The "Bacon Race" Theater / Patio / Bar Project - Page 83 - AVS Forum
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post #2461 of 2565 Old 07-21-2014, 11:19 AM - Thread Starter
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So I think I have figured out what I'm going to do for the most part to resolve most of my "finishing" problems with the bar project....

First, when I made an estimate on the screws for the glass shelves, I based it off of the stone depth + drywall + an inch into the stud. What I forgot was the backing to the stone, which with the mesh was a good 1/2", so my screws came up a little short. As a result, I ordered screws to adjust for this, but because they are not normal size, I had to get them online instead of at a local store. I had the maximum length I could purchase already there. I should get those this week.

Second, after some careful calculations, there is no way I can put the 2nd shelf where I planned to. In fact, it could not intersect any of the large piece of stone to the right of the rightmost bracket because it was by far the largest stone on the wall, and the angle the shelf would need to be to cover this would not work with a flat backed shelf. The middle shelf was already planned to be offset, but not by much, only 6-8" or so. So I thought I could offset it more to the next stud. What I didn't notice is that since it is so close to a corner, and that we had two different turns close by on that wall, the next stud was 18" over and not 16" over, the shelf was not long enough to fit. There is a glass company just down the road however, and they sell custom length shelves, so I ordered a shelf that should fit exactly based on where the stud would be and where the bracket would go. This should take a week.

Third, because of the variable protrusions of the varied pieces of stone, the shelves of course could not rest completely flush against the wall. This means that either the brackets may not be flush against the wall, or the shelf might not come 100% back to the brackets. The brackets I purchased of a minimal depth for an 8" deep shelf, so they were unable to hold a shelf sturdy for the 3rd shelf down. As a result I ordered new "Raven" brackets instead of the "Peacock" brackets that I had. This should provide additional stability. Also, some of the places where the studs are happen to be where a vertical groove of mortar is residing, meaning that there is no solid backing for the bracket to rest against. I will buy some flat pieces of steel or aluminum to brace it across these sections, or if required, a thin piece to span the entire width of the shelf across all 3 mounting points, thus giving it a flush backing base.

Although the top shelf seems to be study, I will replace the brackets with the deeper ones there too to make sure my "top shelf" bottles can be placed there and not have to worry about the shelf falling.

This should take care of my shelving issues.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As for the outlets and switches, I swapped all of the ones in the bar to "Brown", and they are currently surface mounted. Some of the boxes like the GFCI box, I used several extender boxes, but on others I just used long screws with nuts to extend it. I did have issues again when it came to the variable depths of the pieces of stone, so while it looks good from a distance, if you walk up to the back of the bar and look down on the wall plate, you are able to see about a 1/4-1/2" gap along the top of the box to the gap inside where the electronics are. I don't know what I will use yet, But I will probably find some sort of thin plastic corner piece that I can glue to the back of the top of the wall plate, cut to size, and then paint the other edge to match the wall plate.

Some of the switches, such as the "whole house audio" controller outside of the theater are only white, and thus the switches on that box and the wall plate are also white. If I can find a replacement brown plate in the future, I will replace all of these. This wall plate has the same issue as the ones behind the bar. I will use the same solution there. The other one is the media access plate behind the bar to the side. This is currently white, but I am not in a rush to swap it as it is completely recessed into the hole in the stone and can barely be seen from any place except behind the bar.

I believe I still have 2 more single outlets and 1 2-gang box to still swap out... all will be brown.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I also finished the sconces last night, and the blend into the wall perfectly. I have dimmable LEDs on the way, and put in a dimmer to switch them so i can turn on mood lighting as needed. I will post a picture tonight or tomorrow. (unlit)
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post #2462 of 2565 Old 07-21-2014, 11:25 AM
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come on .... you can't have a read a book without pictures LOL!!!!!!
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post #2463 of 2565 Old 07-21-2014, 11:35 AM - Thread Starter
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come on .... you can't have a read a book without pictures LOL!!!!!!
Well I haven't actually done the work to fix it, but I will take pictures of how it doesn't work if you REALLY want. hehe. It's hard to hold up a glass shelf and snap a photo at the same time to explain. Maybe I will borrow one of my house guests and have them hold it up.
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post #2464 of 2565 Old 07-21-2014, 11:37 AM
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Well I haven't actually done the work to fix it, but I will take pictures of how it doesn't work if you REALLY want. hehe. It's hard to hold up a glass shelf and snap a photo at the same time to explain. Maybe I will borrow one of my house guests and have them hold it up.
LOL i could see there maybe a chance of disaster there
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post #2465 of 2565 Old 07-21-2014, 11:53 AM - Thread Starter
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OK Here is a quick overview of that book... hahaha

Here is a photo of the bar, and the wall where the shelves were going to go.



The red lines indicate where the studs are. These are quite accurate as far as location. You can even see the distance to the leftmost stud is slightly wider than the others.

The light blue lines indicated my original shelf pattern.

The top shelf fit and held, but it is not level, it has a slight tilt from the wall to the end. about 1/4" over the 8" depth. The brackets will fix that.

The middle shelf ran into problems when it intersected the large stone in the green box. Because that stone sticks out at least an inch further than the rest, the angle of the shelf was too great, and to put it on the wall would require the shelf to be extended outwards a long ways on the other side, which would look ugly, or to recess into the stone itself, which can't really be done.

The Yellow line is the "amended" shelf location, which will move it to offset to the next stud, but to do so required the shelf to be about 2.5" longer than it was before. This still might not work well because the two end brackets will literally be end brackets. We will see. This area is much more level though.

The bottom shelf had issues when it came to the center bracket, because it was slightly stuck out more than the end brackets. This would mean the shelf could fit snugly in the left or the right bracket, but not both. The deeper brackets by themselves will solve this problem if I don't make the shelf parallel to the wall, but if I use a piece of metal as a flat backing across the 3 studs also, this would also solve the problem. I'll the results as I work on them.
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post #2466 of 2565 Old 07-21-2014, 02:37 PM
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A picture really is worth a thousand words!
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post #2467 of 2565 Old 07-24-2014, 08:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jkasanic View Post
A picture really is worth a thousand words!
Heh, shhh! I can be long-winded sometimes, but it is always easier to explain with a photo. I'll try to do my best with getting some photos on Friday/Saturday when I try to finish up a lot of this. I'll try to get some close-ups of the wall, shelves, and outlet covers so you can see what I'm talking about.

My custom length glass shelf is ready and I will pick it up tomorrow. The new brackets should come today and I received the longer screws yesterday. I also have 2 different types of aluminum I got from home depot that I can use to level out a bracket in case it doesn't screw in close to flat to the wall. I'll post pictures of what I mean with that too.

I think in the end I may end up trimming down some covers and recessing the outlets into the wall. What I have right now works but it is uneven and does not hold up to scrutiny. I purchased an extra set of outlet plates to experiment on. Since they are nylon, I should be able to cut them evenly. (I saw a youtube video where they used a combination of a boxcutter and sharp scissors to make a smooth cut) The issue with trimming down a plate is that you don't know if it will align with the outlets until you've cut it and can fit it into the hole to line it up. I'll have to take a LOT of measurements to make sure I cut it correctly.

I also got my dimmers in so I have 2 different sets of A19 LEDs that are coming from earthLED that are supposedly compatible with these dimmers but we'll see.
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post #2468 of 2565 Old 07-26-2014, 07:07 AM - Thread Starter
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OK! Finally some more photos, though they are more iPhone photos as the camera was not available. :P

Here is one of the wall sconce lights installed


Here are the finished shelves! Everything went as planned. A few brackets needed little random pieces of things wedged under them to keep them level, but I worked it out.


Here is the example of the problem I was having with the outlet covers. From a short distance, they still look semi normal, and the color, although darker, works well.


But since the stone is not flat and the cutouts are not exactly square, there are usually gaps at the top. I will eventually try to trim all of the covers and recess the covers back into the stone. Here is a very close-up picture from the top down to get an idea of what I was talking about


And now I have an update distance shot where you can see the shelves behind the bar. The lights are also all on dimmers now, but since the iphone adjusts color funny, the lights all seem much brighter.
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post #2469 of 2565 Old 07-26-2014, 07:15 AM - Thread Starter
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From the other side (Ignore the ugly towel) you can see the lights in the wine rack (will be adding 2 more on the bottom) Look closely in the back corner behind the bar. You can barely see the recessed white outlet cover for the media inputs.



But if you are behind the bar, you can see it well. It is recessed back about 2 inches into the stone. It has HDMI/Cat6/USB so I can easily use a laptop or ipod to hook up to the TV in the rec room or speakers for music/music videos. I may change this to a 6-port keystone plate and add 2x RCA and a COAX as well. I will probably change that to brown when I do that too.

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post #2470 of 2565 Old 07-26-2014, 07:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damelon View Post
Here is the example of the problem I was having with the outlet covers. From a short distance, they still look semi normal, and the color, although darker, works well.
But since the stone is not flat and the cutouts are not exactly square, there are usually gaps at the top. I will eventually try to trim all of the covers and recess the covers back into the stone. Here is a very close-up picture from the top down to get an idea of what I was talking about

Could you fab a form and fill the gap in with mortar or use one sided stick foam, like weather stripping? I believe I have seen in light grey.


Or you could try using a Dremel tool and shave the stone down so that the cover lays flat on the wall


It all looks great though.

Creekside Stone Cinema
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post #2471 of 2565 Old 07-26-2014, 07:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Could you fab a form and fill the gap in with mortar or use one sided stick foam, like weather stripping? I believe I have seen in light grey.


Or you could try using a Dremel tool and shave the stone down so that the cover lays flat on the wall


It all looks great though.
I had thought originally that I would take some sort of plastic piece or weather stripping, get a small can of paint to match, paint it brown and put it on top on the back of each plate that has issues (Most of them) but while it would protect the wiring it might look kind of goofy under scrutiny. (Same as now) If I could cover it with mortar it would look much better but I'm not sure how well it would hold up since it is sand-based.

Ideally I would have had the plates on to begin with and have them stone around them, making the gaps bigger to fit the plates. The one recessed A/V plate is recessed in, but in that case they did cut the stone, and since the stone is veneer, it doesn't look great when it is cut. The rest of the openings use the natural edges of the stone. So I would prefer to not use Dremel on the stone to make it fit. I would instead prefer to cut the cover to fit. I saw a video on how to make a nice cut, I would just have to be precise with the measurements.
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post #2472 of 2565 Old 07-27-2014, 09:15 AM
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Awesome job! The bar looks amazing!!!

The Moving Pictures Theater Construction Thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1462881/th...ruction-thread

Houston GTG - Summer 2014
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/61-are...l#post26079610
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post #2473 of 2565 Old 07-27-2014, 03:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Awesome job! The bar looks amazing!!!
Thanks! I really like how it turned out. At least I'm finished with this year's project! I might mess with cutting some wall plates a bit this week and see how that works.
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post #2474 of 2565 Old 09-02-2014, 11:23 AM - Thread Starter
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I know I'm going to get a lot of people disagreeing with me on this one....

We had guests over this weekend so we decided to watch a "BIG" movie and packed the theater room full for Godzilla. Ok... I had not seen this before, but had been looking forward to it as a lot of people mentioned it could be an excellent demo disc. If you asked me to give a one word review of the movie, it would be "Loud". And it was. It was a must have for people who like to demo their subwoofers, that is for sure. As for the actual movie, it was bad. At least 4 people in the room fell asleep, and that was with the movie playing at reference level, and one of the most bass-filled movies I had ever seen. (Well beyond the "Pod Scene") I personally had to fight to stay awake. It was so painfully slow and boring. The acting was bad. The fight scenes were stupid. The plot was horrible. (Not that I expected there to be one) Godzilla himself looks like he could have possibly evolved from something but the other monster looked horrible. The original cheesy Godzilla movies were more entertaining by far and much more enjoyable. Sure, there are plenty of scenes to demo, but as far as rating a movie, even Battleship was a better film in my opinion. That says a lot.

Also, my HVAC Setup is not sufficient for a room full of people for 2+ hours. It gets stuffy. I definitely should have doubled up on the vents.

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post #2475 of 2565 Old 09-02-2014, 11:49 AM
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I saw it and did not hate it, but the story was predictable and not cerebral at all. I'm indifferent on that one. On one hand I think a giant T rex the size of a sky scraper breathing fire is kind of cool any way you slice it, but it makes no sense he's on the side of the humans. That's just odd.

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post #2476 of 2565 Old 09-02-2014, 01:36 PM
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err.. I am not going to disagree.

I didn't see the movie, but from what I understand it had some bass but nothing too low. Once you see the speclab for it you will know for sure. Also, what's good in the [commercial] theater does not always translate to a good home experience. Sometimes the audio is neutered on the blu-ray.

Reference level is pretty loud. I would say the majority of my guests (none of which were audiophiles) would be happy below reference. The solution is to make the subs a little bit hotter to get the effect out of them.

My HVAC was also not correct for a room full op people. I was able to counter that by cooling it to 66 before we started. I knew that (sized the CAC for 3 people) and roughed for a mini-split should I have found it to be an ongoing issue with lots of guests.

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post #2477 of 2565 Old 09-02-2014, 02:42 PM - Thread Starter
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err.. I am not going to disagree.

I didn't see the movie, but from what I understand it had some bass but nothing too low. Once you see the speclab for it you will know for sure. Also, what's good in the [commercial] theater does not always translate to a good home experience. Sometimes the audio is neutered on the blu-ray.

Reference level is pretty loud. I would say the majority of my guests (none of which were audiophiles) would be happy below reference. The solution is to make the subs a little bit hotter to get the effect out of them.

My HVAC was also not correct for a room full op people. I was able to counter that by cooling it to 66 before we started. I knew that (sized the CAC for 3 people) and roughed for a mini-split should I have found it to be an ongoing issue with lots of guests.

Tim
Tim, I agree, I play my movies the same way (Not quite reference volume but hot subs) and I mentioned reference level to get the point across that it was very loud in there. I do agree that things don't always translate well, but I haven't felt that way in my theater once. I get the same experience, in fact I like it more, at home, even on the BIG movies.

Yeah, I could pre-cool the room and that would work. It usually only matters in the summer.

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I saw it and did not hate it, but the story was predictable and not cerebral at all. I'm indifferent on that one. On one hand I think a giant T rex the size of a sky scraper breathing fire is kind of cool any way you slice it, but it makes no sense he's on the side of the humans. That's just odd.
I didn't hate it, but I didn't really like anything in it. I made the comparison to Battleship because it is the same sort of movie. Pacific Rim would be another, though I didn't want to use that as an example because it was much better reviewed than Battleship was. Battleship was very cliche' and cheesy, but it felt like a movie that actually had some emotion in it, unlike this one which fell flat on all levels. Yes, it does make no sense at all that he doesn't attack humans. They keep saying "Nature will find a way to balance itself" over and over again... which in this case happens instantly when a monster shows up, but when humans basically destroy everything in nature for centuries it doesn't really do anything? Please. Everything was silly here. hehe. But that's why I liked the originals more... because they were purposely silly. This was actually trying to be very serious the whole way through.

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post #2478 of 2565 Old 09-02-2014, 03:00 PM
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I do agree that things don't always translate well, but I haven't felt that way in my theater once. I get the same experience, in fact I like it more, at home, even on the BIG movies.
I was speaking strictly technically. They have remastered the audio for some blurays and applied a HPF. So where the LFE may have went to 5Hz in the theater you will only get to 20Hz from the bluray. After that, it drops off like a cliff.

I've been out of it for a while so can't remember which movies they did that to. I also recall that different versions of the disc had different audio (eg the extended cut 3-disc version v single disc).

Which is why I say until you see a speclab you won't know for sure if you are getting the true experience (which, of course, is only consequential to a handful of geeks like me).

The in home experience will always be spectacular.

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post #2479 of 2565 Old 09-02-2014, 03:39 PM - Thread Starter
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I was speaking strictly technically. They have remastered the audio for some blurays and applied a HPF. So where the LFE may have went to 5Hz in the theater you will only get to 20Hz from the bluray. After that, it drops off like a cliff.

I've been out of it for a while so can't remember which movies they did that to. I also recall that different versions of the disc had different audio (eg the extended cut 3-disc version v single disc).

Which is why I say until you see a speclab you won't know for sure if you are getting the true experience (which, of course, is only consequential to a handful of geeks like me).

The in home experience will always be spectacular.

Tim
Gotcha! I can't comment on the technicalities, however I will say that the audio was great, it was just the movie itself I didn't like.
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post #2480 of 2565 Old 09-03-2014, 07:35 AM
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Actually battleship was the better of those three movies IMO.

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post #2481 of 2565 Old 09-03-2014, 07:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Actually battleship was the better of those three movies IMO.
I probably agree with you. The general public liked them in order : Pacific Rim, Godzilla, Battleship. They were all major summer blockbuster "big fight scene" movies. I doubt I'd ever re-watch any of them though.
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post #2482 of 2565 Old 09-03-2014, 08:18 AM
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now I have to watch batttle ship agian I have not watched in in my theater thanks guys I should be putting my 1099s together not watching movies
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post #2483 of 2565 Old 09-03-2014, 08:21 AM - Thread Starter
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now I have to watch batttle ship agian I have not watched in in my theater thanks guys I should be putting my 1099s together not watching movies
Haha, sorry about that. It is a good film for Demo purposes. Razor Sharp picture clarity and reference quality audio. I love the intro for Oblivion too for demos.
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post #2484 of 2565 Old 09-03-2014, 08:23 AM
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post #2485 of 2565 Old 09-03-2014, 08:32 AM
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Battleship is an excellent movie to show off your system. The main problem the public had was the concept is very reaching, an alien race coming to earth and the only ship left to save the planet is an old WWII battleship because all the modern ones are locked behind a force field- and some screw ball kid of coarse is going to save the day and bang the hot girl. Classic Hollywood right there!

The plot is terrible, very unrealistic and totally exaggerated for the maximization of extreme entertainment over being true to any plausible reality. If you can't handle this, then it's a bad movie. If you can embrace it and just go with the flow, it's actually quite good. Your enjoyment of Battleship will be 100% dependent on your ability to handle and treat the story line. If you can let go and just watch for entertainment you will like it.

Godzilla and Pacific Rim are much the same way, although battleship is nicer looking filmed in Hawaii with better colors, contrast, sharp picture etc... The bass drop on the opening Universal trailer/credit where the globe spins sets the tone for surround and digital ecstasy right from the start. The sound and picture of that movie are quite good, the effects and the CGI are also well done. From a technical aspect it's a great movie for a demo or to watch on a nice system.

It's funny how the public will hate something like Battleship, but then full embrace something like Transformers - which is even crazier. They are basically the same movies, as is Godzilla and Pacific Rim. It's a certain genre of big time action movies you'll either like, or not. If you liked Transformers, you'd like Battleship IMO.

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post #2486 of 2565 Old 09-03-2014, 09:11 AM
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I don't know I knid of dig that kind of movie. I really do not care about the under lieing plot or love storie as long as S**T gets blown up and the action does not stop.
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post #2487 of 2565 Old 09-03-2014, 09:32 AM
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You'd like all three then.

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post #2488 of 2565 Old 09-11-2014, 07:56 AM - Thread Starter
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So I've had my theater now for three years (minus two months hehe), and everything has held up really well except for my chairs. Don't get me wrong, the actual "Chair" works great. All of the power recline motors still work and they are very comfortable. However the tray tables are the Achilles heal of these chairs. Half of the tray-tables have fallen apart. However they built them, it was terrible. Two primary pieces (The top and base) which are connected by double-sided tape. Really? I've tried to use stuff like Liquid nails, etc but they just keep falling apart. The tables are crap. Also, the little sockets for the tables have broken on two chairs. On one, the spring-loaded section has popped up beyond the lip, and the other has come off of the chair entirely. It can be screwed on, if you were able to actually get it pushed onto the thread, which has fallen about 1/2" into the chair. I can lift it up with a tool but can't keep it lifted to screw on the cap. As the chairs still work great otherwise, it is not a big deal, but everyone really loves the tables, and it is really convenient when you bring snacks/popcorn. If I had the room, I would have gone with chairs that have the double-armrest spaces between them, but I was limited. So if you are getting chairs with tables, keep in mind that this could happen to you too.

Also, I'm still on my original sony projector bulb. I'm surprised how well it has held up. I'm sure if I put a new one in that I would immediately notice a difference, but when I have watched the vast majority of movies, I haven't noticed any sort of degraded quality. It is hard to believe my VW95ES is 3 years old already. Crazy!
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post #2489 of 2565 Old 09-11-2014, 08:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damelon View Post
So I've had my theater now for three years (minus two months hehe), and everything has held up really well except for my chairs. Don't get me wrong, the actual "Chair" works great. All of the power recline motors still work and they are very comfortable. However the tray tables are the Achilles heal of these chairs. Half of the tray-tables have fallen apart. However they built them, it was terrible. Two primary pieces (The top and base) which are connected by double-sided tape. Really? I've tried to use stuff like Liquid nails, etc but they just keep falling apart. The tables are crap. Also, the little sockets for the tables have broken on two chairs. On one, the spring-loaded section has popped up beyond the lip, and the other has come off of the chair entirely. It can be screwed on, if you were able to actually get it pushed onto the thread, which has fallen about 1/2" into the chair. I can lift it up with a tool but can't keep it lifted to screw on the cap. As the chairs still work great otherwise, it is not a big deal, but everyone really loves the tables, and it is really convenient when you bring snacks/popcorn. If I had the room, I would have gone with chairs that have the double-armrest spaces between them, but I was limited. So if you are getting chairs with tables, keep in mind that this could happen to you too.

Also, I'm still on my original sony projector bulb. I'm surprised how well it has held up. I'm sure if I put a new one in that I would immediately notice a difference, but when I have watched the vast majority of movies, I haven't noticed any sort of degraded quality. It is hard to believe my VW95ES is 3 years old already. Crazy!

sounds like a case where upgrade itus maybe starting to creap up ..... may need to take some clariden
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post #2490 of 2565 Old 09-11-2014, 08:07 AM
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I hear yah bud, i remember watching yours from start to end and then did mine. The old saying is so true that "Time Flies"!

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