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Old 11-03-2014, 12:34 PM
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The top piece is shorter than the bottom yielding a lip the size you want.
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Old 11-03-2014, 12:37 PM
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this was my toy jigsaw before I got a pro quality BOSCH.

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Old 11-03-2014, 12:54 PM
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OK one more pic hot off the camera

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Old 11-03-2014, 01:29 PM
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So, is it then important to keep the device square with underside of the stage? Seems like if you don't, then it could actually be shorter than the 2"? Does that question make any sense?
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Old 11-03-2014, 01:37 PM
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of course. keep it perpendicular to the area of the stage you are working on. Don't stress out over some wandering and irregularities, once it is wrapped in carpet they disappear.
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Old 11-03-2014, 01:57 PM
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Big & Damelon,

pretty awesome explanation guys; thanks a lot once again!!

Regards, Chuck
Hold on tight to your dreams - ELO
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Old 11-05-2014, 08:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Big & Damelon,

pretty awesome explanation guys; thanks a lot once again!!
Anytime!

So I've had a few Private Message conversations this fall which asked about 2 topics more than once so I thought I would share them.

1) How do you like your carpet? Where did you get it?
As to the "where did I get it", it is Silver Lake Stainmaster carpet from Lowes. (This was updated a month or so ago on my front page) I do like the carpet, it is very comfortable to sit on, especially with the thick padding. It does have a couple of downsides though that people should be aware of. 1) It is not really pet friendly. There are a lot of loops which could easily get caught up on claws or paws. 2) Due to the multi-texture nature of the carpet, cleaning is a little more difficult because of the nooks in it. 3) It is a thick carpet, so you will have to keep that in mind when calculating your door stop. If I had to do it again, I'd use the flat surface thin carpet that people like BIG, Sandman, Snickers used on their theaters. The exact style Snickers has is the one I would have used. It is just easier in every way to plan and manage.

2) Were your treatments adequate? Do you like your acoustic plan?
Yes, very much. I have never officially completed measurements of my room, nor do I really even know what to look at. I can just say that it sounds great to my ears, there are no dead spots I have detected, the dialogue is clear, and the bass with my 2 Submersives is exactly how I want it. The 1" treatments on the side were a change from my original plan of 2" but it doesn't seem to be an issue. If there is any thing to change audio wise, it would be just to get nicer speakers! At least, in my opinion.

3) Did you notice any kind of light reflection with your gray carpet onto the screen?
None whatsoever. The carpet vanishes during a movie.

And I wanted to update my "What would you do differently next time" list:
1) I'd spend a lot more time planning and addressing cooling in the room. This is the only thing I don't like about my theater, it doesn't have adequate cooling for a full room of people.
2) I'd get flat, low profile, non-textured carpet. I liked the Masland St. Marks Square carpet (See Merrimont Trace)
3) I'd probably get different chairs. Don't know which... though the Fortress Lexington chairs look amazing (they just cost as much as my theater did)
4) I would have used a slightly taller Rack unit. Mine is almost full already, and upgrades or additions could start to max out the space. I could of course mount them on the wall next to the rack unit inside of the storage closed, but this one is minor.
5) I would have put my step lighting on each side of the step facing the center instead of the lights on the back side facing the screen.
6) If I did it again today, I would incorporate a lot of accept LED Lighting
7) I'd make the false wall open with hinges somehow to make access easier behind the screen

Last edited by damelon; 11-05-2014 at 10:52 AM.
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Old 11-05-2014, 09:52 AM
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Anytime!
2) I'd get flat uniform carpet. I liked the Masland St. Marks Square carpet (See Merrimont Trace)

5) I would have put my step lighting on each side of the step facing the center instead of the lights on the back side facing the screen.
When you say 'uniform', I initially thought you meant 'not patterned'... but looking at Merrimont Trace, clearly there is a pattern. By 'uniform', do you mean 'flat' & not loops, etc?

As for Step Lighting, do you mean mounted in the Walls, facing the center? Is this due to reflections?
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Old 11-05-2014, 09:57 AM - Thread Starter
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When you say 'uniform', I initially thought you meant 'not patterned'... but looking at Merrimont Trace, clearly there is a pattern. By 'uniform', do you mean 'flat' & not loops, etc?

As for Step Lighting, do you mean mounted in the Walls, facing the center? Is this due to reflections?
Yes, sorry, I was unclear. Unform "Height" of the carpet. The square pattern on my carpet has high squares and low squares. I mean a completely flat carpet, vs a textured carpet. My bad! The carpet Masland carpet is also a lot less thick, so it likely would have not exceeded the height of my door stop, thus requiring me to shave down my door a bit. I now have a really small gap between my stop and my door which sometimes lets some sound leak out. Also, a flat carpet would be a lot easier to keep clean. I updated the list above to be more clear.

I think you get what I was trying to stay. On the steps, it recesses down from my riser in my build so that there are three "walls" around the step. I would have rather put lights on the side walls of the step shining down on the step from each side instead of the one flat panel light in the center. When I initially built the theater, Big & I chose a sort of HVAC Register style light cover, which pointed the light down. The problem was that it was way too dim and didn't really provide any light on the step. I replaced that with a flat "Glazed Window" cover, which provided adequate light, but it points right at the screen, and you would be amazed at how little light it takes for the screen to catch it. It is sort of a direct facing beam. Even under-lip tape light would be a good choice or rope light along the base to see where the step is. The lighting choices so far weren't the best in that case. I never turn on my step lights currently.

Last edited by damelon; 11-05-2014 at 01:57 PM.
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Old 11-05-2014, 01:56 PM
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I was reading through your thread again. Brian did the treatment plan I believe. Did you post it?

Audio: Denon AVR-4520, Fusion 12 Tempest (LCR), Fusion 8 Alchemy (4xSurrounds+2xWides+2xHeights),4 x 15" Dayton Ultimax
Video: Sony VPL-HW40ES, Darbee Darblet, SMX 2.35:1 Screen
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Old 11-05-2014, 02:00 PM - Thread Starter
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I was reading through your thread again. Brian did the treatment plan I believe. Did you post it?
There is a link to it on the first post, but the image I posted was when it was a 2" side / 2" rear plan. It was later updated to a 1" side treatment and 4" rear treatment, though I don't believe the image was ever updated, we discussed that over email later.
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Old 11-05-2014, 02:22 PM
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There is a link to it on the first post, but the image I posted was when it was a 2" side / 2" rear plan. It was later updated to a 1" side treatment and 4" rear treatment, though I don't believe the image was ever updated, we discussed that over email later.
I'm at the stage of putting up treatments and then cloth. I'm going to be 1" on the sides with perhaps 4" on the door. I have some Kinetics Diffusion panels as well that I'll have on the back.

Your build, Mario's build and Snicker's build were very helpful. BIG was extremely helpful in PM's and I appreciate his assistance as well.

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Last edited by Jeff in Canada; 11-05-2014 at 03:34 PM.
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Old 12-04-2014, 05:34 PM - Thread Starter
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So now I am considering theater modification #2 . This is sort of a brainstorm which I have been having with snickers1/Rich (From Falcon screens) which would involve replacing my scope screen with a 16:9 screen (of the same or almost the same width). This would allow my widescreen movies to remain as they are, which IMO is the perfect width for the room size, and expand my 16:9 material to IMAX-style size. There are a few reasons for this. The first being that I can eliminate the need to use Lens memory. Yes, the majority of material is still widescreen, so I would require horizontal masking panels which would remain in most of the time. The second is because I want movies which are multi-formatted such as Interstellar, or The Dark Knight to be huge at all times, and not the smaller 16:9, they need to be epic. The final is that it will be closer to 4k Format which is coming down the road. Now as to that last point, that really isn't a driving factor in this decision, and I know that 4K Standard is 1.9:1 and UHDTV is 16:9 so there may be new screen formats down the road, but I'll bridge that when I get there.

What are the downsides to this? Well, there are a few. For one, The center of my image will be a shifted downwards a bit. We didn't use exact measurements when we put up my screen to begin with, we just did an eye test to what felt comfortable. With masking added, a scope film will end up being a few inches lower than it is now. It's not a big shift, but it may be noticable. There is cost, which isn't large to be sure, and I could also offset it by selling my current screen, as long as I could find a buyer. Then there is getting it mounted, which will present a challenge because I won't be able to hang it like a picture frame like most screens are mounted now. Since it would span almost the entire distance from my stage floor to my soffit bottom, it would need to somehow just push in and lock on the back. So we'd have to mount blocks or something. I'm sure I could grab BIG and figure it out if I decided to go through with this. I might also have to decrease the width of my screen by an inch or two based on the width of the frame. I only have 80" vertically to work with, and though the screen itself fits just fine, talking with Rich, a 130" wide frame from Falcon would be an inch over that. Seymour has a thinner frame that would fit with a spare inch, but it is a lower quality, and I couldn't use Falcon. So I may also DIY a screen frame using their material. We'll see.

Right now this is still just a concept but as always, I'd appreciate your ideas and opinions!
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Old 12-04-2014, 05:54 PM
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I've mounted a couple of screens with just a 1/2 inch between the frame and the soffit over the screen, just enough to lift it over the Z-clip. You don't notice the gap and you don't need a panel. we would just move your cross member up flush to the soffit overhead. If you can't spare that 1/2 inch we can figure something out.

You may need to put a booster riser under the base of the second row seating if the image is lower.

Your SMX screen is a collectors item, someone will adopt it.
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Old 12-04-2014, 06:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damelon View Post
So now I am considering theater modification #2 . This is sort of a brainstorm which I have been having with snickers1/Rich (From Falcon screens) which would involve replacing my scope screen with a 16:9 screen (of the same or almost the same width). This would allow my widescreen movies to remain as they are, which IMO is the perfect width for the room size, and expand my 16:9 material to IMAX-style size. There are a few reasons for this. The first being that I can eliminate the need to use Lens memory. Yes, the majority of material is still widescreen, so I would require horizontal masking panels which would remain in most of the time. The second is because I want movies which are multi-formatted such as Interstellar, or The Dark Knight to be huge at all times, and not the smaller 16:9, they need to be epic. The final is that it will be closer to 4k Format which is coming down the road. Now as to that last point, that really isn't a driving factor in this decision, and I know that 4K Standard is 1.9:1 and UHDTV is 16:9 so there may be new screen formats down the road, but I'll bridge that when I get there.

What are the downsides to this? Well, there are a few. For one, The center of my image will be a shifted downwards a bit. We didn't use exact measurements when we put up my screen to begin with, we just did an eye test to what felt comfortable. With masking added, a scope film will end up being a few inches lower than it is now. It's not a big shift, but it may be noticable. There is cost, which isn't large to be sure, and I could also offset it by selling my current screen, as long as I could find a buyer. Then there is getting it mounted, which will present a challenge because I won't be able to hang it like a picture frame like most screens are mounted now. Since it would span almost the entire distance from my stage floor to my soffit bottom, it would need to somehow just push in and lock on the back. So we'd have to mount blocks or something. I'm sure I could grab BIG and figure it out if I decided to go through with this. I might also have to decrease the width of my screen by an inch or two based on the width of the frame. I only have 80" vertically to work with, and though the screen itself fits just fine, talking with Rich, a 130" wide frame from Falcon would be an inch over that. Seymour has a thinner frame that would fit with a spare inch, but it is a lower quality, and I couldn't use Falcon. So I may also DIY a screen frame using their material. We'll see.

Right now this is still just a concept but as always, I'd appreciate your ideas and opinions!
I love how things come full circle. Widescreen then scope and now maybe a move back to widescreen. Lol. Awesome.

So you will be going soffit to stage with ur height? Nice!

I didn't realize 4k was a diff aspect ratio. More things to think about in the future. Like the new audio formats aren't enough.

I can't wait to see if you more forward with this. Should be really cool!

Jim
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Old 12-04-2014, 07:17 PM - Thread Starter
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BIG: Vertical space is going to be tight. Basically the space between the soffit and the stage is 80" high. The current frame is 137" wide, and the screen itself has a 130" wide image. A 130" wide 16:9 image has an image height just around 73" inches. Talked to Snickers1, and he stated that his 130" wide 16:9 frame is 80", so as-is that is exact and it probably would be hard to squeeze in, we'd have to figure out something different there and couldn't use the standard frame at that width. I've also heard good things about his new 4K Horizon material, so that's a plus there too. As for alternatives, SeymourAV's Premier frame is like 79.8" (Still probably too close bit technically would fit) and it supports horizontal masking panels. It is their pricey frame. Their precision frame is thicker depth wide but a lot thinner width wise, and that takes the total frame height down to 78.4", which would fit for sure. That frame though has the downside of not supporting masking panels. Seymour offers a "Zero Edge" option on their premier screens too, which would mean it would fit, but then it probably wouldn't support the masking panels again. Though if we did that I'm sure we could figure out how to build some that would magnetically attach to the area around the screen.

As for the riser, we would have some wiggle room. Normally I wouldn't want to touch the chair heights at all there since the projector is dropped as low as it is, but when I was testing, I had room to spare in that zoomed state, and the projector could be raised if I went to a fixed zoom. If you remember it did fit widescreen the first time we hung it, but then it wouldn't zoom back to 16:9 at that height so we had to lower it. Now we wouldn't use that zoom at all, so a shorter drop pipe would probably work. I wouldn't want to mess with the carpet, so we would probably have to build some sort of riser under the chairs themselves.

Once we figure it out, I will see what I can do to find an interested party in a good quality discount screen! The SMX is still in perfect condition and I still love it! I think it was the last one installed to an AVS member before they went under.

This isn't time-pressing at the moment, so I have plenty of time to discuss it with Rich and see if we can come up with something, or even DIY a frame. It doesn't need to be broken down again in the future, so the screen itself could always be permanently attached to the frame to make it work. Just want to make sure the edges have a good velvet black contrast border and that we can somehow mask the image to get true black for widescreen films, as I notice the contrast drop off significantly.

Jimim: I'm really excited about it, and yes, the plan is to go full floor to ceiling given the space provided. I already even got an enthusiastic thumbs up from the wifey!

Last edited by damelon; 12-05-2014 at 06:21 AM.
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Old 12-04-2014, 07:27 PM
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4k is 1.9:1??

Hey Damelon,
Just wondering where you saw this information? It just seems weird to me that they would introduce another totally new aspect ratio.
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Old 12-04-2014, 07:28 PM
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I miss typed in the email
It would be 137 x 80 total
Viewable image 130 x 73
Our frame is 3.5 wide.


We can talk more and kick around some ideas

Rich
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Old 12-04-2014, 08:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey Damelon,
Just wondering where you saw this information? It just seems weird to me that they would introduce another totally new aspect ratio.
No idea what aspect ratios will be on media. 4K industry standard is 4096 x 2160 and UHDHD is 3840 x 2160 so that it fits 16:9 formats. may only ever be real 4k for computer monitors. no idea really.
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Old 12-04-2014, 08:26 PM
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Hey Damelon,
Just wondering where you saw this information? It just seems weird to me that they would introduce another totally new aspect ratio.
I do know that the Sony 4K 600ES uses a chip that is not 16:9 native. 16:9 content doesn't use the full pixel width of the chip, 2.35 does.
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Old 12-05-2014, 06:19 AM - Thread Starter
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I miss typed in the email
It would be 137 x 80 total
Viewable image 130 x 73
Our frame is 3.5 wide.


We can talk more and kick around some ideas

Rich
Sounds good Rich, I'll update my earlier posts so I don't mis-represent your product
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Old 12-05-2014, 09:14 AM
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So now I am considering theater modification #2 . This is sort of a brainstorm which I have been having with snickers1/Rich (From Falcon screens) which would involve replacing my scope screen with a 16:9 screen (of the same or almost the same width). This would allow my widescreen movies to remain as they are, which IMO is the perfect width for the room size, and expand my 16:9 material to IMAX-style size. There are a few reasons for this. The first being that I can eliminate the need to use Lens memory. Yes, the majority of material is still widescreen, so I would require horizontal masking panels which would remain in most of the time. The second is because I want movies which are multi-formatted such as Interstellar, or The Dark Knight to be huge at all times, and not the smaller 16:9, they need to be epic. The final is that it will be closer to 4k Format which is coming down the road. Now as to that last point, that really isn't a driving factor in this decision, and I know that 4K Standard is 1.9:1 and UHDTV is 16:9 so there may be new screen formats down the road, but I'll bridge that when I get there.
That's the route I'm going.....best of both worlds!!!
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Old 12-05-2014, 09:40 AM - Thread Starter
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That's the route I'm going.....best of both worlds!!!
Agree. I just wasn't sure I could go the height route due to space, but it looks like I have the exact amount of space needed. Just have to do some minor tweaks to get it all to fit just right.
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Old 12-05-2014, 11:48 AM
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what about that second row for viewing?
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Old 12-05-2014, 11:51 AM - Thread Starter
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what about that second row for viewing?
That is what BIG was talking about, saying we may have to put in a riser booster for the back row. Since there will be more screen below the current screen to see, it may require a higher vantage from the second row.
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Old 12-05-2014, 12:04 PM
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If you only need up to three inches or so we can just raise the base of the chairs, more and it starts getting complicated, the booster could be wrapped with a carpet that comes close if not identical to the original. The advantage of just raising the seating is your headroom remains constant when walking on the riser. D you should check to see if you either have enough scraps to cover the visible parts or if Lowes still stocks that style.
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Old 12-05-2014, 12:39 PM - Thread Starter
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If you only need up to three inches or so we can just raise the base of the chairs, more and it starts getting complicated, the booster could be wrapped with a carpet that comes close if not identical to the original. The advantage of just raising the seating is your headroom remains constant when walking on the riser. D you should check to see if you either have enough scraps to cover the visible parts or if Lowes still stocks that style.
I pretty much was thinking exactly what you are saying. I do have scraps still, but may also be able to just use a black also since it goes under the black chairs. Depends how we do it, if we're building one huge box, frame, or just small blocks screwed under the feet. The chairs do have holes to bolt them down on the bottom.

As far as the screen, Rich was saying just taking it to a 129" wide screen would make the frame height 79.5". Still not probably going to be enough room to hang on the zbar but if the size is just right it doesn't need to hang, just needs to stay upright, which we could do a couple of ways on the back. Going to take off my screen wall tonight or this weekend and double check the measurements.

Last edited by damelon; 12-05-2014 at 12:46 PM.
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Old 12-05-2014, 01:08 PM
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you're right if it can just sit on the floor just need something to keep it from tipping over. maybe some magnets. My experience with frames though is hanging it had a slight stretching effect on the screen fabric setting it on the bottom let the top sag a tad. Anyway those issues can be worked out. You need to be sure there are no low points where the screen will sit. I could see the possibility of getting it assembled setting it in place and "oh $hit"

Last edited by BIGmouthinDC; 12-05-2014 at 02:34 PM.
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Old 12-05-2014, 01:26 PM - Thread Starter
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your right if it can just sit on the floor just need something to keep it from tipping over. maybe some magnets. My experience with fames though is hanging it had a slight stretching effect on the screen fabric setting it on the bottom let the top sag a tad. Anyway those issues can be worked out. You need to be sure there are no low points where the screen will sit. I could see the possibility of getting it assembled setting it in place and "oh $hit"
Now you are just making me paranoid.
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Old 12-05-2014, 01:48 PM
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That's the route I'm going.....best of both worlds!!!
Best of all worlds might be cw5billwade's 2:1 screen:

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My AT screen is a 2.0:1 format 126" wide 65" tall and the best of both worlds in my opinion. it is 24" from front wall and 10'6" form first row eyes. My wife will not sit in first row she says it is tooooo close. I like it up there but on some movies it is too big like the hand held jerky stuff. Gravity was a trip being that close in 3D it was as if you were right there.

Constant image area 2.0:1 so over all it is 126"x65" that gives me
126"x52" 2.40:1 with 136" diag, 6 1/2" bars top and bottom
126"x54" 2.35:1 with 137" diag, 5 1/2" bars top and bottom
120"x65" 1.85:1 with 137" diag, (man this size makes it like being there) 3" bars both sides
116"x65" 16x9 with 133" diag. 5" bars both sides
So in the way the best of both worlds If I would have done a 2.40:1 screen 126" wide my 16x9 size would have been 92"x52" with 106" diag. If I would have done 16X9 65" tall my 2.40:1 would have been 116"x48" 126" diag.
I love how well all aspect ratios work. It almost feels like a "no compromises" ratio.
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