New House, because I love this stuff. - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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post #541 of 606 Old 03-12-2014, 08:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrittonYoder View Post



Weeks of work ahead to get the rack back together.

Ugh, I don't envy you there. That looks painful. Do you think at least it will be a little easier this time around?

-




Is it solipsistic in here, or is it just me?
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post #542 of 606 Old 03-12-2014, 10:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Yes I do think it will be easier. I have some really good ideas for rack wire management. I am going to try to take pictures along the way. I am also installing a network rack on the wall behind the racks to avoid bringing all the house connections into the rack.

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post #543 of 606 Old 03-12-2014, 11:08 AM - Thread Starter
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This time I am going to do patch panels for almost everything. I found this great idea for speaker wire patch panels here on avs.

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post #544 of 606 Old 03-12-2014, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrittonYoder View Post



This time I am going to do patch panels for almost everything. I found this great idea for speaker wire patch panels here on avs.

I don't get this approach, especially when you have a sophisticated multi-zone system. It's an understandable approach for a multi-room system, but I don't see the utility with a zoned system. Am I missing something?
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post #545 of 606 Old 03-12-2014, 03:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Patch Panels....

For me it is all about keeping the rack clean. I have more than 100 home runs to the rack from around the house. The first rack build I completed had nearly all wires terminated into the components even if they weren't used at the time. This resulted in WAY too many wires in the rack. So for me the question becomes how do I have all the wires in the rack ready to go without bringing them all the way into the rack and I think the answer is patch panels. One of the reason I am having to re-work the entire rack is the number of equipment changes since the original build. To make the wire management look nice, I have to disconnect the wires, pull them back under, and re-run them into the new component (which has different spacing than the original). With patch panels, I can just change the patch cord.

A few other thoughts on my approach to clean wire management this time around:
  • Use of horizontal rack mountable wire duct between components with more than just a few connections.
  • Run 22 data runs from the rest of the home into a separate and distinct wall mount data rack to reduce number of wires in rack.
  • Build raised floor with removable floor panels to allow for organized bundles.
  • I have about 30 cat-6 runs from around the house to be used as relays or triggers in automation. These will be terminated into 3-layer din blocks and very small 3-conductor wire will be run to sensing equipment in the rack.
  • More space between components and avoid back mounting at the same height as front mounted equipment. It is too hard to reach the back of the front mounted equipment if you do this. This also allows for better cooling. I never thought the cooling was an issue in my rack, but I am beginning to wonder if i was wrong. This time I will have forced cooling.
  • Power Supplies - I HATE POWER SUPPLIES - There are probably 20 - 30 different external power supplies in the rack. I am considering building a custom 3-voltage power supply enclosed in a rack mount with multiple isolated taps.
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post #546 of 606 Old 03-12-2014, 04:40 PM
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Believe me, I know all about tons of wires coming into the rack. When I had my component video matrix distribution set up with all of the source components and the whole-house audio system, I probably had close to 300 wires homerun into the rack when you include automation, network, triggers, etc. Throw in all the interconnect wires and the whole thing was packed. Here's a couple of pics when I was in the middle of wiring the rack:

Three dual-tuner cable DVRs and Lexicon 7-channel amplifier:


One of three Niles SI-1230 multi-zone amplifiers:


Perhaps my question above wasn't clear. With as many in-wall and in-ceiling speakers as you have, I'm surprised that the patch panel for the speaker wires is the direction you are taking. I get it for networking, phone and the other stuff....but with consolidating the speakers to a patch panel, doesn't this confine your system to being multi-room and not multi-zone? In other words, the benefit of having a speaker patch panel outside the rack puts a pretty big limitation on the distributed audio system, doesn't it? To say it another way, with the patch panel, if you put your system into "Party" mode where only selected speakers are on, won't ALL of your speakers connected to this patch panel be on and not just the ones you want? Am I missing a piece of equipment that you have which I am not seeing, like a Control4 audio matrix switch?
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post #547 of 606 Old 03-12-2014, 05:04 PM - Thread Starter
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No its just a connection point. I would never sacrifice the functionality of independent zones. The din rail that the modules mount on is just that, a mount. From there it is just a mechanical wire to wire independent connection. When I started the project 2 years ago, I would have called such a practice sacrilege (adding what is essentially a splice), but serviceability has become more important to me than the SQ difference that probably is not even measurable.



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post #548 of 606 Old 03-12-2014, 05:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Great job wire managing by the way. I really like the wire pants and the heat shrink. Its funny, unless you have done this you would never begin to understand how much everything adds up to be. Heat shrink, wire pants, etc.

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post #549 of 606 Old 03-13-2014, 07:25 AM
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I need to get me some wire pants. My pigtails are pretty obscene, being pant-less and all frown.gif
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post #550 of 606 Old 03-13-2014, 06:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrittonYoder View Post

No its just a connection point. I would never sacrifice the functionality of independent zones. The din rail that the modules mount on is just that, a mount. From there it is just a mechanical wire to wire independent connection. When I started the project 2 years ago, I would have called such a practice sacrilege (adding what is essentially a splice), but serviceability has become more important to me than the SQ difference that probably is not even measurable.



Makes sense. Without knowing the internal connections, I was assuming it was acting like a bus bar to delivery power to all the zones. However, with your goal of reducing wires in the rack, wouldn't you have the same number of wires running from the amplifiers in the rack to this patch panel outside the rack as you would if the homerun lines went directly to the amplifiers?

I'll see if I can dig up any more pictures of the rack wiring at some point. You should've seen the the Extron Crosspoint fully loaded. RGB component for 10 source inputs and 8 source outputs plus analog follow and control, power wire.....that's almost 74 wires going to this single component by itself!!!
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post #551 of 606 Old 03-14-2014, 06:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Picked up the horizontal wire management channels today and a few other things to finish the rack.

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post #552 of 606 Old 03-14-2014, 06:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Room to room duct sleeve for cooling fans.

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post #553 of 606 Old 03-14-2014, 06:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Cool components exhaust fans.

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post #554 of 606 Old 03-14-2014, 06:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Went to snapav today. Pretty cool place. Their warehouse is massive. If you don't know snapav, familiarize yourself.

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post #555 of 606 Old 03-14-2014, 06:55 PM - Thread Starter
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One more plug. Not only does snap av have amazing products at very low prices, but their service is incredible. It seems like a very well run company that is focused not only on its customers but also on its people which is just as important.

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post #556 of 606 Old 03-19-2014, 05:46 AM - Thread Starter
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I've been working on getting everything working again and I thought I would post some wire porn.

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post #557 of 606 Old 03-19-2014, 05:47 AM - Thread Starter
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post #558 of 606 Old 03-19-2014, 05:48 AM - Thread Starter
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post #559 of 606 Old 03-19-2014, 05:48 AM - Thread Starter
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post #560 of 606 Old 03-19-2014, 05:49 AM - Thread Starter
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The last one could be a little neater, but it's still a work in progress.

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post #561 of 606 Old 03-19-2014, 05:49 AM - Thread Starter
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post #562 of 606 Old 03-19-2014, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrittonYoder View Post



This time I am going to do patch panels for almost everything. I found this great idea for speaker wire patch panels here on avs.

Who makes the DIN-rail mounted termination blocks you used for your speaker interconnects?
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post #563 of 606 Old 03-25-2014, 02:48 PM - Thread Starter
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I used these ones, but I think that picture is a different brand with wider blocks. I will post the completed pictures by the end of the weekend.

http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Terminal_Blocks/Konnect-It_DIN-Rail_Terminal_Blocks

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post #564 of 606 Old 03-25-2014, 07:39 PM
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Very interesting development regarding wiring with your version 2.0. Are you running everything through patch panels? I'm particularly interested in Cat6 for distributed video, as forever we've been told that additional terminations are a big no-no, regardless of the transmitting technology the balun uses.

I've had to replace some components in my rack and it sure would be nice to be able to use a patch panel for all of those connections.
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post #565 of 606 Old 03-25-2014, 08:33 PM
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Adding terminations just isn't a good idea. Just takes one bad oneand you're having to troubleshoot why things aren't working. One bad crimp or keystone and boom, nothing works. Not to say I haven't done it in certain situations for a customer, but I was upfront and told them exactly what I was doing. It was a job already prewired so I had to patch the cable. Luckily I double checked everything and it's working just fine.

Ryan Siu
Founder, Owner

The Modern Theatre LLC

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post #566 of 606 Old 03-25-2014, 08:50 PM - Thread Starter
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I have been testing different connections for the baluns. I haven't run into an issue yet. I think HDBaseT solves a lot of issues. My recommendation: Try a patch panel, but don't cut your wires short just just in case. Wrap them up.

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post #567 of 606 Old 03-30-2014, 03:42 PM
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Thanks for the feedback, I'm going to give it a try but leave the service loops there just in case.
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post #568 of 606 Old 04-02-2014, 09:32 PM - Thread Starter
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More progress.....

Not a great picture, but I got the platform substantially complete. Still working away on this.

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post #569 of 606 Old 04-02-2014, 09:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Also more progress on the patio. It is also substantially complete. Just need to clean up a few details and I can finally call it complete.
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post #570 of 606 Old 04-02-2014, 09:36 PM - Thread Starter
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