Another Erskine-designed masterpiece (if I don't screw it up). - Page 10 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 2Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #271 of 444 Old 03-14-2012, 04:53 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
KBlaw2010's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Allen, Texas
Posts: 135
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Calibrating . . . . Calibrating . . . . . . . . . . .







To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
KBlaw2010 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #272 of 444 Old 03-14-2012, 05:01 PM
Advanced Member
 
scl23enn4m3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 750
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
That is a gorgeous room. I can't even decide which design element I like the best. Congrats man, it truly is stunning (and it's not even done!).
scl23enn4m3 is offline  
post #273 of 444 Old 03-14-2012, 05:35 PM
AVS Special Member
 
petew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Albuquerque, NM USA
Posts: 2,052
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 45
Somebody must be grinning ear to ear! All I can say is "wow" and Holy $#|+ Batman!!

Nice job - can't wait for the finished product.

High Desert Theater -
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Building Bass - 
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Surrounds -
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Storage -
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

petew is offline  
post #274 of 444 Old 03-14-2012, 05:54 PM
Member
 
JTR7's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 175
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by scl23enn4m3 View Post

That is a gorgeous room. I can't even decide which design element I like the best. Congrats man, it truly is stunning (and it's not even done!).

Mine's those speakers.

Wow. Lots of calibration equipment.

Keep em coming.
JTR7 is offline  
post #275 of 444 Old 03-14-2012, 06:07 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Jive Turkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: good old USA
Posts: 1,479
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Super job so far!

Are they going to re-tweak the audio calibrations after the screen is up and the rest of the wall coverings are in place?

See ya. Dave

"High Fidelity audio has been like a dog chasing his tail. High Fidelity in my marriage has been much more rewarding cause she knows where I sleep."
Jive Turkey is online now  
post #276 of 444 Old 03-14-2012, 06:07 PM
Member
 
filetandrelease's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 130
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by KBlaw2010 View Post

Calibrating . . . . Calibrating . . . . . . . . . . .

Holy Crap Man
filetandrelease is offline  
post #277 of 444 Old 03-14-2012, 08:04 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
KBlaw2010's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Allen, Texas
Posts: 135
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jive Turkey View Post

Super job so far!

Are they going to re-tweak the audio calibrations after the screen is up and the rest of the wall coverings are in place?

Don't know for sure. I am leaving that in Adam's capable hands. The screen goes up tomorrow!


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
KBlaw2010 is offline  
post #278 of 444 Old 03-14-2012, 09:02 PM
AVS Special Member
 
tbraden32's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Cicleville, OH
Posts: 1,177
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by KBlaw2010 View Post


Don't know for sure. I am leaving that in Adam's capable hands. The screen goes up tomorrow!

Wondering the same thing...

tbraden32 is offline  
post #279 of 444 Old 03-14-2012, 09:04 PM
 
cybrsage's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Harrisburg, PA
Posts: 8,074
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 148
What type of chairs are those theater chairs in the middle row?
cybrsage is offline  
post #280 of 444 Old 03-15-2012, 06:21 AM
AVS Special Member
 
cuzed2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Chicago Area
Posts: 4,414
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 66
I think I am seeing 4 different calibration mics, oriented at 2 or 3 different angles?
I assume the mic(s) pointed straight-up are being used for low freq. (for EQ)?

Impressive room for sure!!

Cuzed2
Check out a video of my
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Officially Hanesamatized on 8/1/09

cuzed2 is offline  
post #281 of 444 Old 03-15-2012, 06:50 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
Dennis Erskine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Near an airport
Posts: 9,141
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 46
Assume nothing (bad plan).
There are four mics, they can be individually selected or sequenced for spatial averaging. The orientation of any given mic, at any given time, is providing a bias. Straight up, omni-directional. Aim it at a speaker, bias is toward the speaker. Mic positions/orientations will change as required to calibrate and get a picture of the entire seating area. Finishing the fabric install will have no impact on the calibration. Performance post screen install will be "tweaked" if necessary although what the screen is doing is very predictable. I'm sure Adam will comment when he is finished and off the clock.

Dennis Erskine CFI, CFII, MEI
Architectural Acoustics
Subject Matter Expert
Certified Home Theater Designer
CEDIA Board of Directors

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Dennis Erskine is offline  
post #282 of 444 Old 03-15-2012, 07:00 AM
AVS Special Member
 
cuzed2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Chicago Area
Posts: 4,414
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 66
Ah yes - that universal "Assume Warning"

Cuzed2
Check out a video of my
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Officially Hanesamatized on 8/1/09

cuzed2 is offline  
post #283 of 444 Old 03-15-2012, 07:54 AM
Senior Member
 
JonasHansen's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Denmark
Posts: 427
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Erskine View Post

Assume nothing (bad plan).
There are four mics, they can be individually selected or sequenced for spatial averaging. The orientation of any given mic, at any given time, is providing a bias. Straight up, omni-directional. Aim it at a speaker, bias is toward the speaker. Mic positions/orientations will change as required to calibrate and get a picture of the entire seating area. Finishing the fabric install will have no impact on the calibration. Performance post screen install will be "tweaked" if necessary although what the screen is doing is very predictable. I'm sure Adam will comment when he is finished and off the clock.

Very nice. What calibration software/hardware is being used?

JBL Synthesis | Crown | BSS Soundweb
JonasHansen is offline  
post #284 of 444 Old 03-15-2012, 08:21 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
KBlaw2010's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Allen, Texas
Posts: 135
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

What type of chairs are those theater chairs in the middle row?

http://www.rtheaters.com/FusionColle...cape-1019.html

Highly recommended by many on the forum. I have not had a chance to give them a thorough trial, but that is coming very soon . . .


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
KBlaw2010 is offline  
post #285 of 444 Old 03-16-2012, 06:25 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
appelz's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 49
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Hey all,

Dennis covered the calibration questions pretty well (of course). Those particular pics are just snapshots of time. The microphone matched/calibrated specifically to the meter gets moved around depending on the type of measurement being performed. Part of the calibration process includes verification that every component in the chain is performing properly. This includes impedance sweeps, near field plots, polarity of each individual driver, individual driver plots, etc. No sense in starting a calibration project if a speaker is mis-wired internally, or the x-overs are sketchy in one speaker. I can also verify that the AVR or pre-pro is working correctly, and more importantly, HOW it is working. Many manufacturers play games with x-over slopes for bass management, depending on the mode selected.

I can already tell this is going to be too long. Perhaps one day I will start a thread detailing the process that I use for calibration, as I am certain it is largely misunderstood. 70+lbs of test equipment matched with dual QSC 322's, Quest Acoustical Lens System, and Dennis' excellent room and system design is pretty much a win-win scenario for someone like me! Two 12 hour days go by quick..

Back to specific questions asked then. Once I have set the mic locations, the positions are fixed. I do change the angle of mics, depending on what info I need. All four mics in this rig are identical. I also have an 8 mic rig used in other circumstances. Spatial averaging is a critical part of the tool set.

That particular fabric will have no outcome on the measurements, although it can have some effect on how the different acoustical panels "work". The perfed screen definitely has an effect, as the room now has a GIANT reflective surface at one end. But as Dennis stated, it is a known, predictable, and did exactly what I hoped with the Procella's compression drivers. Easily measured, and compensated for. Since there is no room behind the screen, I needed the screen removed so I could play with the gain settings on the mains and subs, and toe-in of course.

The whole process is very iterative. If I change some filters on the left channel, chances are I have also now changed the output level, so level matching is re-checked, and then most likely need to re-check sub integration and phase, etc etc. And hours of just listening. That is usually when someone walks in, and wonders if all I really do is listen to music and watch movies in other people's houses...

Terrasond3/Sencore SP495 and SPLink for real time, Digital Audio Generator to create the signals needed, sent to the channel(s) I need, mic mux, mics of course, BSS Blu32 running ARCOS/HATS, also an HDMI signal generator (video and audio). The SP495 also doubles as a very high quality sound card, for when I need ARTA, SysTune, REW, etc.

I suppose someone also wants to know how the room turned out?

Amazing. I would have loved to spend an entire 3rd day JUST listening to music. Focus, Response, Envelopment, Clarity, Dynamics...this room scored high in every category. The Procellas simply perform. Having known dispersion, and tremendous off-axis frequency response is so valuable, especially when combined with the right acoustical treatments to take advantage of that tasty indirect sound that contributes so much to a good listening environment. The twin subs...Wow. Having a system able to truly extend down to 20Hz is a luxury very few get to experience. The room is quiet, and all the subtle nuances and ambiance cues get you completely engaged in the experience. Listening to an intimate jazz recording, followed by a massive organ piece with your eyes closed could be a confusing spatial experience!

Top that off with an excellent projector lighting up a ~13ft wide 2.35 screen and this is a room to be extremely proud of.

Adam Pelz ,Acoustic Mafia - Hear No Evil
Master ARCOS Calibrator, Cedia Designer, HAA Instructor LIII, THX HT1+ HT2+ Video
appelz is offline  
post #286 of 444 Old 03-16-2012, 10:45 PM
AVS Special Member
 
jamin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: moot point
Posts: 1,051
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Wonderfully described.
I want one!

plug in to play
Acoustic Mafia - Hear No Evil
jamin is online now  
post #287 of 444 Old 03-17-2012, 06:16 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
Dennis Erskine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Near an airport
Posts: 9,141
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 46
Only one?

Dennis Erskine CFI, CFII, MEI
Architectural Acoustics
Subject Matter Expert
Certified Home Theater Designer
CEDIA Board of Directors

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Dennis Erskine is offline  
post #288 of 444 Old 03-17-2012, 09:21 AM
Senior Member
 
Irv Kelman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Kewanee, IL USA
Posts: 228
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
What sound processor are you using in this theater?

Irv Kelman
We are THX Certified.
Irv Kelman is offline  
post #289 of 444 Old 03-18-2012, 08:13 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
appelz's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 49
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
A Denon 4311 is being used as the pre-pro. The Procellas up front are powered speakers, and the 4 side channels and 2 rears are being powered by an AudioControl Savoy. Essentially, the Denon handles source switching, basic bass management, volume control, and decoding the different surround sound formats. All of the heavy lifting is accomplished by 2 QSC 322ua. Video output is processed by a Lumagen Mini. A Crestron system stitches it all together!

Adam Pelz ,Acoustic Mafia - Hear No Evil
Master ARCOS Calibrator, Cedia Designer, HAA Instructor LIII, THX HT1+ HT2+ Video
appelz is offline  
post #290 of 444 Old 03-19-2012, 08:14 AM
Senior Member
 
Irv Kelman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Kewanee, IL USA
Posts: 228
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Thanks Adam.

Irv Kelman
We are THX Certified.
Irv Kelman is offline  
post #291 of 444 Old 03-21-2012, 05:10 AM
Senior Member
 
JonasHansen's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Denmark
Posts: 427
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by appelz View Post

A Denon 4311 is being used as the pre-pro. The Procellas up front are powered speakers, and the 4 side channels and 2 rears are being powered by an AudioControl Savoy. Essentially, the Denon handles source switching, basic bass management, volume control, and decoding the different surround sound formats. All of the heavy lifting is accomplished by 2 QSC 322ua. Video output is processed by a Lumagen Mini. A Crestron system stitches it all together!

Very cool DSP's!

Is there a reason the Denon 4311 was chosen? When you compare it with the speakers, DSP etc, it seems that the Denon is in a completely different price range.

JBL Synthesis | Crown | BSS Soundweb
JonasHansen is offline  
post #292 of 444 Old 03-21-2012, 05:39 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
appelz's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 49
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I do not know why that particular component was chosen.

At this time, choosing a pre-pro is a tricky decision, fraught with peril, as Jamin would say. If you go with something high end, you will almost always miss out on the latest codecs, front wides or heights, dolby volume, solid HDMI switching, built-in XM or ipod support, internet streaming, IP control, etc etc. Smaller boutique companies, or even larger ones, simply cannot keep up with the R&D that denon and others put into new products.

I also feel quite strongly about the importance of the room, compared to equipment choices. I have demonstrated countless times that mid-fi gear in an engineered room will outperform esoteric ultra high end systems in a typical installation. Caveats apply of course; a low end HTIB in a 20x30 room will obviously not be capable of generating the needed SPL, and of course, I would always prefer an engineered room combined with excellent equipment.

You can always upgrade the gear in the future, with minimal effort. Upgrading the room...not so much.

Adam Pelz ,Acoustic Mafia - Hear No Evil
Master ARCOS Calibrator, Cedia Designer, HAA Instructor LIII, THX HT1+ HT2+ Video
appelz is offline  
post #293 of 444 Old 03-21-2012, 02:58 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
Dennis Erskine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Near an airport
Posts: 9,141
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 46
The Denon is acting as a switcher/decoder and it does that job very nicely (and, unlike some "boutique" stuff, things like EDID exhange, HDCP, works everytime, all the time). All the serious calibration work and amplification work has been off loaded to other gear (not to mention the room and room acoustics).

Dennis Erskine CFI, CFII, MEI
Architectural Acoustics
Subject Matter Expert
Certified Home Theater Designer
CEDIA Board of Directors

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Dennis Erskine is offline  
post #294 of 444 Old 03-22-2012, 07:00 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
KBlaw2010's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Allen, Texas
Posts: 135
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonasHansen View Post

Is there a reason the Denon 4311 was chosen? When you compare it with the speakers, DSP etc, it seems that the Denon is in a completely different price range.

That is another one of the great things about working with Dennis. I told him from the beginning that I wanted him to help me make value-based decisions about the room. Put money into the things that will make the most appreciable difference. Hence the investment in room construction, speakers, etc. He could have just recommended the most expensive equipment for my budget, but he didn't. There were several instances where I thought I "needed" something that I saw in a magazine, but he would educate me on why the money was better invested somewhere else--where I would notice more of a difference.

To each their own, but I am probably not enough of a videophile or audiophile to notice some of the differences in the higher end gear anyway. And we are extremely happy with the way things look and sound so far! Phenomenal.

I will post some updated photos of progress if I can pull myself away from watching movies this weekend.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
KBlaw2010 is offline  
post #295 of 444 Old 03-22-2012, 07:07 PM
Advanced Member
 
HFGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Toronto
Posts: 559
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 18
So he didn't recommend cable lifters ??!?!?!?!

HFGuy is offline  
post #296 of 444 Old 03-22-2012, 07:58 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
KBlaw2010's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Allen, Texas
Posts: 135
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by HFGuy View Post

So he didn't recommend cable lifters ??!?!?!?!

Screw better speakers. Those I definitely NEED.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
KBlaw2010 is offline  
post #297 of 444 Old 03-23-2012, 05:42 AM
FOH
AVS Special Member
 
FOH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Midwest
Posts: 4,749
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked: 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by KBlaw2010 View Post

That is another one of the great things about working with Dennis. I told him from the beginning that I wanted him to help me make value-based decisions about the room. Put money into the things that will make the most appreciable difference. Hence the investment in room construction, speakers, etc. He could have just recommended the most expensive equipment for my budget, but he didn't. There were several instances where I thought I "needed" something that I saw in a magazine, but he would educate me on why the money was better invested somewhere else--where I would notice more of a difference.

Outstanding!

The room, the speakers, and the acoustic optimization, rings a bell doesn't it? There are untold number of enthusiasts that misguidedly spend in all the wrong places.

Great thread, it's nice to see it's coming together.


Continued good luck

------------------------------------
Flat, Deep, Clean, Linear, and Loud
------------------------------------
Active 16.8kw, 7.3 system
(3)Seaton Cat12C up front, (4)QSC K8 sides/rears
(2)Seaton SubM-HP, (4)18" IB
FOH is offline  
post #298 of 444 Old 04-04-2012, 04:57 AM
Advanced Member
 
JVoth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Beaumont, TX
Posts: 592
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 43 Post(s)
Liked: 37
So how is the theater coming? Haven't heard anything in a while. I'm assuming it's because your watching movies instead of playing on the computer.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
JVoth is offline  
post #299 of 444 Old 04-04-2012, 05:07 AM
AVS Special Member
 
vanice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Southside Indy
Posts: 1,190
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked: 45
Not sure if you covered this before but would you mind sharing some details on your sofa? That looks like a comfy place to watch a movie. Did you get it from a local store or national chain? Room looks (and I'm sure sounds) fantastic!


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
vanice is offline  
post #300 of 444 Old 04-04-2012, 05:40 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
KBlaw2010's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Allen, Texas
Posts: 135
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by JVoth View Post

So how is the theater coming? Haven't heard anything in a while. I'm assuming it's because your watching movies instead of playing on the computer.

That's affirmative. The theater is intoxicating. Very difficult to break away from movies, etc. The more I watch--the more I want to watch.

But we have made some progress on the fabric. We have a few difficult spots that have been giving me some trouble. I will post a picture update soon.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
KBlaw2010 is offline  
Reply Dedicated Theater Design & Construction

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off