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post #2101 of 2116 Old 02-20-2015, 09:13 PM
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The first shipment of acoustic treatments arrived last night. I probably won't take pictures until I put them up because I want to leave them in the box so they don't get beat up. I will say I'm a little disappointed in the flutter echo treatments. They are made of cheap styrofoam (think $.99 styrofoam cooler). If I had read the product description more closely I would have realized that. Fortunately, they weren't too expensive. If I decide to go naked on the treatments, I'll DIY something that looks better for sure.

The other Auralex treatments I got are more along the lines of what I was expecting. They're a thin plastic. I'll have to decide if I think people will be tempted to poke them and bend them if I leave them showing on the wall. I've asked Nyal if I can fill them with spray foam, but haven't heard back. I'll keep you guys posted. EDIT: That was quick. Nyal Vetoed that idea

My ceiling treatments should be here next week. Those are the ones I'm most excited to see!
Roger Dressler told me Keith Yates told him to back fill plastic diffusers with just household insulation and caulk edges down for air-tight seal. There............cheap tip!
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post #2102 of 2116 Old 02-21-2015, 09:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Roger Dressler told me Keith Yates told him to back fill plastic diffusers with just household insulation and caulk edges down for air-tight seal. There............cheap tip!
^^^This is what Nyal spec'ed. I just didn't know if this was to prevent the panels from resonating or if it was part of the room decay treatments. Yeah, Nyal wants them filled with loose insulation

Dude, are you made of leprechauns? Cause that was awesome!

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post #2103 of 2116 Old 02-21-2015, 09:12 AM
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^^^This is what Nyal spec'ed. I just didn't know if this was to prevent the panels from resonating or if it was part of the room decay treatments. Yeah, Nyal wants them filled with loose insulation
From my understanding.........both. Insulation helps lower frequency diffusion characteristics.
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post #2104 of 2116 Old 02-21-2015, 09:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Yes, however, if Nyal had only considered the insulation to prevent the treatments from resonating, I wanted to fill them with spray foam to make them stiffer. They would be easy to press and dent as they are. Unfortunately, spray foam provides little to no absorption, so I'll have to go with the loose fill in order to provide the amount of absorption Nyal wants in the room.

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post #2105 of 2116 Old 02-25-2015, 01:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Is there an easy way to cut outlet boxes in 3/4" MDF, or do I need to plan on using a drill and jigsaw?

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post #2106 of 2116 Old 02-25-2015, 01:32 PM
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I've been using drill and reciprocating saw in my soffits - 1/2" OSB + 5/8" drywall. I'm sure a jigsaw would be neater, but I'm getting reasonably good with my reciprocating saw.
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post #2107 of 2116 Old 02-25-2015, 01:53 PM
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Is there an easy way to cut outlet boxes in 3/4" MDF, or do I need to plan on using a drill and jigsaw?
Drill and jig saw is crude approach. Pain if you have a lot of them.

Or make a template and use a trace bit in your router. An upspiral bit in a full sizes router works really well for me, but if you don't have dust collection on your router you might consider someone standing there with a shop vac.
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post #2108 of 2116 Old Yesterday, 07:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Bought a rotozip. I figure by the time I finish with the basement it will be worthwhile.

Next question, should I put on the sand and sealer before or after I sand and fill all the nail holes and gaps in my wainscoting.

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post #2109 of 2116 Old Yesterday, 07:55 PM
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Don't take my word for it, but "after." The filler needs sealer too.
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post #2110 of 2116 Old Yesterday, 07:59 PM
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^^^^ Yep. Sealer over everything will present a consistent surface to your coating.
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post #2111 of 2116 Old Today, 10:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Very good.

Any recommendations on sealer and filler?

And another question, are GFCIs required in conjunction with CAFCIs in a theater in the basement? I don't think so, but I figure I'd better check.

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post #2112 of 2116 Old Today, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by J_P_A View Post
Bought a rotozip. I figure by the time I finish with the basement it will be worthwhile.

Next question, should I put on the sand and sealer before or after I sand and fill all the nail holes and gaps in my wainscoting.
I've had poor luck with the rotozip.

Good doesn't always triumph over evil. Just like that rotozip blade won't triumph over MDF. It's gonna get its ass kicked. If you get three done before it is just burning it's way through I'll be very impressed.

I reccomend a 1/4" high end up spriral bit. Frued brand or the like. $20. Worth it.

MDF is evil. It's evil power against sharp blades is legendary. My rotozip effort was an epic fail. Either the bit wore out instantly, or it heated up and snapped with the cheap bits.

Is it 3/4"?

1/2" you'll have some luck but 3/4" is tough sledding.

What rotozip you get ?
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post #2113 of 2116 Old Today, 02:31 PM
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For your sealer you can go a couple directions depending on how perfect and what end effect you want.

One option that's easy enough is using Shellac BIN primer to seal, painting with latex paint, then finishing with polycrylic protective finish.

Another possibly better option is laquer sanding sealer, sold at most home stores, you can apply it with brush , roller or an HVLP gun. The big plus side its very forgiving to work with, very fast turn around time depending on your humidity....sand with 220 grit between coats, ( 2 is usually OK).

I wouldn't use water base on it, at least not as a sealer.

I usually use Zinsser BIN or Zinsser Cover Stain. BIN is available in a aerosol, Cover Stain may also be available in aerosol, haven't looked for that.

You can also thin wood glue with water and brush it on the cut edges first, which works pretty well to get them to stop soaking up the cover. I've had good luck with just water and wood glue on the cut edges as a first step, otherwise a couple coats is needed.

Don't use water based sheet rock compound or spackling paste as commonly advised, it can raise the grain of MDF and will add to your sanding adventures. The finished product is basically dried out mud and it will crack from vibration. Better to buy a quart of clear woodfinishing lacquer to seal the wood and then an acetone based woof filler to get a joint free surface.

Automotive "bondo" filler might work well if you have a lot of filling to do, it is the same family as fibeglass resin and has some kind of molecular bonding thing going on. probably stands up a lot better to bass wave vibration than sheetrock mud in the long run, and it's not easily damaged.

I think the Zinser BIN is your best option for easy. It's sealer and primer in one. You should be able to find it at most hardware stores or wood working places.
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post #2114 of 2116 Old Today, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
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Very good.

Any recommendations on sealer and filler?

And another question, are GFCIs required in conjunction with CAFCIs in a theater in the basement? I don't think so, but I figure I'd better check.
Minwax sanding sealer is what BIG always uses IIRC. For my nursery wainscot project, I used an oil-based Zinsser BIN primer (with the red label). Kilz makes something similar. I think you know this, but with MDF it must be oil or laquer-based for the primer layer. I chose oil-based because it was less caustic.

Regarding the code.....GFCI circuits use a standard breaker and the GFCI at the first receptacle location, then cascading to all other receptacle locations with standard receptacles of the correct amperage. For CAFCIs, install the CAFCI breaker in the panel and use normal receptacles throughout.

One other note....code now requires "TR" (Tamper Resistant) receptacles for new areas. I had to remove all of my brand new standard ones and replace with TRs.

Here's the code:
All nonlocking type 15A and 20A, 125V receptacles in the following areas of a dwelling unit [210.52] must be listed as tamper-resistant [406.12].

Wall space — 210.52(A)
Small-appliance circuit — 210.52(B)
Countertop space — 210.52(C)
Bathroom area — 210.52(D)
Outdoors — 210.52(E)
Laundry area — 210.52(F)
Garage and outbuildings — 210.52(G)
Hallways — 210.52(H)
Exception: Receptacles in the following locations aren’t required to be tamper-resistant:

Receptacles located more than 5½ ft above the floor.
Receptacles that are part of a luminaire or appliance.
A receptacle located within dedicated space for an appliance that in normal use isn’t easily moved from one place to another.
Nongrounding receptacles used for replacements as permitted in 406.4(D)(2)(a).
Nonlocking type 15A and 20A, 125V receptacles in guest rooms and guest suites must be listed as tamper-resistant [406.13]. In addition, nonlocking type 15A and 20A, 125V receptacles in child care facilities must be listed as tamper-resistant [406.14].
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post #2115 of 2116 Unread Today, 06:45 PM
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I thought you needed both cafci and gcfi as they serve different functions.
http://www.afcisafety.org/qa.html

This tells a little about them, and my friend who does electric inspections told me I needed both. That might be a county/ state specific thing, but seems logical given the different functions.
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post #2116 of 2116 Unread Today, 06:48 PM
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I thought you needed both cafci and gcfi as they serve different functions.
http://www.afcisafety.org/qa.html

This tells a little about them, and my friend who does electric inspections told me I needed both. That might be a county/ state specific thing, but seems logical given the different functions.
GFCI is still the same and only for wet locations - bathrooms, kitchens, garage, outside, etc. CAFCI for most of the rest.

You can elect to use a GFCI breaker vs. a GFCI receptacle at the first drop on a standard breaker....but most electricians will run it the 'old' way since the GFCI breaker is $45 vs. the $5 for a GFCI receptacle.
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