The "Bacon Race" Theater / Patio / Bar Project - Page 37 - AVS Forum
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post #1081 of 2436 Old 01-17-2012, 09:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LexMan View Post

Great build damelon! I have looked through your thread more than once as you have a lot of great info.

I did have one question though, I really like your soffit but I did not see how you did the rope lighting or where you put it on the soffit. Any pictures or diagrams that might clairfy? Sorry if it is in your thread but I did not see it looking through.

It's at post 484

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...8#post21060698
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post #1082 of 2436 Old 01-17-2012, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damelon View Post

So if the seats in the front row are not reclined AND the seats in the back row are reclined, then the tops of the seats in the front row are in the way a little. It's not that the back riser was not tall enough, it was more that the screen might have been mounted a little higher. It's not a big deal really as I much prefer the view from the front row. Total submersion. I think people have had the seats reclined in every single movie we have watched, at least part way.

Also, the projector is not hung with the top of the screen material. At first it was a problem. The first projector pipe I had I believe was 6" and although the scope screen got filled completely, when the projector zoomed out and tried to position the 16:9 image, it wouldn't shift down far enough. So we went to the store. We went to a 10" drop pipe (to go with the ceiling mount and the mount plate) and then it fit the screen in both modes. We asked for a custom length at home depot, but cutting a 10" pipe was tricky as the length wasn't long enough to get locked into the pipe cutter on both ends. They got it done though. We could have just purchased a stock 12" pipe, but now the height of the projector was starting to become a problem for the rear row. As of right now it is just about 6 feet or so from the top of the riser to the bottom (which is the top flipped) of the projector, so 2 more inches would cause a lot of bumping. People still need to be a litlle careful when getting up and sitting down in the rear seats.

The projector would have needed to be moved either closer (above the front row) or further (against the light tray) to have the clearance problems avoided, but then forward-wize it wouldnt be far enough to fill the screen, and then back wise it would lose some brightness and look weird.

I like how everything is right now, but yes, if I was building it all again from scratch these are the things I'd do differently:

1) Mount the screen a couple of inches higher.
2) Test my HDMI cables before putting them through the conduit!!!
3) Make sure the height of the door threshold was greater than the thickness of my carpet!
4) Add a dead-vent and another vent register (2 instead of 1) or a mini-split
5) Do a better calculation on my fabric and cotton (My black fabric estimate was perfect but I had quite a bit left over red fabric and several boxes of cotton left over)
6) Get the paint right the first time (Make sure to do the fabric matching at the store instead of eyeball matching)
7) Give a little more extra space for columns so that the middle parts aren't so tightly wedged in. (Cut off 1/2" at least from each of them and measure three times)
8) I would have used Roman for my chairs and NOT under any circumstances, theaterseatstore. By the way, I FINALLY got my replacement chair for the wrong order yesterday... January 16th, after the original guy who was dragging his feet got fired and a new guy finally sorted it out. You do the math of how many months that was.

Things I'm VERY happy I did
1) Use BIGmouthinDC for help
2) chose the sony projector
3) got my acoustic treatments from Bryan Pape
4) Contacted Ruben for my SMX screen
5) Read build threads I liked at least 3 times from beginning to end for ideas, measurements, and other builder's experiences
6) Room de-coupling
7) Moved all of my blu ray ISO files to MKV and used MediaBrowser. Everyone loves my movie setup now and is amazed how it works.
8) Used unRaid for my media NAS. Great stable no-maintenance system!
9) lived close a a home depot/lowes
10) Used places like monoprice for most of my cables. Great quality and so cheap. Do research!

Though to be honest, this build went VERY well. BIG and I were able to make decisions together very quickly, we caught each other's mistakes almost 99% of the time, and had very few "Re-Do" moments. The theater was finished in record time and it is exactly what I hoped it would look/sound like. Really the only thing I mulled over at the end having a slight regret on was not putting more effort into calculating BTU/cooling etc. I like my rooms (and the air I breathe) cold, that's what blankets are for, so for me I think I could have done that better. Everything else, well... I couldn't be happier!

That was an awesome post D,

Thanks a lot!

It's funny u mention the door threshold. We were talking about that today. So that is taken care of. I also had a great conversation with my plumber re: the concealed mini split so I THINK we are good there. My biggest prob is going to be isolating the ducts cause I'm not doing a soffit. I'm def using Bryan for the acoustic plan. That is a no brainer I feel.

Getting back to the projector height. I am prob wrong here but I thought with cinescope you always had to have the lens inline with the top of the screen? I didn't think lens shift could be used cause it would still cause problems wit hthe projected image. But again that never made sense to me cause that means most of use would have pretty low projectors due to cinescope being not very tall in height?

I have to get my build thread up but I just don't have a solid idea of where I'm going with it. I mean I know but I'm always finding something wrong and didn't want to come to the table yet. Hopefully soon.

Today some prep work got done. All electric and low volt that needed to be moved was taken care of. I have 2 large transformers for our curios on the 1st floor and they had to be moved from the area cause it was in the room to be DW. Electric is done now plumbing for the baseboard heater lines that need to be tucked up in joists and a gas shutoff valve that needs to be moved. I did some future proofing for HAI thermostats for the first floor too.

Thanks for the detailed post and sorry for more questions.

jimi
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post #1083 of 2436 Old 01-17-2012, 11:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimim View Post

Getting back to the projector height. I am prob wrong here but I thought with cinescope you always had to have the lens inline with the top of the screen? I didn't think lens shift could be used cause it would still cause problems wit hthe projected image. But again that never made sense to me cause that means most of use would have pretty low projectors due to cinescope being not very tall in height?

When it comes to lens memory, a lot of people have read the requirements of the panasonic projectors. Because the panny's use a manual lens shift, and then a very small picture-shift for lens memory, the projector is required to be within the space of the screen itself, because it can only adjust the image a little bit when it zooms.

Projectors like the sony have complete electronic lens shift, so the format itself makes no difference. The lens memory is nothing more than shifting the zoom, vertical, and horizontal. All of the size constraints are basically a 16:9 image, except in a scope image the black bars are off of the frame of the screen. It just changes all 3 shifting settings from the saved settings you determine yourself.

Then there is the scenario where you use an anamorphic lens, which means the projector doesn't shift at all once setup. (I may be wrong here, BIG could answer this). But you aren't dealing with any of the zooming stuff the ones without lenses employ to get our scope formatting right.

--------------

As far as Bryan goes. He can get really busy sometimes, so he might not get to email very quickly, but he knows who to call and gets great prices on his products like the cotton batting and 703, etc. It's a real hassle to find the cotton batting otherwise. If you use him, take the time to call him on the phone if timing is urgent as he almost always answers.
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post #1084 of 2436 Old 01-17-2012, 11:37 AM
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If you use an add on lens for a CIH scope setup you first aim and position the projector for a perfect 16:9 image. Then for letter-boxed content you electronically stretch the image to use the full height of the projectors chip. You can do this internally with some projectors, some bluray players and other video processing devices. I use my Oppo player.

Once you have the image filling the full height you move the extra lens into position, it stretches the image to fill the full width (2.35:1) and restores the proper proportions of the image. In theory you never need to zoom, focus, or shift the image. I find myself tweaking the focus.
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post #1085 of 2436 Old 01-17-2012, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damelon View Post

When it comes to lens memory, a lot of people have read the requirements of the panasonic projectors. Because the panny's use a manual lens shift, and then a very small picture-shift for lens memory, the projector is required to be within the space of the screen itself, because it can only adjust the image a little bit when it zooms.

Projectors like the sony have complete electronic lens shift, so the format itself makes no difference. The lens memory is nothing more than shifting the zoom, vertical, and horizontal. All of the size constraints are basically a 16:9 image, except in a scope image the black bars are off of the frame of the screen. It just changes all 3 shifting settings from the saved settings you determine yourself.

Then there is the scenario where you use an anamorphic lens, which means the projector doesn't shift at all once setup. (I may be wrong here, BIG could answer this). But you aren't dealing with any of the zooming stuff the ones without lenses employ to get our scope formatting right.

--------------

As far as Bryan goes. He can get really busy sometimes, so he might not get to email very quickly, but he knows who to call and gets great prices on his products like the cotton batting and 703, etc. It's a real hassle to find the cotton batting otherwise. If you use him, take the time to call him on the phone if timing is urgent as he almost always answers.

Thanks for that D.
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post #1086 of 2436 Old 01-17-2012, 03:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post

If you use an add on lens for a CIH scope setup you first aim and position the projector for a perfect 16:9 image. Then for letter-boxed content you electronically stretch the image to use the full height of the projectors chip. You can do this internally with some projectors, some bluray players and other video processing devices. I use my Oppo player.

Once you have the image filling the full height you move the extra lens into position, it stretches the image to fill the full width (2.35:1) and restores the proper proportions of the image. In theory you never need to zoom, focus, or shift the image. I find myself tweaking the focus.

thanks for that Big. So then with a lens setup vs a zoomu can use the lens shift if available so then being at the top of the screen isn't always needed then? so from what i'm reading has to do with projectors that don't have a amount of vertical shift either manual or motorized.

jim

thanks,
jimi
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post #1087 of 2436 Old 01-17-2012, 05:35 PM
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If you can hit a perfect 16:9 with the projector above the screen edge than you are good to go with an add on lens, the other issue with the use of a lens is that you want a decent throw ratio (measured in the 16:9 mode) to minimize pincushion distortion. From memory I think that is at least 1.8 so for a 8 ft wide 16:9 image you want the lens at least 14.4 ft from the screen.
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post #1088 of 2436 Old 01-17-2012, 07:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damelon View Post

Also, the projector is not hung with the top of the screen material. At first it was a problem. The first projector pipe I had I believe was 6" and although the scope screen got filled completely, when the projector zoomed out and tried to position the 16:9 image, it wouldn't shift down far enough. So we went to the store. We went to a 10" drop pipe (to go with the ceiling mount and the mount plate) and then it fit the screen in both modes. We asked for a custom length at home depot, but cutting a 10" pipe was tricky as the length wasn't long enough to get locked into the pipe cutter on both ends. They got it done though. We could have just purchased a stock 12" pipe, but now the height of the projector was starting to become a problem for the rear row. As of right now it is just about 6 feet or so from the top of the riser to the bottom (which is the top flipped) of the projector, so 2 more inches would cause a lot of bumping. People still need to be a litlle careful when getting up and sitting down in the rear seats.

The projector would have needed to be moved either closer (above the front row) or further (against the light tray) to have the clearance problems avoided, but then forward-wize it wouldnt be far enough to fill the screen, and then back wise it would lose some brightness and look weird.

I like how everything is right now, but yes, if I was building it all again from scratch these are the things I'd do differently:

1) Mount the screen a couple of inches higher.
2) Test my HDMI cables before putting them through the conduit!!!
3) Make sure the height of the door threshold was greater than the thickness of my carpet!
4) Add a dead-vent and another vent register (2 instead of 1) or a mini-split
5) Do a better calculation on my fabric and cotton (My black fabric estimate was perfect but I had quite a bit left over red fabric and several boxes of cotton left over)
6) Get the paint right the first time (Make sure to do the fabric matching at the store instead of eyeball matching)
7) Give a little more extra space for columns so that the middle parts aren't so tightly wedged in. (Cut off 1/2" at least from each of them and measure three times)
8) I would have used Roman for my chairs and NOT under any circumstances, theaterseatstore. By the way, I FINALLY got my replacement chair for the wrong order yesterday... January 16th, after the original guy who was dragging his feet got fired and a new guy finally sorted it out. You do the math of how many months that was.

Things I'm VERY happy I did
1) Use BIGmouthinDC for help
2) chose the sony projector
3) got my acoustic treatments from Bryan Pape
4) Contacted Ruben for my SMX screen
5) Read build threads I liked at least 3 times from beginning to end for ideas, measurements, and other builder's experiences
6) Room de-coupling
7) Moved all of my blu ray ISO files to MKV and used MediaBrowser. Everyone loves my movie setup now and is amazed how it works.
8) Used unRaid for my media NAS. Great stable no-maintenance system!
9) lived close a a home depot/lowes
10) Used places like monoprice for most of my cables. Great quality and so cheap. Do research!

Maybe you can do a write up for the "What I'd Do Differently Next Time" thread (a sticky in this forum)? There's some good lessons here.

Follow my build here: Harvest Ridge Theater
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post #1089 of 2436 Old 01-22-2012, 01:46 PM
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For seating, who is Roman and where does he work, would like to use the reputable seller i hear so much about.

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post #1090 of 2436 Old 01-22-2012, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
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For seating, who is Roman and where does he work, would like to use the reputable seller i hear so much about.

Ultimate Home Entertainment

Definitely contact Roman (rsh on the forums). I have been looking at his new Fusion collection of seats. Based on the comments in the home theater accessory forum, people who have purchased them are very happy.

Based on his quick response to emails, I think he works 24x7

Nick
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post #1091 of 2436 Old 01-23-2012, 10:40 PM
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Any reason to why you didn't go with a hush box or vent box for your projector?

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post #1092 of 2436 Old 01-24-2012, 06:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by cdika17 View Post

Any reason to why you didn't go with a hush box or vent box for your projector?

I'd pose the exact opposite question, which I did to my self. Any reason TO go with a hush box or vent box? Well for one, the sony is so quiet you don't even notice it when the movie is on. If you just turned it on and didn't watch anything you could hear it but it's still so very very quiet. Second, the projector is about a foot down from the ceiling and in the recessed part of the tray. It would look really bad if it was a huge box sticking down from the ceiling. Now, if I used a lens, I may have decided to build it into the rear soffit there, but the throw would be an issue for lumens and screen formatting.

Speaking of screen formatting, I REALLY hate these multi-aspect ratio movies they are putting out now. I doubt I'll ever watch tron legacy or transformers 2 but the dark knight I likely will... and it pisses me off. Film the whole movie one way or another! I think I may put it through handbrake or something to crop the imax scenes so the whole movie is 2.4:1
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post #1093 of 2436 Old 01-24-2012, 06:42 AM
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Quote:
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Speaking of screen formatting, I REALLY hate these multi-aspect ratio movies they are putting out now. I doubt I'll ever watch tron legacy or transformers 2 but the dark knight I likely will... and it pisses me off. Film the whole movie one way or another! I think I may put it through handbrake or something to crop the imax scenes so the whole movie is 2.4:1

Man, I couldn't agree with this anymore!
It's absolutely stupid in my opinion and I will not watch those movies again
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post #1094 of 2436 Old 01-24-2012, 06:46 AM
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^^ Agreed ^^ My Panny kept switching between aspect ratios. I finally had to turn off that feature for the remainder of the movie!

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post #1095 of 2436 Old 01-24-2012, 06:49 AM
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Definately a gimmick that needs to die a quick death.
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post #1096 of 2436 Old 01-31-2012, 04:03 PM
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Damelon...question regarding your unraid setup.

You have been living with this for a few months now...right? How do you like it? How is administering it? ..setting up shares? Have you had any issues? I'm still working to decide how to change mine over to something different and I'm really considering the unraid setup now.

Thank you.

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post #1097 of 2436 Old 01-31-2012, 04:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carboranadum View Post

Damelon...question regarding your unraid setup.

You have been living with this for a few months now...right? How do you like it? How is administering it? ..setting up shares? Have you had any issues? I'm still working to decide how to change mine over to something different and I'm really considering the unraid setup now.

Thank you.

Initially I had several questions with it that I had to either get answers to on their forums or do some searches, but all in all it has been a great experience.

Setup the initial system. First I found out that my 3tb drives required me to use the beta version (I think im running version 5 build 13). Then it was easy. Put the drives in and did the zero-out burn-in to make sure they were stable. After the couple of days or burn-in and standing them up the admin was almost 0 work. The shares took 5 minutes to setup and then I even added the xbox media server plugin for full 1080p/hd audio streaming to the ps3 in an mkv container. I also added plugins for things like safe power-down with an APC UPS.

The write speed is a little slow (like 25 MB/sec) due to the fact that it updates the parity drive real-time. But reads are about 100MBit/sec or more depending on your drives, which is plenty for full mkv/hd-audio playback with no studders. It puts drives to sleep when they arent in use which saves their lifespan and requires no day to day maintenance at all.
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post #1098 of 2436 Old 01-31-2012, 04:27 PM
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Thanks! Do you notice a delay in reading content while the drives spin up?

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post #1099 of 2436 Old 01-31-2012, 06:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks! Do you notice a delay in reading content while the drives spin up?

Depends. With my movies, no, since I use media browser, and the movie folders have all of the metadata and covers, the drives need to spin up when I launch it. So that spins them all up to view the library. If I am on my pc and the drives are all spun down and I go to my backup share, or my music share, it might take 3-5 seconds for them to spin up to be able to see my folder lists. The time to spin down is configurable as well. (Default is 1 hour)

I was thinking a little more about your question of admin too. The PS3 media server does require basic admin as it does not "auto-update" your libraries. So as I share all of my movies and TV shows, every once and a while I will need to update its list of what I have. So I go to the admin web page and just stop and start it (Just that plugin) and it refreshes the data.

The other 2 parts of admin you might run into is 1) Expansion. When you add new drives there is some admin work to do, not just the standard burn in, making sure your shares use the new drives. 2) Manual Parity Check. The parity gets updated during any write/edit, but every few weeks or so I'd run a complete parity check (I'd do i when I go to bed and then you have all night and your next work day for it to come back up). I've done that once now and found no issues.

I also haven't updated to any new versions. Until I run into a problem, why should I? It runs great as-is.
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post #1100 of 2436 Old 02-05-2012, 06:49 AM - Thread Starter
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2/4/12 - At long last, I have finished priming my theater's door & frame! It's just a big gray block right now, so no pictures yet, but at least BIG would is interested to know that there is some progress there!
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post #1101 of 2436 Old 02-05-2012, 09:22 AM
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post #1102 of 2436 Old 02-06-2012, 06:25 AM - Thread Starter
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And the first coat of red is now up as well, on the frame only though. Didn't get to painting the door. Looks like the primer held up pretty good though, this should only require 2 coats. +1 from wife.

Also, my wife and I saw a sale a few weeks back where we found one of these
http://www.vornado.com/product.aspx?...e-5e147541b97e
for like $70. So we picked one up. It's all black with a gray grille. So I set it up in the front corner of my theater on the stage. On low you can't even hear it and it moves the air in the room very well. It's not a completely hidden installation, but we had people over for the game yesterday and you wouldn't even notice the thing unless the lights were all on. That alone kept the room cool, if not cold. Much cheaper solution than a $1500 mini-split. They even come with a small remote. Yeah it's sort of ghetto-cooling, but I think I'm just going to stick with this. Simple solution for the winter months.
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post #1103 of 2436 Old 02-08-2012, 04:29 PM
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Quote:
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Two different materials with 2 different acoustical properties. The front wall is 2" 3lb dense cotton. The side walls to the riser are floor to ceiling 1" 3lb dense cotton. On the side walls between riser and rear wall is 5' high of 1" 3lb dense cotton (this is 5' up front foundation, not the riser). Rear wall was a 4" treatment, using OC703.

If you want specific details on why one or the other, I can't give them. Bryan Pape just said that is the material in his plan. Cotton performs better but is also more expensive. It is also harder to cut, but it is more dense and definitely has different physical properties that I'm sure have something to do with it. Softer, spongier, heavier.

The scrim paper is used for high frequency waves.


So the only oc703 used was on back wall and for your corner traps?

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post #1104 of 2436 Old 02-08-2012, 04:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by cdika17 View Post

So the only oc703 used was on back wall and for your corner traps?

Correct.
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post #1105 of 2436 Old 02-09-2012, 03:43 PM
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Correct.

What R value of cotton insulation did you use in your theater?

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post #1106 of 2436 Old 02-09-2012, 05:05 PM
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The R value is irrelevant. Damelon used both 1 and 2 inch 3 lb per cu ft recycled cotton insulation. Google acoustical cotton insulation for various sources and specifications. You'll find that the 3lb variety is denser than the cotton insulation sold for thermal applications.
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post #1107 of 2436 Old 02-09-2012, 05:25 PM
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The R value is irrelevant. Damelon used both 1 and 2 inch 3 lb per cu ft recycled cotton insulation. Google acoustical cotton insulation for various sources and specifications. You'll find that the 3lb variety is denser than the cotton insulation sold for thermal applications.

Was just asking because I am about to order and it comes in the following where I am at:

Part Number Description R-Value Square Ft. Weight
BL-N01316 3.5" x 16.25" x 94" 13 84.88 35.6 lbs
BL-N01324 3.5" x 24.25" x 94" 13 126.63 54 lbs
BL-N02116 5.5" x 16.25" x 94" 21 53.04 35.5 lbs
BL-N02124 5.5" x 24.25" x 94" 21 79.15 52.5 lbs
BL-N03016 8" x 16.25" x 48" 30 27.10 24.5 lbs
BL-N03024 8" x 24.25" x 48" 30 40.40 36.50 lbs

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post #1108 of 2436 Old 02-09-2012, 05:32 PM
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calculating, OK the first one comes in a box of 8 and is 1.44 lbs per cubic ft. You can do the math to see if any are closer to 3. if not this is thermal insulation not acoustical cotton.
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post #1109 of 2436 Old 02-09-2012, 06:23 PM
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calculating, OK the first one comes in a box of 8 and is 1.44 lbs per cubic ft. You can do the math to see if any are closer to 3. if not this is thermal insulation not acoustical cotton.

Hmm, it's this stuff that I have access too.

http://www.bondedlogic.com/construct...nim-insulation

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post #1110 of 2436 Old 02-09-2012, 06:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdika17 View Post

Was just asking because I am about to order and it comes in the following where I am at:

Part Number Description R-Value Square Ft. Weight
BL-N01316 3.5" x 16.25" x 94" 13 84.88 35.6 lbs
BL-N01324 3.5" x 24.25" x 94" 13 126.63 54 lbs
BL-N02116 5.5" x 16.25" x 94" 21 53.04 35.5 lbs
BL-N02124 5.5" x 24.25" x 94" 21 79.15 52.5 lbs
BL-N03016 8" x 16.25" x 48" 30 27.10 24.5 lbs
BL-N03024 8" x 24.25" x 48" 30 40.40 36.50 lbs

Just wanted to make sure you knew the model numbers mentioned above are for metal framing (slightly wider widths than those used for std wood framing).
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