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post #1441 of 2021 Old 03-08-2014, 05:53 PM
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Hey man, I'm back........What did I miss? Looks like progress, that's what.

Regards,

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My (slower than molasses) HT build here.
Now a Certified Carpet Counselor and Plumbing Counselor (Self given titles - pay no attention).
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post #1442 of 2021 Old 03-10-2014, 10:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Dont' worry RT, you didn't miss much…. progress that is smile.gif Glad to see you back on the forums. We've all ben a bit lost without our carpet counselor!

Dude, are you made of leprechauns? Cause that was awesome!

The Plains Theater Has Begun
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post #1443 of 2021 Old 03-10-2014, 12:19 PM
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post #1444 of 2021 Old 03-10-2014, 09:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J_P_A View Post

Dont' worry RT, you didn't miss much…. progress that is smile.gif Glad to see you back on the forums. We've all ben a bit lost without our carpet counselor!

Whew! Good to know.

It's good to be back! biggrin.gif

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post #1445 of 2021 Old 03-14-2014, 01:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Time for an update. I feel like my theater would have been more aptly named the "Two Steps Forward and Tear It All Out And Start Over Theater." My latest bit of progress to get back to where I used to be is yet another revision to my exhaust setup. I tore out the drywall on about 1/3 of my soffit that was my exhaust in the back of the room, and replaced it with two 6" insulated flex lines. You might be asking why I didn't do that to begin with, and the answer is two-fold. First, it's a serious reduction in flow capacity. At the beginning I was trying to maintain the 5 air exchanges per hour. This won't do that, but after spending some time working in the room with it sealed up, I don't think cooling will be an issue, so I'll have to put a strict "No Farting Allowed" policy in place to compensate for the reduced air exchanges. Stale popcorn smell doesn't bother me as much smile.gif

Second, There's only 6-1/2" between the ceiling and the soffit framing (the narrowest points) and 7-1/4" to the soffit drywall. A 6" insulated duct is around 10". So it's a tight fit. There's also the issue of getting the register boots crammed in there as you'll see in the picture below.

Here's some proof. This pick shows the two lines exiting the room and dumping into my deadvent. Those two lines connect to a single 8". I'll be able to adjust the vent in the equipment closet to balance flow between my 8" supply and the two 6" returns.



Here's the old setup for comparison.

Lumber2_zpsdaa81621.jpg


This is the inside of the room. The ducts enter the room on the right side and snake around to the back of the room. You can see it's a tight fit.



Here's the two register boots. If you'll notice, they are both tilted a bit. That's because there's really not enough room between the soffit framing and the ceiling, so I had to shove them in the best I could.



The good news about this is I believe it has solved the low frequency rumble I was hearing. I can still hear it at the the deadvent where I had to take the insulation off to get the flex through the opening. All I can figure at this point is it's just the sound that the fan makes as the blades "slap" the air. In my old setup, I don't think the Linacoustic provided enough absorption to eliminate the noise. Now, it's inaudible inside the room even with the drywall missing on the bottom of the soffit. Also, when I adjust the vent in the equipment closet so that there's little to know negative pressure in the room, the two vents are nearly inaudible when standing right next to them. So I'm encouraged that I'll be able to keep the wind noise down, too.

Finally, if you look to the right of the picture above, you can just make out where I've started fixing the drywall on my ceiling after taking down the framing for my previous coffered ceiling design. I really don't like drywall, but I need to fix this before I can prewire for my ceiling lights.

Sorry for the long post just to update my thread on negative progress. Maybe in a few more weeks I'll be back to where I was before I started tearing everything out biggrin.gif

As an interesting side note. I've spent several hours at a time in the room with two 500 W halogen lights (that's 1,000 W total for those that don't like maths smile.gif ), me working pretty hard, and the door closed with nothing but the deadvent running at about half speed, and the room stays cool. So my space seems to be staying cool even with no AC running. Again, very promising! I think this has a lot to do with the size of the room. There's a lot of air in there, and a lot of pre-cooled surface area to absorb heat.

Dude, are you made of leprechauns? Cause that was awesome!

The Plains Theater Has Begun
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post #1446 of 2021 Old 03-14-2014, 03:15 PM
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This is all good news. smile.gif Getting the prescribed volume through the room every hour is just about impossible - that's the spec that I know my ventilation system won't meet either, but I think it'll be okay.

I had in my head that you had modified the layout of the clips for your drywall to accommodate the weight of the coffers. Am I misremembering, or does the new plan not vary enough to matter?
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post #1447 of 2021 Old 03-14-2014, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J_P_A View Post

Time for an update. I feel like my theater would have been more aptly named the "Two Steps Forward and Tear It All Out And Start Over Theater." My latest bit of progress to get back to where I used to be is yet another revision to my exhaust setup. I tore out the drywall on about 1/3 of my soffit that was my exhaust in the back of the room, and replaced it with two 6" insulated flex lines. You might be asking why I didn't do that to begin with, and the answer is two-fold. First, it's a serious reduction in flow capacity. At the beginning I was trying to maintain the 5 air exchanges per hour. This won't do that, but after spending some time working in the room with it sealed up, I don't think cooling will be an issue, so I'll have to put a strict "No Farting Allowed" policy in place to compensate for the reduced air exchanges. Stale popcorn smell doesn't bother me as much smile.gif

Second, There's only 6-1/2" between the ceiling and the soffit framing (the narrowest points) and 7-1/4" to the soffit drywall. A 6" insulated duct is around 10". So it's a tight fit. There's also the issue of getting the register boots crammed in there as you'll see in the picture below.

Here's some proof. This pick shows the two lines exiting the room and dumping into my deadvent. Those two lines connect to a single 8". I'll be able to adjust the vent in the equipment closet to balance flow between my 8" supply and the two 6" returns.



Here's the old setup for comparison.

Lumber2_zpsdaa81621.jpg


This is the inside of the room. The ducts enter the room on the right side and snake around to the back of the room. You can see it's a tight fit.



Here's the two register boots. If you'll notice, they are both tilted a bit. That's because there's really not enough room between the soffit framing and the ceiling, so I had to shove them in the best I could.



The good news about this is I believe it has solved the low frequency rumble I was hearing. I can still hear it at the the deadvent where I had to take the insulation off to get the flex through the opening. All I can figure at this point is it's just the sound that the fan makes as the blades "slap" the air. In my old setup, I don't think the Linacoustic provided enough absorption to eliminate the noise. Now, it's inaudible inside the room even with the drywall missing on the bottom of the soffit. Also, when I adjust the vent in the equipment closet so that there's little to know negative pressure in the room, the two vents are nearly inaudible when standing right next to them. So I'm encouraged that I'll be able to keep the wind noise down, too.

Finally, if you look to the right of the picture above, you can just make out where I've started fixing the drywall on my ceiling after taking down the framing for my previous coffered ceiling design. I really don't like drywall, but I need to fix this before I can prewire for my ceiling lights.

Sorry for the long post just to update my thread on negative progress. Maybe in a few more weeks I'll be back to where I was before I started tearing everything out biggrin.gif

As an interesting side note. I've spent several hours at a time in the room with two 500 W halogen lights (that's 1,000 W total for those that don't like maths smile.gif ), me working pretty hard, and the door closed with nothing but the deadvent running at about half speed, and the room stays cool. So my space seems to be staying cool even with no AC running. Again, very promising! I think this has a lot to do with the size of the room. There's a lot of air in there, and a lot of pre-cooled surface area to absorb heat.

very cool. glad u are moving on. whats up next? smile.gif
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post #1448 of 2021 Old 03-14-2014, 03:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HopefulFred View Post

This is all good news. smile.gif Getting the prescribed volume through the room every hour is just about impossible - that's the spec that I know my ventilation system won't meet either, but I think it'll be okay.

I had in my head that you had modified the layout of the clips for your drywall to accommodate the weight of the coffers. Am I misremembering, or does the new plan not vary enough to matter?

Yes, I'm glad I went through the trouble to get rid of that annoying sound. It would have bugged me even if no one else noticed.

Again, correct. However, I discovered later that the clips are not the limiting factor with regard to loading. It's the channel. I talked to Ted about it extensively (patient man), and I even reached out to one of the members on the forums here that is a structural engineer, and both agreed that the layout i used would support the weight I was planning to put up there. Nonetheless, the loading has been nagging at me, and I finally decided that I didn't want to lose the ceiling height either. So, I punted and tore it down.
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very cool. glad u are moving on. whats up next? smile.gif

Drywall. Lots of drywall. I have to rebuild my soffits and finish fixing the ceiling just to get back to where I was. Then I'll finish my prewire and have my rough-in electrical inspection done before i seal up my soffits and put the decking on my riser. After that it'll be trim and paint. I've set a deadline for myself, but I'm not going to announce it. We all know what happens once someone posts a deadline smile.gif But I'm pretty motivated to meet it.

Oh, I'm also considering biting the bullet and buying seats. I'm either going to buy the el cheap power seats from Sams ($399/seat is awfully tempting), or I'm going to buy the Fusion Escapes from Roman and just get it over with. I'll likely make a decision in the next week since Roman's prices are going up. Tough decisions ahead!

Dude, are you made of leprechauns? Cause that was awesome!

The Plains Theater Has Begun
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post #1449 of 2021 Old 03-14-2014, 03:51 PM
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Roman's prices are going up.
WHAT?! deep breath... do you have a link?
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post #1450 of 2021 Old 03-14-2014, 03:53 PM - Thread Starter
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No link. I emailed earlier this week. PM incoming.

Dude, are you made of leprechauns? Cause that was awesome!

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post #1451 of 2021 Old 03-14-2014, 10:04 PM
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Isn't backwards progress forward progress in Logan's Dimension X? That's good right? I know that it is a major PITA to tear down and redo work and it can add greatly to the frustration level, but doing it right and doing it to where you are satisfied even if it takes you longer or you have to redo a couple of times is much better in the long run than "settling" for something that will gnaw at you long after you have a finished product that will affect your enjoyment/satisfaction level.

Regards,

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My (slower than molasses) HT build here.
Now a Certified Carpet Counselor and Plumbing Counselor (Self given titles - pay no attention).
Enjoying my "almost done" theater.
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post #1452 of 2021 Old 03-15-2014, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
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Drywall. Lots of drywall. I have to rebuild my soffits and finish fixing the ceiling just to get back to where I was. Then I'll finish my prewire and have my rough-in electrical inspection done before i seal up my soffits and put the decking on my riser. After that it'll be trim and paint. I've set a deadline for myself, but I'm not going to announce it. We all know what happens once someone posts a deadline smile.gif But I'm pretty motivated to meet it.

Sounds like a great plan. Pick the items off one at a time and you will get there.

The Moving Pictures Theater Construction Thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1462881/th...ruction-thread

Houston GTG - Summer 2014
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/61-are...l#post26079610
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post #1453 of 2021 Old 03-16-2014, 09:58 AM
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Glad you figured it out. That transition that was fighting you right from the start. Well done, sir!
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post #1454 of 2021 Old 03-16-2014, 12:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks! I think the ultimate solution was more absorption. The Linacoustic just didn't offer enough. Another approach would have been to move the fan further away from the entrance to the room so the flex was longer before entering the room. I thought having the five 90s before entering the room would do the same thing, but unfortunately not.

I think if I had it to do over again, I may have gone with a joist muffler instead of the setup I used. Hindsight and all smile.gif

Dude, are you made of leprechauns? Cause that was awesome!

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post #1455 of 2021 Old 03-18-2014, 09:20 PM - Thread Starter
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I hate drywall...... That is all.

Dude, are you made of leprechauns? Cause that was awesome!

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post #1456 of 2021 Old 03-18-2014, 09:36 PM
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But that's only the BEGINNING. Ha!
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post #1457 of 2021 Old 03-18-2014, 09:49 PM - Thread Starter
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I take it the career as a motivational speaker didn't work out, huh smile.gif

Dude, are you made of leprechauns? Cause that was awesome!

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post #1458 of 2021 Old 03-18-2014, 10:01 PM
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post #1459 of 2021 Old 03-18-2014, 10:07 PM - Thread Starter
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^^^ LOL.

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post #1460 of 2021 Old 03-19-2014, 02:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Question for you riser builders out there. Have you been using PL to attach the first layer of decking to the riser framing? I'd like to use faced insulation so that I can keep the insulation from falling down on the floor over time, but I would much rather not have my riser squeak smile.gif

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post #1461 of 2021 Old 03-19-2014, 03:26 PM
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Yes. I always glue the decking to the joists and the second layer of decking to the first with offsetting joints. Just staple the faced insulation to the inside vertical of each joist bay so you can apply the PL to the top of each joist as you wanted. Easy peasy!
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post #1462 of 2021 Old 03-19-2014, 07:21 PM
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Even with faced insulation, I would still use insulation supports.

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Is it solipsistic in here, or is it just me?
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post #1463 of 2021 Old 03-19-2014, 10:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Do those supports have to be stapled in place, or do they just stick into the framing on either side of the opening?

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post #1464 of 2021 Old 03-19-2014, 10:41 PM
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You don't need the insulation supports, the staples are more than enough. But if you decide to use the supports in addition to the staples, they are pointy on the ends and just tension into place.
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post #1465 of 2021 Old 03-20-2014, 10:31 AM
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I've seen insulation separate from the kraft facing before. Is it likely to happen, no. But if it were to separate over time and fall to sit on the concrete slab, it can turn into a mold risk. I'm super paranoid about mold, so a box of insulation supports for me falls into the ounce of prevention vs. a pound of cure camp. Like Tim says, you don't need them, but why not. YMMV.

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post #1466 of 2021 Old 03-20-2014, 10:33 AM - Thread Starter
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I ended up buying the insulation supports and getting all unfaced insulation. The cost difference paid for the box of supports, and it certainly can't hurt for the little bit of time it will take.

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post #1467 of 2021 Old 03-20-2014, 11:24 AM
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On the plus side if you fill your riser completely with insulation like I did you wont need hangers or kraft facing. That is how I handled the sagging insulation problem. biggrin.gif I guess it becomes an issue if you are using your riser as a bass trap and you need that airspace at the bottom. If that is the case then never mind. wink.gif

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post #1468 of 2021 Old 03-20-2014, 12:11 PM - Thread Starter
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You got it, RT. I am using my riser as a bass trap. My riser is also about 15" high, so that would require quite a bit more insulation than I would like to buy smile.gif

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post #1469 of 2021 Old 03-24-2014, 11:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Two questions for you guys.
  1. I went ahead and primed my ceiling to make it easier to find any imperfections, and so that I wouldn't have to cut in around my trim up there. I had several places that looked like the drywall had blisters (for lack of a better word) while the primer was wet. I poked a few of them, and it felt like the paper had separated from the drywall in places I'd sanded too much. However, after the primer dried, I can't find any of those places anymore. Should I try to find them and fix it, or is it a case of out of sight out of mind? I've never seen this happen before, so I don't know if these areas will become a problem down the road or not.
  2. I used 12/4 cable for all the speakers in the rear of my room. They're pretty long runs and I can use two of the conductors for small smoothing subs in my columns if I need to. I ran out of cable before I got to the front of my room. I believe I have enough 12/4 for my two subs up front, but I'm wondering if I can just use a 14/4 for my LCR, wides, and heights. These runs are between 60' and 70', and I'll prewire for a wide that will be around 80'. I don't want to cut corners, but that cable is expensive, so I don't want to buy more 12/4 if something smaller will work.

Sorry for the obvious lack of photo proof of progress, but my camera was not going down there with all the drywall dust flying around.

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post #1470 of 2021 Old 03-24-2014, 11:31 AM
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1. No worries at all unless it really bugs you...then the only fix is to razor knife out the bubble, give a quick skim with joint compound then prime again.
2. The wire gauge also depends on your intended speaker impedance, not just length. I always refer to the chart contained in THIS LINK to make the determination. It looks like you are solidly into 12 gauge wire and combining the conductors to make a heavier wire would serve you well to combat insertion loss.
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