The "Bacon Race" Theater / Patio / Bar Project - Page 38 - AVS Forum
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post #1111 of 2467 Old 02-09-2012, 06:48 PM
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The acoustical test data looks almost too good to be true at the low frequencies. What are you planning to do with this stuff?
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post #1112 of 2467 Old 02-09-2012, 06:57 PM
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PDF Version of the Bacon Race Theater - up to 09/02/12, thought it could be useful to some.


http://www.mediafire.com/?zviy8yjbmn7lb8o

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post #1113 of 2467 Old 02-09-2012, 07:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post

The acoustical test data looks almost too good to be true at the low frequencies. What are you planning to do with this stuff?

Thought about using it the same way, Damelon and yourself did in this theater build.

Also since oc703 is also not available to me either, i would be using it for my corner bass traps as well.

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post #1114 of 2467 Old 02-09-2012, 07:01 PM
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What kind of pricing did you get on this stuff?
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post #1115 of 2467 Old 02-09-2012, 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Spaceman View Post

What kind of pricing did you get on this stuff?

Being from Canada, it is tough to get a lot of the products used in most of the theater builds.

I have emails out to the few companies that sell cotton insulation in Canada, no replies on pricing yet.

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post #1116 of 2467 Old 02-09-2012, 07:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdika17 View Post

Thought about using it the same way, Damelon and yourself did in this theater build.

We used 1 inch thick stuff on the side walls.
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post #1117 of 2467 Old 02-09-2012, 07:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdika17 View Post

Hmm, it's this stuff that I have access too.

http://www.bondedlogic.com/construct...nim-insulation

That is what I bought to use on my front wall behind the speakers. I am going to build a basic framework with this stuff in it, covered with black acoustical fabric. This will be flanked by some yet to be determined corner bass traps and all hidden behind a false wall with AT material and AT screen.

I hope that this product works well. It was something like $50 for a bundle like the one shown above, only mine is 15" x 93" (8 pieces per bundle)...

Here are the acoustical measurements per their web site for those that don't want to go look.

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post #1118 of 2467 Old 02-10-2012, 08:53 AM - Thread Starter
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You could always email Bryan Pape and see if he can order it for you. Not sure what shipping costs. Wish you were closer or I could sell you my leftovers! I have a couple of boxes of the stuff still.

2" cotton on front wall
1" cotton on side walls
2" oc703 on the back with 2" air gap
oc703 for corner bass traps

Yeah the only data I had on the insulation was the thickness and the density. Since Bryan was the one who picked it out and sent it, I didn't question any of the specifics.

In any case, I am very happy with the sound in the room.
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post #1119 of 2467 Old 02-10-2012, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post

WEEKEND REPORT - ALL ABOUT FABRIC PANELS - Part 2

So we started with a pile of frames



Painted them Mouse Ears black



Wrapped and stapled (Porter Cable Upholstery stapler) with fabric. Don't even think about doing this with a manual stapler. My electric was never up to the challenge either.



You see that we added mid span support pieces to prevent bowing. These were just pieces of 1/2 plywood painted black on one side and held in position with the staples.

Then we fitted in the 1 inch cotton insulation, the mid span support was positioned to accommodate a full width piece of the cotton.





We added a belt of fabric scrap to keep the insulation from flopping out as we move them about.



As Damelon mentioned once we had the first one done and propped up on the wall we knew immediately that we had a problem. The columns were too orange. Now at this point we had already invested several hours picking out a color but it wasn't until we had several square feet of the fabric up on the wall that up could tell we had a problem. We pressed ahead somewhat bummed that we had this issue and finished a full section of the red panels so that we could position them and get a good look.



Yup, too orange.

So out with all the paint samples and we found a color that is going to work.

So back to making panels.

The rear wall acoustical plan (BPape) calls for two inches of rigid fiberglass board, two inches off the rear wall, with a paper scrim.

The two inch insulation (OC705) boards



A coat of 3M 77 spray adhesive. Notice we took this outside



on with the brown wrapping paper



and into a two inch frame. These were 4 layers of 1/2 inch plywood.



moved to the wall, you can see with fastened 2 inch furring strips to the walls to hold the panels, these were 2x3s cut down and attached with 3 1/2 inch screws.



Finally it was time to tackle that door section

to the left of the door

we put the insulation on the wall first



then popped on the frame



we will still need to staple and cut out for the switches later,

On to the other two sections.

We had these pesky hinges so we needed to add about 3/16 notch in the side of the panels so they would fit nicely.





on with the fabric






Last shot of the panels is a color test of the new paint and panel molding, we like it.



one other housekeeping detail is the air supply grill, 8 x 24 got painted and installed under the soffit.


As it was a ways back, I figured it best to quote the entire post.

At image 10, this is just kraft paper glued to the face of the 703 that is to the room right?

I know you spoke of 4" vs 2" and how Bpape felt about each, Is it my understanding that you went 2" in the end with the 2" air gap? The description below this 10th image stated 2". And so with image 12, that is the back wall and you have 2" furring to which the 2" panel attached, is this accurate?

How were the panels attached to the furring strips, just finish nails and glue again? Also, did the 2" panels with kraft paper face and 2" air gap go floor to ceiling?

Do you know if this back wall design varies by application or is that something that only Bpape can answer for me?
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post #1120 of 2467 Old 02-10-2012, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post

Before any one asks - we are going to be using the Gpowers panel attachment method, glue and hold them in place with a few finish nails through the fabric and frame.

We haven't attached anything yet

When you say this, does that mean the panel is glued directly to the wall and then a finish nail into the drywall?
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post #1121 of 2467 Old 02-10-2012, 01:05 PM
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Liquid nails glue, one finish nail per corner shot through the fabric and frame into the drywall
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post #1122 of 2467 Old 02-10-2012, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damelon View Post

You could always email Bryan Pape and see if he can order it for you. Not sure what shipping costs. Wish you were closer or I could sell you my leftovers! I have a couple of boxes of the stuff still.

2" cotton on front wall
1" cotton on side walls
2" oc703 on the back with 2" air gap
oc703 for corner bass traps

Yeah the only data I had on the insulation was the thickness and the density. Since Bryan was the one who picked it out and sent it, I didn't question any of the specifics.

In any case, I am very happy with the sound in the room.

Ya i plan on talking with Bryan here soon, just about to start demo this week, so timing of everything is key.

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post #1123 of 2467 Old 02-10-2012, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post

Liquid nails glue, one finish nail per corner shot through the fabric and frame into the drywall

Would this be equivalent to liquid nails?

http://www.lepage.com/ProductDetail.aspx?pid=74

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post #1124 of 2467 Old 02-10-2012, 02:37 PM
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post #1125 of 2467 Old 02-10-2012, 03:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smakovits View Post

When you say this, does that mean the panel is glued directly to the wall and then a finish nail into the drywall?

Except with the back wall. We put 2" furing strips on the back wall and then used to liquid nails/finish nails through the panel into the strips.

On the 1" panels (Sidewalls) we did this directly to the drywall.

The 2" panels presented more of a challenge with the nails we used due to the thickness of the panel frames.
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post #1126 of 2467 Old 02-10-2012, 03:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smakovits View Post

As it was a ways back, I figured it best to quote the entire post.

At image 10, this is just kraft paper glued to the face of the 703 that is to the room right?

I know you spoke of 4" vs 2" and how Bpape felt about each, Is it my understanding that you went 2" in the end with the 2" air gap? The description below this 10th image stated 2". And so with image 12, that is the back wall and you have 2" furring to which the 2" panel attached, is this accurate?

How were the panels attached to the furring strips, just finish nails and glue again? Also, did the 2" panels with kraft paper face and 2" air gap go floor to ceiling?

Do you know if this back wall design varies by application or is that something that only Bpape can answer for me?

It does vary per application. We even discussed 2" all around (2" back wall and 2" side wall) so depending on your speakers, your dimensions, etc. Bryan, or another treatment professional, would be able to help you with this. Bryan really wanted 4" of treatment on the back wall, but he said 2" of 703 with a 2" gap was 90% as effective as a 4" piece of 703, so it was more cost effective but no necessarily the highest performing solution.
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post #1127 of 2467 Old 02-11-2012, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdika17 View Post

PDF Version of the Bacon Race Theater - up to 09/02/12, thought it could be useful to some.

http://www.mediafire.com/?zviy8yjbmn7lb8o

Damelon, maybe add this link to first post? Just a thought.

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post #1128 of 2467 Old 02-12-2012, 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted by damelon View Post

Closed

Where did you find the long throw hinges? Did you buy them locally or did you mail order? Details please.

Follow my build here: Harvest Ridge Theater
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post #1129 of 2467 Old 02-12-2012, 07:39 PM
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Materials Door Hinges Hardware Source 117.71

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...9#post21138019

From hardwaresource.com

On the cost breakdown post, posted a link above.

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post #1130 of 2467 Old 02-12-2012, 10:06 PM
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Amazing how expensive some hinges can be.

So if I have a thick wall and a thicker than normal door... I want it to be "flush" on the outside of the room and open into the theater, these types of hinges will still work, right? Your picture shows the door opening towards the camera, but also flush on this side. I would like it flush on the other side...

Just thought that I would ask before I drop a chunk of change on door hinges.
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post #1131 of 2467 Old 02-13-2012, 06:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by nickbuol View Post

Amazing how expensive some hinges can be.

So if I have a thick wall and a thicker than normal door... I want it to be "flush" on the outside of the room and open into the theater, these types of hinges will still work, right? Your picture shows the door opening towards the camera, but also flush on this side. I would like it flush on the other side...

Just thought that I would ask before I drop a chunk of change on door hinges.

The picture above is a great example. You see the hinge sticks out that extra inch because we planned on making the wall an extra inch deeper. In this case the door is flush with the wall.

The door can't be flush on the other side and open inwards if that is what you are asking. (At least not with any normal hinge) Think about how the door-jam is made. It has trim in the center where the door rests against, and there is a mitred in section on the side where the hinge goes in, which always goes to the outside edge. This is so the actual hinge portion always rests outside of the doorjam. Yes, there are doors at places that swing both ways, but they dont use hinges usually. They are on a swivel-pin.

It can be flush on the other side and open outwards. The depth of the hinge matters based on the thickness of the door. Since we were adding another inch of material, we wanted the hinge point to be an inch into the room rather than at the actual doorjam, which is the standard hinge. Bigger hinges are uncommon, like thicker doorknobs, because 99% of the time there is no need for them.

I went back to the materials list and added the links to the doorknob and hinge I purchased by the way
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post #1132 of 2467 Old 02-13-2012, 07:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damelon View Post

Except with the back wall. We put 2" furing strips on the back wall and then used to liquid nails/finish nails through the panel into the strips.

On the 1" panels (Sidewalls) we did this directly to the drywall.

The 2" panels presented more of a challenge with the nails we used due to the thickness of the panel frames.

I am sort of surprised the nails into the drywall really do anything. I guess maybe they just keep things in place long enough for the glue to dry and then ultimately it is the liquid nails keeping things in place.

Also good to know about the nails into the strips. I feel the need to reach out the Bryan
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post #1133 of 2467 Old 02-13-2012, 07:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by smakovits View Post

I am sort of surprised the nails into the drywall really do anything. I guess maybe they just keep things in place long enough for the glue to dry and then ultimately it is the liquid nails keeping things in place.

That's pretty much it, yes. Keep in mind, the only purpose is a way to connect sound panels in place. Not to make them permanent. The nails themselves would easily get pulled out with minimal effort. The liquid nails though together with them keeps them well in place. Not to mention the panels are floor to ceiling, which means vertically they all have the support of the panels below them.

If they were just in the middle of the wall all by themselves, we wouldn't have done it that way, they would have required more support.
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For the frames, did you guys layer half inch lumber to get the 1 and 2 inch thicknesses? If I may ask, why? As opposed to just using lumber of that thickness?
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post #1135 of 2467 Old 02-13-2012, 07:35 AM
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As far as the panels on the side, you said that only the bottom 5' are treated, so the top panels are just basic fabric frames to allow reflection, is that right?

Was that a bpape solution recommendation? I know many often do full treatment, so I wonder what the overall difference is.
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post #1136 of 2467 Old 02-13-2012, 07:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smakovits View Post

For the frames, did you guys layer half inch lumber to get the 1 and 2 inch thicknesses? If I may ask, why? As opposed to just using lumber of that thickness?

Primarily because there is no lumber with this exact thickness. You can get plywood up to 3/4" usually, and dimensional lumber (like 2x2s) is not the width it says it is. It is always smaller. Also, we tested the rigidness of single piece lumber. We could cut plywood to the exact width we wanted, and it was much more rigid and strong than MDF when it came to a thin strip and tight fabric being pulled over it. We didn't want it to bend like a bow.
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post #1137 of 2467 Old 02-13-2012, 07:37 AM
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I am sort of surprised the nails into the drywall really do anything.




ceiling molding is just nails, nothing has come loose after 6+ years.
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post #1138 of 2467 Old 02-13-2012, 07:39 AM
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Primarily because there is no lumber with this exact thickness. You can get plywood up to 3/4" usually, and dimensional lumber (like 2x2s) is not the width it says it is. It is always smaller. Also, we tested the rigidness of single piece lumber. We could cut plywood to the exact width we wanted, and it was much more rigid and strong than MDF when it came to a thin strip and tight fabric being pulled over it. We didn't want it to bend like a bow.

ah, makes sense...I gues I forgot 2x4s are not really 2x4, so buying in 1/2" thickness, it is much easier.
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post #1139 of 2467 Old 02-13-2012, 07:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smakovits View Post

As far as the panels on the side, you said that only the bottom 5' are treated, so the top panels are just basic fabric frames to allow reflection, is that right?

Was that a bpape solution recommendation? I know many often do full treatment, so I wonder what the overall difference is.

Partially true. Only the bottom 5' of the panels along the riser (behind the rear side columns) are treated. In front 2/3 of the sides are floor-to-ceiling treated. The reason for the small gap of untreated area behind the panels in the rear is to allow some reflections from the rear speakers. It makes that area a little more "live".
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post #1140 of 2467 Old 02-13-2012, 07:41 AM - Thread Starter
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ceiling molding is just nails, nothing has come loose after 6+ years.

If it was just moulding, sure. But a full panel filled with cotton padding is just a bit heavier, not to mention a single piece!

Every time I see your theater BIG, I think of that secret door on your column where your rack is and get so jealous. I love hidden doors.
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