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post #2101 of 2467 Old 10-12-2013, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by jkasanic View Post

Just curious if you have a preference on brand of 4TB drives? Have you seen them for less than $150? I've seen the 3TB's for under $100 so they seem to be the sweet spot right now. I was waiting for BF pricing to upgrade my UnRAID server to release 5 and take advantage of the larger disk sizes.

Costco sells Seagate 4TB external USB for $139 everyday price no rebates. smile.gif

As far as brands, I've used then all and basically a hdd is a HDD. I guess I favor Seagate but I'd happily take a hitachi / Toshiba / WD for less cost.

WD is probably my least favorite these days which is big change from past. I did not get burned just WD products are not as good these days. They aren't worth a premium anymore.

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post #2102 of 2467 Old 10-12-2013, 12:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jkasanic View Post

Just curious if you have a preference on brand of 4TB drives? Have you seen them for less than $150? I've seen the 3TB's for under $100 so they seem to be the sweet spot right now. I was waiting for BF pricing to upgrade my UnRAID server to release 5 and take advantage of the larger disk sizes.

I purchased the 4GB HGST (7200rpm) drives when they were on sale for $140. Those are normally about $200 drives so it was a good deal. Usually the best prices though are the Seagate ones. Their external drives usually contain the 5900 rpm ones for significantly cheaper than the OEM ones. I really don't have a preference. I was looking for 3TB drives but the sale was too good to pass up on the 4TB. Really I'd buy almost any brand, just depends on what kinds of deals are out there, but they are all about the same reliability wise these days.
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post #2103 of 2467 Old 10-12-2013, 07:44 PM
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Slickdeals.net has a good app for your phone that can help you search out good deals. $140 for a 4TB is a great deal these days biggrin.gif as is $99 for 3TB. If you see anything near that you are doing well.

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post #2104 of 2467 Old 10-13-2013, 12:06 PM
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post #2105 of 2467 Old 10-13-2013, 06:14 PM
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D, think about it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySoW-SmHMn4

That's just awesome !!!

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post #2106 of 2467 Old 10-14-2013, 06:10 AM - Thread Starter
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D, think about it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySoW-SmHMn4

Yeah, they didn't cut corners on anything there... look at the rich couple in their car and house... stop here if you still think you can afford this... ahhaa
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post #2107 of 2467 Old 10-18-2013, 09:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks! (For the compliment and the links for the REW pages) Yes with the 3 day weekend coming, I will have the time to do it, I just need to kick myself to do it! I did have several discussions with Mark and used his Audyssey recommendations and it did make a big difference. I do have "good" bass but not "great" bass. I also think that the Submersive Master/Slave options are perfect for my theater and was looking at this just yesterday actually. The party that initially contacted me about possibly buying the pair of my Axiom subs is currently not able to still do so, so I'd have to worry about that whole mess. So I do plan to measure my room at some point (Hopefully as soon as this weekend) and I do still have a significant interest in buying a pair of submersives.

So there were no measurements done last weekend on account that it appears one of my subs has a fault in the amp which is causing the DSP to crap out somehow. Sub just randomly distorts and after swapping woofers between subs, testing cables, etc we have determined the problem resides in one of the amp back-planes. So off it goes to Axiom! Fortunately I still have the amp shipping box so I'll have to wait for a return but I'll do some measurements afterwords.
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post #2108 of 2467 Old 10-29-2013, 12:15 PM
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Hey Damelon,

 

When you created your soffit frames to cover the bass trap part in the soffit, was that all one piece of plywood with a rectangle cut out or did you construct it from strips?

 

Thanks.


Avengers Assemble
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post #2109 of 2467 Old 10-29-2013, 12:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by killravenx View Post

Hey Damelon,

When you created your soffit frames to cover the bass trap part in the soffit, was that all one piece of plywood with a rectangle cut out or did you construct it from strips?

Thanks.

It was cut out from one piece of plywood. We discussed doing them "Stick Built" but decided to just cut out the sections not used. Some of them needed to be solid in certain sections anyway (Like where the venting was) to isolate the HVAC. Took a lot less time in any case.
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post #2110 of 2467 Old 10-29-2013, 02:11 PM
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Very interesting. I have been thinking about how to do this part of the soffit over the last couple days, and this is going to make it a lot easier!! Did you have any issues with the plywood warping or bending? Or did it take care of itself when you fastened it in place?
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post #2111 of 2467 Old 10-30-2013, 07:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by sgolko View Post

Very interesting. I have been thinking about how to do this part of the soffit over the last couple days, and this is going to make it a lot easier!! Did you have any issues with the plywood warping or bending? Or did it take care of itself when you fastened it in place?

This was one of the reasons we went with plywood to begin with. Because of the nature of plywood, (Pressed together) if you are pulling along the sides it is very hard to bend. Even when we built our fabric frames we used plywood "Strips" over MDF because it was much more sturdy.

Here was a quote where I described it:
Quote:
Soffit Fabric. Oddly enough, wrapping the soffit panels was much harder than the speaker frames. Mostly due to the round edges of the pipes. There was a lot more places for the fabric to catch on the plywood. We just used 8' long 3/4" plywood for the soffit panels. On the sections that covered the HVAC ducts, we made it a solid plywood board. On the other sections, we cut out the center. You may wonder why we bothered to do this, since it ends up just a frame. Seems like a lot of waste for wood, but in truth, it was easy, almost cost the same, and saved a ton of time. Making frames out of MDF or plywood that would not bend under the tension of the tightened GOM would not be easy. Plywood natrually is very difficult to bend in the direction parallel to its compression pattern (from side to side across the 3/4" thickness) unless it is an extreme length. We had 2 8' panels that were completely open in the middle. We made one completely hollow, and the other two big holes (so there is a middle support). There were two shorter hollow panels that were about 4'6" or so, and that did not need a support. But the 8' panel did, or it would bend.

Looks like when we did a full 8' long piece, we left about a 1" brace in the center to brace it from bending and cut out two large sections (Sort of like a "window")

Also, I remember when we were purchasing the plywood, we assumed 8' (The length of the plywood boards) would be the default length, and how we could fit the most 8' pieces in, and then fill in the rest. Once you knew those pieces, you could draw them out on the plywood board (Length and width) so you could make the most efficient cuts and use the least total wood. Some of the sections (See pictures in the link below) were mostly solid or complete solid where the ducting was, and had cutouts only for the registers to keep it isolated. The rest were open to help absorb bass.

Soffits are also an ideal place to run cables and conduit, so make sure you do so to help future proof for new cables! Larger pipes make easier snaking of cables!

Here was a link to the page where there were photos Photos/Description
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post #2112 of 2467 Old 11-05-2013, 10:04 AM
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gorgeous looking effort guys! I knew exactly where the home was located when I saw the name "Bacon Race"...I used to ride MTB's back in those woods before moving up a bit further north (my parents lived off Mohican until Feb). I'm looking at the Alpha 8's as well.
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post #2113 of 2467 Old 11-05-2013, 10:49 AM - Thread Starter
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gorgeous looking effort guys! I knew exactly where the home was located when I saw the name "Bacon Race"...I used to ride MTB's back in those woods before moving up a bit further north (my parents lived off Mohican until Feb). I'm looking at the Alpha 8's as well.

Nice! It's a hard name to forget. Thanks for the kind words. Yeah most of the area back here is developed now, but they did leave most of the trees which is also nice. It's funny sometimes how small of a world it really is.

Update:
Sub#2 still out of commission. Hopefully will get the return from Axiom by Thanksgiving.
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post #2114 of 2467 Old 11-05-2013, 11:00 AM
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Update:
Sub#2 still out of commission. Hopefully will get the return from Axiom by Thanksgiving.

 

I was just about to ask about those REW measurements!

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post #2115 of 2467 Old 11-05-2013, 01:04 PM - Thread Starter
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I was just about to ask about those REW measurements!

I know...I can do them as soon as the sub returns. Hopefully I can follow the "How To" thread on here without problems so I can get those done. I think learning how to do that will be a lot of fun, and I've been wanting to do this for a long time. BIG even discussed wanting to measure the room when we finished it... so it's been a couple of years and still not done. I'm such a slacker.
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post #2116 of 2467 Old 11-22-2013, 12:39 PM - Thread Starter
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My Subwoofer arrived back from Axiom today! So I will likely run some measurements during Thanksgiving weekend sometime.
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post #2117 of 2467 Old 11-25-2013, 07:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by damelon View Post

My Subwoofer arrived back from Axiom today! So I will likely run some measurements during Thanksgiving weekend sometime.

I hooked up the sub this weekend, made sure the volume knob was set back at its original measurement volume and the issue was resolved. I was scared initially because there was a rattle, but I had forgotten to tighten a screw and that was the issue. Put a couple of bass-heavy soundtracks in and it is working like I had hoped. Still, due to the placement and massive bass-absorption in the room, I still am leaning toward upgrading to a submersive pair, but I did just buy a backup server for my NAS data so I might wait until next year for that.

I also think that BrolicBeast might be coming this coming weekend to check out the theater so I can also get his opinion as well!
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post #2118 of 2467 Old 12-01-2013, 08:05 PM
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Originally Posted by damelon View Post


I hooked up the sub this weekend, made sure the volume knob was set back at its original measurement volume and the issue was resolved. I was scared initially because there was a rattle, but I had forgotten to tighten a screw and that was the issue. Put a couple of bass-heavy soundtracks in and it is working like I had hoped. Still, due to the placement and massive bass-absorption in the room, I still am leaning toward upgrading to a submersive pair, but I did just buy a backup server for my NAS data so I might wait until next year for that.

I also think that BrolicBeast might be coming this coming weekend to check out the theater so I can also get his opinion as well!

Great meeting you man! This is one awesome room you've got.  It's a pity we didn't have more time to delve into more clips, but the bass in the Man of Steel clip was good, although getting those Submersives would take it to the next level.  There actually seemed to be quite a bit of bass where I was sitting, although I didn't go from seat-to-seat during the demo. I forgot to ask: which seat do you normally use?  I'm thinking, if you're experiencing lack of bass from your normal listening position, then that left seat in the front row might be the location of a peak, as it was quite plentiful there.  Time for a B.R.E.W. degree (Bachelors in R.E.W.) because Lord knows it takes about four years to fully understand the intricacies of R.E.W.

 

Hmmm, I'm sure plenty of college students across the world are currently working on mastering a different kind of Brew. lol. :D

 

Man, your dogs are MASSIVE!!!

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post #2119 of 2467 Old 12-02-2013, 06:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Great meeting you man! This is one awesome room you've got.  It's a pity we didn't have more time to delve into more clips, but the bass in the Man of Steel clip was good, although getting those Submersives would take it to the next level.  There actually seemed to be quite a bit of bass where I was sitting, although I didn't go from seat-to-seat during the demo. I forgot to ask: which seat do you normally use?  I'm thinking, if you're experiencing lack of bass from your normal listening position, then that left seat in the front row might be the location of a peak, as it was quite plentiful there.  Time for a B.R.E.W. degree (Bachelors in R.E.W.) because Lord knows it takes about four years to fully understand the intricacies of R.E.W.

Hmmm, I'm sure plenty of college students across the world are currently working on mastering a different kind of Brew. lol. biggrin.gif

Man, your dogs are MASSIVE!!!

Hey man, thanks for stopping by! It is always nice to get someone else's perspective. I tend to get pretty set in my ways sometimes. It's funny how when you grow your movie collection to a certain size how difficult it is to pick one or two movies as an example for a demo. I agree that it would have been nice to have more time too. I was told later that we had plans that evening so I'm sorry we had to cut it short! I am excited to see what you decide to do with your room, there are so many great ideas here on the forums now, it is constantly a better and better resource to find examples of things that you want to do!

The bass is definitely much better now that the second sub has been repaired. Supposedly, it is not supposed to be possible to blow out the woofer on those subs due to their DSP, but it was the amp that had an issue anyway, and it is a pain to ship something like that to canada and back, though Axiom did make the process easy. I usually sit front and center. The back row is fine but the front row is the perfect screen-size ratio for my eyes.

I know what you mean about R.E.W. It seems like a lot of work and every time I think I have a free weekend, so much stuff comes up.

Yeah, the dogs are getting big. To think they are 9.5 months old and still growing too. I tend to miss them as little pups but they grow so fast!
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post #2120 of 2467 Old 12-04-2013, 08:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Update : Backup NAS!

Over the years I have been slowly converting all of my media so it is accessible from one location. In the past, I have lost both music and photos from hard drive crashes and more recently (4 or so years ago) I lost half of my movie rips to a double hard drive failure on a RAID-5 system. About the same time I finished my theater two years ago I built a new NAS using unRaid because to me, I liked the feature set much better than a typical hardware Raid 5. It didn't seem to tax the disks as much and in the event of a dual drive failure, I liked that I would still be able to access my media on all un-affected drives. Once I built that NAS I slowly moved all of my media from my old RAID 5 system to my NAS and retired a lot of my old 1 and 1.5TB hard drives. More recently I replaced the remaining 4 x 1.5TB drives that I re-used with 3 TB or 4TB drives. I have not yet had a drive failure in my NAS, and have found unRaid to be extremely reliable. Other than turning off the power due to actual power outages, I haven't had any downtime.

Still, there comes a point where you start to think about what would happen in the case of a system failure. I have so much media now that the process of re-ripping it would be a nightmare. Though under almost any scenario I would be able to retain MOST of my collection, I don't want to take chances. So over the span of november I took advantage of a lot of pre-black friday and black friday sales and built a backup NAS. The purpose of this NAS is nothing more than to be an offline mirror of my unraid box. I have a copy of windows installed and also used a program called "Allway Sync". This allows me to mirror each individual drive in my unraid array to a drive in my backup NAS and manually re-sync them at any point in the future. Most files on my NAS never change, and so drives will only have data to sync when I add new media to the NAS. Every 2-4 weeks, depending on updates to the server, I will perform a drive by drive sync over the network, then shut down my backup. I may even take the next step and put those drives in a fire safe. For files like photos, I already upload all of them to the cloud, so even in a catastrophic event like my whole house burning down, I wouldn't lose those, and insurance would have to cover the loss of everything anyway. (Except my time to re-rip my movies!)

Several people have asked if I looked for a cloud solution. I could use the unlimited option for software like crashplan, and there have been documented ways to count a mounted network drive as part of your actual machine, but the time is impractical. Right now I have 21 TB of space used in my NAS, and the time just to backup would be obscene. Not to mention would hog my bandwidth while it was running. I know I could also mail my drives in for the initial mirror, but that would mean that they could get damaged during the process and that is too risky.

I know, a backup is not a true backup unless it is off-site. Right now they are at opposite corners of my house, both in the basement near concrete slabbed corners, so even if I had a house fire, there is a good chance that one would survive. I'm not going for absolute worst case scenario here, just trying to cover the most common forms of data loss. When your media library grows to such a large size, backing it up becomes complicated and losing that data becomes painful to the point of madness! This will at least alleviate most of my worries, and I won't have to cross my fingers when I do a drive repair/upgrade in the future.
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post #2121 of 2467 Old 12-04-2013, 08:33 AM
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I worry about my data too. I just built my first media server a couple of months ago and already have over 275 blu-ray and another 40ish DVD rips from our movie collection. I also am using it as a backup for our photos and videos. I did, however, set up an external drive for the backup drive of those photos and videos so that if something happens at the house (and we are able to) I could grab the external drive as I am running out the door. I also have taken yearly sets of photos and backed them up on to DVD (and recently on to dual layer blu-ray discs) and send them off every Christmas to my in-laws who live out of state. That is my offsite backup for them.

But that still leaves me with the movie rips. It would take a LOT of time to re-rip things in the case of a disaster. I am using FlexRAID (another software RAID5 solution) and should have similar recovery options based off of what you are saying about UnRAID. I too looked at the cloud, but came to the same conclusions about backup time, my monthly cap, issues with shipping drives initially, plus just the understanding that if a big failure happened and I needed to recover 2 drives (since I can recover locally from a single drive failure), that would be 6TB of data to download (two 3TB drives). So cloud storage doesn't work for that type of situation. Heck, with my monthly internet cap at 250GB, I can't even come up with an over-the-internet backup of too many rips to say a backup server at my in-laws. I still need to use the internet for other things. Sure, maybe when I get done with my last approx 30 blu-ray rips, things will slow down, but I have been trying to come up with a solution myself.

My server has six 3TB drives and I don't have the amount of used storage, but it is still a LOT of data used. Just the drives alone would run me about $600 if I get them on sale. Sure the backup wouldn't need much horsepower, but still requires a decent mobo for that number of sata ports, and the usual case, power supply, etc. I don't need fast, but I like quality.

So maybe in spring or something after we get past some recent and upcoming significant expenses, but even still, like you say, it isn't off-site or anything, so a fire, flood, or whatever would still not save either machine. At that point, wouldn't it be better to have a drive sitting either unused in a box, or online as a "hot" spare to do a rebuild right at the time of failure? It would take time to rebuild that drive using the parity data, but would be faster than having to wait for a drive to be ordered and shipped. You still have the same level of catastrophic failure protection from a drive failure point of view, and are no worse off in the case of fire/flood, but for less money.

Of course, like I mentioned, I am out of sata ports to make something a spare, but maybe I should at least buy ONE drive as a disaster replacement for $100 until something different can be done later.


Bet you didn't realize that you would get such a lengthy response to your post about data backup. biggrin.gif
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post #2122 of 2467 Old 12-04-2013, 09:20 AM - Thread Starter
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I worry about my data too. I just built my first media server a couple of months ago and already have over 275 blu-ray and another 40ish DVD rips from our movie collection. I also am using it as a backup for our photos and videos. I did, however, set up an external drive for the backup drive of those photos and videos so that if something happens at the house (and we are able to) I could grab the external drive as I am running out the door. I also have taken yearly sets of photos and backed them up on to DVD (and recently on to dual layer blu-ray discs) and send them off every Christmas to my in-laws who live out of state. That is my offsite backup for them.

But that still leaves me with the movie rips. It would take a LOT of time to re-rip things in the case of a disaster. I am using FlexRAID (another software RAID5 solution) and should have similar recovery options based off of what you are saying about UnRAID. I too looked at the cloud, but came to the same conclusions about backup time, my monthly cap, issues with shipping drives initially, plus just the understanding that if a big failure happened and I needed to recover 2 drives (since I can recover locally from a single drive failure), that would be 6TB of data to download (two 3TB drives). So cloud storage doesn't work for that type of situation. Heck, with my monthly internet cap at 250GB, I can't even come up with an over-the-internet backup of too many rips to say a backup server at my in-laws. I still need to use the internet for other things. Sure, maybe when I get done with my last approx 30 blu-ray rips, things will slow down, but I have been trying to come up with a solution myself.

My server has six 3TB drives and I don't have the amount of used storage, but it is still a LOT of data used. Just the drives alone would run me about $600 if I get them on sale. Sure the backup wouldn't need much horsepower, but still requires a decent mobo for that number of sata ports, and the usual case, power supply, etc. I don't need fast, but I like quality.

So maybe in spring or something after we get past some recent and upcoming significant expenses, but even still, like you say, it isn't off-site or anything, so a fire, flood, or whatever would still not save either machine. At that point, wouldn't it be better to have a drive sitting either unused in a box, or online as a "hot" spare to do a rebuild right at the time of failure? It would take time to rebuild that drive using the parity data, but would be faster than having to wait for a drive to be ordered and shipped. You still have the same level of catastrophic failure protection from a drive failure point of view, and are no worse off in the case of fire/flood, but for less money.

Of course, like I mentioned, I am out of sata ports to make something a spare, but maybe I should at least buy ONE drive as a disaster replacement for $100 until something different can be done later.


Bet you didn't realize that you would get such a lengthy response to your post about data backup. biggrin.gif

You're right, I didn't expect that kind of response! know a lot of people with a NAS think about backing it up but decide against it (the movies at least) due to the space required. If your collection is small (4TB or less) you can just back it all up to a single external HDD and your job is done. This was more complicated.

I got an ASROCK mobo on sale that had 10 SATA3 ports on it, which was just enough for my 9 drives + a windows drive. I still have another SATA2 card for another 2-4 drives but I don't need it atm. Just put a really low end i3 in it and 4GB of ram and it worked like a champ. No to mention it as SUPER quiet. Before I had hard drives / drive bays in it, I couldn't even hear it when it was on, even with the case opened.

I got this case (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00BG5CBJG/ref=pe_385040_30332190_TE_M3T1_ST1_dp_1) on Amazon for $75 and it is an amazing case for the price. Removable bay locks so i could go "Screwless", 10 screwless bay covers in the front, and then just put in some 2->3 hot swaps in it (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004IMKTUW/ref=pe_385040_30332190_TE_3p_M3T1_ST1_dp_1) which I picked up for $60 ea. Was chepaer than buying 2 of the 3->5 bays and I got all 9 of my drives in. They slid right into that case with no issues and are constructed well.

Very happy with how it's working so far.
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post #2123 of 2467 Old 12-04-2013, 09:29 AM
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Yeah, I'm using an ASROCK mobo with 8 sata connections (6 for data hard drives, 1 for SDD O/S, and 1 for a Blu-Ray drive since I have been ripping right on the server. I guess at some point I could pull the Blu-Ray drive and add another data HD.
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post #2124 of 2467 Old 12-04-2013, 09:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by nickbuol View Post

Yeah, I'm using an ASROCK mobo with 8 sata connections (6 for data hard drives, 1 for SDD O/S, and 1 for a Blu-Ray drive since I have been ripping right on the server. I guess at some point I could pull the Blu-Ray drive and add another data HD.

Yeah I initially had the cdrom on the backup server to install windows and whatnot but pulled it after the system was setup. Dont need it for the purpose of a pure backup
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post #2125 of 2467 Old 12-05-2013, 10:22 AM
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Which ASROCK mobo did you get with 10 SATA ports?  Also, what is the configuration of your everyday UnRAID server (i.e. mb, ram, processor, case etc.)?

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post #2126 of 2467 Old 12-05-2013, 11:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Which ASROCK mobo did you get with 10 SATA ports?  Also, what is the configuration of your everyday UnRAID server (i.e. mb, ram, processor, case etc.)?

I got the ASROCK Z87 Extreme 6 - paired it with a really low end i3 to use the integrated graphics and such.

My unraid server was (I believe) a first generation i7 with 8gb ram. I'm not sure of the mobo. Asus or Gigabyte probably. I had to buy an extra sata2 card since that motherboard had maybe 6-8 sata2 ports at the most. For a video card I believe I used my first HTPC card. Really didn't need it for much so it just had to boot! hehe.

The case for the unraid is a UFO-U2 case. I must have purchased it 7 years ago and am still using it today! It's like an 18" cube and has something like 10 200mm fans. The hard drive tray can hold 8-10 drives, not sure exactly, and then on top of that it has 5 5.25 bays on front that you can add a hot swap module to. I got it originally for water cooling since it had so much space but with all of the fans and room it was easy to put a ton of hard drives in there now that I dont need it. It really stays cool and both sides and top panels come completely off, so it's really easy to get inside of. (http://www.mountainmods.com/u2-ufo-mirror-black-powder-coat-original-top-p-77.html) That company has since made so many variations on it and much much bigger versions too. A bit overkill for just a NAS but re-using old parts was the big incentive for me! I did a couple of mods to it to add a custom fan controller into the front and a fillport at the top. Still a great case all of these years later, just big!

Here were some shots of the watercooling build way back when (From 2006-7)


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post #2127 of 2467 Old 12-05-2013, 12:07 PM - Thread Starter
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The case I'm still using for my desktop is a Corsair Obsidian tower. It's a lot heavier than the cube above. I also purchased it to do a watercooling setup. This was my last foray into it, but I don't bother anymore. It was fun to build though! Here were some pics of that last build:



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post #2128 of 2467 Old 12-05-2013, 02:31 PM
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You are a computer nerd Damelon.

You inspired my unRaid server project, at the opposite end of the coolness spectrum. Behold, recycled Dell PE700:

High Desert Theater - work in progress
Building Bass - Subs

Surrounds - Easy as Pi

Storage - unRAID unDELL

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post #2129 of 2467 Old 12-05-2013, 03:38 PM
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Jeez all the PC talk I missed out on.... eek.gif

I shoulda been paying attention!

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"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
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post #2130 of 2467 Old 12-05-2013, 03:57 PM
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Yeah, where have you been Mfusick?
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