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post #2281 of 2300 Old 04-26-2015, 06:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J_P_A View Post
I appreciate the feedback. Whatever it was seems to have spontaneously resolved itself. I unhooked everything and took it to my living room. No issues in there. Took one of the Volts from the theater, again, no issues. Took everything back to the theater and hooked stuff up one piece at a time. Everything is now connected as it was before, and everything sounds fine.

No idea what was going on. I'd rather be lucky than good any day, though
Do you believe in "Gemlins?" Maybe one got frighten and ran away!

Alabama men do/can scare them away!

BTW, I've always thought of 'Bama men having thick, long beards.........is that stereotyping?
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post #2282 of 2300 Old 04-28-2015, 02:11 PM - Thread Starter
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A quick update while I am procrastinating.

The flip toggles are a bit of a blessing and a curse. I think they are plenty strong for the job. I have four going into the drywall for each bracket. I think those four bolts probably exceed the clamping force of all the screws holding the drywall to the ceiling. That thought is what finally made me comfortable with them. No idea if I'm right. Just a feeling.

The problem is those flip toggles are a nightmare to use! I bought the ones that Fastenal carries after reading some disparaging reviews about the HD versions. The first problem I ran into was not having enough space between my drywall and wood framing. I worked around it, but I had to force a few into the holes and trim the bolts. The next problem I'll see if anyone can figure out from the below photo...



A little cliff hangar there

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post #2283 of 2300 Old 04-28-2015, 02:59 PM
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Unhappy

Quote:
Originally Posted by J_P_A View Post
A little cliff hangar there
Where's the speaker wire?

Tim
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post #2284 of 2300 Old 04-28-2015, 03:23 PM
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Maybe I'm a dufus, but I don't see how the mount fits together. Does the load just hang in a hook on the bracket, or do you have to have a tool between the wall and the load?
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post #2285 of 2300 Old 04-28-2015, 04:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Sorry, that's a bad picture of the mount. It's two pieces, and you can't see the top bolt hole in the speaker half of the bracket. I'll post some pictures later of how I got that to work.

In the mean time, I ended up just using the "wing" part of the toggle bolt. I took the plastic part off, and had to use masons string to hold the toggle behind the wall while I threaded the bolts. If I used the plastic part as intended, the toggles would either spin behind the wall or it would just break the plastic and drop the toggle behind the wall.

I spent the better part of the day messing with those toggle bolts. I'm sure it was just operator error, but I was running out of bolts faster than I was figuring it out

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post #2286 of 2300 Old 04-30-2015, 07:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Toggle Bolts = Fail

These are the flip toggles I decided to use.



You can see on the left I've already broken one off. That was the first one where I discovered that there was not enough space between the drywall and the framing to actually flip the toggle. In some places I was able to squeeze the toggle past the framing, and in others where the 2x's were stacked to support overhead beams, well, it just wasn't happening.

I had to improvise. I ended up breaking the plastic off the majority of the toggle bolts and running some masons string through the holes. I didn't take a photo, but if you think it through, you can route the string so that when you pull it the toggle lines up so that you can start the bolt. Here's a photo of a set of bolts for one surround mount.



As a quick reminder, these are the brackets I'm using. I decided to flip them around and use the four-bolt part of the bracket on the wall, and the two-bolt part on the speaker.



To mount the brackets to the speakers I went with hurricane nuts. I read up on them a bit and found that it's extremely important to
  1. Get the holes placed properly
  2. Make sure the holes are perpendicular to the surface
  3. Use an adhesive on the nuts
With those items in mind, I first used the brackets and a center punch to mark the hole locations.





I don't have a drill press, and didn't really want to deal with the setup on one anyway. So I decided to get creative with what I have. A router with a plunge base is a lot like a drill press, anyway, so that's what I used.





With the holes drilled, I added the hurricane nuts. I used a flux brush to dampen the MDF a bit, then put a dab of Gorilla glue under the nut flange just before I tightened it down the last bit. I just used the mounting bracket on the outside of the box and a bolt through the hurricane nut to pull the nut down and hold it in place while the glue set. I didn't see any point in doing this in multiple steps.


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post #2287 of 2300 Old Yesterday, 07:41 PM - Thread Starter
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I've got two Sentinels together! One of the studs was not threaded on one end, so the third Sentinel is waiting on hardware to put the compression driver on the waveguide. It's assembled otherwise.

We've picked out carpet, and I'm seriously considering biting the bullet and buying the screen..... I feel like I'm getting close to watching a movie, but the room is going to be ugly to begin with! Right now my plan is to leave off the treatments and fabric. I'd like to add the treatments in steps, and measure, and listen to the difference as I progress.

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post #2288 of 2300 Old Today, 05:54 AM
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Cool idea about the treatments but work will slow down if you install the speakers and projector.
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post #2289 of 2300 Old Today, 07:23 AM - Thread Starter
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I think it will be difficult for progress to slow much more than it has already

BTW, I have a little tweeter hiss from the Fusions. When there is no other sound in the room I can hear it at the LP, but it's easily masked by anything else going on. Any thoughts on how to deal with it? I've got them connected directly to my Marantz AVR. I'm considering getting a RCA to XLR cable to drive them from my Sherbourn amps to see if the Marantz pre-outs are cleaner than the amp section. I don't think going from unbalanced to balanced will necessarily buy me anything.

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post #2290 of 2300 Old Today, 08:17 AM
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Your speakers are passive so tweeter hiss is rare- it's got to be in the amp or interconnects is my thought.

The simple thing. Carry one speaker and the AVR into another room- plug it into a different outlet. Hook up one speaker wire. Listen. Don't even hook up any sources. See what happens. If it's gone- you can now start trouble shooting. If it's not- you can too. But you'll know where to proceed to.

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post #2291 of 2300 Old Today, 08:18 AM
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How do they sound? Did you measure them? ( I would)

I messed up my fusion 8 and had a dip at 3khz- never really noticed it until I measured. The mic tells you all the truth.

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"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
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post #2292 of 2300 Unread Today, 08:45 AM - Thread Starter
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I only noticed the hiss as I was getting ready to quit for the evening. I haven't had a chance to start troubleshooting yet. I'll run down all the obvious stuff first and see where that takes me. I've got several different circuits I can try in the equipment room as well as a UPS. I can also take one of the speakers up to my living room and try it on a different AVR. I'm dreading having to run this down

The speakers sound good. Still no bass, but that's expected (once I looked at the FR again ). I was really itching to measure these things, but I just didn't have time. I hooked them up, played about five minutes of music, and then packed up my toys and went to bed. I'll give more impressions as I spend a little more time with them. So far I'm happy with what I've got for the price I paid!!!

I have to get my PJ hooked up so that I can see how the receiver is setup. I have no idea what filtering or EQ the AVR is applying, and the Marantz has very little going on on the front display. I also need to read up on setting up REW again. I've only used it a few times and realized later that it wasn't doing what it was supposed to.

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post #2293 of 2300 Unread Today, 09:06 AM
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Yeah you won't get a good idea of things until you start measuring

Ears lie. Mics don't.

You'll think they sound "ok" then measure a problem like a reversed tweeter... LMAO. It's happened many times.

You are right on the bass thing- you basically have 80hz and up as a design choice on those- the sacrifice of under 80hz came with the bonus of efficiency. Not a bad thing IMO. Just get some subs that can cross. 60/70/80/90hz all good places with those 15" woofs so you be ok.

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post #2294 of 2300 Unread Today, 09:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Initially I was just planning on a horn to cover everything down low, but since these fall off so quickly at 80, I may end up with some MBMs as well. I am gradually accepting the fact that the bass is what I've been after all the time

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post #2295 of 2300 Unread Today, 09:56 AM
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I would think you might need to check how your gains are all set with regard to the hiss.
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post #2296 of 2300 Unread Today, 09:59 AM - Thread Starter
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The only thing in the loop ATM is the AVR. I'm playing musing from my iPhone straight into the AVR. I only have the two L/R connected. I'm not sure if there is a gain adjustment on the AVR.

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post #2297 of 2300 Unread Today, 10:05 AM
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Probably just the channel level trims.
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post #2298 of 2300 Unread Today, 10:13 AM - Thread Starter
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hmmmm... Just another excuse for me to hookup the PJ

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post #2299 of 2300 Unread Today, 10:21 AM
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Yup. And if you don't go ahead and hook it up, you'll have a finished theater years before I do. We can't have that, can we?
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post #2300 of 2300 Unread Today, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J_P_A View Post
Initially I was just planning on a horn to cover everything down low, but since these fall off so quickly at 80, I may end up with some MBMs as well. I am gradually accepting the fact that the bass is what I've been after all the time
Pick up a pair of JBL 2226 woofers on ebay refurbished. They run about $125-$150 each. Put them in a box that matches the width and depth of the FUSION 15 so it works like a speaker stand, or put it above it.

I can show you a pic of mine if you want to see. You could either port the 2226 at like 43hz or so... or just leave it sealed. They won't run out of of juice before your bass solution or FUSION 15 does nor leave you wanting considering your conservative nature.

Mine are stupidly loud. I hit 100db outside without much effort, I wasn't even on reference "0" on the pre/pro or max gain on the amp.

If the Fusion 15 is ported you'd want to consider the phase and tune of that- so it works with the phase and tune of you MBM. Otherwise just go sealed and DSP it proper. The JBL2226 really wanted a big ported box though- 45hz or 50hz tune would get you what you want. Then you can roll off the Fusion 15 early if you have a phase problem or adjust it with DSP. I'm not sure what the tune is- but I would imagine something where you cross the FUSION 15 at 80hz or so, and run the JBL down to 50hz or so.... filling out the bottom and crossing better to your subs which might run say 60hz and down.

Depending on what subs you end up doing you might not need MBM at all- If you can cross the subs high enough. If you can't then MBM can fill in- but it seems excessive given your requirements. You can literally play soccer stadiums with a few JBL 2226 but realistically you might only need a little DSP and crossover point adjustment. Was there a cross on the FUSION 15 when you listened to them?

I have to think they can reach down to a sub system if you set them properly.

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