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post #1801 of 2001 Old 08-06-2014, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMcG View Post
I'd absolutely go this route, without question. I can't imagine creating the little jigs and templates you'd need to make for your router, not to mention all the chiseling and sanding needed to make everything fit. Your time is worth more than $100 - $150 and I'd think you'd be happier with the final product (nothing implied about your woodworking skills, of course!).

I like that foam idea if I needed to cut on the floor.
Like he said above the baffle comes with the kit. It's CNC cut and very nice. I agree that is a must have.

But the box I would cut myself. For sure. I hate to be the one to disagree but that's just me.

It's so easy to cut a box, it's square cuts. And the side of the speakers means it's small enough to manage on the table saw and use the fence. Plus he has a track saw. No doubt about it I would cut myself. Compared to this stupid closet I've been building making a speaker box is simple stuff.


One reason I would make my own would be to substitute the 1/2" MDF with 3/4" MDF and make the box more rigid. I actually find it easier and stronger to use anyways, especially if you are brad nailing. 1/2" is tight to fit a brad in, but 3/4" is much easier to get it right. This avoids all that mess with clamps and hassle.

Since you have a track saw, I would buy a sheet of MDF. Have the store rip it a few times with intelligent dimensions for the speakers you are building. For instance when I was making a 24" cubed sub I had HD cut it into 24" strips. MDF is sized 49x97 I think anyways so you can make cuts and still get full pieces. Just take a look at the width of the speakers you are building and have them rip it like an inch over that. Just so it's easy to carry and manage by yourself when you get home. If not, I guess you could use that track saw Carry full sheets just sucks though, especially inside or down stairs.

Once you get the peices cut per the cut list, there is a trick you can do to make them ultra perfect. What I did was rip everything with my hand saw but about an 1/4 inch larger than I needed. You could do this with track saw if big pieces. Then I set up the table saw fence and ran every piece with that dimension through it at the same time without adjusting the fence. I did this for every dimension and side that was not a factory edge and the result was I ended up with identical peices in size that all fit perfectly. If you cut pieces one at a time or whatever you'll have very small variances (like the width of the blade) but small variances are not good when making perfect boxes. The other trick is to just adjust the fence just a "CH" (use imagination) closer and run all the pieces again through to ensure they are the exact same lengths.

Provided you can do something like that, or that you just make accurate cuts it's very easy to do. I did not order the flat packs for my speakers and I do not regret doing it. If you can build a theater you can build a speaker box. It's relatively easy to make straight cuts and small rectangles of wood with a table saw if you can use the fence.

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"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."

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post #1802 of 2001 Old 08-06-2014, 01:51 PM - Thread Starter
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I don't disagree that it's easy to build a box, but the material is certainly a consideration. The flatpack for the surrounds are 1/2" Baltic birch. Much nicer than MDF. I don't know about the rigidity, though. The flat packs are also rabbeted so the pieces are easier to put together with just glue and clamps since there is an edge for pieces to be clamped against.

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post #1803 of 2001 Old 08-06-2014, 02:04 PM
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Yeah if you want to go the clamp and glue route the dado cuts and stuff are nice on the flat packs. I sometimes do those myself too, but then you are getting into more work. MDF > Baltic birch for sound quality due to density of material. Baltic birch is nicer to work with perhaps (cause MDF just sucks) but again I would rather make my LCR speakers from 3/4" MDF than Baltic birch. The higher density and heavier weight is actually a good thing, the stuff that makes MDF suck to work with is the same reasons why it's great for speakers. With 3/4" and a brad nailer you'll have your boxes together in like 2 hours. The BB is because some people want to stain it.

Seriously, I chopped up all this yesterday after work AND sprayed it. [this is only about 25% of the 10 sheets in the pics]

It's your choice on the flat packs, but if you are doing 7 speakers, it's going to add up. It's just square pieces of wood. If you like BB better than MDF just buy a sheet of that instead. I think it would be a difference of $100 for flat packs or not if you are doing a full 7 speaker set up. It simply comes down to what is more important, that money or your time ? I can tell you with certainty that using tightbond or construction adhesive and then brad nailing 3/4" MDF is more than solid and you don't need dado cuts and all that. I think the brad nailer is easier. Just line up and shoot. Line up other side shoot. Shoot one or two in the middle and place it off to the side so the glue can dry. It's like 15 minute thing. You won't even spend 3 hours I bet doing them all like that, including cutting the wood.
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post #1804 of 2001 Old 08-06-2014, 02:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Do you hear that? That's the sound of analysis paralysis setting in

BTW, I like that middle set of saw horses!

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post #1805 of 2001 Old 08-06-2014, 02:10 PM
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What is the cost of the FUSION 15 flatpack BTW? Shipping seems like it would be an asskicker on something that large... For the bookshelf it's tempting but once you are going to cut one you might as well just cut them all IMO. The larger 15" offerings will be more expensive because they use a lot more wood, and also weight a lot more.

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post #1806 of 2001 Old 08-06-2014, 02:14 PM - Thread Starter
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I don't know. I suspect he'll post the flatpack the same time he posts the updated Fusion 15. I can definitely see where the cost of that would make it more attractive just to build the box since those will be MDF as well. Though apparently Erich uses higher quality MDF than we can get down at the big box store.

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post #1807 of 2001 Old 08-06-2014, 02:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J_P_A View Post
Do you hear that? That's the sound of analysis paralysis setting in

BTW, I like that middle set of saw horses!
Lol. I ran out of horses but seemed to have an over abundance of beer cases laying around.

I actually fired up the margarita machine, but it was so hot out it woudn't freeze in time.



So I made due with beer:



I need something to drink when I work. And speakers and good tunes. BEER + GOOD MUSIC = Productivity !



I am debating if I should go right now and spray the finish coat on those closet shelfs or not. I am thinking no. I'm feeling lazy.
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post #1808 of 2001 Old 08-06-2014, 02:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
…... I'm feeling lazy.
That might be related to the abundance of (empty) beer cases lying around
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post #1809 of 2001 Old 08-06-2014, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by J_P_A View Post
I don't know. I suspect he'll post the flatpack the same time he posts the updated Fusion 15. I can definitely see where the cost of that would make it more attractive just to build the box since those will be MDF as well. Though apparently Erich uses higher quality MDF than we can get down at the big box store.
It's nice, it's that superlite stuff. It's actually more like light-medium density fiberboard or LDF. The best MDF from a performance perspective is the heavy ass stuff. Heavy is good for speakers. It sucks to cut and work with, and it makes terrible dust that will give you a sore throat but density and weight are your friend. For a speaker that will literally sit in place for years you want to make it dense as you can and heavy as you can IMO. Brace it well too. Do something like this between the top end and bottom end drivers:
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post #1810 of 2001 Old 08-06-2014, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by TMcG View Post
<---- Did someone say Analysis Paralysis??
Tell me about it. When we back up and realize it really doesn't matter if he goes left or right.

It's a little money vs a little time. Both paths take you home.


Quote:
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That might be related to the abundance of (empty) beer cases lying around
Haha... at least the margarita machine is cold now. I ran the A/C and brought the garage down to 65 degrees.

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post #1811 of 2001 Old 08-06-2014, 02:45 PM - Thread Starter
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I see that is a precisely cut bracing device you are constructing there! You might have gotten a slightly cleaner cut using a push mower

Couldn't resist!

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post #1812 of 2001 Old 08-06-2014, 03:23 PM
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I see that is a precisely cut bracing device you are constructing there! You might have gotten a slightly cleaner cut using a push mower

Couldn't resist!
Lol! If it mattered I would have used the plunge cutter

Cross braces actually works almost as good btw... and it's really easy. I just use the miter saw and creep up on the ideal length. Once they glue it's good. You don't need crazy braces for bookshelfs but with 15" drivers and larger cabs you should take some effort there I think. Every 10"-12" should be braced. Once like I showed above between the top and bottom ends, and one cross brace behind the woofer should do it. Any vibration or resonance of the cabinet is lost energy, you don't want that. Treat the inside of the box with either recycled denim or that thinner stuffing stuff.

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post #1813 of 2001 Old 08-06-2014, 05:51 PM
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Don't analyse. Just cut. If the flat packs are available, flip a coin if you feel like it. If there are no flat packs, obviously don't sweat it.

See how easy that was? Your decision is made. What else can I help you with?
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post #1814 of 2001 Old 08-06-2014, 06:06 PM
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Don't analyse. Just cut.......

See how easy that was? Your decision is made. What else can I help you with?
Fred, you forgot to say..........





Cutting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




















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post #1815 of 2001 Old 08-06-2014, 06:07 PM
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Wouldn't it be MOAR BUYING!!! ?
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post #1816 of 2001 Old 08-06-2014, 06:14 PM
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Wouldn't it be MOAR BUYING!!! ?
That too!

BTW, your new avatar is wigging me out! lol

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post #1817 of 2001 Old 08-06-2014, 06:24 PM
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His new avatar used to be my home screen on my cell phone. That's one of several selfies taken by some very inquisitive macaques in Indonesia a few years ago after they "borrowed" the photographer's camera. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...444.1407374573

Moar Cutting!


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post #1818 of 2001 Old 08-06-2014, 06:32 PM
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His new avatar used to be my home screen on my cell phone. That's one of several selfies taken by some very inquisitive macaques in Indonesia a few years ago after they "borrowed" the photographer's camera. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...444.1407374573

Moar Cutting!
Thank you for not spelling out macaques phonically!
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post #1819 of 2001 Old 08-06-2014, 06:35 PM
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That too!

BTW, your new avatar is wigging me out! lol
You need a "MOAR" profile pic I think: Suggestions:










and for the record,


YES TIM IT FREAKS ME OUT TOO.
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post #1820 of 2001 Old 08-07-2014, 09:41 AM - Thread Starter
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I suppose it's time for another update.

I'd decided that I wanted to move my side surrounds to a position slightly in font of the LP. So I built two columns to go on my riser steps. Fortunately, I decided to test fit them before I started mounting columns. It turns out that my lights are perilously close to the trim on the columns (photo further down). That's fine, except that these columns would be off-center of the lights. It looked like hammered duck crap, and moving the lights would require rebuilding sections of my soffit. As much as I wanted to move those columns forward, I decided to leave them where my DE design planned for them to go. So, I just cut the bottom off those two columns. Unfortunately, this left me with another problem.

If you remember, I ran all of my wiring in my riser with the plan that it would go from the soffit to the riser in a column. Well, now I needed to get these wires inside the box I'd built for columns…. That's easy enough to make happen


And here's the columns on one side of the room.



Here is a picture of how close the lights are to the columns. I did shift the back columns further apart per Nyal's recommendations. I centered them under the lights, so it looked intentional. Imagine that light just off the corner of the crown, and that's what the columns on the steps looked like.





This was the limiting factor on where the columns could go


One more update to come before we're at the current state of things!

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post #1821 of 2001 Old 08-07-2014, 09:54 AM
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You, sir, are making impressive progress. Very nice!


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post #1822 of 2001 Old 08-07-2014, 10:31 AM - Thread Starter
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You, sir, are making impressive progress. Very nice!
Thanks! I'm hoping for some more time to work on it soon!

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post #1823 of 2001 Old 08-07-2014, 10:57 AM
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Works well cutting on saw horses too. You just need a piece of ply on the saw horses to put the foam on. The advantage is you don't have to deal with the drop so it frees up a set of hands.
Just so I make sure I understand right... when doing this, you adjust the depth of your saw blade, to be just deep enough to cut through your main board. It is a little deeper, hence the foam board gets cut...

And if doing on saw horses, then, put a piece of plywood under the foam board, which then provides the support needed to 'catch' the cut piece?

Sounds like a great plan to me...

Thanks!

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post #1824 of 2001 Old 08-07-2014, 11:06 AM - Thread Starter
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I think we're on the same page. Just to clarify, I line up the base ply and the foam board. I lay the piece I plan to cut on top of that so that there is no overhang. That way, when I make my cut, nothing falls anywhere. Both sides are still laying on the foam (which is supported underneath by the base ply).

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post #1825 of 2001 Old 08-07-2014, 11:23 AM
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Yep, that is what I was thinking... very cool idea... I have always struggled with the cut piece!

Thanks!

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post #1826 of 2001 Old 08-07-2014, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
What is the cost of the FUSION 15 flatpack BTW? Shipping seems like it would be an asskicker on something that large... For the bookshelf it's tempting but once you are going to cut one you might as well just cut them all IMO. The larger 15" offerings will be more expensive because they use a lot more wood, and also weight a lot more.
Not to rehash yesterdays topic but I have an example the flat packs for the 1099s were $69 each and $78 for shipping. So $285 for 3 of them. 2 pieces of MDF is $66 + some tite bond or PL. I already have a brad nailer so I will be building mine.
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post #1827 of 2001 Old 08-07-2014, 05:41 PM - Thread Starter
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It certainly makes a lot more economic sense on the larger boxes, but the smaller boxes are only $26 ea. so it's a bit tougher decision. At least for me

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post #1828 of 2001 Old 08-07-2014, 05:56 PM - Thread Starter
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What terminals would you guys use for the surrounds? Speakons or just plain 'ol threaded binding posts? If you like the speakons, can you point me to which ones? There's a lot of them to choose from.

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post #1829 of 2001 Old 08-07-2014, 06:22 PM
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I'm drinking at the bar watching game on my phone so no links till I get home and sober up but you want brand name speakon... Anything less is uncivilized.


Go to parts express or amazon and search "neutrik speakon" you'll get the right ones.
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post #1830 of 2001 Old 08-07-2014, 07:30 PM
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Be careful with ordering speakons - some of them are labeled PCB and have these tiny connections on the back that are meant to be soldered to a circuit board, I suppose. Don't get those. Make sure you get the kind with the barrel and set screw for each conductor.

It was recommended to me to get the 4-pole, for my subs, but I think it just makes things more confusing unless you plan to use all four. Of course for surrounds you'd have to be bi-amping to need four conductors, so I would get 2-pole for your application.

That said, I will get 5-way binding posts from Erich for my surrounds; they're much more compact.
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