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post #1771 of 2001 Old 08-05-2014, 08:52 AM
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Mfusik, good tips on speaker assembly. I'm trying to work up the nerve to pull the trigger on the surrounds. I'd really like for the Fusion 15 to be available and just do it all at once. I have this nagging concern that Erich is going to get tired of dealing with all the hassle and the DIYSoundgroup is going to close up shop before I get to order the mains. I know that's pretty selfish of me, but there it is

Once I get the speakers I'll start a build thread. I'll need to get measurements of them both on-axis and off, and I'll post those so others can benefit from it. I'll be interested to hear Nyal's impressions of the measurements.
Well even if you just do a pair of FUSION 8 for experience of it, you'll have some tunes to crank on when you work!

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I know I sound like a broken record, but that track saw is awesome! I hooked up my shopvac to that thing and there was barely any dust left after each cut. I forgot to turn on the vac once or twice and it made a HUGE mess. So yeah, I'm loving that track saw!
Jealous! I am very... very... JELLY!

I really need to get one. I should have one. I had to use my dad (he's old lol) to help and I used a hand circular saw for a lot of it (and results are ok, but not track saw professional perfect) What model did you end up getting ?


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I tend to like rustic wood............Knotty Alder isn't for everyone.

Clear Alder can look like Cherry......hemlock, Douglas Fir, White Oak, Popular, Maple......sometimes Redwood, but most Redwood comes from Humboult County, California are readily available. Shipping on pallet most likely..........we do most of our shipping via log truck.
I hate to take over JPA thread so much, but I would love to have your assistance! I'm doing an entire remodel, plus an 8000 cubic foot theater. You mentioned prices in MA are more, explain ?

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post #1772 of 2001 Old 08-05-2014, 09:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Well even if you just do a pair of FUSION 8 for experience of it, you'll have some tunes to crank on when you work!

…...
The plan is to go ahead and buy the whole set of surrounds including a pair for heights or wides. I'm on a pretty tight budget at this point, so I'd rather not spend the extra cash only to end up with an odd pair of speakers. I figure I'll be building these one at a time anyway, so I'll get plenty of practice building speakers before it's all done I should be a pro by the time I get to the last one

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post #1773 of 2001 Old 08-05-2014, 09:24 AM
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Assembling is easy. It's the finishing that's the bugger. Especially with the flat packs, you have the thing assembled in 24 hours - then the "fun" starts.
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post #1774 of 2001 Old 08-05-2014, 09:27 AM
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Just duratex them or flat black them, you won't see them. You can pull them out in the future and finish them nice if you get ambitious once the theater is done. Rattle can black paint get's my vote.

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post #1775 of 2001 Old 08-05-2014, 09:32 AM - Thread Starter
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I was thinking Duratex or the Krylon touch as well. I really don't expect these things to go anywhere except th columns in my theater, so they don't need to be pretty. I guess I could even leave them natural if I can't see them through the fabric on the columns.

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post #1776 of 2001 Old 08-05-2014, 09:40 AM
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lol I have a pair of natural in the garage. They are kind of cool like that. I use mine to crank over the sound of the compressor, table saw etc... while wearing ear protection muffs. So I can hear the music, and my ears are safe... Neighbors don't necessarily like it. Outside they are amazingly loud for their size. My one complaint about the FUSION8 would be that they are a tad reserved up top. I tend to like a bright speaker and they are not that. They are designed to be cranked on and listen for a long time without fatigue. Seems like this is a personal preference thing, since many did not like the FUSION12 at the last GTG as much because it was directly compared to the brighter 1099 and JTR's Noesis. But a few attendees did complain that the 1099 was a tad too bright, and tux made an optional resistor to knock the top end down 1db. But reading all that and playing with my FUSION speaker makes me think I'd really love the 1099's. We are talking about small differences here, (1db on top) but I am pretty certain in real life I would like the brighter speaker. I crank the treble just a tad on my FUSION8 now for music. I built them just to beat on while I build my house. Need tunes to work hard. Tunes and food!

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post #1777 of 2001 Old 08-05-2014, 09:50 AM
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I'm loving that track saw!
Which one do you have?


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post #1778 of 2001 Old 08-05-2014, 09:56 AM
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Which one do you have?
How much $$ did you spend on tools to build your theater ???

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Thanks for the feedback, guys! I just bought the DeWalt track saw kit that comes with the 59" and 102" tracks. That was cheaper than buying the Festool with just the 55" track. Unfortunately, after placing my order I've found reviews that say the 102" track is not quite long enough for a full 8' cut. We shall see.
I had to go dig it up. Looks like a $550 unit. A tad too expensive for my blood. But do want.

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post #1779 of 2001 Old 08-05-2014, 10:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Which one do you have?
Looks like Mfusik beat me to it. I had no issues cutting full 8' sheets with the 102" track. It's plenty long enough with room to spare. There is a bit of learning curve to it to get really accurate cuts. For example, regular ply is rough enough you can throw the track on it and cut without worrying about it moving. MDF is pretty slick and I found that I needed to keep a finger on the track to keep it from sliding. No big deal, just one of those tricks you learn as you go.

Like I said in the other thread. If My table saw and track saw broke, I'd be hard pressed to decide which to replace first.

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post #1780 of 2001 Old 08-05-2014, 10:04 AM
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Is it as easy at a hand circular saw ? Video ! I know you have a cell phone.

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post #1781 of 2001 Old 08-05-2014, 10:23 AM - Thread Starter
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This seems like a good time to post up some more progress shots as the track saw came in pretty handy as you will see.

before I put the decking down on the stage I proceeded to rip my MDF into 28" sheets for wainscoting, 15-1/4" widths for the column sides, 17-1/2" widths for the column fronts, and I took some of the scraps and cut them down to 16" wide for use in the column backs. I did this in the middle of laying decking because my dad was there to help move the MDF. I ended up having to handle the last few sheets myself, and it made me even more grateful that I had my dad to help part of the time. Again, track saw was a huge help here. I can't imagine trying to wrestle a full sheet of 3/4" MDF onto my table saw, especially without help.

Back to my teaser shot from before, this is where I started laying out the columns for assembly. The short pieces are for the back. This serves to keep the column square and gives me a point to mount to the wall. I decided at 16" deep, I could afford to lose 3/4" for a good mounting point. The two long pieces are the sides.



Here it is during assembly with the sides attached to the back. I even put in some blocking to help strengthen things up. Not sure it was necessary, but it only took a second.



Here I've put the front on the column, so I essentially have a long box.


Next I needed to cut the openings for the speakers. I'm using the Savoy as a guide for all this, BTW. I decided I wanted the opening as large as possible, so I laid out where I wanted the trim to go framing each opening. I moved in 1/4", and used that for my opening. I'm planning to build fabric frames to go in the opening, and attach my trim to the front with 1/4" overhang that will hide the cut opening in the column.

With my openings laid out on the column front, here comes the track saw again. Because it's a plunge cut saw, I could use it to cut out each opening.


I used the short track to make the horizontal cuts.


And here's what I was left with.


The plan was to come back and clean up the corners with the jigsaw, but I needed to keep the panels from falling and tearing out the corners on the last one. I wish I could say I planned this, but it I just so happened to have the perfect thing to catch each panel


And this is what we ended up with.



With the next update we're going to talk about column placement, though you can see a hint of what's to come in the background.
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post #1782 of 2001 Old 08-05-2014, 10:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Is it as easy at a hand circular saw ? Video ! I know you have a cell phone.
I would say easier. I bought a 4x8 sheet of 3/4" foam insulation that I put each sheet of ply or MDF to be cut. Because the track doesn't need to be clamped, I could make cuts anywhere on there and didn't have to worry about the drop tearing off a corner or something. It makes cutting sheet goods a one man job as long as you are man enough to carry the wood (yep, the jokes just keep coming).

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post #1783 of 2001 Old 08-05-2014, 10:45 AM
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I was thinking Duratex or the Krylon touch as well. I really don't expect these things to go anywhere except th columns in my theater, so they don't need to be pretty. I guess I could even leave them natural if I can't see them through the fabric on the columns.
Why not use Rust-o-leum Truck Bed Liner paint........more attractive and lots cheaper. After primer, one can flat black, then one or two cans of Truck Bedliner Paint.

$20 max.........

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post #1784 of 2001 Old 08-05-2014, 11:04 AM
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second.

Here I've put the front on the column, so I essentially have a long box.


It looks like you built these and then 'tipped up' into place? The front column looks pretty 'tight' to the ceiling, did you only need to make 1/2" short?

.... oops, I guess since this is going under the soffit, you can simply tilt it up on the main ceiling height and slide it in... figured this out when I looked at my post!!

Thanks!

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post #1785 of 2001 Old 08-05-2014, 11:14 AM - Thread Starter
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I cut them about an inch short so that I could slide them easily, but you're on the right track. I tipped them up, and then pushed them back under the soffit. The extra space also let me shim the bottom of the columns to get them plumb front to back and side-to-side as well, which helps out with the wainscoting panels. Fortunately, there was very little shimming necessary, though I did add about an 1/8" to the two front columns just to get the MDF up off the floor. Probably not necessary with the roofing felt, but I figured it only took an extra minute or two. The gap at the top will be covered by trim, but I'm getting ahead of myself.

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post #1786 of 2001 Old 08-05-2014, 11:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Why not use Rust-o-leum Truck Bed Liner paint........more attractive and lots cheaper. After primer, one can flat black, then one or two cans of Truck Bedliner Paint.

$20 max.........
Good idea!

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post #1787 of 2001 Old 08-05-2014, 02:37 PM
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Why not use Rust-o-leum Truck Bed Liner paint........more attractive and lots cheaper. After primer, one can flat black, then one or two cans of Truck Bedliner Paint.

$20 max.........
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Good idea!
This is exactly what Mario did in his Cinemar theater and it turned out fantastic. Full sub build with all construction pictures, materials list with links and step-by-step instructions in a single post at THIS link.


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post #1788 of 2001 Old 08-06-2014, 06:40 AM
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Wow look at all this awesome I missed yesterday when I was choking on MDF dust Looking good!

So question now is you on vacation for a while or is this going to continue? That saw does look pretty awesome ! I really should get one of those.
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post #1789 of 2001 Old 08-06-2014, 06:44 AM
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This is exactly what Mario did in his Cinemar theater and it turned out fantastic. Full sub build with all construction pictures, materials list with links and step-by-step instructions in a single post at THIS link.
There was also a thread that used that decking restore finish stuff and had great results. That deck restore stuff is cheaper than duratex but about same thing, it's durable and available in different colors too. Roll it on makes application easy too. If you are doing 8 cans of rattle can bed liner and 4 cans of primer that's going to give a gallon of Restore a good cost advantage.
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post #1790 of 2001 Old 08-06-2014, 06:53 AM - Thread Starter
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…...So question now is you on vacation for a while or is this going to continue? That saw does look pretty awesome ! I really should get one of those.
I don't know is the answer. I've got a ton of stuff on my plate right now, so I don't know when I'll get time to work on the theater again. If it was up to me, I'd take two weeks and finish construction. I could probably do it in a week, honestly. I just don't get much time in contiguous blocks. Even after construction is finished I'll still need to build speakers and deal with acoustic treatments, but that stuff is easier to handle in little blocks when I get time.

We'll just have to see. I do still leave a few pictures to get us up to date on progress, though. Like I said, it was a busy week

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post #1791 of 2001 Old 08-06-2014, 06:57 AM
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That deck restore stuff is cheaper than duratex but about same thing, it's durable and available in different colors too. Roll it on makes application easy too. If you are doing 8 cans of rattle can bed liner and 4 cans of primer that's going to give a gallon of Restore a good cost advantage.
Duratex = technical polymers-based. Deck Restore = cementitious-based. They are not the same by a mile in practical application, only final aesthetics. But given these are subs that are going to sit untouched in an internal environment, I'd say pick your poison.

By the way, the Duratex is available in roll-on gallon sizes (covers up to 100 square feet) and even 5 gallon sizes and HVLP sprayer formulations. Rattle cans are just for convenience.


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post #1792 of 2001 Old 08-06-2014, 07:07 AM
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Duratex = technical polymers-based. Deck Restore = cementitious-based. They are not the same by a mile in practical application, only final aesthetics. But given these are subs that are going to sit untouched in an internal environment, I'd say pick your poison.

By the way, the Duratex is available in roll-on gallon sizes (covers up to 100 square feet) and even 5 gallon sizes and HPLV sprayer formulations. Rattle cans are just for convenience.
I might still grab a can of duratex for the sprayer, just because I like spraying. I hate painting, but I like spraying. The problem is the $56 a gallon + shipping price tag. It's not the product. If you won't see the speakers flat spray paint in rattle cans is fine, they are hidden and in doors I don't see the point in duratex. If they are visable, I'd be more inclined to do a piano black high gloss (labor!) anyways. Duratex is kind of in between in no mans land where it's expensive to be "premium" but it's not super great looking. It's durable, so that is the bonus. But I fail to understand why durability is important when your speakers are indoors in a dedicated theater and hidden and not moved? So then if you don't need the durability what's wrong with something cheaper, or just plain black paint ? It's like a catch 22 for me.


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I don't know is the answer. I've got a ton of stuff on my plate right now, so I don't know when I'll get time to work on the theater again. If it was up to me, I'd take two weeks and finish construction. I could probably do it in a week, honestly. I just don't get much time in contiguous blocks. Even after construction is finished I'll still need to build speakers and deal with acoustic treatments, but that stuff is easier to handle in little blocks when I get time.

We'll just have to see. I do still leave a few pictures to get us up to date on progress, though. Like I said, it was a busy week
I understand that. I've been trying to build a temporary closet in the basement in the laundry room, leaving work at 3pm and working till dark. Monday I chopped up 10 sheets of MDF (wish I had your saw!) Yesterday I finished all the cuts, dry fitted, then sprayed each peice white with Kilz primer. (Used 1.5 gallons) Today I will spray them with my HVLP gun with a semi gloss white finish, then I can carry them down to the basement and put it together. Seemed like an easy project, but then why am I so sore and tired? It did not help it was like 100 degrees yesterday and I was working on pavement.

In comparison to your theater project which is a lot more complicated this should be a walk in the park. Consistently is the key. It's like going to the gym. You can rally and kick ass one or two sessions, but in the long run you get better and faster results through consistency. It's just hard to find that consistency when life gets in the way. A couple hours each night you'd be done in no time, but it's easier said than done.

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post #1793 of 2001 Old 08-06-2014, 07:27 AM
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If you won't see the speakers flat spray paint in rattle cans is fine, they are hidden and in doors I don't see the point in duratex. If they are visable, I'd be more inclined to do a piano black high gloss (labor!) anyways. So then if you don't need the durability what's wrong with something cheaper, or just plain black paint?
I agree - from cost and practicality perspectives, flat black is all you need. Call me crazy for going one step further with a protective textured coating straight away. At $18 cost per cabinet if I bought the gallon size of Duratex or $8 per cabinet (one can per box) if I bought the same thing Mario used, it seems like an easy upgrade choice for the money.


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post #1794 of 2001 Old 08-06-2014, 07:36 AM
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The cans are convenient. That seems easier than hooking up the sprayer and compressor and making a mess. I'd be tempted to do that myself and even pay a little extra for that "easy"

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What do you guys think about the flat packs for the DIYSoundgroup speakers? For the surrounds we're talking 26 ea. I'm sure I could save $100-$150 building them myself, but I'm not sure it's worth the trouble. I realize it's only been a handful of posts since I posted that I was on a tight budget, but the flat packs are going to be higher quality than what I'd be building myself.

On a side note, here's the sheet of foam insulation I've been using to make all my cuts. I've read where people will use a sheet of this for years, but I don't know that mine will make it through this project Either way, it's a wise $15 investment!



And here's my homage to BIG. Why they only had pink respirators, I'll never know. Hmmm… I need a haircut!



Despite the sweat on my forehead, I've been pleased with the way the room stays cool. WIth my dad and I in the room working pretty hard, it got warm once. I went and looked at the thermostat and the basement was at 75 degrees, and the air was not running. I turned it down to 74, and within minutes the room was much cooler. I also expect much better mixing once I get some registers on the vents.

Dude, are you made of leprechauns? Cause that was awesome!


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post #1796 of 2001 Old 08-06-2014, 12:54 PM
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What do you guys think about the flat packs for the DIYSoundgroup speakers? For the surrounds we're talking 26 ea.
I'd absolutely go this route, without question. I can't imagine creating the little jigs and templates you'd need to make for your router, not to mention all the chiseling and sanding needed to make everything fit. Your time is worth more than $100 - $150 and I'd think you'd be happier with the final product (nothing implied about your woodworking skills, of course!).

I like that foam idea if I needed to cut on the floor.


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post #1797 of 2001 Old 08-06-2014, 12:59 PM - Thread Starter
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The baffle comes with the kits, so this would just be making a five-sided box to mount the baffle to. But I tend to agree that I'd be time and money ahead just buying the flat packs.


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I like that foam idea if I needed to cut on the floor.
Works well cutting on saw horses too. You just need a piece of ply on the saw horses to put the foam on. The advantage is you don't have to deal with the drop so it frees up a set of hands.

Dude, are you made of leprechauns? Cause that was awesome!


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post #1798 of 2001 Old 08-06-2014, 01:13 PM
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The flat packs are a great investment if the shape fits your requirements. Somehow, about half of my cabinets need to be non-standard and there were no flat packs for Cheap Thrills - so I have built three cabinets with 3/4" MDF from scratch (Cheap Thrills), two cabinets with 3/4" plywood from scratch (subs), and two cabinets from plat packs (more subs - from parts express, but they're effectively, if not actually, identical to Erich's). I still have 4 (or 6) more cabinets to build for surrounds - and they will be from scratch as well. I would not be shy about building from flat packs, where possible.


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post #1799 of 2001 Old 08-06-2014, 01:18 PM
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Works well cutting on saw horses too. You just need a piece of ply on the saw horses to put the foam on. The advantage is you don't have to deal with the drop so it frees up a set of hands.
Ah. I never thought of that for some reason. I always employed the "put-your-left-hand-perilously-close-to-the-cutting-blade-to-hold-the-cutoff-while-stretching-to-hold-the-saw-steady-with-your-right-hand-technique". I am sure I would have OSHA violations galore....


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post #1800 of 2001 Old 08-06-2014, 01:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Ah. I never thought of that for some reason. I always employed the "put-your-left-hand-perilously-close-to-the-cutting-blade-to-hold-the-cutoff-while-stretching-to-hold-the-saw-steady-with-your-right-hand-technique". I am sure I would have OSHA violations galore....
OSHA? Meh! Sooner or later you won't have enough fingers left for this technique, so I wouldn't worry much over OSHA regulations I can say this because that's been my technique for the last 20 years too! There've been a few times where I had to count fingers afterward to make sure they were all still there.

Dude, are you made of leprechauns? Cause that was awesome!


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