The "Bacon Race" Theater / Patio / Bar Project - Page 34 - AVS Forum
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Dedicated Theater Design & Construction > The "Bacon Race" Theater / Patio / Bar Project
Htdude3420's Avatar Htdude3420 01:15 AM 11-30-2011
Is there a reason you put panels covering all the walls instead of just partially? I was wondering because I read if you use to many it will do more harm than good but then I see a lot of people's HT with full covered panel walls.

Thanks

BIGmouthinDC's Avatar BIGmouthinDC 06:04 AM 11-30-2011
What happens behind the fabric stays behind the fabric. You can mix and match absorption, diffusion, or nothing at all. That was the case in this project. Covering the entire wall with fabric panels or floor to ceiling fabric is more for looks.

In this case portions of the wall have one inch, some have two inches mounted two inches off the wall and some even have scrim reflectors on the surface. There are sections with nothing but primer. Damelon used Bpape to design his acoustical plan.
damelon's Avatar damelon 06:16 AM 11-30-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post

What happens behind the fabric stays behind the fabric. You can mix and match absorption, diffusion, or nothing at all. That was the case in this project. Covering the entire wall with fabric panels or floor to ceiling fabric is more for looks.

In this case portions of the wall have one inch, some have two inches mounted two inches off the wall and some even have scrim reflectors on the surface. There are sections with nothing but primer. Damelon used Bpape to design his acoustical plan.

Wow beat me to it just a minute before I logged in Biggie. Like BIG mentioned, the full wall fabric is done for looks. The treatments are behind them and they vary depending on where on the wall they are.

Your statement in general is also incorrect in almost all cases. People usually use far less treatments than they need to. Throw a few panels on the walls and maybe corner bass traps and call it a day, regardless of exactly where they need to treat the walls.

The two major things every home theater needs to deal with (Yes I know there are more than two) when it comes to treating the walls are reflection points and bass absorption.

If you actually calculated where all of the panels needed to be to treat your reflection points you would have panels in all sorts of odd places that as far as looks go, would seem very weird looking. If you hide them behind a wall of fabric, you can make the wall look any way you want it to, rather than a jumble of panels.

As far as bass absorption, this can be done on any surface. It's hard to determine exactly how much one needs but bass will seem very boomy without it. People like bass punch. You can get the best subs in the world but if your absorption isn't there it will be muddy. We can treat the walls in any place, adding absorption where we can anywhere where the fabric allows us to hide the material.

Other than those things there are of course things like dead spots, high frequencies, difusing, etc... all of which are additional treatments you may or may not employ.

There are 1", 2", 4" treatments in the room, some with air gap treatments, bass trap treatments, high frequency treatments, cotton and fiberglass material treatments. If you just saw the final pictures of the theater, you would have no idea what treatmets were where, what walls are how deep, what thickness treatments were hidden. That is the beauty of full fabric walls.

The whole room acoustical plan was calculated by Bryan Pape, who does it for a living.
Htdude3420's Avatar Htdude3420 10:48 AM 11-30-2011
Awesome guys, thanks for answering my question. I'm new to all this so that really helped me out for when I build my own. Do you know if that's an expensive process to have someone come out and make an acoustical plan for your room?

Room looks awesome by the way
damelon's Avatar damelon 01:04 PM 11-30-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Htdude3420 View Post

Awesome guys, thanks for answering my question. I'm new to all this so that really helped me out for when I build my own. Do you know if that's an expensive process to have someone come out and make an acoustical plan for your room?

Room looks awesome by the way

It really depends on your degree of commitment. There are two schools of thought when it comes to room treatments.

There is the front-end approach, which takes the stance that the majority of problems the average listener can even hear can be corrected without ever stepping foot in your room. Usually they take the floorplan, which is your room dimensions, your speaker setup, your listening position, and your screen size (If you are using an AT screen) and then calculating where the reflection points should be based on where you place your speakers. You can even take it a step further, which is to hire someone like Dennis Erskine, that will actually design a lot of these corrections into your floor plan itself (Actually building things like difusers into your room plan) Costs for these approaches vary but range from about $500 - $5,000. As you can imagine, drawing up a detailed floorplan costs a lot more than just making calculations off of a floorplan you provide.

The other point of view is to do no calculations on paper, and measure your room with audio equipment. Perform treatments, re-measure, re-treat, etc. Purists will tell you this is a much better approach, but it requires a LOT more time and effort, not to mention, someone who will actually be able to do it at your house. The cost of this really depends on who you use and how serious they are.

To be honest, I am a firm believer in the first approach. If I build a room that is 15 x 20 x 8 and you build a room that is 15 x 21 x 8, you should be able to take my literal treatment plan and apply it to your room with only the most minor adjustments of where the reflection points might begin and end on the side walls. You can argue this until you are blue in the face with people who follow the "post build measurement" approach, but they will ignore every word you say because they do things by the theory and do not believe in practical application. I think that someone who has your room blueprints and has built many theaters and knows what they are doing will be able to give you a relatively simple to follow plan that will sound excellent without ever stepping foot in your house.

If you know the general desgin you want, it's my opinion that the majority of people who build theaters on this forum do not need to hire a professional to calculate their treatments. If you read enough build threads, you will notice construction and treatment techniques used over and over again that have proven to make the owners happy. I have watched many movies and have loved how it sounds. Is it perfect? Probably not. Do I notice, not at all. I'd much rather spend the money to get my projector calibrated than hire someone to come and measure the acoustics of my room. There have been so many build threads with so much detail to their treatments and soundproofing now in this forum that anyone should be able to copy what others have done and do it themselves with some good search time and a few questions asked. The people here are great when it comes to providing free input.
tlogan6797's Avatar tlogan6797 01:25 PM 11-30-2011
Great post!

MY $0.02......

In-room treatments (equipment, too) can be easily upgraded. Going back and adding things like clips is not really doable without MAJOR pain. Spend your money on the things that you can't go back do easily. Live with the treatments (and equipment) you have and then evaluate for upgrade.
BIGmouthinDC's Avatar BIGmouthinDC 03:00 PM 11-30-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Htdude3420 View Post

Do you know if that's an expensive process to have someone come out and make an acoustical plan for your room?

There is a description of Damelon's plan buried in this thread if you comb through all the posts and pictures. What he paid for an off-site professional plan is shown in his cost breakdown, along with what he paid for acoustical treatments and soundproofing materials.
cdika17's Avatar cdika17 07:08 PM 11-30-2011
Unacceptable's Avatar Unacceptable 08:34 PM 11-30-2011
Damelon,

Was showing the wife your theater tonight as we were looking at seating and she prefers your "sofa" setup to the "individual armrests" approach. Originally, I was in the "individual" camp and planned my layout accordingly but I can save some serious and much needed width with a setup like yours and, honestly, I'm starting to warm to the idea as I think it looks great in your case. Other similar setups I've seen? Not so much. Not sure why your's works for me but it does so I'm very open to the idea.

In your experience/opinion, what are the ups and downs of this style of seating apart from the obvious width-saving bonus? This is my first theater so I don't have any seat time in either setup. How do you recline the middle seat without an armrest? Any comfort issues with it? Where does the middle person put a drink? Stuff like that...
hanesian's Avatar hanesian 09:47 PM 11-30-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post

Damelon is a newlywed. Do you really need to ask about the pro's? From my experience when these wear out the replacements will have individual armrests.

When what wears out?
RTROSE's Avatar RTROSE 02:42 AM 12-01-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by hanesian View Post

When what wears out?


My first thought was that if damelon was a newlywed, why would he even have an interest in a theater. When I was a newlywed a theater was not what I was thinking about.

Regards,

RTROSE
damelon's Avatar damelon 06:39 AM 12-01-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unacceptable View Post

In your experience/opinion, what are the ups and downs of this style of seating apart from the obvious width-saving bonus? This is my first theater so I don't have any seat time in either setup. How do you recline the middle seat without an armrest? Any comfort issues with it? Where does the middle person put a drink? Stuff like that...

For the most part, the ONLY real cons are the lack of tables/cupholders for the people sitting in the middle. Most people you have in your own theater you wouldn't mind sitting next to, and if you have enough seats you can just sit somewhere else if that isn't the case anyway. I personally prefer individual seats too but I like my own personal space. The wife is the exception of course.

How long does the term "Newlywed" last? It's already been over a year. And when you've dated someone for years that effect doesn't really exist. But home improvements in general was a big priority for both of us in our own houses even before we were married.
J_P_A's Avatar J_P_A 07:38 AM 12-01-2011
Hmmmm. I was told the honeymoon is over when you are in the bathroom brushing your teeth and your significant other comes in and visits the toilet. I guess everyone has different priorities
tlogan6797's Avatar tlogan6797 07:46 AM 12-01-2011
Hmmmm....I thought it was when your wife lets one rip and says something like "squeaky floor," or "must be frogs," or "jet propulsion."
J_P_A's Avatar J_P_A 08:09 AM 12-01-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by tlogan6797 View Post

Hmmmm....I thought it was when your wife lets one rip and says something like "squeaky floor," or "must be frogs," or "jet propulsion."

I think one of the worst surprises about the honeymoon ending was discovering that women farts smell WAY worse than man farts. I think they hold them too long and they ferment or something.
damelon's Avatar damelon 10:09 AM 12-01-2011
I think we are re-defining "Off Topic".
Dingaling2004's Avatar Dingaling2004 11:21 PM 12-01-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by damelon View Post

I think we are re-defining "Off Topic".

I think we are redefining 'off color'.
RTROSE's Avatar RTROSE 05:47 AM 12-02-2011
I wondered how long it would take before even this classic/classy thread strayed off course/topic/color......whatever. Took longer than I thought it would, but alas it has happened.

It is not a build thread UNTIL it strays off topic.

Regards,

RTROSE
BIGmouthinDC's Avatar BIGmouthinDC 06:03 AM 12-02-2011
If Damelon would paint the door and post some pictures we could easily get back on course. That, and some superimposed screen shots.
Dingaling2004's Avatar Dingaling2004 06:09 AM 12-02-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post

If Damelon would paint the door and post some pictures we could easily get back on course. That, and some superimposed screen shots.

He's a lazy bugger that Damelon. Rumor has it you did all the work anyway Big!
BIGmouthinDC's Avatar BIGmouthinDC 06:23 AM 12-02-2011
I just know that Damelon would rather got to the dentist than get out the brushes again, I think he has Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome from painting the trim and columns 5 times.
damelon's Avatar damelon 08:01 AM 12-02-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post

I just know that Damelon would rather got to the dentist than get out the brushes again, I think he has Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome from painting the trim and columns 5 times.

Sooo true. After re-painting all that crap that many times I never want to see paint again! Then again every weekend holds a chance that I might get some work done.

Nice try Dingaling, that's not going to get me any more motivated to paint!

----

HTPC Status : converting my whole blu ray ISO library to MKV is taking a LONG time! 64 moved over so far, 288 to go. Then there are some discs I have to re-rip on top of that. Ugh. At least I can remote into my home network and do conversions from the office.
cdika17's Avatar cdika17 08:10 AM 12-02-2011
I feel your pain with the converting. I'm almost finish ripping my Bly ray collection to mkv. 325 to be exact. And then converting half of those to mp4 so the wife and kids can watch on iPads. I have over 16TB of storage, still have plenty on room, Wish I could teach the wife how to rip, as easy as it is, still rocket science to her, would make the process a lot faster.
tbraden32's Avatar tbraden32 09:11 AM 12-02-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdika17 View Post

I feel your pain with the converting. I'm almost finish ripping my Bly ray collection to mkv. 325 to be exact. And then converting half of those to mp4 so the wife and kids can watch on iPads. I have over 16TB of storage, still have plenty on room, Wish I could teach the wife how to rip, as easy as it is, still rocket science to her, would make the process a lot faster.

What are you using to rip MKV to mp4?
cdika17's Avatar cdika17 09:53 AM 12-02-2011
It's to much screwing around to convert mkv to mp4, im just re-ripping the blurays to mp4. Only bad thing about mkv is that it's a pita to convert then to anything else.
tbraden32's Avatar tbraden32 01:31 PM 12-02-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdika17 View Post

It's to much screwing around to convert mkv to mp4, im just re-ripping the blurays to mp4. Only bad thing about mkv is that it's a pita to convert then to anything else.

What are you using to rip the BDs to MP4's? I only use makeMKV now.
Dingaling2004's Avatar Dingaling2004 03:03 AM 12-03-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by tbraden32 View Post

What are you using to rip the BDs to MP4's? I only use makeMKV now.

I am using Pavtube Blu-Ray ripper to change BD's to MP-4 or any other number of file types. Good program but slow. I am backing up my copy of Captain America. It knocks it down to about 8Gb but takes about 8 hours per movie. Is this about the norm?

I am using an Imac 24 inch

Greg
damelon's Avatar damelon 07:33 AM 12-03-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dingaling2004 View Post

I am using Pavtube Blu-Ray ripper to change BD's to MP-4 or any other number of file types. Good program but slow. I am backing up my copy of Captain America. It knocks it down to about 8Gb but takes about 8 hours per movie. Is this about the norm?

I am using an Imac 24 inch

Greg

Dear god, 8 hours per movie. I bet the time you spend watching that movie (In your entire life) takes less than that. At least my ISO to MKV conversions are more like 15-20 min ea. Playback is also flawless. So an ipad can't play an MKV file or is it that you want to put the movie on the ipad? Seems like too much work to me.
carboranadum's Avatar carboranadum 07:39 AM 12-03-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by damelon View Post

Dear god, 8 hours per movie. I bet the time you spend watching that movie (In your entire life) takes less than that. At least my ISO to MKV conversions are more like 15-20 min ea. Playback is also flawless. So an ipad can't play an MKV file or is it that you want to put the movie on the ipad? Seems like too much work to me.

That does seem like a long time, BUT, the savings in size is enormous. I ripped Captain America from BR and kept only the English subtitles and none of the extras. It is 33.2GB. If the mp4 is only 8, that's a quarter of the size. Is there any loss of resolution?
damelon's Avatar damelon 07:43 AM 12-03-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by carboranadum View Post

That does seem like a long time, BUT, the savings in size is enormous. I ripped Captain America from BR and kept only the English subtitles and none of the extras. It is 33.2GB. If the mp4 is only 8, that's a quarter of the size. Is there any loss of resolution?

If the file size is going to 8GB, then the video does get compressed, which means the quality is degraded. Then again if you are playing the movie on an IPAD, then the size is much more important than perfect quality and to be honest, who is going to bitch about any quality loss on a tablet screen? The smaller the screen, the less the quality matters. (Think of a streaming video in a little window on your screen vs how it looks if you blow it up to full screen. One looks fine, the other looks very blocky and pixilated) That all being said... I'd never spend 8 hours of time to convert something just so I could put it on my tablet.
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