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post #1921 of 1947 Old 08-15-2014, 07:48 AM
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If I understood you right you want to try to make your own Rosette block ? And use a router and a bit to add some design to it, while also cutting out the center hole ?

You'd want a trim router and appropriate router bit for that. Full size plunge router seems akin to hunting with a grenade launcher. That's a lot of power to control for a small delicate piece of wood. A smaller trim router seems a lot easier to control, especially if you are trying to go around in a circle.

Are you planning to paint these? With latex paint ?

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post #1922 of 1947 Old 08-15-2014, 07:58 AM - Thread Starter
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That's almost what I have in mind. I'm looking at about an 8" rosette block (I think). So this is either a little bigger, or smaller than what I've found online. I'm guessing the routed, decorative circle will need to be around 6" diameter. So that's the circle I'd need to route. I don't, however, need to cut the hole for the light with the router. I can do that with a jigsaw and get close enough for what I need. I was thinking I could route the circular design in the stock before I cut out the square. That way I've got a little more material to support the router. Once the circular part is routed, then I can cut out the square, route the edges, cut the center with a jig saw, and voila!

I am planning to paint this. I haven't decided what color yet.

Dude, are you made of leprechauns? Cause that was awesome!

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post #1923 of 1947 Old 08-15-2014, 08:30 AM
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You don't want a circle design IMO. The light can is already circle so you don't have much space to work with. How about a square design that holds the circle light in the center? You could take a small piece of MDF and make it a raised panel, then out some stiles around it. Think mini fancy cabinet door looking. Use some trim on the stiles edge/ raised panel transition to make it really pop. Cheap too. Some MDF scraps and some cheap wood for stiles like pine is all you need.

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post #1924 of 1947 Old 08-15-2014, 09:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Hmmmm.. I was locked into the rosette designs from a few posts up, so I was trying to duplicate something like that. however, I could get a similar result by just staking a couple layers like DW mentioned. The light already has a couple different heights between the bezel and the lens, so that gives some visual interest very much like the earlier rosettes. Going with a square design like that would be MUCH easier to build!

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post #1925 of 1947 Old 08-15-2014, 09:18 AM
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You have a panel raising bit kit for your router ? And a router table ?

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post #1926 of 1947 Old 08-15-2014, 11:26 AM - Thread Starter
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I've got the table, but no bits. Of course, Rockler delivers to L.A., so that can be remedied.
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post #1927 of 1947 Old 08-15-2014, 11:40 AM
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You could make it an octagon if you don't mind the extra complications lol... A raised panel octagon with a light can in the center might be cool. And some extra trim to enhance the depth/height lines. Not expensive but you'll spend a day on it if your new to raising panels. Lots more cuts and figuring out than square.

I guess I should ask if you are chasing cheap, or easy, or maximum looks? They are at odds to some degree.

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post #1928 of 1947 Old 08-16-2014, 12:14 PM - Thread Starter
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You could make it an octagon if you don't mind the extra complications lol... A raised panel octagon with a light can in the center might be cool. And some extra trim to enhance the depth/height lines. Not expensive but you'll spend a day on it if your new to raising panels. Lots more cuts and figuring out than square.

I guess I should ask if you are chasing cheap, or easy, or maximum looks? They are at odds to some degree.
I wonder if I really need to do a raised panel, or if I need to do the frame, and let the light be the "raised" part in the center. I'm thinking if I did a raised panel, then put the light in the center, the light will actually be lower than the rest of the box, and there's not really any need for that.

Dude, are you made of leprechauns? Cause that was awesome!

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post #1929 of 1947 Old 08-16-2014, 12:23 PM
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I wonder if I really need to do a raised panel, or if I need to do the frame, and let the light be the "raised" part in the center. I'm thinking if I did a raised panel, then put the light in the center, the light will actually be lower than the rest of the box, and there's not really any need for that.

You're in dire need of TMcG Google Sketchup!!!
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post #1930 of 1947 Old 08-16-2014, 12:27 PM - Thread Starter
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More progress. I got the last of the MDF for the wainscoting up.





Notice the area around the door doesn't have the MDF at the bottom. I haven't completely decided what I'll do there. I don't have the space to give up 7" to the wainscoting. That area is already a little crowded, and I don't want it to be any more claustrophobic by crowding the door more. I'll either put my wainscoting trim directly onto the drywall, or I'll add the MDF on the bottom directly to the drywall to give my fabric panels a little more room.

Really the only interesting bit of the process was the panel at the back of the room. Mfusik asked about the column spacing back there, and it's 110". So a single piece of MDF was too short. I joined them in the middle.



Here is a closeup of the seam after I'd put it together. Both panels were cut with the track saw, and one may have been in that video from earlier. It actually would have fit a little tighter, but I think I caught a piece of trash between the bottom of one of the pieces and the cleat on the floor. The board on the right sticks out about 1/32"-1/16" past the one of the left at the bottom. By the time I realized it, that board was pretty thoroughly attached, so I'll just sand it a bit.



If I was planning to do a stain grade joint between two boards, and I planned to use the track saw, I'd probably adjust the foot a bit to take some of the slack out of the fit between the saw and the track. There's an adjustment for it, and I fiddled with it briefly, but now that I've been using the saw a bit, I can tell I need to fine tune it a bit.
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post #1931 of 1947 Old 08-16-2014, 12:28 PM - Thread Starter
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You're in dire need of TMcG Google Sketchup!!!
Indeed! I suspect the developer is quite busy with the new job, though. Perhaps that would be called, TMcGPayForTheater
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post #1932 of 1947 Old 08-16-2014, 12:52 PM
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More progress. I got the last of the MDF for the wainscoting up.


Notice the area around the door doesn't have the MDF at the bottom. I haven't completely decided what I'll do there. I don't have the space to give up 7" to the wainscoting. That area is already a little crowded, and I don't want it to be any more claustrophobic by crowding the door more. I'll either put my wainscoting trim directly onto the drywall, or I'll add the MDF on the bottom directly to the drywall to give my fabric panels a little more room.

Really the only interesting bit of the process was the panel at the back of the room. Mfusik asked about the column spacing back there, and it's 110". So a single piece of MDF was too short. I joined them in the middle.



Here is a closeup of the seam after I'd put it together. Both panels were cut with the track saw, and one may have been in that video from earlier. It actually would have fit a little tighter, but I think I caught a piece of trash between the bottom of one of the pieces and the cleat on the floor. The board on the right sticks out about 1/32"-1/16" past the one of the left at the bottom. By the time I realized it, that board was pretty thoroughly attached, so I'll just sand it a bit.



If I was planning to do a stain grade joint between two boards, and I planned to use the track saw, I'd probably adjust the foot a bit to take some of the slack out of the fit between the saw and the track. There's an adjustment for it, and I fiddled with it briefly, but now that I've been using the saw a bit, I can tell I need to fine tune it a bit.


Boy, you have MAD photographing skills! So clear and detailed.............I have to give up on my iPhone and tablet!
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post #1933 of 1947 Old 08-16-2014, 12:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Hmmm…. I'm not sure if I can hear the sarcasm or not, particularly since the pictures from the last several updates were made with my iPhone?!?!?

If you look close, which I'm not suggesting, they're all blurry , but I didn't want to leave the DSLR down in the basement with a potential dust storm at any moment.

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post #1934 of 1947 Old 08-17-2014, 03:12 PM
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Hmmm…. I'm not sure if I can hear the sarcasm or not, particularly since the pictures from the last several updates were made with my iPhone?!?!?

If you look close, which I'm not suggesting, they're all blurry , but I didn't want to leave the DSLR down in the basement with a potential dust storm at any moment.
No sarcasm at all.........being serious!

Trying my luck with photographing outside......thought you might appreciate our church member's baptism's outside!





Better? Or worse?



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post #1935 of 1947 Old 08-17-2014, 03:19 PM - Thread Starter
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That's awesome! Life changing day for someone!

My experience taking photos with my phone is it comes down to light. The more the better which makes photos of a home theater tough. Especially once it's painted.

Dude, are you made of leprechauns? Cause that was awesome!

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post #1936 of 1947 Old 08-17-2014, 03:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Oh, and that picture is certainly an improvement although it does look like that man in front of you has painted toe nails. I'm not judging.... Just pointing it out

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post #1937 of 1947 Old 08-17-2014, 04:05 PM
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Oh, and that picture is certainly an improvement although it does look like that man in front of you has painted toe nails. I'm not judging.... Just pointing it out

Too funny! I noticed that too!

BTW, that's NOT me!! I'm a MANLY man!

Well, you missed my small nibble of sarcasm......actual baptism is being obscured by tree limbs.......just small play on my lack of photographing skills............thought you'd catch it!
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post #1938 of 1947 Old 08-17-2014, 04:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Well, I did notice that, but the way everyone has been piling on DW's photo skills in your thread I thought I'd give you a pass

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post #1939 of 1947 Old 08-17-2014, 04:27 PM
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Well, I did notice that, but the way everyone has been piling on DW's photo skills in your thread I thought I'd give you a pass












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post #1940 of 1947 Old 08-17-2014, 07:38 PM - Thread Starter
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^^^ I think you and I would get along very well, sir! I find humor in most things in life, and when it's not there to begin with, I try my best to put it there


On another note, this ATMOS at home business has me considering some revisions to my layout. The more details we get, the more I question other aspects of my room design. Oh I feel the paralysis setting in yet again

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post #1941 of 1947 Old 08-17-2014, 08:22 PM
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^^^ I think you and I would get along very well, sir! I find humor in most things in life, and when it's not there to begin with, I try my best to put it there


On another note, this ATMOS at home business has me considering some revisions to my layout. The more details we get, the more I question other aspects of my room design. Oh I feel the paralysis setting in yet again

Same here......

I tend to find humor in most things in life..........the catch is trying to have receiver understand!

It's also very easy to laugh at myself.........no huge ego.......but I am stubborn!

Sometime my sense of humor is dark........blame it on two British gals that raised me......my Mother and old school Grandmum! That old bird was total stiff upper lip!


Watched "Saving Mr. Banks" last night and Emma Thompson's character reminded me so much of my Grandmum from childhood. I was in stitches and my wife finally had a little insight what I've been telling her for 28 years!

Great movie by the way.
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post #1942 of 1947 Old 08-18-2014, 04:30 AM
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^^^ I think you and I would get along very well, sir! I find humor in most things in life, and when it's not there to begin with, I try my best to put it there


On another note, this ATMOS at home business has me considering some revisions to my layout. The more details we get, the more I question other aspects of my room design. Oh I feel the paralysis setting in yet again
ATMOS is 50% a fad and excuse to sell you an AVR; I wouldn't change a thing. Keep going straight forward.

The Atmos channels are matrixed out of other surround channels much the way the old pro logic matrix out the rears and center from a stereo source. They have no mid bass or low bass, and very little directivity. When I saw gravity in Atmos it wasn't eye opening for me at all. It's cool... And the techno geek in me wants it... But I wouldn't go reworking your theater for it at this juncture.

You can grab any small 4" flat driver and mount it on the ceiling and get 90% of the way there. Just run the speaker wires and let them dangle there for now. If you haven't run them try to snake them into the coffers or whatever just to get the wires up there. That's all you should do for now.

When the next generation Atmos hits, and also DTS-UHD, you'll have a lot more info and you'll find a lot more bang for your buck. I'd suggest letting others blaze this new trail for you, in two years your theater will be done and you can do your first upgrade.

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post #1943 of 1947 Old 08-19-2014, 07:00 AM
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I think from all the things I am reading you will see a lot of commercial products for ATMOS at CEDIA. You'll know a lot more in a couple weeks.

I know JBL makes a 90 degree dispersion waveguide that might work good for a DIY project. Since you only need to dig down to 180hz, the driver component would be minimal. (4"?)

I have a feeling normal in ceiling speakers should work fine too, if you just choose one with the right dispersion. And the DIY crowd should have something soon.

There is pro audio stuff like this: http://www.parts-express.com/bc-12cx...-ohm--294-5769

50 to 20,000 Hz with 98 dB 1W/1m and 200 watts real power handling. I'd imagine this would suffice if you can accommodate a backer box with the required depth. The price isn't totally crazy, B&C isn't junk it's really good stuff. Depth is 7.05". Is there a better solution out there ? These are probably WAY overkill for what you really need.

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post #1944 of 1947 Old 08-19-2014, 07:28 AM - Thread Starter
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I think when this all shakes out I'll probably be looking at something on ceiling. Getting a backer box into my ceiling is going to be tough. I have joists running one direction, 2x furring running the other, and then my channel running the same direction as the joists. Getting a backer box of any size between all that is an exercise in futility I'm afraid.

I'll be interested to see some actual installation recommendations. I'm anxious to see what Dolby will say.

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post #1945 of 1947 Old 08-19-2014, 07:36 AM
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I think when this all shakes out I'll probably be looking at something on ceiling. Getting a backer box into my ceiling is going to be tough. I have joists running one direction, 2x furring running the other, and then my channel running the same direction as the joists. Getting a backer box of any size between all that is an exercise in futility I'm afraid.

I'll be interested to see some actual installation recommendations. I'm anxious to see what Dolby will say.
Do you have an idea on what depth you can accommodate reasonably ? Building a normal speaker (not in wall) is probably the easiest to design, build and install. It's also got predictable performance, so if you are using a DIY design or something that's a bonus.

I've seen some stuff like this: http://www.parts-express.com/eminenc...-x-90--290-713

Bi-Radial Horn 90 x 90 :
Specifications: • Throat diameter: 1" • Driver mounting: 1-3/8"-18 TPI • Nominal coverage: 90° horizontal x 90° vertical • Lowest recommended crossover: 1,300 Hz • Dimensions: 5-15/16" H x 5-15/16" W x 4-1/4" D • Cutout dimensions: 4-1/8" H x 4-1/8" W.

That seems like a pretty good option. Throw in any old 5" or 6" driver like a dayton or eminence or whatever, and tune it for high efficiency by intentionally sacrificing instead the LF extension, and cross it over to something like a DNA-205 (like in the FUSION 8/6)

I guess actually you could just take the FUSION 6, swap the EOS waveguide for the 90x90 waveguide, and then mod the box to be wider, taller and less deep. That's an easy option. It would timber match and integrate really well with the rest of your speaker set up, and provide the atmos specific specs required. Unless I don't understand something about ATMOS, which is entirely possible ... lol

The question I had was the 90 degree dispersion is important in both directions ? Or just one ?

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post #1946 of 1947 Old 08-19-2014, 07:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Oddly enough, I'm not too concerned with how they would look on the ceiling. The ceiling will be dark, so I think painting them ceiling color will make them blend in. I was thinking somewhere in the neighborhood of 7"-8" is what I'll shoot for. That's how tall my soffit is, though they likely will not be next to the soffit, so I don't guess that really matters either. I'll certainly look for as shallow a design as I can find.

EDIT: I'm not as concerned about timbre matching as others, though I may end up regretting it. I've been thinking I would use the Volt coaxes for my ceiling speakers, and I asked Nyal about it. He said it would be a compromise certainly, but didn't recommend I go to coaxes for the rest of my surrounds. Right now I'm hanging my hat on EQ being able to tackle the timbre matching issue.

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post #1947 of 1947 Old 08-19-2014, 08:38 PM
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Oddly enough, I'm not too concerned with how they would look on the ceiling. The ceiling will be dark, so I think painting them ceiling color will make them blend in. I was thinking somewhere in the neighborhood of 7"-8" is what I'll shoot for. That's how tall my soffit is, though they likely will not be next to the soffit, so I don't guess that really matters either. I'll certainly look for as shallow a design as I can find.

EDIT: I'm not as concerned about timbre matching as others, though I may end up regretting it. I've been thinking I would use the Volt coaxes for my ceiling speakers, and I asked Nyal about it. He said it would be a compromise certainly, but didn't recommend I go to coaxes for the rest of my surrounds. Right now I'm hanging my hat on EQ being able to tackle the timbre matching issue.

You are definitely thinking along the correct lines......

As long as your speakers are close, eq can bring them all into similar sound signatures.

BTW, Wow......isn't Mfusick a DIY book of knowledge?

I'll say it again, you're over-thinking Atmos implementation......
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