The "Bacon Race" Theater / Patio / Bar Project - Page 91 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2701 of 2713 Old 03-14-2015, 12:43 PM
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post #2702 of 2713 Old 03-14-2015, 01:27 PM
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Awesome man!
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post #2703 of 2713 Old 03-19-2015, 01:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Black Lights for the Soffit:

So I posted some of this story in the Painted Star Ceilings thread... I originally had ordered some black lights from slimfluorescent.com. (A division of Savio Lighting) I called them and mentioned Jeff from Night Sky Murals and they said that they would give me a 15% discount, and told me what my total would be. The next week, I notice I still had no shipping information, and that my credit card was charged for the order... but the charge amount was for the full amount with no discount. I called again on the 11th and the guy on the phone told me the order was "shipping today" and that they made a mistake on the charge and would refund me the difference, but it would take 2-3 days to show up on my card. This monday I still had not received the lights, and still had not received the refunded discount so contacted them again. This time, the woman from customer service told me that UPS must have lost my shipment (I'm guessing that means they forgot to ever ship it) and that no one at their company would have ever given me a referral discount, let alone a 15% one. So, because of the shipping mess up she said she would send me a replacement. I said no thank you and asked for all of my money back, which I received. I'd say avoid this company!

On Wednesday I ordered some fluorescent fixtures from pegasus lighting and the blacklight tubes from blacklight.com. Both of which sent me order invoices and shipping notices almost immediately. Both orders will arrive tomorrow, and on top of that, the total cost was actually less than what I would have paid even with the discount from slimfluorescent. Win-Win!

----------------
Insteon

Also, last weekend I had some fun putting in some Insteon products in my home. I replaced 8 switches in my house with dual-band insteon switches, and then added door monitors to all of my external doors and garage doors. Due to cost, I replaced some 3-way switches with single insteon switches and just covered the second switch with a blank wall plate. This is a limitation of the Insteon products in general where both switches in a 3-way configuration have to be Insteon so they know each other's state. Other alternatives would be to use a remote panel, but those are also costly. Tying off the wires and putting a blank plate only cost me some time, and those switches didn't need their 3-way counterparts. In cases like stairs, you really have no choice and have to bite the bullet, but I don't really need those to be remote anyway. These switches end up covering all 4 poles I have in my house (2 breaker boxes, 2 poles per box) so that my house gets good coverage anywhere I put other products like door sensors. After some initial heartache, the setup was quite easy and now I am learning some basic notification programming. It's nice to get email alerts when doors remain open for a certain number of minutes, or reminders that my garage doors are open. I've read some reports about Insteon longevity issues, so we'll see how they last.

Last edited by damelon; 03-19-2015 at 01:22 PM.
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post #2704 of 2713 Old 03-24-2015, 07:22 PM
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Help: Soundproofing/Acoustic Treatment

Such an awesome build.

Sir, mind if you share the diagram showing the different layers of your sound proofing treatment?

I am currently building my own. I hope you'll allow me to copy some of your brilliant design.
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post #2705 of 2713 Old 03-24-2015, 07:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marlon1925 View Post
Such an awesome build.

Sir, mind if you share the diagram showing the different layers of your sound proofing treatment?

I am currently building my own. I hope you'll allow me to copy some of your brilliant design.
Thank you! As for allowing copies... well... we all pretty much copy from each other here, that is why we also post our builds. I took a lot from Sandman's theater. We read a lot from other people's work here and we pay it forward!

The sound proofing details are in the first post:
Initial Space : 23’6”L x 16’4”W x 8’9”H
Wall Construction : Room in a Room. Second wall with 1” gap.
Space after Secondary Wall : 22’8”L x 15’4”W x 8’9”H
Wall Decoupling Method : RISC-DC04 Clips
Ceiling Decoupling Method : Clip & Channel
Drywall Method : 2 Layers of 5/8” Drywall with Green Glue
Door : 28” Wide, 1 ¾” Thick solid core door.

In addition to those things, for the soundproofing we also filled the stage with sand, used double plywood with roofers felt in between to make a solid wood structure on both the stage and the riser, used pink insulation between all of the inner wall studs, and thicker pink insulation between the ceiling joists above the clip and channel. We ran soundproofing caulk along all of the drywall seams and doors, added "weather stripping" around the main door and the equipment door, and put putty behind the gang boxes that we cut holes in the walls with. The HVAC used flexible insulated ducting, which was "Snaked" so that it was not in a straight line and thus prevented sound from traveling through it easily. We also made custom vent hush boxes for the registers and the returns on the HVAC system, which were both placed in the soffit in the theater.

Unfortunately pictures and details of each of these things are spread out in the first 30 or so pages of the thread as it was being built. So you can step through the thread (Usually in the first 25 or so pages) and see how we did all of the things I listed above.

The sound "treatment" plan is posted here. Also read the text above the picture as we changed some numbers after I received that picture.
The "Bacon Race" Theater / Patio / Bar Project

If you have any questions more specifically about anything I just said, feel free to post and I'll do my best to help you out.
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post #2706 of 2713 Old 03-25-2015, 01:30 AM
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Placement of Screen

Thank you for the prompt reply sir.

By the way, what's the distance of the bottom of your screen from the floor?
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post #2707 of 2713 Old 03-25-2015, 01:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damelon View Post
Thank you! As for allowing copies... well... we all pretty much copy from each other here, that is why we also post our builds. I took a lot from Sandman's theater. We read a lot from other people's work here and we pay it forward!

The sound proofing details are in the first post:
Initial Space : 23’6”L x 16’4”W x 8’9”H
Wall Construction : Room in a Room. Second wall with 1” gap.
Space after Secondary Wall : 22’8”L x 15’4”W x 8’9”H
Wall Decoupling Method : RISC-DC04 Clips
Ceiling Decoupling Method : Clip & Channel
Drywall Method : 2 Layers of 5/8” Drywall with Green Glue
Door : 28” Wide, 1 ¾” Thick solid core door.

In addition to those things, for the soundproofing we also filled the stage with sand, used double plywood with roofers felt in between to make a solid wood structure on both the stage and the riser, used pink insulation between all of the inner wall studs, and thicker pink insulation between the ceiling joists above the clip and channel. We ran soundproofing caulk along all of the drywall seams and doors, added "weather stripping" around the main door and the equipment door, and put putty behind the gang boxes that we cut holes in the walls with. The HVAC used flexible insulated ducting, which was "Snaked" so that it was not in a straight line and thus prevented sound from traveling through it easily. We also made custom vent hush boxes for the registers and the returns on the HVAC system, which were both placed in the soffit in the theater.

Unfortunately pictures and details of each of these things are spread out in the first 30 or so pages of the thread as it was being built. So you can step through the thread (Usually in the first 25 or so pages) and see how we did all of the things I listed above.

The sound "treatment" plan is posted here. Also read the text above the picture as we changed some numbers after I received that picture.
The "Bacon Race" Theater / Patio / Bar Project

If you have any questions more specifically about anything I just said, feel free to post and I'll do my best to help you out.
How did you apply the insulation to the wall and ceiling sir? did you use some kind of glue or was it stapled?

On the stage sir, is it cement floor>stage filled with sand>1st layer plywood>felt>2nd layer of plywood?

and on Riser is it cement floor>riser filled with pink insulation>1st layer plywood>felt>2nd layer of plywood?

How thick is the plywood used sir?
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post #2708 of 2713 Old 03-25-2015, 05:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marlon1925 View Post
How did you apply the insulation to the wall and ceiling sir? did you use some kind of glue or was it stapled?

On the stage sir, is it cement floor>stage filled with sand>1st layer plywood>felt>2nd layer of plywood?

and on Riser is it cement floor>riser filled with pink insulation>1st layer plywood>felt>2nd layer of plywood?

How thick is the plywood used sir?
3/4" i would assume cause i have asked damelon a million questions about his stage and riser. lol
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post #2709 of 2713 Old 03-25-2015, 06:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marlon1925 View Post
By the way, what's the distance of the bottom of your screen from the floor?
Well currently my screen goes from the stage to the soffit. There is no gap. The first picture of the first post of my thread still shows my original screen (Look a few down to see the new screen) So the height of the screen is the height of the stage, which ends up being about 10.5 inches off the floor. That is the frame at least.... and the border of the frame is 3.5 inches thick or so.

I'll admit that my new 16:9 screen is nice in a lot of cases, but horizontal masking panels are so much more of a P.I.T.A. than vertical ones. I noticed that with my scope screen, I had to change panels rarely, and even so, they were easy and quick to put in. Now there are 4 panels, and I need to take them on and off a lot more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by marlon1925 View Post
How did you apply the insulation to the wall and ceiling sir? did you use some kind of glue or was it stapled?
Insulation just sort of friction fits between walls as it is made to be the standard width of standard stud spacing. Ceiling joists vary, but for me the joists were closer together than the insulation so it also friction fit and sort of bowed downward. Usually if you put up wall insulation and use paper facing you can use some staples along the studs through the paper for an even look.

Quote:
Originally Posted by marlon1925 View Post
On the stage sir, is it cement floor>stage filled with sand>1st layer plywood>felt>2nd layer of plywood?
Concrete -> Roofing Felt -> Stage (With plastic liner inside of the cavities) filled with sand -> 3/4" plywood -> Felt -> 3/4" Plywood.

Quote:
Originally Posted by marlon1925 View Post
and on Riser is it cement floor>riser filled with pink insulation>1st layer plywood>felt>2nd layer of plywood?
Cement Floor -> Felt -> Riser filled with thick pink insulation -> 3/4" Plywood -> Felt -> 3/4" Plywood

Keep in mind when doing stage and riser how you want the "lip" or overhang to be. Some people want to have an overhang, others a flush edge like a box. If you are going to put in accent lighting you will need a lip or trim so that the lighting can be hidden from direct view. There are also a variety of step options. Some recess steps into the riser, others put them outside. Adding them outside of the riser is a lot easier construction wise and also is more obvious to people as a step.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimim View Post
3/4" i would assume cause i have asked damelon a million questions about his stage and riser. lol
Correct! marlon as an FYI jimim just did this in his own build, so I think he has the stage building measurements memorized!

-----------------------

I can't stress to everyone enough the importance of HVAC when doing a well-insulated theater. Think about an insulated coat. It keeps you warm! If you have done the full soundproofing you will have very little to no fresh air other than your HVAC, and the projector, your rack equipment, and just human BTUs will heat up a theater quickly. I did one vent and one return but it wasn't enough.... at least, the way I did it. Make sure you get some good consultation when it comes to your HVAC setup! (I am not a good resource for this!)

Last edited by damelon; 03-25-2015 at 06:45 AM.
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post #2710 of 2713 Old 03-25-2015, 06:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damelon View Post
Well currently my screen goes from the stage to the soffit. There is no gap. The first picture of the first post of my thread still shows my original screen (Look a few down to see the new screen) So the height of the screen is the height of the stage, which ends up being about 10.5 inches off the floor. That is the frame at least.... and the border of the frame is 3.5 inches thick or so.

I'll admit that my new 16:9 screen is nice in a lot of cases, but horizontal masking panels are so much more of a P.I.T.A. than vertical ones. I noticed that with my scope screen, I had to change panels rarely, and even so, they were easy and quick to put in. Now there are 4 panels, and I need to take them on and off a lot more.



Insulation just sort of friction fits between walls as it is made to be the standard width of standard stud spacing. Ceiling joists vary, but for me the joists were closer together than the insulation so it also friction fit and sort of bowed downward. Usually if you put up wall insulation and use paper facing you can use some staples along the studs through the paper for an even look.



Concrete -> Roofing Felt -> Stage (With plastic liner inside of the cavities) filled with sand -> 3/4" plywood -> Felt -> 3/4" Plywood.



Cement Floor -> Felt -> Riser filled with thick pink insulation -> 3/4" Plywood -> Felt -> 3/4" Plywood

Keep in mind when doing stage and riser how you want the "lip" or overhang to be. Some people want to have an overhang, others a flush edge like a box. If you are going to put in accent lighting you will need a lip or trim so that the lighting can be hidden from direct view. There are also a variety of step options. Some recess steps into the riser, others put them outside. Adding them outside of the riser is a lot easier construction wise and also is more obvious to people as a step.



Correct! marlon as an FYI jimim just did this in his own build, so I think he has the stage building measurements memorized!

-----------------------

I can't stress to everyone enough the importance of HVAC when doing a well-insulated theater. Think about an insulated coat. It keeps you warm! If you have done the full soundproofing you will have very little to no fresh air other than your HVAC, and the projector, your rack equipment, and just human BTUs will heat up a theater quickly. I did one vent and one return but it wasn't enough.... at least, the way I did it. Make sure you get some good consultation when it comes to your HVAC setup! (I am not a good resource for this!)

Wow!

Thank you very much sir. This is very helpful.
My contractor just finished pouring concrete for the flooring. I'm so excited to apply all of this. I just wish I could get the materials or at least alternate in the local suppliers.

By the way sir, you mentioned about spacing of the studs? Uhmmmmm...sorry for this question but I have to ask this. What's the spacing really?

You used green glue to stick the felt to the floor and onto the 1st layer of plywood? And the plywood to the felt? Am I correct sir?

And uhmmmmm Jimim? Care to share dimensions of the stage and riser?


I think my problem with be with my AC

I'm not sure if a split type unit will do the job.

One more thing, I couldn't find any local supplier for the clips and hat channel. Hmm..I'm thinking of just fabricating it in the local machine shop

Last edited by marlon1925; 03-25-2015 at 06:59 AM.
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post #2711 of 2713 Old 03-25-2015, 07:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marlon1925 View Post
Wow!

Thank you very much sir. This is very helpful.
My contractor just finished pouring concrete for the flooring. I'm so excited to apply all of this. I just wish I could get the materials or at least alternate in the local suppliers.

By the way sir, you mentioned about spacing of the studs? Uhmmmmm...sorry for this question but I have to ask this. What's the spacing really?

And uhmmmmm Jimim? Care to share dimensions of the stage and riser?


I think my problem with be with my AC

I'm not sure if a split type unit will do the job.
Wall stud spacing is 16" on center almost everywhere.

Actually a mini-split would probably work very well, since it is dedicated to your theater. The one I have in my theater is not a dedicated unit, but shared with the sun room in my home, so I do lose some of the "pressure"... plus it doesn't help that my theater room is the furthest from the HVAC. Your mini-split should be just fine.

I did a recap for the stage recently here
The "Bacon Race" Theater / Patio / Bar Project

And you can go to jimim's build thread to see how he did it : He can still take pictures and measure to a much greater detail as his stage is still bare!

Jimim's Thread -> Take 2! Build
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post #2712 of 2713 Old 03-25-2015, 08:56 AM
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Correct! marlon as an FYI jimim just did this in his own build, so I think he has the stage building measurements memorized!


lol yo totally memorized! i see those numbers in my sleep! but hey it looks perfect! thanks again for all that!

@marlon . . . check out my build for the pics with the measurements shown on the tape even. figured maybe i will save someone from a million questions like i had.
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post #2713 of 2713 Old 03-25-2015, 03:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimim View Post
Correct! marlon as an FYI jimim just did this in his own build, so I think he has the stage building measurements memorized!


lol yo totally memorized! i see those numbers in my sleep! but hey it looks perfect! thanks again for all that!

@marlon . . . check out my build for the pics with the measurements shown on the tape even. figured maybe i will save someone from a million questions like i had.
Thanks Jimim
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