMI, 2 Cat6, 1 IR, and power. They cut two of the freaking cat6 wires. I'm just glad they didnt hit a hdmi or the two layers of wall would have to come down to rewire it.

I know cat6 can be repaired but I dont quite understand which way to wire it to a new connector. It looks like there is a different way to wire it for different situations. Can someone point me in the correct direction please?

It would be nice to just cut them and splice them back together way they are the length I intended them to be. Can I do that with cat6? They are just a few inches longer than needed to hook to the tv.
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post #143 of 438 Old 08-28-2011, 09:33 PM
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I've never drywalled but I have to say, I'm not looking forward to it when I do it next year.
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post #144 of 438 Old 08-28-2011, 09:53 PM - Thread Starter
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I've never drywalled but I have to say, I'm not looking forward to it when I do it next year.

Rent or buy a lift!!!!

I only did the theater (35'x18'x10') and subbed out the other rooms. I should have spent the $200 or so on the lift just for the one room I did do!

I also used about 300-400% more screws than typical because didnt want any noise from the subs associated with the drywall. Buy a self fed drywall screwgun. Two weeks after I finished hanging mine one of my best friends informed me that he had one I could have borrowed. I would have bought one if could have found one at a local retailer. I started searching the weekend before it was to be hung and couldnt get one delivered by the time I needed to start hanging so just stuck with a regular drywall screw gun (still way better than a drill). But must haves on a large project to make it worth DIY are the correct tools. I def learned the hard way on the drywall! I have just about any tool I could ever need but not a drywall lift or self fed screwgun. If I had it to do over again I would have just paid someone to hang it or bought the tools well in advance to do it myself.

Me and friend hanging without correct tools= about a week plus $12/hr to friend on screwing in the excessive screws and $0.07/sqft hanging. I may have saved money and time by purchasing the tools. Prob could have gotten both for around $500. I do have quite a few apartments that I rent out so they could be used again in the future as well and not just sitting collecting dust.
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post #145 of 438 Old 08-29-2011, 03:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiovideoholic View Post

I know cat6 can be repaired but I dont quite understand which way to wire it to a new connector. It looks like there is a different way to wire it for different situations. Can someone point me in the correct direction please?


You just need a pass through patch cable. The colors/order of the wires should match in the connector on each end. Just look at the connector from the other end and match it. The colors should match left to right when looking at the connector from the other top.


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post #146 of 438 Old 08-29-2011, 07:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by NGiovas View Post

You just need a pass through patch cable. The colors/order of the wires should match in the connector on each end. Just look at the connector from the other end and match it. The colors should match left to right when looking at the connector from the other top.

Ok thanks.
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post #147 of 438 Old 08-29-2011, 08:15 AM
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Drywallers can do tremendous damage with a rotozip. Once had a drywall crew run the tool between the door leaf and frame instead of around the perimeter of the frame. They destroyed about $10k worth of clad wood doors.

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post #148 of 438 Old 08-29-2011, 06:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Drywallers can do tremendous damage with a rotozip. Once had a drywall crew run the tool between the door leaf and frame instead of around the perimeter of the frame. They destroyed about $10k worth of clad wood doors.



We had to talk today and wont be using it anymore once the sheet is up where I have wires. I told him to zip away where the electricians have wire but anything that isnt yellow to precut.
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post #149 of 438 Old 08-29-2011, 07:15 PM
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Sorry I missed your reply on your electrical decision. I would without a doubt put in a small 60 amp sub panel because it is the right way to distribute power to your amplifiers. I did not catch from you the location of your #6 wire but a sub panel would give you the flexibility of installing any combination of breakers whether they were 20 or 30 amp. I cant imagine those amps requiring more than 20 amps but I have not seen the specs on them.


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Originally Posted by audiovideoholic View Post

I have 5 20 amp 120v circuits in the closet for everything except sub amps. I have 8 21" mach 5 drivers being built and was thinking about using the LG clone FP14000s to drive them. The wire ran to the closet is for 60 amps #6. Right now it is just in a double gang box awaiting my next move. The FP14000s claim 16 amps of 230v but I'm sure will peak a little higher than that. So, I could put a sub panel in and put two 30 amp circuits in there or put 3 20 amp circuits in there from the sub panel.

I started a thread about this in the DIY speakers and subs section when smakovits got me worried about what I had paid so much to have ran ; ). My original thought was to just chain two 30 amp lines off the #6 but was overwhelmed by so many people against doing that. It is allowed by code to have more than one outlet on the #6 but so many people suggested otherwise that I'm now pretty sure I'll pay the extra money to have the electrician put in the subpanel.

What are your thoughts?



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post #150 of 438 Old 08-30-2011, 08:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Sorry I missed your reply on your electrical decision. I would without a doubt put in a small 60 amp sub panel because it is the right way to distribute power to your amplifiers. I did not catch from you the location of your #6 wire but a sub panel would give you the flexibility of installing any combination of breakers whether they were 20 or 30 amp. I cant imagine those amps requiring more than 20 amps but I have not seen the specs on them.

Yeah, thats what I am going to do. Just waiting for the drywall to get done everywhere but the closet then will have electricians come to hook up the HVAC and a few wall outlets. Then after I finish painting they can come back and hook up the lights and whatever else is left for them to do.

I need to get some pics of the drywall in the media room. The ceiling is awesome looking. Cant wait to throw some paint on it. Once the paint is put on the ceiling and the bottom parts of the coffering the break up between it and wall paint will make it POP! I just finished cleaning everything (theater, garages, media room.......) so should be able to get some pics tomo while they are mudding.

I still need to run a few wires before hvac and insulation are complete. Only have a pair of ceiling speakers and the runs to the projector left until the columns are up. I'm thinking about running all the surrounds, hdmi, IR, and ethernet wires to boxes in the ceiling (for theater). They will be in the closet above the MA rack so wont really be an eyesore. Then I'll always be able to troubleshoot wires or add/remove them without problems. I'll have the LCR, heights, and subs in the baffle wall so will just run them to boxes in the adjacent wall.

That brings up another kinda problem. I want to cut out a 14.5"x36" door that will allow access to behind the baffle wall. It would be in the closet but I'd hate to do it and then constantly fight a rattling mini door that will only be used once (hopefully).
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