The "Bacon Race" Theater / Patio / Bar Project - Page 91 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2701 of 2757 Old 03-14-2015, 12:43 PM
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post #2702 of 2757 Old 03-14-2015, 01:27 PM
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Awesome man!
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post #2703 of 2757 Old 03-19-2015, 01:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Black Lights for the Soffit:

So I posted some of this story in the Painted Star Ceilings thread... I originally had ordered some black lights from slimfluorescent.com. (A division of Savio Lighting) I called them and mentioned Jeff from Night Sky Murals and they said that they would give me a 15% discount, and told me what my total would be. The next week, I notice I still had no shipping information, and that my credit card was charged for the order... but the charge amount was for the full amount with no discount. I called again on the 11th and the guy on the phone told me the order was "shipping today" and that they made a mistake on the charge and would refund me the difference, but it would take 2-3 days to show up on my card. This monday I still had not received the lights, and still had not received the refunded discount so contacted them again. This time, the woman from customer service told me that UPS must have lost my shipment (I'm guessing that means they forgot to ever ship it) and that no one at their company would have ever given me a referral discount, let alone a 15% one. So, because of the shipping mess up she said she would send me a replacement. I said no thank you and asked for all of my money back, which I received. I'd say avoid this company!

On Wednesday I ordered some fluorescent fixtures from pegasus lighting and the blacklight tubes from blacklight.com. Both of which sent me order invoices and shipping notices almost immediately. Both orders will arrive tomorrow, and on top of that, the total cost was actually less than what I would have paid even with the discount from slimfluorescent. Win-Win!

----------------
Insteon

Also, last weekend I had some fun putting in some Insteon products in my home. I replaced 8 switches in my house with dual-band insteon switches, and then added door monitors to all of my external doors and garage doors. Due to cost, I replaced some 3-way switches with single insteon switches and just covered the second switch with a blank wall plate. This is a limitation of the Insteon products in general where both switches in a 3-way configuration have to be Insteon so they know each other's state. Other alternatives would be to use a remote panel, but those are also costly. Tying off the wires and putting a blank plate only cost me some time, and those switches didn't need their 3-way counterparts. In cases like stairs, you really have no choice and have to bite the bullet, but I don't really need those to be remote anyway. These switches end up covering all 4 poles I have in my house (2 breaker boxes, 2 poles per box) so that my house gets good coverage anywhere I put other products like door sensors. After some initial heartache, the setup was quite easy and now I am learning some basic notification programming. It's nice to get email alerts when doors remain open for a certain number of minutes, or reminders that my garage doors are open. I've read some reports about Insteon longevity issues, so we'll see how they last.

Last edited by damelon; 03-19-2015 at 01:22 PM.
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post #2704 of 2757 Old 03-24-2015, 07:22 PM
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Help: Soundproofing/Acoustic Treatment

Such an awesome build.

Sir, mind if you share the diagram showing the different layers of your sound proofing treatment?

I am currently building my own. I hope you'll allow me to copy some of your brilliant design.
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post #2705 of 2757 Old 03-24-2015, 07:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marlon1925 View Post
Such an awesome build.

Sir, mind if you share the diagram showing the different layers of your sound proofing treatment?

I am currently building my own. I hope you'll allow me to copy some of your brilliant design.
Thank you! As for allowing copies... well... we all pretty much copy from each other here, that is why we also post our builds. I took a lot from Sandman's theater. We read a lot from other people's work here and we pay it forward!

The sound proofing details are in the first post:
Initial Space : 23’6”L x 16’4”W x 8’9”H
Wall Construction : Room in a Room. Second wall with 1” gap.
Space after Secondary Wall : 22’8”L x 15’4”W x 8’9”H
Wall Decoupling Method : RISC-DC04 Clips
Ceiling Decoupling Method : Clip & Channel
Drywall Method : 2 Layers of 5/8” Drywall with Green Glue
Door : 28” Wide, 1 ¾” Thick solid core door.

In addition to those things, for the soundproofing we also filled the stage with sand, used double plywood with roofers felt in between to make a solid wood structure on both the stage and the riser, used pink insulation between all of the inner wall studs, and thicker pink insulation between the ceiling joists above the clip and channel. We ran soundproofing caulk along all of the drywall seams and doors, added "weather stripping" around the main door and the equipment door, and put putty behind the gang boxes that we cut holes in the walls with. The HVAC used flexible insulated ducting, which was "Snaked" so that it was not in a straight line and thus prevented sound from traveling through it easily. We also made custom vent hush boxes for the registers and the returns on the HVAC system, which were both placed in the soffit in the theater.

Unfortunately pictures and details of each of these things are spread out in the first 30 or so pages of the thread as it was being built. So you can step through the thread (Usually in the first 25 or so pages) and see how we did all of the things I listed above.

The sound "treatment" plan is posted here. Also read the text above the picture as we changed some numbers after I received that picture.
The "Bacon Race" Theater / Patio / Bar Project

If you have any questions more specifically about anything I just said, feel free to post and I'll do my best to help you out.
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post #2706 of 2757 Old 03-25-2015, 01:30 AM
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Placement of Screen

Thank you for the prompt reply sir.

By the way, what's the distance of the bottom of your screen from the floor?
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post #2707 of 2757 Old 03-25-2015, 01:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damelon View Post
Thank you! As for allowing copies... well... we all pretty much copy from each other here, that is why we also post our builds. I took a lot from Sandman's theater. We read a lot from other people's work here and we pay it forward!

The sound proofing details are in the first post:
Initial Space : 23’6”L x 16’4”W x 8’9”H
Wall Construction : Room in a Room. Second wall with 1” gap.
Space after Secondary Wall : 22’8”L x 15’4”W x 8’9”H
Wall Decoupling Method : RISC-DC04 Clips
Ceiling Decoupling Method : Clip & Channel
Drywall Method : 2 Layers of 5/8” Drywall with Green Glue
Door : 28” Wide, 1 ¾” Thick solid core door.

In addition to those things, for the soundproofing we also filled the stage with sand, used double plywood with roofers felt in between to make a solid wood structure on both the stage and the riser, used pink insulation between all of the inner wall studs, and thicker pink insulation between the ceiling joists above the clip and channel. We ran soundproofing caulk along all of the drywall seams and doors, added "weather stripping" around the main door and the equipment door, and put putty behind the gang boxes that we cut holes in the walls with. The HVAC used flexible insulated ducting, which was "Snaked" so that it was not in a straight line and thus prevented sound from traveling through it easily. We also made custom vent hush boxes for the registers and the returns on the HVAC system, which were both placed in the soffit in the theater.

Unfortunately pictures and details of each of these things are spread out in the first 30 or so pages of the thread as it was being built. So you can step through the thread (Usually in the first 25 or so pages) and see how we did all of the things I listed above.

The sound "treatment" plan is posted here. Also read the text above the picture as we changed some numbers after I received that picture.
The "Bacon Race" Theater / Patio / Bar Project

If you have any questions more specifically about anything I just said, feel free to post and I'll do my best to help you out.
How did you apply the insulation to the wall and ceiling sir? did you use some kind of glue or was it stapled?

On the stage sir, is it cement floor>stage filled with sand>1st layer plywood>felt>2nd layer of plywood?

and on Riser is it cement floor>riser filled with pink insulation>1st layer plywood>felt>2nd layer of plywood?

How thick is the plywood used sir?
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post #2708 of 2757 Old 03-25-2015, 05:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marlon1925 View Post
How did you apply the insulation to the wall and ceiling sir? did you use some kind of glue or was it stapled?

On the stage sir, is it cement floor>stage filled with sand>1st layer plywood>felt>2nd layer of plywood?

and on Riser is it cement floor>riser filled with pink insulation>1st layer plywood>felt>2nd layer of plywood?

How thick is the plywood used sir?
3/4" i would assume cause i have asked damelon a million questions about his stage and riser. lol
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post #2709 of 2757 Old 03-25-2015, 06:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marlon1925 View Post
By the way, what's the distance of the bottom of your screen from the floor?
Well currently my screen goes from the stage to the soffit. There is no gap. The first picture of the first post of my thread still shows my original screen (Look a few down to see the new screen) So the height of the screen is the height of the stage, which ends up being about 10.5 inches off the floor. That is the frame at least.... and the border of the frame is 3.5 inches thick or so.

I'll admit that my new 16:9 screen is nice in a lot of cases, but horizontal masking panels are so much more of a P.I.T.A. than vertical ones. I noticed that with my scope screen, I had to change panels rarely, and even so, they were easy and quick to put in. Now there are 4 panels, and I need to take them on and off a lot more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by marlon1925 View Post
How did you apply the insulation to the wall and ceiling sir? did you use some kind of glue or was it stapled?
Insulation just sort of friction fits between walls as it is made to be the standard width of standard stud spacing. Ceiling joists vary, but for me the joists were closer together than the insulation so it also friction fit and sort of bowed downward. Usually if you put up wall insulation and use paper facing you can use some staples along the studs through the paper for an even look.

Quote:
Originally Posted by marlon1925 View Post
On the stage sir, is it cement floor>stage filled with sand>1st layer plywood>felt>2nd layer of plywood?
Concrete -> Roofing Felt -> Stage (With plastic liner inside of the cavities) filled with sand -> 3/4" plywood -> Felt -> 3/4" Plywood.

Quote:
Originally Posted by marlon1925 View Post
and on Riser is it cement floor>riser filled with pink insulation>1st layer plywood>felt>2nd layer of plywood?
Cement Floor -> Felt -> Riser filled with thick pink insulation -> 3/4" Plywood -> Felt -> 3/4" Plywood

Keep in mind when doing stage and riser how you want the "lip" or overhang to be. Some people want to have an overhang, others a flush edge like a box. If you are going to put in accent lighting you will need a lip or trim so that the lighting can be hidden from direct view. There are also a variety of step options. Some recess steps into the riser, others put them outside. Adding them outside of the riser is a lot easier construction wise and also is more obvious to people as a step.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimim View Post
3/4" i would assume cause i have asked damelon a million questions about his stage and riser. lol
Correct! marlon as an FYI jimim just did this in his own build, so I think he has the stage building measurements memorized!

-----------------------

I can't stress to everyone enough the importance of HVAC when doing a well-insulated theater. Think about an insulated coat. It keeps you warm! If you have done the full soundproofing you will have very little to no fresh air other than your HVAC, and the projector, your rack equipment, and just human BTUs will heat up a theater quickly. I did one vent and one return but it wasn't enough.... at least, the way I did it. Make sure you get some good consultation when it comes to your HVAC setup! (I am not a good resource for this!)

Last edited by damelon; 03-25-2015 at 06:45 AM.
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post #2710 of 2757 Old 03-25-2015, 06:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damelon View Post
Well currently my screen goes from the stage to the soffit. There is no gap. The first picture of the first post of my thread still shows my original screen (Look a few down to see the new screen) So the height of the screen is the height of the stage, which ends up being about 10.5 inches off the floor. That is the frame at least.... and the border of the frame is 3.5 inches thick or so.

I'll admit that my new 16:9 screen is nice in a lot of cases, but horizontal masking panels are so much more of a P.I.T.A. than vertical ones. I noticed that with my scope screen, I had to change panels rarely, and even so, they were easy and quick to put in. Now there are 4 panels, and I need to take them on and off a lot more.



Insulation just sort of friction fits between walls as it is made to be the standard width of standard stud spacing. Ceiling joists vary, but for me the joists were closer together than the insulation so it also friction fit and sort of bowed downward. Usually if you put up wall insulation and use paper facing you can use some staples along the studs through the paper for an even look.



Concrete -> Roofing Felt -> Stage (With plastic liner inside of the cavities) filled with sand -> 3/4" plywood -> Felt -> 3/4" Plywood.



Cement Floor -> Felt -> Riser filled with thick pink insulation -> 3/4" Plywood -> Felt -> 3/4" Plywood

Keep in mind when doing stage and riser how you want the "lip" or overhang to be. Some people want to have an overhang, others a flush edge like a box. If you are going to put in accent lighting you will need a lip or trim so that the lighting can be hidden from direct view. There are also a variety of step options. Some recess steps into the riser, others put them outside. Adding them outside of the riser is a lot easier construction wise and also is more obvious to people as a step.



Correct! marlon as an FYI jimim just did this in his own build, so I think he has the stage building measurements memorized!

-----------------------

I can't stress to everyone enough the importance of HVAC when doing a well-insulated theater. Think about an insulated coat. It keeps you warm! If you have done the full soundproofing you will have very little to no fresh air other than your HVAC, and the projector, your rack equipment, and just human BTUs will heat up a theater quickly. I did one vent and one return but it wasn't enough.... at least, the way I did it. Make sure you get some good consultation when it comes to your HVAC setup! (I am not a good resource for this!)

Wow!

Thank you very much sir. This is very helpful.
My contractor just finished pouring concrete for the flooring. I'm so excited to apply all of this. I just wish I could get the materials or at least alternate in the local suppliers.

By the way sir, you mentioned about spacing of the studs? Uhmmmmm...sorry for this question but I have to ask this. What's the spacing really?

You used green glue to stick the felt to the floor and onto the 1st layer of plywood? And the plywood to the felt? Am I correct sir?

And uhmmmmm Jimim? Care to share dimensions of the stage and riser?


I think my problem with be with my AC

I'm not sure if a split type unit will do the job.

One more thing, I couldn't find any local supplier for the clips and hat channel. Hmm..I'm thinking of just fabricating it in the local machine shop

Last edited by marlon1925; 03-25-2015 at 06:59 AM.
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post #2711 of 2757 Old 03-25-2015, 07:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marlon1925 View Post
Wow!

Thank you very much sir. This is very helpful.
My contractor just finished pouring concrete for the flooring. I'm so excited to apply all of this. I just wish I could get the materials or at least alternate in the local suppliers.

By the way sir, you mentioned about spacing of the studs? Uhmmmmm...sorry for this question but I have to ask this. What's the spacing really?

And uhmmmmm Jimim? Care to share dimensions of the stage and riser?


I think my problem with be with my AC

I'm not sure if a split type unit will do the job.
Wall stud spacing is 16" on center almost everywhere.

Actually a mini-split would probably work very well, since it is dedicated to your theater. The one I have in my theater is not a dedicated unit, but shared with the sun room in my home, so I do lose some of the "pressure"... plus it doesn't help that my theater room is the furthest from the HVAC. Your mini-split should be just fine.

I did a recap for the stage recently here
The "Bacon Race" Theater / Patio / Bar Project

And you can go to jimim's build thread to see how he did it : He can still take pictures and measure to a much greater detail as his stage is still bare!

Jimim's Thread -> Take 2! Build
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post #2712 of 2757 Old 03-25-2015, 08:56 AM
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Correct! marlon as an FYI jimim just did this in his own build, so I think he has the stage building measurements memorized!


lol yo totally memorized! i see those numbers in my sleep! but hey it looks perfect! thanks again for all that!

@marlon . . . check out my build for the pics with the measurements shown on the tape even. figured maybe i will save someone from a million questions like i had.
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post #2713 of 2757 Old 03-25-2015, 03:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimim View Post
Correct! marlon as an FYI jimim just did this in his own build, so I think he has the stage building measurements memorized!


lol yo totally memorized! i see those numbers in my sleep! but hey it looks perfect! thanks again for all that!

@marlon . . . check out my build for the pics with the measurements shown on the tape even. figured maybe i will save someone from a million questions like i had.
Thanks Jimim
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post #2714 of 2757 Old 05-08-2015, 04:09 AM
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Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post
Some pictures of the day. Didn't get everything done that we hoped, but we always set our goals high.

The first order of the day was to measure, mark and cut the 15 holes for the 3 inch recessed lights in the light tray.



Then Damelon wired them up while I filled all the nail holes in the columns and sanded getting ready for finishing.

These shots are just with the perimeter light tray lights. check out the bass traps Damelon cut and stacked.





I talked him into popping in the step lights.

Hey Damelon,

Quick question for you: how deep is your soffit, including light tray, from edge of light tray to wall panel? I'm thinking about doing exactly what you and Big did, but I want to make sure I'm not making my soffits way too deep. Right now, they measure 25" deep from edge of soffit to drywall, but after wall panels, it'll be more like 18" from edge of soffit to wall panels. If I add a light tray , i may be back up to the 20"+ depth range.

Thanks in advance! I know you're enoying your new IMAX experience, enhanced by the starry sky above!
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post #2715 of 2757 Old 05-08-2015, 06:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BrolicBeast View Post
Hey Damelon,

Quick question for you: how deep is your soffit, including light tray, from edge of light tray to wall panel? I'm thinking about doing exactly what you and Big did, but I want to make sure I'm not making my soffits way too deep. Right now, they measure 25" deep from edge of soffit to drywall, but after wall panels, it'll be more like 18" from edge of soffit to wall panels. If I add a light tray , i may be back up to the 20"+ depth range.

Thanks in advance! I know you're enoying your new IMAX experience, enhanced by the starry sky above!
The soffit itself (without the light tray) is 16" wide by 10" tall.

The light tray gets a little more complicated. The bottom is 5.5" piece of MDF with 1/2" think MDF attached to the end that is 6" high. The total width at the bottom is 6" but the bottom also overlapped the edge of the soffit so it could be nailed into the bottom by about 1/2". So the interior "cavity" is 4 3/4 - 5" deep, since you deduct the 1/2" wide piece on the end and then the 1/2 - 3/4" overlap. This gave enough space for the little can lights, and now I use LED lights there, which makes me feel a bit better since they don't heat up like the original bulbs did! If you do decide to do a light tray BB (And you don't need to due to sconces) then remember to either not put on the inside face side of the light tray until you wire the lights or to allow the inside edge flip down somehow like a glove compartment. Doing any work up in the light tray after it was done is not pleasant since it is right up against the ceiling.

The new screen is awesome, especially for sports, the HTPC itself, and movies like Interstellar, but it is a royal pain in the ass for scope movies since I am constantly taking down and putting up panels. The horizontal panels can be tricky because of how they fit and if you don't do them just right then they will leave wrinkles in the screen material. (Extra felt on the back would help this) So a couple of times, I've had to take a hair dryer to warm it to get it back to normal. Plus now there is 4 panels to have sitting around against the wall. Don't get me wrong, I like the screen more than my old screen.... but the panels are a big hassle. If it didn't cost so much I would want motorized masking, it is just a ripoff.

As for the stars, they are beautiful, but I haven't done a whole lot of star viewing with the lights out since the first couple of weeks. I do use the black lights in the soffit often though, since it does showcase the stars and gives a low level light to the room to help people get out of their seats and see without a big dark to light type of feel in the room.

Last edited by damelon; 05-08-2015 at 06:46 AM.
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post #2716 of 2757 Old 05-08-2015, 07:09 AM
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Damelon -

Just trying to get caught up again. Nice job!

Quote:
This is a limitation of the Insteon products in general where both switches in a 3-way configuration have to be Insteon so they know each other's state.
Actually, I find it to be a feature as you can turn any two switches (as long as they a neutral in the box) into three, four or TEN-way switches if you want to, without the need for 3/1 or 4/1 wiring between them.

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post #2717 of 2757 Old 05-08-2015, 07:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by tlogan6797 View Post
Damelon -

Just trying to get caught up again. Nice job!



Actually, I find it to be a feature as you can turn any two switches (as long as they a neutral in the box) into three, four or TEN-way switches if you want to, without the need for 3/1 or 4/1 wiring between them.
Nice to see you again!

No doubt you are right about multi-way switches, I was talking about it is a "cost" limitation. You can usually buy switches for almost nothing, where as an insteon switch would cost quite a bit. When you start talking multi-way then it becomes frustrating since you get the remote capability with just one but you have to continue to pay the full price for additional switches. The additional switches just end up being remotes for the primary one.

In any case I ended up using just one for the 3 two-way switches I replaced and then terminated/covered the old second box. In these cases, the two way switches didn't really matter as much. I will end up buying two control panels though, since I made all of my outdoor lighting insteon using the outdoor plugin part. The problem is there is currently no way to turn them on now other than through the phone app. So a single remote panel by my basement door where I removed one of the two way switches would be perfect.
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post #2718 of 2757 Old 05-08-2015, 07:48 AM
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OK, when you look at it from that cost perspective, yeah. Especially since we seem to be the DIY types around here.

If you're PAYING an electrician and have to run new 3/1, I think you come out WAY ahead.

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post #2719 of 2757 Old 05-08-2015, 09:36 AM - Thread Starter
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OK, when you look at it from that cost perspective, yeah. Especially since we seem to be the DIY types around here.

If you're PAYING an electrician and have to run new 3/1, I think you come out WAY ahead.
For sure!
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post #2720 of 2757 Old 05-08-2015, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by damelon View Post
The soffit itself (without the light tray) is 16" wide by 10" tall.

The light tray gets a little more complicated. The bottom is 5.5" piece of MDF with 1/2" think MDF attached to the end that is 6" high. The total width at the bottom is 6" but the bottom also overlapped the edge of the soffit so it could be nailed into the bottom by about 1/2". So the interior "cavity" is 4 3/4 - 5" deep, since you deduct the 1/2" wide piece on the end and then the 1/2 - 3/4" overlap. This gave enough space for the little can lights, and now I use LED lights there, which makes me feel a bit better since they don't heat up like the original bulbs did! If you do decide to do a light tray BB (And you don't need to due to sconces) then remember to either not put on the inside face side of the light tray until you wire the lights or to allow the inside edge flip down somehow like a glove compartment. Doing any work up in the light tray after it was done is not pleasant since it is right up against the ceiling.

The new screen is awesome, especially for sports, the HTPC itself, and movies like Interstellar, but it is a royal pain in the ass for scope movies since I am constantly taking down and putting up panels. The horizontal panels can be tricky because of how they fit and if you don't do them just right then they will leave wrinkles in the screen material. (Extra felt on the back would help this) So a couple of times, I've had to take a hair dryer to warm it to get it back to normal. Plus now there is 4 panels to have sitting around against the wall. Don't get me wrong, I like the screen more than my old screen.... but the panels are a big hassle. If it didn't cost so much I would want motorized masking, it is just a ripoff.

As for the stars, they are beautiful, but I haven't done a whole lot of star viewing with the lights out since the first couple of weeks. I do use the black lights in the soffit often though, since it does showcase the stars and gives a low level light to the room to help people get out of their seats and see without a big dark to light type of feel in the room.
Thanks for the info on the soffit! Man, that sucks on the screen....I have three same screen (just not yet assembled) and I'm worried about the masking panels now. Maybe I should not use them. Have you tried watching a movie without the panels? Are the unmasked sections extremely distracting?
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post #2721 of 2757 Old 05-08-2015, 01:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the info on the soffit! Man, that sucks on the screen....I have three same screen (just not yet assembled) and I'm worried about the masking panels now. Maybe I should not use them. Have you tried watching a movie without the panels? Are the unmasked sections extremely distracting?
Yeah, it's pretty distracting. Once you are used to pitch black borders, the black-grey bars do get annoying, and it does wash out the picture quality quite a bit. It is not as bad when they are side bars though. I noticed it at the IMAX theater when I saw TDKR too, and at home during interstellar at the beginning. Mostly during dark scenes it stands out.
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post #2722 of 2757 Old 05-08-2015, 03:23 PM
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Yeah, it's pretty distracting. Once you are used to pitch black borders, the black-grey bars do get annoying, and it does wash out the picture quality quite a bit. It is not as bad when they are side bars though. I noticed it at the IMAX theater when I saw TDKR too, and at home during interstellar at the beginning. Mostly during dark scenes it stands out.
Uh oh...hmmm...what causes the screen to wrinkle? is it the act of aligning the Two halves? I thought the magnets would automatically latch on without having to position them much. Would fu1l-width masking panels work better? I'll be trying them in a couple weeks, but just want to know what I should be prepared for.

how is your booster turning out? Did you end up fastening the booster to the riser?
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post #2723 of 2757 Old 05-08-2015, 03:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Uh oh...hmmm...what causes the screen to wrinkle? is it the act of aligning the Two halves? I thought the magnets would automatically latch on without having to position them much. Would fu1l-width masking panels work better? I'll be trying them in a couple weeks, but just want to know what I should be prepared for.

how is your booster turning out? Did you end up fastening the booster to the riser?
First, you can't really do full width masking, how would you take it off, it would be way too big for normal storage anywhere. Normally yes it is right where the pieces join, mostly on the bottom. It could be that the screen is slightly non-squared because the pieces fit a bit tight.... but they are on thin aluminum frames so the corners can push against the screen material if it isn't sitting quite right. Most of the time it is fine but I've seen it happen a few times.

The booster is great. I never did fasten it to the riser, in fact I only ever had planned to fasten the chairs to the booster but I haven't done that either. It is mostly a problem if I have kids in the room and they try to lean forward and push the leg rest down on the electric recliners. Due to the weight shift, the chair wants to tip forward. I just need to constantly supervise is all. Otherwise mission was accomplished there as far as viewing angle goes. The biggest thing in the way is my big doberman who doesn't always lay down right away. Then he gets in the way of the front screen now that it is floor to ceiling.
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post #2724 of 2757 Old 05-08-2015, 05:59 PM
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woven fabric screens are prone to showing stretchmarks as a result of masking that might push a bit on the fabric. Often in isolated spots, normally it goes away just like wrinkles when the fabric is rolled up and shipped to you. The only solution is a masking system that doesn't lean on the fabric, Those tend to be the mechanized masking systems $$$$$$$.

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post #2725 of 2757 Old 05-09-2015, 04:34 AM
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The only solution is a masking system that doesn't lean on the fabric, Those tend to be the mechanized masking systems $$$$$$$.
I don't know if it is because the market is so small, or what for the retail systems. Speaking from no experience, just reading some of the DIY threads over the years, the materials and the electronics involved don't seem to justify a price of $$$$$$$.
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post #2726 of 2757 Old 05-09-2015, 05:57 AM - Thread Starter
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I don't know if it is because the market is so small, or what for the retail systems. Speaking from no experience, just reading some of the DIY threads over the years, the materials and the electronics involved don't seem to justify a price of $$$$$$$.
I think it is a combination of a small market plus it is work that most screen companies just don't want to do. There are a lot of motors and moving parts and it has to all be custom per screen. Most screen companies want to just deal with extrusions and fabric materials. The bigger companies do offer it, but yeah, it is way too expensive.

MrMister did one themselves and it turned out really well, but I believe the whole thing is that you have to do a DIY frame and build it around that. I read a lot about it when they were building it and it did seem like a lot of work to get it right. I also don't think it would work with a curved screen at all (For Brolic) As much as I do compain about masking, we are talking about something that takes 30 seconds of time when a movie starts. It isn't sexy doing it yourself or having the panels laying around when you aren't using them to be sure, but is that small amount of work worth $5-10k that companies charge for that? No way. If it was something more like $1000 I think a lot more people would buy it.

I'd seriously consider building a DIY one over my current screen if someone local like BIG wanted to help tackle the project with me. Unfortunately, due to my super large format screen now, there is no place on the top and bottom for the masking system to go except into the stage and soffit itself, so I have to live with it in this theater I think unless I wanted to shrink the screen size.

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post #2727 of 2757 Old 05-09-2015, 07:44 AM
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Sounds like a badass DIY project. I'd like to tackle one at some point but after I start with a simple fixed screen and my theater and home are otherwise semi completed. That's a long way off...
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post #2728 of 2757 Old 05-10-2015, 07:24 PM
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First, you can't really do full width masking, how would you take it off, it would be way too big for normal storage anywhere. Normally yes it is right where the pieces join, mostly on the bottom. It could be that the screen is slightly non-squared because the pieces fit a bit tight.... but they are on thin aluminum frames so the corners can push against the screen material if it isn't sitting quite right. Most of the time it is fine but I've seen it happen a few times.

The booster is great. I never did fasten it to the riser, in fact I only ever had planned to fasten the chairs to the booster but I haven't done that either. It is mostly a problem if I have kids in the room and they try to lean forward and push the leg rest down on the electric recliners. Due to the weight shift, the chair wants to tip forward. I just need to constantly supervise is all. Otherwise mission was accomplished there as far as viewing angle goes. The biggest thing in the way is my big doberman who doesn't always lay down right away. Then he gets in the way of the front screen now that it is floor to ceiling.
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woven fabric screens are prone to showing stretchmarks as a result of masking that might push a bit on the fabric. Often in isolated spots, normally it goes away just like wrinkles when the fabric is rolled up and shipped to you. The only solution is a masking system that doesn't lean on the fabric, Those tend to be the mechanized masking systems $$$$$$$.
I discussed a motorized masking system pretty extensively with SeymourAV--I was even willing to switch from curved to flat, but I couldn't swing it. The only motorized masking system I'd be willing for fork over the $$ for was the Carada Masquerade, but they don't make a 16:9 masking system at 12' wide (they do make a 12' wide 2:35 motorized mask). Motorized masking was the only thing that I was willing to give up the curved configuration for, but it just wasn't feasible.
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post #2729 of 2757 Old 05-11-2015, 06:06 AM - Thread Starter
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I discussed a motorized masking system pretty extensively with SeymourAV--I was even willing to switch from curved to flat, but I couldn't swing it. The only motorized masking system I'd be willing for fork over the $$ for was the Carada Masquerade, but they don't make a 16:9 masking system at 12' wide (they do make a 12' wide 2:35 motorized mask). Motorized masking was the only thing that I was willing to give up the curved configuration for, but it just wasn't feasible.
Yep, this was pretty much what I discovered too. Though the one thing is that if you do have a scope screen, vertical only masking isn't difficult to do. You can even just do it with curtains if necessary. It is when you get into 4-way masking or horizontal masking that it becomes complex. On a curved screen, I haven't even seen automated vertical masking.
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post #2730 of 2757 Old 05-18-2015, 05:43 AM
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Yep, this was pretty much what I discovered too. Though the one thing is that if you do have a scope screen, vertical only masking isn't difficult to do. You can even just do it with curtains if necessary. It is when you get into 4-way masking or horizontal masking that it becomes complex. On a curved screen, I haven't even seen automated vertical masking.
Damelon-- Have been following your build and the recent changes for a while -- very impressive.

Your recent screen size upgrade got me thinking if I could do something similar. But I have a CIH curved scope screen setup with manual masking. I built black velvet covered panels that I use to mask the right and left sides when viewing 16:9 material. The panels fit over the top of the sides of the screen using cabinet magnets that are screwed into a soffit above and soffit below the screen, so they never touch the screen material itself.

So now I am thinking about whether I could use a similar approach if I switch to a CIW setup like you did, using a flat screen instead of a curved one. I am pretty sure I could make a couple of bottom panels for horizontal masking that would just sit on the bottom soffit using magnets, similar to the approach I already use for the vertical masking. Then I would need a solution for the top, perhaps hinges that would allow two panels to swing down from the top soffit when in use to view 2.35:1 material, and something to fasten them horizontally to the soffit unobtrusively when viewing 16:9 material. Or I suppose another approach for the top might be a short, black screen that lowers down from the soffit for masking.

Thank you for the inspiration.
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